(Topic ID: 60579)

a "magic city" followed me home today... :)

By ccotenj

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

it was on my wishlist, so i brought home a "magic city" today... my first williams... stashyboy twisted my arm just hard enough to buy it... i love the artwork on this machine...

bg looks pretty nice... pf has a flipper gouge, left side... a bit of planking, not bad at all though... inserts are slightly cupped... very little apparent pf wear... inside of machine is FILTHY... all the stepper motors are gunked... various coil sleeves are broken... and so on...

this ought to be interesting... thanks to you guys, i've had a crash course in gottlieb over the last 6 months... hopefully you will school me in the ways of williams as well...

#2 10 years ago

some pics...

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#4 10 years ago

a few more...

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#6 10 years ago

and a couple more...

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#7 10 years ago

interesting how the belly board is laid out exactly the opposite from a gottlieb... where did all that REALLY fine dust come from?

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#10 10 years ago
Quoted from mdolshan:

Great game! We love ours. Congrats on the pickup.

Quoted from vid1900:

Looks in great shape, congrats.
I always loved the giant cock and balls rising up to inseminate the city.

thanks to both...

LOL vid... i never even caught that, but maybe that's the subliminal message that makes me like the art so much....

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Great art and I like that low positioned pop bumper. Cool game, congrats.
Alex

thanks, yea, i just know that pop bumper is going to drive my buddy absolutely nuts when it power drains the ball...

what i really like about the art on this game (other than the subliminal message vid pointed out) is that not only is it exceptionally attractive, but it captures the early 60's really well with the big showy art, as well as with all the little details...

Quoted from LTG:

Damn that looks in really great shape.
Congratulations on a great pin !
LTG : )

thanks lloyd... yea, i'm pleased with the condition, for sure...

although you haven't seen the cabinet yet...

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

The dust is mostly carbon/steel filings from the coils firing and ball hitting metal parts. Someone did an analysis of that stuff one time.......can't remember who, but makes total sense. Any pics of the cabinet artwork? Glad you are psyched!

ah, yea, that makes total sense... it's REALLY fine, so that would "fit" with that conclusion... it's like a sixteenth of an inch thick all over everything... almost looks like no one ever actually opened up the game...

cabinet pics coming up... and yes, i'm psyched, although once i start digging into it, you may regret the powers of your persuasion...

#14 10 years ago

some cabinet pics... interestingly enough, as stashy pointed out to me, it gives the impression of having been in a damp environment, but the bottom is rock solid, and theres no rust anywhere... well... other than the legs... the legs are downright ugly with a capital U G L Y...

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#15 10 years ago

and a few more...

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#16 10 years ago

and a few more...

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#19 10 years ago
Quoted from mdolshan:

That cabinet isn't so bad. Mine had thick brown latex paint and glitter stickers all over it when I brought it home!
I made stencils and repainted it. Not perfectly, but a big improvement.
The stencils were destroyed in the process, or I'd offer them to you...
M

gee, that sounds luscious... at least it wasn't "avocado"... one wonders sometimes just exactly what people are thinking when they do those repaints like that...

i may be talked into a repaint on this one when i gut it to clean out the inside... "cleaning" the outside it really isn't an option with all that paint missing, that old dry wood would suck up any moisture that came near it... which would only exacerbate the issue... one good thing, the cabinet only has a couple small gouges, so the prep work wouldn't be horribly bad...

thanks, i know they generally don't survive the process, but i do appreciate the thought...

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

was this the one listed in newark de.

nothing gets by ted... yea, that's the one... i offered 325 and he accepted... i think i got a fair enough deal...

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Are you going to do a restore and make it look brandy new?

sadly, my skills (or to be more correct, lack of skills) preclude that possibility...

but i'll do my best...

#29 10 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

Looks like a nice example, excellent game, I've had one for quite a few years, unfortunately been in storage for more of that than I would like
This thread might inspire me to get it out soon!!

well, dig it out and work through it along with me... i know i could use the support...

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from MrArt2u:

Great find! I have one too, purchased solely on the strength of the art, um, package (thanks Vid, for pointing that out) Rumor has it that Williams originally had a color wheel designed for the area behind the giant squirting fountain on the backglass put the bean counters nixxed it-too expensive. I plan on trying some color changing LEDs (GASP!) behind the fountain on ours. Should look cool!
I look forward to keeping up with your progress.
Cheers!
Art.

pretty amazing how the art can completely sell a game to so many people... i'd want this even if it played like a turd, just so i could look at it...

i'm going to do the color changing led's as well, my mentor on this project strongly suggested them... he also suggested adding lighting in a few other areas of the bg, which i will likely do as well once i haul the light board out...

progress will be reported... hopefully, not too much "lack of progress" will be reported as well, but i know that you guys will get me through anything i get stuck on...

#31 10 years ago

in my first post, i noted that this was my first williams... my experience thus far has been limited to gottlieb wedgeheads...

had my first "wtf" moment yesterday... i was staring at the lightboard, and thinking to myself "c'mon, there's gotta be a way to release this, short of unscrewing it, otherwise, it would royally suck to change bulbs"... saw the instruction card that said "slide levers forward..."... tried that, and nothing happened...

pm'd the mentor for the solution (hopefully he will not tire of me)... it NEVER occurred to me that you slide out the levers and then remove the backglass from the front to get at the light board... i completely misunderstood the directions...

the first, but highly unlikely the last, "damn, i should have been able to figure that out" moment...

#32 10 years ago
Quoted from Sharon:

I thought I had a game with awful legs, I was all set to replace them, too. But I took em off and did the naval jelly treatment...not a lot of improvement, so I cleaned that all off, and took a green scrubby with brake cleaner and scrubbed them....they are shiny and rust free now.

i'll try the brake cleaner, thanks for the suggestion there...

i tried many things on other sets of really ugly legs, but the time it took me to get them to a state that was still unacceptable led me to simply order new ones from steve... i'm VERY patient when it comes to fixing stuff, but when it comes to cleaning stuff, not so much...

#34 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Nice pick on the Magic City. A Bally in the future too?

thanks...

hey, one baby step at a time... although if a "bon voyage" or "rocket iii" happens to show up cheap, i'll dip my toe into the bally waters...

#35 10 years ago

the journey begins... time to get off my can and start making a parts list and take a few things apart... took the flippers off to start stripping the pf down to clean it...

i don't think i'll save these coil stops...

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#36 10 years ago

not much left of the sleeve in this guy... the plunger is also stuck...

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#37 10 years ago

i pulled the first assembly (every screw on coil stop mount and little ring mount on the other side of the coil beheaded itself)... went over to other one (sleeve is welded into the coil of that one), started to take it apart, and a little light bulb went on over my head...

what is wrong with this picture?

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#39 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Nut on the back side?

i discovered the nut on the back side of the screws holding the coil stop in after pondering why the first screw was so recalcitrant.. according to the exploded view in the parts catalog, those are supposed to be there... when i was studying that part of the catalog last night, apparently those 2 nuts didn't penetrate my brain... i suppose i shouldn't ask why they did that...

the screws sheared because the person who screwed them in last must have been a close relative of the incredible hulk...

so nope, although i learned something new there... side note on screws, i see that williams didn't have "slotted screw religion" like gottlieb... bonus points for williams there!

i was looking at it, and mentally said, "great, the same pita flipper return spring as on the gottliebs"... then the light bulb went on... that spring shouldn't be there... and the spring that should be the flipper return isn't there... popped up the parts catalog, the bakelite link should be rounded on the pawl end, these aren't...

unless i'm off in left field here, it sure looks like somewhere along the line this "inherited" some gottlieb parts... on close inspection, you can see how the bakelite link was cut down... and it's entirely possible they didn't cut them down quite enough, which could have contributed to how wasted the coil stops and metal sleeves were (that's just a wag there)...

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Remember until a decade ago, when internet retailers started, many operators/collectors had to make due with what ever was available locally. Not at all surprising, I've found stuff like that before. Good thing you have access to the original parts catalog huh?

yup, that's kinda what i figured... that's what whoever did it had available in their parts bin... so they made do with what they had... it worked... for awhile, anyway... what's left of the coil sleeves are never coming out of there though... add 2 flipper coils to the list...

yupper... that was a good tip from you there... it makes life so much easier when i have an exploded view to look at...

Quoted from o-din:

Steve Young is your friend (and I'm not talking about the football player).

yea, i hear that...

#43 10 years ago

ok, score reel lubrication question... i started on the score reels last night... took one apart*, and set aside the parts to clean today... not only are they grungy, but it appears as if someone used "3 in 1" oil (or a similar "machine oil") on them...

while perusing the various pieces of documentation, they suggest lubricating many places in the assembly... no biggie, i can handle that...

however, you guys have taught me to NOT lubricate nylon parts, and most of the areas the suggest lubricating are either "nylon on nylon" or "nylon on metal"...

so the question is: is this a case where the "don't lube rule" doesn't apply?

* side note: i hope i don't live to regret saying this, but these are SO much easier to deal with than a decagon reel...

#45 10 years ago

@pin-it...

thanks! what's a good source for the superlube aerosol? i only have a tube...

and i like the idea of the cardboard workbench...

4 sets of score reels would REALLY try my patience... i think i'll stick to single players...

#46 10 years ago

one down, 3 to go... i cheated and used the lube in the tube VERY lightly...

first score reel cleaned up good... got the last dirt off it that shows in the pics... parts too...

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#49 10 years ago

@pin-it... cool, thanks... a little saturday morning shopping while having coffee...

@bert... see what happens when you go out of town? stashyboy posted a link to this one in the "em's on ebay" thread... after a few pm's with him to make sure i wasn't gonna regret buying it, i popped the ebay guy an offer and he took it... it was down in newark, right next to the university of delaware campus, so only about an hour away...

my eyes are still peeled for "projects" for us though... something will pop up to make up for that deal we recently missed out on...

seller had bought it because he wanted a pin... he did enough research to know what to use on the pf (he had made an effort to clean it with novus), and he put new rubbers on it, but gave up when he couldn't get it to run (score motor runs forever)... judging from the way the inside looks, he didn't get very far, as i found no fingerprints in the thick layer of grime that is covering everything in there... i figure i'll just go through it and take apart/clean everything, and hopefully whatever the problems are will go away as a function of cleaning and fixing obvious issues...

side note 1: i thought the "jacks open" that i finally finished was dirty inside when i got it, but this one makes that one look clean... tying together an earlier post about the dust, stashy's response about it being fine metal/carbon dust, and that i am finding so many metal coil sleeves that are shot, i'm "guessing" that the metal sleeves contributed mightily to the grunge... most of it just dusts right off, but in places that were "lubed" with machine oil (like the score reels were) it stuck... caught a bit of a break there though, because while the entire "guts" of the score reel mechs were covered with a pretty thick layer of "gunk" (including the mounts) from where the oil splashed when the reels spun, the faces of the reels only got some oil on them in a couple places, so they cleaned up well without having to take a chance of rubbing off the numbers...

side note 2: why do people want to move these things without taking off the legs and head? when i was picking it up, i started to take the legs off, he said "why are you doing that? i just moved it in one piece."...

#52 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

You have to watch for me. Good stuff pops up and is gone before I see it.
I can't watch much from work and Pinside is actually blocked.
If you see something call my cell.
Thanks.

wow, pinside blocked... that's a pretty draconian internet usage policy...

will do...

#53 10 years ago

one clean set of score reels... hooray beer!!!

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#54 10 years ago

got the replay unit out, taken apart and mostly cleaned... i hope i can put it bck together...

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#57 10 years ago

@tracelifter...

thanks for chiming in, "success stories" build my confidence... i don't mind admitting that i'm still a bit apprehensive about my ability to bring something back from the dead; this is only my 2nd "project" machine...

yea, i lucked out with the pf and plastics, for sure... the plastics are warped, but unbroken... i have several others that need to be flattened too, and today is supposed to be warm and sunny, so i'm planning on doing the "flatten them inbetween pf glass in the sun" trick today... i'm hoping that works out...

of course, i will then have to try to not lose them...

#58 10 years ago

re: earlier comments about "damp location"...

my "guess" is that this lived for quite awhile in an arcade on a boardwalk somewhere... i'm guessing this because when i pulled various jones plugs, they have a considerable build up of that "white crap" that forms around unprotected electrical connections when in the presence of salt...

a guess anyway... not that it really matters...

#61 10 years ago

@tracelifter....

cool, thanks for the heads up on the plastics... i didn't get around to flattening them yesterday, i got distracted by how nice the day was...

@bert... what temp do you bake them at? i've seen that suggested, but haven't been brave enough to try it...

#64 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

I've used that technique, though the sun bake is much safer. I keep the oven temp about 200 which is the minimum my low tech oven will do. Seems about right though. Really need to keep a close watch on them as an extra minute can ruin them. I'd say start with like 5 minutes, but checking them often. Very flat surface, I don't use wax paper, would be concerned about it sticking to the plastics, though haven't tried it. Pressing is important too, or they will just curl up if just removed from heat without that part.

since mother nature appears to be cooperating this week, i'll let mother nature do the job...

#67 10 years ago

cool... i've got some broken plastics from another machine, i may experiment on those...

#68 10 years ago

well, this came out just a tad cleaner... stepper gear from replay unit, before and after...

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#69 10 years ago

there is only one "problem" with ordering from pbr... you place a big long order, but you only ever get a tiny box... a BIG box would be much more gratifying...

props as usual though... i emailed the order to jimmy yesterday afternoon, and the box showed up on my front door step today... hard to beat that...

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#70 10 years ago

one stepper done... the label did not survive... anyone have scans of those? i didn't see them on peter's site, but i may have missed them...

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#71 10 years ago

assuming i save all the original screws, and put them where i won't lose them...

would i be considered too much of a heathen if i used gottlieb post screws and the little rubber thingies* to hold the plastics in place?

it would make changing bulbs and rubbers MUCH easier... and if a future owner wants to put it back to original, they easily can...

* i use the little rubber thingies instead of the acorn nuts on my gottlieb games... easier to remove, and theoretically should be kinder to the plastics...

#73 10 years ago

^^^

yea, i figure the rubber thingies have got to be better for the plastics than metal...

#74 10 years ago

pulled the bg off today... that really is pretty nifty the way williams did that...

the bulbs were a BITCH to get out... i think some of them had been in there since day one, they are seriously cooked and were seemingly corroded in place... i ended up using needle noses cushioned by a shooter rod tip, and was able to eventually break them free and get them out...

other than 2 47's, the rest were all 44's and 455's... i went through them (i've been saving "old" 44's that are "good" for aprons, etc.)... not one worth saving, they were all blackened bad...

should i try to paint the front of the lightboard when i remove it?

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#76 10 years ago

got the pf mostly stripped... still have to deal with one flipper bushing that has a cammed out screw...

i can see why the flipper drag happened now, the bushing is worn down on the side closest to the pf...

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#78 10 years ago

here's a pic of the offender... it's the one with the washer on it that the flipper return screw is anchored to...

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#80 10 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Ah yes wood screws into the PF cut a slot in it and remove it with a flat blade screwdriver.

yup, that's what i'm gonna try first... also, since i'm not saving the bushing, i can carve some of it out so i can get on it with a pair of vice grips...

it'll come out one way or another... i just didn't feel like dealing with it today...

#81 10 years ago

gutted...

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#82 10 years ago

i'd hazard a guess this wasn't helping with the "not working" condition...

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#87 10 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Nice. Lock relay? Z28-1150?

bingo... yup, that's the one... i started cleaning the belly board (what is the "real" name for that?) and when i unscrewed the lock relay from the board, that's what i found...

i don't think i'm going to be able to salvage that one... oh well, 1 more coil to add to the list...

after doing a little reading last night (and assuming i'm understanding correctly), i see that i could eliminate the coil entirely if i wanted to by permanently setting the lock relay into an "on" state... dunno whether i should do this or not*...

* side note... after getting frustrated with a buzzing coin lockout coil on one of my gottliebs, i removed the entire coin lockout mechanism... so i'm not philosophically opposed to removing things that are no longer needed...

#88 10 years ago
Quoted from JHawk1970:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but a quick question and I could use help.
Local guy has a shopped Magic City with perfect backglass and very nice playfield for $450. Unfortunately the cabinet has been painted. Is $450 a reasonable price?
TIA,
JHawk

hijack away... the more the merrier...

Quoted from stashyboy:

I think that's a decent price if the back glass is good to excellent, and minimal play field wear. I always need either a very good repaint, or original cabinet. Pretty fun game play for this era. Williams had a pretty good year for single players with Apollo/Blast Off, and Touch Down/Kickoff as well. All with the new style coin door and automatic ball lifter!

Quoted from tracelifter:

I sold mine for $900.00

i guess i did get a decent deal... especially if you don't count the 250 or so dollars worth of parts it needs and the work involved...

what year did williams go to the automatic ball lifter? i always kinda liked the old manual mechanisms... if a ball drained unfairly, you could punish the machine a bit by really hammering the next ball in...

#90 10 years ago

^^^

step down cabinet? is that the one that looks like a little shelf is on the front?

continued cleaning the belly board today...

question 1: is there a reason they glued the iron to the board? or is that just stuff that leached out of the laminate? i had to pry it pretty hard to get it to release from the board...

question 2: is it worth trying to sand the board "clean"? it would be easy enough to try, i suppose... it would also be easy enough to just cut a new piece of plywood to size and replace it as well... i got the "dust" off of it, but it is still rather grimy... i tried using a real soft gum eraser on it and got nowhere (although it did clean up all the labels pretty well)...

btw, if anyone wants the original screws (i know some are picky about these things) i'll save them and send them to you... every screw i take out gets replaced with a new steel one... the majority of the existing ones are cammed to a certain degree, and i am taking no chances on camming them to a "pita degree"... it's a habit i got into a long time ago with other things, it's cheap enough to use newies...

#91 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

@pin-it...
thanks! what's a good source for the superlube aerosol? i only have a tube...

update on this... my local ace hardware stocks it, even though the website said they didn't (i found it by accident when i went to buy a bottle of liquid wrench)... they also had the tube...

#94 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

The mechanical panel or mech panel as some call it.

thanks... i knew there had to be an "official name" for it...

Quoted from Pin-it:

Cool, and if you press the button w/a light touch it applies just the right amount. (Wrap a rag around what you are lubricating just in case.

i'm still working on that "light touch" part... ah, good tip on the rag, i got it everywhere the first couple times i shot it... at least i had the foresight to do it outside...

#95 10 years ago

yup, it was worth sanding the mech panel... i am VERY tempted to clear it...

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#97 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Night and day difference.

yea, i was pretty surprised at how well it came out... the only part that didn't come completely clean was where the iron mounts, i didn't want to sand all the way through the top layer of the plywood...

#100 10 years ago

Isn't it fun getting all the one piece spaghetti disaster off the panel?
My Royal Flush playfield is stripped clean waiting for me to paint and clear it ,except I put the mechanical attachment screws back in each respective place as not to confuse myself at a later date.
Not sure how you removed your mechanical parts but after I started pulling it up slowly in a small heap on the back of the playfield, I had a lightbulb moment and actually used a thick piece of cardboard not unlike a stretcher and slowly lifted and transferred it in the same orientation as it once was. That and pictures and video just in case too.

yea, it was... there were a few screws i missed the first time around it which led to some head scratching...

actually, that's exactly what i did, because i did not trust myself to position everything right, even with pics (i gotta get me a cheapo video camera, that's a good idea)... i unscrewed everything, and after finding the screws i missed initially, i slid the whole kit and kaboodle onto a piece of fiberboard i had lying around... that way i can't screw it up (remind me i said that when i screw it up... )...

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i figure i'll take apart and clean everything before moving it back into place... i made it through the "big" relays on one side, took a look at the couple little ones, and decided i needed a beer before is tackled those...

#101 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Wal-Mart spray bombs satin clear if they still carry it,about a $1.20 a can.

cool... i'll stop by there and see if they still have it...

#102 10 years ago

before i take the score motor apart...

are the cams keyed? or do i need to mark the positions? i know i have to keep track of what order they are in, just not sure if i need to track position as well...

#105 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

Wow that's a beautiful game in great shape! Thanks for the pics!

thanks steve... i'm hoping i don't screw it up too bad...

btw, your animations are very helpful; i'm glad you post them...

#106 10 years ago

@pin-it....

you mean like i did with the spider thingie on one of the stepper motors?

i'm not sure i'm brave enough yet to strip the back of the pf... getting all that bare wire back where it is supposed to be (not to mention soldered back to everything) is a bit daunting...

i'm pretty sure i trust myself to fix the inserts, and semi-sure i trust myself to clear it... painting is beyond my capabilities... i have a real hard time matching colors (color blind)...

#108 10 years ago

i gotcha... now just don't lose the tracings...

yea, if you've got everything off, you might as well paint it... it would be wicked cool to paint a
royal flush logo on it too... in addition to being color blind, i am beyond worthless with a spray gun... that is why i left the jacks open the way it is and just waxed it really heavily on the worn parts... i can always farm that out someday...

time i've got right now... once november rolls around though, i'll be lucky to find time to even play them until may, let alone actually work on them...

#110 10 years ago

thanks pinster...

got the score motor taken apart... the motor did NOT want to release from the shaft, i had to exert quite a bit of force to get it off... i think i will wait until tomorrow to clean this and reassemble it...

what should i use to lubricate the motor gears? the "usual" stuff? any reason i should not put the motor itself through the ultrasonic cleaner? it is DRIPPING with oil...

edit: i'm planning leaving the cams and the followers dry, as they are nylon on nylon...

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#112 10 years ago

thanks alex... i honestly didn't mean to go this far, but i kinda started going down the rabbit hole and then couldn't stop...

i'm blessed (cursed?) with the "i gotta find out if i can do this" gene... fortunately, i'm lucky enough to have a certain amount of mechanical aptitude, and i figure you guys will be able to pull me out of any jam that i get myself into...

plus i like to take stuff apart and see how it works...

chris

#116 10 years ago

I'm sure you took plenty of pics and made notes of where each cam disk goes......

lol, yea, every step of the way... of course, it remains to be seen whether or not i can interpret my pics and notes... otherwise, i'm gonna become an expert at taking it apart/putting it back together...

the cams themselves (other than the one multi-toothed one on the end) alternate back and forth between a "53" and a "54" cam (last 2 digits of the pn stamped on them)... the notches on two cams are offset 90 degrees from each other (first pic)... when they mount on the shaft, they are mounted so that the first cam has a notch top dead center when the alignment pin for the motor is pointed straight up (and since the score motor rotates 180 degrees, there is no "up or down" for the cam, either way will do)... each subsequent cam has it's notch offset from the previous one when mounted like in second pic... assuming* i get the first cam positioned correctly, the subsequent ones should just naturally fall into place...

* never safe to do!

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#117 10 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Was I the only one that thought this thread was going to be about buying a WOZ?
Nice work, that's going to be really nice when you are done!

heh... good one!

thanks, i'm hoping so...

Quoted from Pin-it:

Motor teardown and lubrication guidelines here >http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor
Nice teardown so far!

thanks mate... i shoulda known clay would have it there...

getting there... that thing was FOUL when i took it apart... it's as torn down as it is going to get, i'm not going to attempt to split the motor... something tells me that would be an exercise in frustration...

i'm hoping to get it back together later today, so if you hear streams of cursing coming from east of you, you'll know where they are coming from...

#119 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

^^ Motto to live by>> If its not broken dont fix it. Unless you want to keep Steve (Pbr) busy rotating his stock and thin out your wallet too.

yea i hear you there... since i already have made steve happy enough recently...

i'm just gonna clean it as well as i can and lube as required... should be ok... it spins freely now (as it should with all that oil in there)...

#121 10 years ago

thanks bert... i cleaned the casing/gear faces/etc. as good as i could with alcohol, and since the gears rotate freely, i think i'm good... but i'm gonna remember you said that... because i looked at it for quite awhile trying to figure out how to split it, and damned if i can figure it out... probably just as well i couldn't...

chris

edit: i'll keep my eyes open for a score motor... might be able to score one from someone parting out a machine...

#122 10 years ago

clean parts...

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#123 10 years ago

before and after...

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#124 10 years ago

i'm a bit concerned because it went together TOO easy... but i don't have any parts left over, so that's a good sign...

now to deal with these...

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#126 10 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

nice! Did you use an ultra sound or elbow grease or ????
--Jeff

thanks jeff...

i sprayed all the parts* with mean green and let them sit a few minutes, then rinsed them with water to get off the surface coat of grunge, then put them through the ultrasonic cleaner... rinsed and dried everything real good with a blow gun... i had anticipated i'd still have to polish them a bit when they came out of the cleaner, but was pleased to see that no elbow grease was required...

* other than the motor, that i cleaned with 91% alcohol and q-tips, being careful not to leave any "cotton bombs" behind in the gears...

chris

#127 10 years ago

anyone got scans of the little label thingies that are attached to various assemblies?

#130 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

https://picasaweb.google.com/113822175696968990275/MagicCitySold#5697158196119587602
I think that happened three times on this game! Chill manuever........
Wish I still had mine, but alas the offer was too good and it has gone across the pond to a gentleman from England.

man, you do incredible work...

#131 10 years ago

no pics yet, but cooking the plastics in the sun worked out real well... i put the glass on top of a moving blanket, and dragged the sandwich around the yard to keep it in the sun this afternoon... i just left them in between the glass to cool when the sun went down... all of them came out nice and flat... color me happy...

#132 10 years ago
Quoted from PapaJohn:

The pop bumper position is similar to my Spanish Eyes. I'm sure this game will make you laugh as you enjoy the ball action. I have all of my totally rebuilt pop bumpers points gap set to about .030 which will give you very fast pop bumper action. You will actually see the ball do a full circle around the lower pop then slide over to one of the flippers sometimes!! John

yea, it should be a lot of fun... that lower pop should make for some interesting reactions from players...

#133 10 years ago

btw, i like the "ground to nowhere"....

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#135 10 years ago

^^^

yup bert, that's what i'm gonna do... i hacked that old power cord out of there already... i'm hoping to do the surgery for the on/off switch this week when i drag the cabinet outside to sand the bottom... of course, it's gonna be 90 degrees, so that might not happen til next week...

yea, its a "left flipper turns it on" machine...

thanks for the offer of help...

chris

#136 10 years ago

as threatened, 1 cleared mech board...

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#137 10 years ago

these look like they are gonna clean up pretty good... the nickle one looked like the other two before i started...

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#139 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Looks like a new piece of wood now + the clear will resist future stains/dirt.
The plastic coin slot cleaned up real nice.
Looks good.

yea, it came out nice... and that's kinda what i figured, it should stay a bit cleaner now... may yet give it a finish sand and one more coat... i ended up using krylon satin clear, my local mom & pop hardware store had a clearance bin with a bunch of stuff in it and it was 2 bucks for the can...

coin slot took elbow grease, but wasn't too bad... taped off the back with painters tape and then cleaned it as well as i could with mean green... then polished with novus 3 followed by novus 2... i figured it was worth a shot, steve gets like $6.50 apiece for those...

thanks...

#141 10 years ago

@tracelifter...

cool! thanks for that tip... i will try that... sure sounds like a better method than what i tried, it took me an hour to get that far, and i made no progress on the deeper scratches...

hopefully i will not be posting pics of bloody fingers...

now to hunt down plexus... i'll swing by barb's (my local harley shop) later today and see if they have it...

#143 10 years ago

@tl... ah, cool... a minute? dang... i shoulda asked for advice on that before i started...

#144 10 years ago

adding to the list of "things that probably weren't helping out with the non-working condition"... this switch is off of the coin relay... the points would appear to be shot... this one connects with green and red wires... edit: my wife is telling me the one i think is "green" is "purple", but i see no purple wires on the schematic?

question: how do i tell whether these were "small" or "large" contacts? i am guessing that they were large, based on the fact that the switch in the lock relay that gets the green and red wire having large contacts...

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#145 10 years ago

i would imagine that this sentiment has been expressed by many before me, but these little guys are a pita... however, they are now cleaned/adjusted and hopefully will never have to come apart again... although considering how worn some of the contact points are, that hope may be in vain...

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#147 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Depends on the application,cheap enough to get both styles >> http://www.pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#common

okd, good enough... i can handle that...

gotta dig through the box of "spare parts" i bought off of fleabay, maybe there is s similar switch on something in there...

#149 10 years ago

thanks bert... i'll give you a holler tomorrow morning...

chris

#150 10 years ago

small update...

i found the "purple" wire on the schematic... silly me, i thought all the wire colors used would be listed in the "color chart" on the schematic... but no...

#151 10 years ago

the score motor has its switches back on... getting ready to reattach everything to the mech board and start the underside of the pf...

memo to self: do NOT attempt to polish switch stacks with a dremel... image.jpgimage.jpg

#152 10 years ago

dupe... hopefully the server woes will be fixed soon...

#154 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-ag-style-relay-rebuild
Have you seen this Chris? Watch the video in the op's opening post. At about ten minutes in, you will see...

y'know, now that you remind me of it, i had, and had completely forgotten about it... thanks! i did not use the correct attachment, and i had to do some serious adjustments to the switches on the one stack i tried it on after i mangled them...

his cleaning job on all the various parts makes mine look pretty poor...

i may take them off again and give it a shot... i'm mucking around with the royal guard trying to fix some hacks on it this morning*, and i am getting mightily frustrated with it, so cleaning some switches might be therapeutic... although now that they are all back on, i'm not real excited about taking them off again...

* that machine is getting ready to be thrown out the window... i should have just left well enough alone on that, as everything "worked" when i got it... but i had a mystery issue (push start button, get awarded 500 points) and wanted to fix it, and the deeper i dig, the more issues i end up with... when (if?) i finish the magic city, i may just tear the whole damn thing apart and r&r it from scratch...

#156 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

I'll take the Royal Guard off your hands
Better than throwing it out the window.
And we wouldn't want Vhris to have a nervous breakdown.

if i didn't have so much into it, i'd tell ya to come get it right now...

thanks for the switches today...

#158 10 years ago

lol, nice try...

finally figured out the switch stack on the ball count unit issue (see other thread for problem solving on that)... only one more hack left to undo... i hope... that can wait a few days, i want to get back to work on this machine for awhile...

#159 10 years ago

reassembled mech board....

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#160 10 years ago

"modernized" lock relay for home use... i also removed the "kick off" switch and bounce switch... 2 less things to cause issues, and since no one will be either turning it off by kicking the bottom or picking up the machine and dropping it, not needed any longer...

yes, i saved the parts should someone want to put them back in...

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#164 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Nice and clean. Shiny, had to put sunglasses on. >

yup. about as clean as i could get it. good tip on the satin clear...

i would have liked to have gotten the wiring harness cleaner (i just rubbed it down with alcohol wipes), but that was a solder job too far... no way i was desoldering all those switches to give it a proper bath...

Quoted from Pafasa:

Chris, you suck!!! Now I have to do this to any EM I clean up or I will be dissatisfied! Great job. That looks awesome. I like the clear on the control board. Did I mention you suck?

you have only yourself to blame... without you guys, there is NO WAY i would have had the confidence to go as far as i did... i still have to adjust a few switches on the relays and solder the wires onto the switch that i replaced on the coin relay... but other than that, it's pretty much done...

now to flip the pf and tackle that...

#165 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Not sure if he got it?

i thought he said i had a lot of luck...

#167 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

He didn't get it. Somehow he thinks I am to blame. Maybe I suck??

you are the enabler, remember?

#169 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

I do remember! Thanks! Now go buy more pins!!

i'm tryin'...

i'd really like a "light up the 1 for the 1000 points score" game as the next project... hopefully i'll come across one sooner or later...

#171 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

I know of a Lucky Ace near me in storage. It is a "lite up the 1 for 100,000 game I think" 1974 Williams three flippers

yup, it is... i *think* (not sure) there are a few williams that did that... vs. the gottliebs that lit up "100,000" in the bg when you rolled it over (like on jacks open, where the queen's crown lights up 100,000)...

i'm thinking old school though...

#176 10 years ago

yea alex, you are reading my mind...

short digression on pinball scoring...

first we had woodrails, which scored in the millions...

then we went to 3 reel machines, and they were hard to rollover and get the "magic 1"...

then we went to 4 reels, scoring inflated somewaht, but was still rather low, and machines were really really hard to roll over (i'm thinking of my royal guard, and other machines of that era)... replays usually started in the 2000's...

4 reel scoring then inflated somewhat (4 square, for example), where you could roll it a bit more often, and replays started in the 5-6000 range...

the we went to the "dummy 0" machines (pro football) with 4 reels... scoring was basically the same as the 4 square era games, but you got the psychological satisfaction of "higher scores" (even though they were really the same), and replays started in the 50-60000 range... these machines scored a max of 99,999, with no love for the 100,000...

scoring then inflated again (jacks open), where you could roll the machine a lot easier, but replays often started in 110-120000 range... these games gave you the 100,000 love, either via a "light up 1" or "light up 100,000"...

i'm not familiar enough with the williams/bally games that had a reel for the 100,000's to comment on those... did those have 2 dummy zeros?

"new games" score in the zillions, but really, scoring isn't any different from the way it has always been... basically, scoring has always been 4 significant digits, with the extra zeros added on the end as a psychological factor... the "real differences" in how machines scored are the "inflations" noted...

and it makes sense... it's pointless to score "1 point" on a game that requires 120,000 to get a replay...

#178 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

OK, Now I really want this!

YES!!!

Quoted from AlexF:

Haven't you been thinking on that one for awhile. I always thought it looked like a neat game. Last Gottlieb Em with a gobble hole.
Alex

another piece of good trivia from you...

Quoted from AlexF:

Ooh, Ron Webb still has Sweethearts glass available. http://pinballglass.homestead.com

oooo is right. even better. i love me some repro bg's... sweethearts would be an ideal project, simply because of that (or another game that repros are available for)... although gobble holes have been known to cause me to abuse the machine in an unkind manner...

#180 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Funny you should mention pro football.
Gottlieb Pro Football Pinball $600
minneapolis.craigslist.org link

i like the "jackson on the pf glass mod"... mine doesn't have that mod...

#183 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Looks fun to me. I like the frustratingly fun looking flipper layout, ball eject from the trough and the football scoring. A friend of mine has one in storage that I should pursue. I asked him about it one day and I know he'd probably sell it to me.

yea, if you could get it, it's worth a shot... like briefly discussed in the other thread, it is a "take it or leave it" machine, i know some people don't like it at all... my bestie won't play it at all, he can't get over the shooting it from the trough, nor can he adjust to the double flippers... they are counterintuitive for most people... they see those double flippers and they want to "flip more", when the real key to them is learning to "flip less" and letting the ball bounce off the flippers to a "better spot" to flip...

it's always fun to watch swmbo dump it inbetween the flippers... that's a guaranteed tilt...

#187 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Ha, I was studying the pictures thinking there was an old Michael Jackson sticker on there or something. Then I saw it...

Quoted from Pafasa:

Sinbad! I'd have an EM version if I could find one.

me too... problem is finding them... they come up about as often as em joker poker's, which is basically never...

#188 10 years ago

pf pulled...

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#189 10 years ago

i just can't wait to clean this...

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#190 10 years ago

ah, another thing likely contributing to the "not working" condition...

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#191 10 years ago

oh my...

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#192 10 years ago

mo' bettah...

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#194 10 years ago

i gotta build me a rotisserie... that would be so much better than using sawhorses...

it's sitting on the siderails on little stick on felt thingies... i figure if i have a "boo boo"' i'd rather scratch the siderails than the pf... i haven't pulled the standup targets yet either, so i didn't really have the option anyway... those need to be desoldered from the common wire, so i figured that would be easier once i got the pf out of the machine...

#195 10 years ago

dadgummit, i dunno why that "ugly insert" pic came out so large... sorry... one of these days i'll master my iphone...

#197 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

No you won't. At least not in regards to pics uploading correctly. It is an issue on Pinside's side. HaHa that sounded funny.

aha! at least i know know that it isn't due to my own inadequacy...

#201 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

What's up.
I go away for a few days and miss lots going on here and miss out on a Bally. How local was that. It was deleted by the time I looked at it. You have to text me next time. I can usually get a truck pretty quick during the week. It's the weekend that are hard for me.

lol, i actually was able to get wheels... it didn't last long though... plus was a bit more than you told me you wer looking to spend...

#202 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

There are plenty of things in our lives we can attribute that to......no need to arbitrarily add to the list.

have you been talking to my wife?

#203 10 years ago

anyone know what size rubber grommets are on the mounts for the relay bank? these are completely dry rotted...

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#205 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Chris, check what is available at your local hardware store. Those cardboard drawers with all the weird hardware items might have something close. I think I made my own when I did my MC as they were the same as yours.

thanks...

yea, that's what i'm gonna do... there were a couple relays on the mech board that were mounted in a similar way, and that is where i found something that worked for those... those hadn't dry rotted, but i destroyed a couple of them trying to over-tighten them...

#206 10 years ago

tying back to a post from a few weeks ago... i had a few cammed out screws on one of the flipper bushings to deal with (and as it is turning out, a few others have popped up on other things along the way)...

i was able to remove them by drilling (carefully!) into the center of the head of the screw until i got the drill bit into the screw a bit, and then backed them out by reversing the drill...

memo to self: the screw is HOT when removed this way... i scalded myself pretty good with the first one... you'd think i'd have remembered this from using this method previously on other things, but NOOOOOOOO.....

#210 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

There is a tool called an easy out. I don't know how small they are made but it is for this purpose. You drill a hole and then insert this tool which looks like a tapered, reverse threaded, drill bit. It bites into the sides of the hole in the screw head you just made and backs the screw out.

yea... i've used those before in my "car days"... they are about a 50/50 proposition on that... it likely would have worked for this, since the drill bit alone backed it out... i was actually going to use a homebrew version of that, but as it turned out, i didn't need it...

#211 10 years ago

yup, that one... plus 2 others (so far) on a relay bracket... whoever worked on this machine before was NOT gentle...

#212 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Cant you just take the other screws out and with a solder gun heat the offending screw ,pulling the bushing with needle nose pliers , thus melting the bushing allowing it to pass. That way vice grips will have enough to grab onto,that should work.

yea, that woulda worked on the ones on the bushing (there were actually 2 on that)...

edit for the edit: damn, if i had thought of using a torch, i would have.... fire!!! fire!!!

as noted above, i was gonna use a "home brew" easy-out (like pafasa suggested above), but the drill bit alone worked... i initially tried getting a hacksaw on it to cut in a slot to get a flat blade screwdriver on it, but didn't get far with that...

#214 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

I used to use them ^^ till one snapped in the broken screw. No more!

yup, that's the "bad 50%"... been there on the "break off" issue, and it was a ROYAL pita once it broke off in there...

#216 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

I have one of those tiny pencil torches,it had gotten me outta some tough ones. It lives up to its name as the flame can be as small as a sharpened pencil.

another thing to add to the "tools i want list"...

#218 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

http://www.harborfreight.com/pencil-torch-94185.html Read the reviews (some people are just impatient on the after fill wait),same one i got, priced to sell! Never an issue, but i bought that one over ten years ago ,so maybe the quality went down. Just return it if there are issues,HF stands behind their tools.

and there just happens to be a hf not more than 3 miles from my house... gonna go get one tomorrow...

of course, i won't get out of there with only the torch...

#220 10 years ago

^^^

it was a happy day when they opened the one close by... there's a few others within shouting distance, but they can be downright painful to get to...

#222 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

I know the feeling, <<^^ I have to scour every aisle twice!

you just never know... there might be something you NEED that you missed the first time around...

#224 10 years ago

i shoulda got some of that... there is a bunch somewhere in my shed, but good luck finding it...

i got out of there relatively unscathed today... the torch (on sale for 3.99 ), a box of vinyl gloves and a pair of scissors... not bad... since it's right next to the dollar general, i stopped in there and got a couple gallons of mean green too... i wish i could get that stuff in a 55 gallon drum...

#226 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

Be careful with Mean Green on Gottlieb score reels.
It will take the ink off.
Williams on te overhand seems ok.

yea, no mean green on the ink side of score reels... i just get the ink side as clean as i can with water and a rag (withoutrubbing hard)... then use the suggestion i picked up from todd's video of decagon rebuilds, and wax the living crap out of the ink side... then i use mean green on the "inside" of the reel...

no mean green on anything "inked", period, for me... i learned that lesson by putting a set of pop bumpers through the ultrasonic cleaner... took all the ink clean off...

#227 10 years ago

given that i have destroyed every coil that i have tried to remove a metal sleeve from...

this one is from a sling (the one for the other sling looks basically the same)... i cleaned it out real good with alcohol and a q-tip... think i can use it "as-is", or should i just add 2 more new coils to my list (since i will no doubt destroy these like the others)?

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#232 10 years ago

cool... me likey when i get the answer i want to hear... i should have asked this question before i destroyed all of the pop bumper coils... the flipper ones would have been unsavable anyway, so no great loss there...

@jeff... i need to work on my "touch"... i tried that with a couple of the others, and didn't get the desired result...

#233 10 years ago

since my tumbler is running 24 hours a day these days, i tossed in the keys...

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#234 10 years ago

keep or replace? pop bumper stops, plungers and steel plates...

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#238 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

That's tough. The brackets and stops look like something is keep. Same for the plungers until you see how worn the keyholes are. My guess is there is quite a bit of play between the plunger and the plate. I think I would end up replacing the plungers and brackets.

yea, those worn keyholes are telling me that "replace" is a better option...

i DESPISE rebuilding pops, pop bumper light sockets are the worst part of a pin... i would rather spend a few more dollars at this point, rather than having to spend the money later AND have to rebuild them again...

i tend to look at things this way... if i'm putting a ton of effort into something, i'd rather spend money and make sure i don't have to do it again, or have to deal with agg down the road (hence my compulsive replacing of any screws i remove with new ones, if possible)...

#239 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

If the pop bumpers worked fine prior why waste your $$, it would be better spent on Beer!
As fflint_18 said dont replace stuff unless needed.

unfortunately, how well they worked previously is unknown...

opinions certainly appreciated and noted though... since i asked for them...

i guess the worst thing that happens if i use them is that i end up rebuilding them again... and the positive is i have more money for beer now...

#241 10 years ago

btw... none of the bumper bodies and bases survived being taken apart... those bases were STUCK in the bumpers but good...

#243 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

I think a lot of guys like to replace components like these to achieve the crispness of a new machine. I can certainly understand that but I don't like to spend extra on a likely marginal if even noticeable performance increase. I think most of us would like to go all Pinball Rescue on our machines and replace every sleeve, coil stop and plunger. Pop bumpers are a bit of a pain. I understand the beauty of doing it once and never having to worry about it again. I guess it depends on how budget minded you are on this project. With a limited budget you learn a lot of that isn't always needed to still have a fast and fun playing machine. If you have the luxury of not having to worry about it go for it. I'd like to be the latter but am the former.

very well put... that pretty much sums up the quandary... i'm fortunate enough that budget really isn't an issue, but that doesn't mean i like to spend money just for the heck of it...

it doesn't help that i can be described as a "habitual replacer"... prior to the pinball obsession, i've always been in the habit of replacing wear parts whenever i take something apart... i KNOW it's not necessary all the time, but i can't help myself...

which is why i asked you guys for advice... i'm trying to break myself of the "just replace it" habit; i replaced a lot of things on the jacks open that i likely didn't need to replace...

#244 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

If stuff is worn by all means replace the affected part,but usually replacing every piece is not needed. Keyword usually.
Here is good illustration of Gottlieb P/bumps. > http://www.pbresource.com/images/bumpercap.jpg
<<Unless you have seen that already?
Just start honing your soldering skills and you will be fine,believe it or not i hate aligning flippers more than rebuilding a P/bumper.
Replace drop targets on a Gottlieb sometime ,now there is a little challenge for you to do.

yea, the part i gotta learn is the "usually not needed"...

yup, saw that... and no doubt, my soldering skills could be better...

it took me 2 full days to r&r the drop target bank on the jacks open... i consider that one of the greatest accomplishments of my life... i can't imagine that replacing individual ones will be a real thrill either...

#247 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

Step away from the phone.
Just make sure those stops aren't magnetized and move on.
Everything will be ok.
And just think.
If you do have to take them apart then you get to test your skills again.

nah, if i do have to take them apart again, i'm calling you to come do it for me...

#248 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Did my brothers Capt card 16 drop targets 2 weeks ago,changed them all out.
Fun getting the two accompanying springs for each target off there positions then off to the next one,good way to kill some time.

yea, that's a REAL patience job... it was probably easier on me that i was starting with the entire target bank assembly disassembled and i was rebuilding it on the bench, rather than in the machine... threading the rod through was a bit of an exercise in patience though...

something tells me i might get some practice soon, i volunteered to help bert with the ones on his newly acquired toy if he needed a hand...

#250 10 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

This is a good thing!

one can never have too much beer...

unfortunately, one can DRINK too much beer...

#252 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Yeah he lives closer.

yea, just a tad...

a funny anecdote... i had r&r'd the "kicker" thingie that kicks the ball into the shooter lane awhile ago and set it aside... yesterday, i went and sat down next to the inverted pf to put it back on... after sitting there and trying for about a half an hour trying to figure out how it went back on, i finally remembered that it mounts to the top, not the bottom, of the pf...

yes, i should have looked at my pictures...

#254 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

How hard could it be. Sounds familiar, relying on my brain to remember.
After struggling with it, Oh yeah i did take pictures.
Another reason to have another pinball from the same manufacturer ,(excuse to get another)makes it easier to see how things go back together when tearing down a playfield.

i plead guilty with an excuse your honor... the kickout mechanism SHOULD be under the pf...

i like your rationale for another machine...

#255 10 years ago

ahhh... nothing like a fresh flipper rebuild to end the day...
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#257 10 years ago

thanks jk... the brackets/flipper stop thingie really polished up well... amazing what was underneath all that dirt... i got the nylon washers from the little drawers at the mom & pop hardware store (they LOVE me there), i also got slightly larger e-clips there... all the rest of it was from the "full" rebuild kit from steve... as well as the new coils...

it's not too late... to flip it good...

#258 10 years ago

re: previous question on the sling coil sleeves... that would be a "no go"... after re-assembling one, i tried for quite some time to adjust the plunger so it travelled freely in the sleeve, and it's not happening... pulled the plunger out and hit the end with a file... still not happening... no matter what, it still wants to hang up/rub HARD in there...

oh well... not the end of the world...

#259 10 years ago

no actual progress to report (waiting for some parts), but i did get a pf rotisserie today...

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#261 10 years ago

yup... drove up this morning and got it... it was worth the trip for the white castle lunch alone... i restrained myself and only ate 10...

yea, i gotta put the rubber thingies on the feet to protect the floor... i forgot...

no need for measurements, here's how to build one... i was just too lazy...

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-quick-and-dirty-rotisserie-guide?ti=0

acrually, my wife likes it... the "steam decor" thingie...

#263 10 years ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

acrually, my wife likes it... the "steam decor" thingie...
You have a 'Very Understanding Wife "...........

yes, she can be described as "indulgent of my idiosycrasies"...

it helps that if she asks me to do something, i do it... which is why i'm going to maine instead of york...

#266 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

Yeah, you're killing me with that.
Family first so all good, but not sure I'm going to drive out myself.
Without a pin hauler I'm wondering if it will be worth it.

yea, i hear you... i still might make it out on friday for a few hours... but when swmbo asks, i know what my answer had better be...

Quoted from Pafasa:

Tell me. How do you feel about having a rotisserie?

well... if i could get a pig on it, i'd REALLY like it...

but roasted pig aside, so far, so good... it will sure be a heckuva lot easier than working with the pf on sawhorses or in the machine like i was before...

#267 10 years ago

two things:

- would it have killed them to give you just a TEENSY bit of extra wire to work with?

- why can i never find the picture(s) i really need out of the hundreds i take?

both apply to the flipper coils... there is "just enough" wire to get there... and damned if i can find a pic that includes both the eos switch and the coil so i can tell which wire goes where... after staring at it awhile, i *think* i have it figured out, but i guess we will find out for sure when i turn it on...

#269 10 years ago

thanks for the offer, but already looked at a wedgehead from a similar vintage...

the gtb is wired slightly differently (but accomplishes the same thing) but that's partially how i figured out (i hope) the "correct way" to wire this one...

1 week later
#270 10 years ago

i need pafasa to come clean this for me...

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#272 10 years ago

^^^

yea, remarkably little... other than where the tip of the left flipper dragged next to the table where the couple is having dinner, it's pretty much all there... glad you talked me into it...

thanks... the finish line is in sight... just need to clean/wax the pf, solder up a few things under the pf and build the pops, and it should be ready to fire up and see what i messed up during the r&r process... i'd like to get it up and running before i pick up the "bad cats"...

gonna order the color changers this week, was going to get those at the york show, but didn't end up going, i didn't want to get stuck in the floods...

#273 10 years ago

first shot at cleaning with 91% iso... initial layer of grunge came off at least... revealed a bit more missing paint around the pops, as well as in a couple of the buildings... not too bad though... started with the magic eraser, but didn't get too far, i wanted to watch the pats...

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#274 10 years ago

close up of flipper gouge... painted black, it would ALMOST pass as a table leg...

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#276 10 years ago

oh yea, it's got remarkably little paint loss... especially after seeing what yours looked like, that had to be a "fun" little bit of touch up painting there... that was more of a "full disclosure as i was looking at it with a critical eye" post... certainly nothing i'm going to do anything to other than wax over (besides, my painting/color matching skills are right between slim and none)...

yea, i started doing a little work with the magic eraser, and the ball swirls are coming out pretty well... i hear you on the "be careful" part, when i cleaned up the jacks open, i "over-cleaned" on a few places...

the yellow areas are a pita, they show everything... those are where i have to really control myself and obey the "the enemy of good enough is better" rule... the darker areas, otoh, aren't as tempting to over-do, they do a good job of hiding whatever dirt is left after you get most of the swirls out...

i'm glad you posted that pic, i was wondering what color that little thingie at the top should be...

#278 10 years ago

yea, mine is the off-white color, but assumed that was "wrong"... i thought it should be red, since that would "match"... i think i'm going to do the same as you did, it looks better that way...

#282 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Almost looks like you could paint a leg there,but you should be able to match some green for it though.
Looking good so far.

yea, i may put swmbo to work on that... she has a good eye for color...

the other option would be to use my meter on it and get rgb coordinates, then just play with mixtures until i hit the magic spot... it might be a bit difficult to get a good reading though...

thanks... i'm starting to get itchy to play it...

#289 10 years ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

Chris....... I hope I didn't take away from your Post .

nope, not at all... the more the merrier, plus i learn when stuff goes off on tangents... feel free to jump in at any time...

#291 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

My elbow still hurts from cleaning the Golden Arrow playfield. You are on your own on this one.
I agree with Stash, I'd go after more of the dirt in the ball swirls in the whites and yellows.

aw man...

ok, hit it with magic eraser and then polished it with novus 2... still needs a bit more polishing, i can see where i missed some spots... trying to decide whether or not i should try and chase out a bit more of the dirt in the cracks/ball swirls...

a few before and afters...

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#292 10 years ago

a few more...

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#293 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Createx is great for playfields.
I'll be interested in your experience with backglass use.

my wife, who dabbles in painting, really likes createx paints... good quality for not stupid prices...

#295 10 years ago

and a few more...

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#296 10 years ago

what the heck, a couple more...

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#297 10 years ago

the dancer came out real good... can't find a "before" pic...

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#298 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Really shaping up nice!

thanks vid... i think a bit more polishing in the spots i missed, and then a coat of blitz and i'll call it "good"... although i may try to level the inserts... not sure i trust myself to do that or not...

#300 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You work too hard. Looking good!

to be completely honest, i'm a bit surprised i have the patience to do this... patience is not something that i am noted for... at least when it comes to "finish work"...

thanks mate...

#302 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It will all be worth it when it's done. As you know, sometimes I take the path of least resistance.

yup it will be worth it... it's actually good therapy for me... good way to de-stress...

given some of the toys you've laid your hands on lately, the path of least resistance has worked very well...

5 months later
#303 10 years ago

poor sad and neglected magic city...

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#304 10 years ago

time to start giving it some love... i got the ball count unit back together this morning... no spare pieces, so that's a good sign... had a broken coil though, i posted a separate thread about whether that can be saved... it is the same coil as the pops, so i borrowed one of the ones i bought for those and used it here...

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#305 10 years ago

brasso ftw!

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#306 10 years ago

match unit together and in... yet another coil i had zero success trying to remove the metal sleeve...

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#307 10 years ago

backbox all ready to be vacuumed out and buttoned up...

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#308 10 years ago

ready for an evaporust bath...

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#309 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i'm mucking around with the royal guard trying to fix some hacks on it this morning*, and i am getting mightily frustrated with it, so cleaning some switches might be therapeutic... although now that they are all back on, i'm not real excited about taking them off again...
* that machine is getting ready to be thrown out the window... i should have just left well enough alone on that, as everything "worked" when i got it... but i had a mystery issue (push start button, get awarded 500 points) and wanted to fix it, and the deeper i dig, the more issues i end up with... when (if?) i finish the magic city, i may just tear the whole damn thing apart and r&r it from scratch...

quoting myself from 6 months ago... so much for the plan of finishing the magic city before r&r'ing the royal guard...

#310 10 years ago

flippers and slings wired up...

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had to use some aftermarket wiring on the eos switches for the flippers...

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#312 10 years ago

thanks bert... since it has been completely apart, i no doubt messed something up somewhere, so trouble shooting assistance will no doubt be needed... we gotta get together one of these days, i have your bag of switches still, plus i have a bag of coils for you...

i'm REAL good at "taking apart"... it is the "putting together" part that has been known to bite me in the ass...

i wish i was a better solderer... i've only been doing it for 45 years, you'd think i'd get better at it... unfortunately, the older i get, the more my hands shake... i have more success with the gun (h/t pin-it) than the iron, but it can still take me several attempts to get a good joint...

i'm somewhat amused that the hardest part of dealing with an em machine for me now is soldering joints together... a year ago, that was the easiest part... now, i'd rather disassemble, clean and reassemble an entire mech than solder the two wires onto its coil...

#313 10 years ago

ready to be waxed... spent a little bit more time with a magic eraser, and then decided this is "good enough"...

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#315 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Other than that one small flipper drag, looks really nice Chris!

yea, it came up good... i was able to get almost all the swirls out of the yellow, other than around the inserts... i didn't want to erase away any more of the insert lines than is already gone, so i didn't get too close to those...

i'm gonna deal with that flipper drag by waxing it good... swmbo has offered to touch it up, but she wants to practice on a ratty pf first... so it will stay that way for now, eventually to get fixed...

after the last magic eraser treatment, i just cleaned it really good with 91% alcohol and a rag... do you think i should polish it gently with novus before waxing? or just wax it as is?

#317 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Hard to tell without seeing in person. Good call on getting the ME residue up. I do that too. Amazing how much will show on a clean paper towel!

that's fair enough... i put some bright light on it, and i think i'll do a quick polish on a few areas...

yea, it is... even when you think it is clean, it still isn't... i just kept going over it until the towel comes up clean... i really should have pulled the targets through the pf to make it easier, but every one of them has at least one cammed out screw, and i really didn't want to deal with those right now.... i'm going to have to pull at least the middle one, as that one is mangled....

#318 10 years ago

i took apart the door... i gave williams credit awhile ago in this thread for making their score reels far easier to deal with than gottlieb... i now know why this is... they had to keep the score reels simple so they could spend their time over-engineering the door assembly...

frame pieces cleaned up really well with just dish soap and hot water...

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there's a bit of rust on some of the door pieces, i haven't started cleaning those yet, so i'm not sure how those will come out... the door itself isn't pretty, but i should at least be able to get it clean and make the scratches shine...

it is a good thing that we will be bypassing all slam switches upon re-assembly of the machine...

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#322 10 years ago

@stashy... yea, there's solder on them too... i'm not looking forward to getting that one off of there... as you note, the gottlieb ones are easier to deal with, for sure...

i may try to regrain the door, depends on what it looks like after i get the grunge off it... can't hurt to try...

i'm gonna try... i'm way ahead of the game on this machine though, since almost all of it has been cleaned and polished already... i had forgotten how close i was when it got out aside there for awhile...

i still have to deal with re-mounting that big relay bank on the back of the pf... i wasn't able to find any grommets that would fit, so i'm going to try to rig something up with some real firm closed cell foam... i think it will work out ok, it just needs to have a bit of give to absorb the vibration...

i'm gonna scrap the whole slam switch assembly there... i'm gonna bypass it back further in the machine anyway.... it's not needed in a home environment... edit: no i'm not... i'm looking at the schematic and that switch feeds the coin switches... i'll just eliminate the switch and tie the wires straight together...

@jr... down that whole side of the door, from the looks of things...

#323 10 years ago

door question... can i straighten these? this one is a bit concave, it appears as if the center of it was beaten on repeatedly...

#325 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

You can try.......I would use a rubber mallet, or at least put a wood block behind it to keep the hammer blows from denting further. From my early attempts at auto body work, it's pretty hard to get it perfect. I avoid coin doors that are severely dented for this reason.

i'll give it a shot... it doesn't seem to have any small dents, which is nice... the whole thing is concave... i'm hoping that if i back it with a flat surface and pound it with the rubber hammer, i can get it a bit less concave... sadly, my experience with auto body work wasn't real good, my skills there are limited to slopping on bondo and hoping...

i know that gottlieb doors are basically impossible to straighten... at least by me... i tried to fix one, and got nowhere with it...

it also looks like someone took a wire wheel to it at one time...

i'm missing a few pieces from the coin return part (unless i already removed them awhile ago and they are sitting in the "clean" box)... hopefully i'll track those down at allentown...

#326 10 years ago

as long as we are on the subject of doors... how about straightening the back door? that is warped REALLY bad, it rattles like hell...

#327 10 years ago

the evaporust did its job on the lockdown bar receiver... it isn't pretty, but there is no more rust...

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#328 10 years ago

this little screw that holds the bracket that holds the two pieces of the receiver together is being difficult though... it just turns and turns, but never comes out... i may have to resort to more violent measures...

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#331 10 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

You should be able to stick a screwdriver blade between the two pieces and pry lightly as you back the screw out.
If that doesn't work, taking a dremel grinding disc to it will get you to the heart of the matter. No loss there either.
Mike O.

i'll try that...

it wouldn't be the first time i've taken a dremel to a screw...

Quoted from jrpinball:

Just spray these parts with regular ol' silver or "chrome" spray paint and reinstall them. They'll look nice and clean again. The game looks great. Very nice glass and playfield.

i didn't even think of that... i was just going to put some wax on them to keep them from immediately rusting again...

thanks... hopefully its gonna play great too...

#332 10 years ago

goodbye to some more rust...

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#334 10 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Yea Chris, you might as well De-rust your own Coin Return flap as I bought a new one from PBR and it came already rusted and I had to do a cleaning on it anyway.
Ken

yea, the one in the picture on the pbr site didn't look real promising... this one didn't come out too bad, at least all the crud is gone... i wish someone would repro williams doors and door parts...

were those zinc or chrome?

#337 10 years ago

@ken... damn poor grade stainless... i guess i shouldn't be surprised at the grade... i griped earlier about them over-engineering the door, but one thing is for sure, they didn't waste money on metal... the coin drop guides will bend if you just lookmat them the wrong way...

#338 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

The coin flap is steel, maybe zinc-plated, but not stainless. Mine have always been rusted or missing!

that makes more sense... it does look like it was plated, i hit it with some mothers and on the small part where there is a finish left, it shined right up... the back shined up real nice, lol...

#340 10 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Sorry I was not specific, I meant the Coin Door itself being Stainless, not the Coin Return flap. I always figured the flap to be just some cheap metal.
Ken

judging from the amount of rust on it, it was made from the same metal they were making cars out of in the 60's...

although at least it is thicker than most of the other parts in the door...

#342 10 years ago

yea, it's a pita compared to gottlieb one... no doubt there... the parts are not nearly as robust, either... if only gottlieb hadn't used slotted screws...

at least you got the sleeve out... i have a large collection of coils sitting here with completely mangled sleeves stiil in them from my efforts to remove them... i think that i have had to replace virtually every solenoid coil in the machine... at least steve young is happy...

i think 8 hours is pretty good for one of these...

i polished the pf, and now just have to wax it... once its waxed, then i'll pull it and finish up the back... just need to try to fix that one target, properly mount the relay bank, and (my favorite!) do the pops...

by the time i get that done, the rest of the door parts should be de-rusted and cleaned up... i found the few parts i thought i was missing...

and then (of course) find everything i messed up...

i might actually get to play this within a month or so...

#344 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

Great job as always ccotenj. I bet that coin door flap would shine if #0000 steel wool were liberally applied.

thanks steve...

good tip! i'll try it...

#345 10 years ago

door parts all de-rusted and clean... now i just need jeff to fire up his homebrew plating experiment...

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#346 10 years ago

a pic of the door where it looks someone put a wire wheel to it.... what grit do you guys think i should start with on this?

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#347 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

Great job as always ccotenj. I bet that coin door flap would shine if #0000 steel wool were liberally applied.

you would have won your bet...

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#349 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Chris,
I use an auto body-type rubber sanding block. Might start with 120 for that. You want to go the original direction. Once you have most of the offending scratches out, make full passes from one end to the other without lifting the block so as to have a uniform straight grain. Once you have perfected that technique, move up in grit until you are happy with the sheen. (maybe 400-600)

cool... i got all the grunge off it, so i'm going to see what i can do about straightening it... if i can get it reasonably straight, i'll do the regraining... if not, the scratches will henceforth be known as patina...

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#350 10 years ago

the more i look at this, this more i wish someone would repro it...

i wonder if the door would be considered a licensed part?

#351 10 years ago

bells came out "ok"... not great, but better than when they came out of the machine...

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#353 10 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Chris on the coin flap take your 0000 steel wool and put some Mothers chrome polish on the steel wool and rub the @#$ out of it. See if it makes a difference!

i'll get some of the mothers and try it... gotta go to pep boys for car stuff, i should be able to get it there...

i'm getting good at the "rub the @#$ out if it" part...

#355 10 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Hell, is there any way you can mount the door inside out?

trust me... the thought did cross my mind...

#356 10 years ago

virtually cord clip on this was so brittle it came apart in my hands... not that it really matters, but were these originally clear?

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#357 10 years ago

playfield really shined up nice with a quick novus polish followed by a coat of blitz...

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#359 10 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Yes, they are brittle, shows you the quality of the plastics formulas in those days. Also don't try to flatten the plastics in an oven......ask me how I know this!

did "we" suffer a meltdown? these actually flattened out pretty well with the "glass sandwich in the sun" method... although they are pretty yellowed...

#360 10 years ago

one pop bumper down, 3 to go...

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#361 10 years ago

looks like the closed cell foam is gonna work out for the relay bank mounting... need to trim it up a bit, but it's a lot more solid than it was before...

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#362 10 years ago

i was able to straighten out the bent target... remains to be seen whether it will maintain it's form... i just LOVE how they tied the common in on these things, i hope my gobs of solder do the job...

before...

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after...

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#364 9 years ago

cool thanks jeff...

i guess i shouldn't sweat it too much, it's not like the rest of the cabinet is pretty...

i wonder if i can find anyone nearby to do a cabinet paint job?

#365 9 years ago

note on the pops, following up on an earlier discussion... i decided to use new parts... after all this effort, i couldn't bring myself to put the worn ones back in...

i used gtb parts... the only thing i did not replace was the bracket/stop... after discussion with the mentor (and spending time hunting replacement/rebuild parts), it appears as if this should work... the standoff on the stop is slightly different, but looks/feels like it should be ok... worst case scenario, i go back and replace the stops, it is easy to remove the brackets (although likely a bit of a pita to drill out the old stops)...

although short of the bumper not working, i'm not really sure how i will be able to tell if i have an issue...

fwiw, i used the non-adhesive mylar disks... that was what i had in my parts bin...

yes, i saved all the old parts, except for a couple of the bodies/bases that didn't survive the removal process... the coils went in the "bert bag", he can frustrate himself trying to get the metal sleeves out...

#367 9 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

It's nice to see such a nice pin refurbished by a talented restorer ccotenj. Fantastic job as always!

thanks steve...

getting close... one more pbr order oughta do it...

edit: just saw your latest singapore update... i want to be able to "make parts" like that someday...

#368 9 years ago

getting ready to make a new power cord and install an on/off switch...

unless i'm reading the schematic wrong, or for some unknown reason they decided to fuse the neutral side of one of the legs...

on the 110v side, yellow is hot and black is the common neutral...

on the 24v side, black is hot and yellow is the common...

question: did they intentionally design these things to try to electrocute people????

answering own question: in addition to the above, would they have run 110v to a metal door if they weren't?

#370 9 years ago

i'm thinking about this.... you know, since it is ac, and the transformer itself doesn't care about polarity, everything "works"...

but yea, the neutral side is the one that is fused on the 110v circuit, if proper polarity is observed on the power cord... ribbed would be neutral, and following how the wiring runs, that would be correct... it would be "safer" if it was fused on the hot side, but in terms of protecting the equipment, it doesn't matter (protecting you is a different matter)...

although in reality, since this likely came with a non-polarized plug, it was fused "correctly" at least some of the time...

here is where the line cord comes in... note the ground to nowhere...

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from there...

yellow runs to the 10A main fuse... it comes out of the fuse as red (same color they used as ground below, nice), runs to the lock/coin/10 cent/25 cent relays and left flipper, and goes from those as purple to the (110v) common lug on the transformer...

brown runs directly to the 115v hot lug on the transformer, and that is also where black is connected to...

red goes to the frame of the transformer, as well as to the coin door (there's a ground screw on this door)... so they got halfway there in terms of a ground...

where this does become relevant is when putting in an on/off switch and a polarized plug... the switch (and the fuse, really) want to live on the hot side... so a single pole switch would want to be installed on the brown wire... ideally, the fuse would want to move to that wire as well...

oy...

#372 9 years ago

ok cool, i'm glad i'm not going crazy here... i tend to forget these things are 40 some odd years old, and "modern" wiring conventions don't apply...

i just make power cords, i have the materials on hand, and i can construct a "cat resistant" one in no time (heavy duty plugs seem to be enough to fend him off these days)... i agree, its pointless to not go ahead and ground it as long as you are replacing it... especially since they conveniently provide a tap for it...

that's an interesting take on the "no power switch"... i hadn't considered that...

#374 9 years ago

hmmm.... maybe i should just leave the on/off switch out, and then do the "fonz mod" on this one too, like on the jacks open...

#375 9 years ago

it actually worked out for the best that i went through that little thought exercise last night... while following the wires, i found that the common had come off the transformer somewhere along the line (likely when i was re-assembling the mech board)... THAT would have caused some head scratching when i attempted to turn it on...

#377 9 years ago

good point on the easy fix... as soon as i put a dmm to the main fuse and got nothing, i would have figured it out in a hurry...

LOL! stories like that make me feel better about my own little mistakes i make along the way...

yes, "no fuse" will result in a "non working condition" every time... at least you started by looking at the "easy" fix, rather than going over everything you had done first...

i fully expect to be chasing out some little gremlins... i tried to be careful when putting stuff back together, and fixed several issues along the way that were causing it to "not work"* but as i'm all too familiar with, "stuff happens".... hopefully you will not have to make a road trip to fix them for me...

* fwiw, this machine is the poster child for the "bottom up" method of going over/refurbishing of a machine... i likely would have torn out what little of my hair is left trying to find some of those issues on a "one by one" basis...

#379 9 years ago

yea, the cabinet is pretty sad... a LOT of paint flaked off on the body...

i'm generally of the mind that the cabinet is the history of the machine... my jacks open cab is beaten to hell, but it has character... all those high scores engraved in it meant something to someone...

this, otoh, just looks bad... and since the rest of it looks good, it makes the cabinet look even worse... i now understand why we see all those "interesting" repaints of cabinets in cl ads... if i did not know better, i would have been tempted to paint this one a solid color that would go well with the pf... it would look better to the eye that isn't looking for an "original looking" paint job...

unfortunately, painting a cabinet is outside my skill set... after a year of apprenticeship, you guys have gotten me to the point where i'm comfortable taking apart, cleaning and putting together a machine... i don't have the tools or skills to paint one though, even though this one is about as simple as it gets...

wonder if i could find someone reasonably local to me to take on the job?

#381 9 years ago

yea, the ratio of bad repaints to good ones is quite high... it is certainly an art...

who knows, maybe i'll get sporty once it gets warm out and give it a shot... i can't make it any worse...

thats a possibility... maybe bert knows someone who is handy with a spray gun...

#382 9 years ago

of course, i could just really pimp it out and paint the entire cabinet gloss black inside and out, chrome the siderails and door hardware, and led out the entire machine as well as running color changing led's under the cabinet...

it would certainly get your attention that way...

that might get me expelled by the pinside em club though... considering the reaction that some had to my power cord mod, i might get burned at the stake if i did that...

#384 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

And don't think we've forgotten that poor Jacks Open either!

hey, what was one more hole in the cabinet?

i'm going to remove the box though, when i get around to it... you guys are right on that part, that just doesn't look right...

i still would prefer that method, especially if i mount the power inlet in the bottom of the cabinet rather than the back... but that is me... if i put an on/off switch on this one (the romantic side of me is definitely swayed by sb's stance on that, but i still am leaning towards using one), i'd have to cut a hole in the bottom for that, rendering it non-original anyway...

i know i'm pretty much in a small minority on this, but i'll trade "better" (even if it is only better for me) for "original" pretty easily... example: replacing those damned gtb slotted screws with phillips ones... another example: i'm going to use gtb post screws with rubber caps in a lot of places on this machine... it will make it far easier to change bulbs on those places (the big plastic at the bottom has an "interesting" collection of rubbers and posts) and theoretically should be kinder to the plastics that tend to break...

on this machine, i removed the hold relay entirely, as well as the slam switches... for home use (and this machine will never see a route again), they aren't needed and can do nothing but cause problems... i know that's not original, but so be it... i have the parts if someone really needs to open the machine and see a hold relay there...

i understand the purists point of view... i just don't always agree with it...

#387 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Pure blasphemy!

yea, i know... i freely admit to being a heathen... in my previous obsession (a/v), i was regularly tarred and feathered...

hopefully this doesn't get me cut off from the "dirtflipper support hot line"...

edit: geez, the tarring and feathering didn't take long... hopefully i won't get cut off from the stashyboy support hot line either...

#389 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Do what you will to those poor Williams. Just don't mess with the Gottliebs.

i'll be good... i promise...

< crosses fingers behind back >

#391 9 years ago

started to empty out the cabinet this afternoon... i consider myself lucky that only 2 of the screws holding the lightboard in the backbox were cammed out, and those two were extracted relatively easily...

china cabinet "backglass"... one of these days, the people who are supposed to come get that thing will indeed show up...

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#392 9 years ago

since i'm in "cleaning big pieces of metal mode" on the royal guard, i figured i'd try to clean up the lockdown bar for this game at the same time...

after having to get what was left of the foam out of the little metal pf slider rails on the rg, and now having soaked this lockdown bar in soap and hot water forever to get what was left of the beer seal softened even a little bit, i am convinced that ossified foam is a harder substance than even diamond...

and then as it softens, it turns into a gummy mess that only wants to come off one thin layer at a time, and it sticks like glue to anything you touch with it... "gummy mess" usually equals "goo gone", but this stuff just giggles at goo gone...

yet another "law of pinball machine restoration"... the stupidest little things will turn out to be the biggest pita...

ahhh... i feel better now that i have whined...

#394 9 years ago

gotcha... i'll remember that for the next one...

#395 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Sounds like you might have to go with a repaint huh?

Quoted from stashyboy:

Maybe you can recruit one of your local NJ guys to tag team it?

boilerman was willing to take on the job, so i dropped off the cabinet at his place yesterday to get prettied up...

this was the first time we had met in person, really enjoyed chatting with him... wish i could have stayed longer... besides the good conversation, he has one SWEET lineup of machines...

#396 9 years ago

stashy, the "old style rollover button" from pbr is the correct one for the button at the top of the playfield, correct? i found the switch blade for it in the parts catalog, but can't find the button itself...

link to pbr page: http://www.pbresource.com/rollobut.htm

pic from that page...

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#398 9 years ago

cool thanks... yea, i remember the conversation we had on "red vs. white" there, i'm going to go with red too...

#399 9 years ago

i have noted before that the only bad thing about ordering from pbr is that the "box size" isn't exactly gratifying... they somehow even manage to make a box with 4 legs in it look small...

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baby's got new shoes...

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#400 9 years ago

the dressmaker is done... more pictures to come when i get it home next week...

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#401 9 years ago

the making of the sausage is here...

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/106071326509022448809/album/6003115822377995937?authkey=CL6wvMaL883RWw&source=appredir

thanks to dave for taking the pics throughout the process and sharing them...

#405 9 years ago

nope, don't mind at all...

if it was me, i'd clean it with soap and water (or mean green, or whatever was sitting on top of my cabinet at the time), and then give it a bath in evaporust... that should get it clean... then shoot it with clear if you want to keep the rust from coming back...

those were never "shiny", unless CC used different boxes than anyone else... every one i've ever seen is just plain cheap sheet metal...

#408 9 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

damn another chemical I don't have!!! Where do you buy that from?

my local harbor freight has it... i also believe you can get it at autozone... it isn't cheap, but it does last a LONG time... it works and has the bonus of being non-toxic... toss in, wait...

Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Or, I'd probably lean towards media blasting it. It's small enough to fit in a smaller blaster cage, and that would leave a nice even (and rust-free) finish. So if soaking alone didn't do the trick, I'd probably skip to media blasting.

i want a blaster, that would be a wicked convenient tool to have... but i don't have room for one...

i would agree, i don't think i would use anything abrasive, because imo, that would be a VERY deep rabbit hole on a piece like that... short of something like blasting it, clean it and de-rust it and call it a day...

#410 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You've done very nice work here Chris. You and boilerman both. It looks like it is in the downhill stretch now

thanks... hard to believe i dragged this thing home, what, 9 months ago... with any kind of luck, i should be plugging it in soon (keep an eye on cnn for house explosions in new jersey... )... i'm picking up the cab on wednesday, and i have a few loose ends to tie up mechanically, as well finishing up some metal parts... i also need to order a few color changing led's for the fountain...

Quoted from o-din:

and getting close to being packed up and shipped west.

#411 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You've done very nice work here Chris. You and boilerman both. It looks like it is in the downhill stretch now and getting close to being packed up and shipped west.

i would imagine we could work something out after i've had a chance to play it for a bit... like it or not, i'm going to have to sell a few things eventually, i'm picking up 2 projects tomorrow, and there is very little room at the inn...

anyone want a pro-football or a bad cats?

#413 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Well hot diggety dog!

Jethro_Bodine.jpg 6 KB

what in tarnation have you brung home now jethro???

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#415 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

A whole new attitude.

th-2-802.jpeg 23 KB

jethro, someday you and me got to have a long talk...

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#417 9 years ago

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i love the internets...

#420 9 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Sweet I have a 20% off coupon for Harbor Freight!!! Although it being "non-toxic" is a drawback!!!!

memo to self: don't let mesz near my chemical collection...

#422 9 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Coming from the guy who got me hooked on these chemicals!!!
Harbor Freight was out of the Evaporust!

i haven't told you about the "good stuff" yet... sadly, they will not let me have c4...

hmmm... you got an autozone or something like that around? i believe that some of the car parts chains carry it... motorcycle shop might too...

#423 9 years ago

indirectly scored a door yesterday... the grand prix i dragged home has a real nice one, so i'm going to swap it...

#424 9 years ago

since i had the rental to get the 2 new projects, i ran out to dave's house and picked up the cabinet today...

the mech board is homeless no more...

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#425 9 years ago

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#426 9 years ago

stashy, any suggestions on what to use to paint the metal rail that the bg sits in?

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#428 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Doesn't mean you have to make a rush job out of this one now.

just checked, thread started august 21, 2013... i still may break the 1 year barrier...

right now, i am going to order a pizza and rush to become one with the recliner... 430 miles driving a mommy hauler in a 24 hour period (made it back to the rental place with 7 minutes to spare... ) is enough rushing for now...

#430 9 years ago

oh man! that isn't an earthquake you are having right now, it is my stomach growling...

#433 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

I have always carefully cleaned/polished that trim/lift piece. It is chrome, but almost always some rust/pitting on it.

cool, thanks... i'll do that... is there a trick to getting it off the bg?

#439 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Yikes! No, don't try and take it off, or you'll pull a bunch of the ink with it!
That's what I meant by being careful. You can run some painter's tape across the front glass if you like. That way you can use steel wool if needed. Those plastic side trim pieces tend to rip the ink off pretty easy too, so work carefully.

yea, i figured i'd ask before i tried, it doesn't look like it really wants to come off...

ok, gotcha... i will be gentle...

#444 9 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Chris,
That "MC" is looking great! You're going to have a mint piece when it's done. Really great game too. One of Williams' best. My friend just sold a very nice "Magic Town". I was surprised he sold it. We always enjoyed playing it at his place. I think he's delivering it at the Allentown show.

thanks jr... i'm really happy with the way it is turning out, and the cabinet job really makes it pop... it's a bit hard to believe that it is the same grungy machine i dragged home...

found a couple issues last night while i was piecing things together... i put the gear in the credit unit the "wrong way", it needs to be rotated 180 degrees... not a big deal... there's 1 more pf relay that needs to be cleaned too... i think i probably skipped over that one earlier (screws are cammed) figuring i'd deal with it later (and "later" has now come)...

with any kind of luck, i'll get the various metal parts that need to be regrained or polished done soon... it was too cold to powerwash the side rails yesterday, plus i was beat... i gotta disassemble the door on the "grand prix" so that i can use it on this one...

but i'm starting to smell the finish line...

#445 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Anybody for dessert?

o-din sundae.jpg 27 KB

mmm... breakfast!

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