a &quot;magic city&quot; followed me home today... :)

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
@bert... see what happens when you go out of town? stashyboy posted a link to this one in the "em's on ebay" thread... after a few pm's with him to make sure i wasn't gonna regret buying it, i popped the ebay guy an offer and he took it... it was down in newark, right next to the university of delaware campus, so only about an hour away...
my eyes are still peeled for "projects" for us though... something will pop up to make up for that deal we recently missed.

You have to watch for me. Good stuff pops up and is gone before I see it.

I can't watch much from work and Pinside is actually blocked.

If you see something call my cell.

Thanks.

#52 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from fflint_18:
You have to watch for me. Good stuff pops up and is gone before I see it.
I can't watch much from work and Pinside is actually blocked.
If you see something call my cell.
Thanks.

wow, pinside blocked... that's a pretty draconian internet usage policy...

will do...

#53 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

one clean set of score reels... hooray beer!!!

image.jpg

#54 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

got the replay unit out, taken apart and mostly cleaned... i hope i can put it bck together...

image.jpg image.jpg

#55 10 years ago

LEB

fflint_18

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:wow, pinside blocked... that's a pretty draconian internet usage policy...
will do...

Yep.

Plus RGP

Plus any non company email servers.

#56 10 years ago

ERJ

Magic City and Beat Time were my first 2 games, I saved them from a dumpster both were complete with schematics and receipt both bought from Hub Music in No. Dak Dec. of 67.
That was in '04 here they are rebuilt @ CAX in '06 my first show and one of AL with Beat Time and my L7 @ PAGG.
Beat Time is now with a No. Cal with a collector, it was @ PAGG again this year with the Beatles BG.
MC is with a collector in Ridgecrest.
I should have kept MC it is one of the better '60's WMS games.
You scored that PF and plastics look nice.

big_al_beat_time.jpg picture-63.jpg

#57 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

@tracelifter...

thanks for chiming in, "success stories" build my confidence... i don't mind admitting that i'm still a bit apprehensive about my ability to bring something back from the dead; this is only my 2nd "project" machine...

yea, i lucked out with the pf and plastics, for sure... the plastics are warped, but unbroken... i have several others that need to be flattened too, and today is supposed to be warm and sunny, so i'm planning on doing the "flatten them inbetween pf glass in the sun" trick today... i'm hoping that works out...

of course, i will then have to try to not lose them...

#58 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

re: earlier comments about "damp location"...

my "guess" is that this lived for quite awhile in an arcade on a boardwalk somewhere... i'm guessing this because when i pulled various jones plugs, they have a considerable build up of that "white crap" that forms around unprotected electrical connections when in the presence of salt...

a guess anyway... not that it really matters...

#59 10 years ago

LEB

fflint_18

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
@tracelifter...
thanks for chiming in, "success stories" build my confidence... i don't mind admitting that i'm still a bit apprehensive about my ability to bring something back from the dead; this is only my 2nd "project" machine...
yea, i lucked out with the pf and plastics, for sure... the plastics are warped, but unbroken... i have several others that need to be flattened too, and today is supposed to be warm and sunny, so i'm planning on doing the "flatten them inbetween pf glass in the sun" trick today... i'm hoping that works out...
of course, i will then have to try to not lose them...

I've flattened plastics easily by putting them on wax paper on a cookie sheet and placing in the oven.

Then taking them out and letting them cool with a few heavy books on them. Worked great.

#60 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

http://www.pinballrescue.net/Plastics_Available.html

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
@tracelifter...
thanks for chiming in, "success stories" build my confidence... i don't mind admitting that i'm still a bit apprehensive about my ability to bring something back from the dead; this is only my 2nd "project" machine...
yea, i lucked out with the pf and plastics, for sure... the plastics are warped, but unbroken... i have several others that need to be flattened too, and today is supposed to be warm and sunny, so i'm planning on doing the "flatten them inbetween pf glass in the sun" trick today... i'm hoping that works out...
of course, i will then have to try to not lose them...

When I got these games I didn't know how to open them up and transported them on the legs with the heads on.
I found parts online and found AL on RGP and he told me how to get them running.
If you break, lose or melt those plastics Lee F. made repros the one by the lower pop is usually broken.

#61 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

@tracelifter....

cool, thanks for the heads up on the plastics... i didn't get around to flattening them yesterday, i got distracted by how nice the day was...

@bert... what temp do you bake them at? i've seen that suggested, but haven't been brave enough to try it...

#62 10 years ago

MLF

stashyboy

Pinside member

High Falls, NY

11y 89,800 2,643 14 44

I've used that technique, though the sun bake is much safer. I keep the oven temp about 200 which is the minimum my low tech oven will do. Seems about right though. Really need to keep a close watch on them as an extra minute can ruin them. I'd say start with like 5 minutes, but checking them often. Very flat surface, I don't use wax paper, would be concerned about it sticking to the plastics, though haven't tried it. Pressing is important too, or they will just curl up if just removed from heat without that part.

#63 10 years ago

CBM

spfxted

Pinside member

Saddle River, NJ

12y 147K 24,657 4 9

You had me at recalcitrant....

#64 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from stashyboy:
I've used that technique, though the sun bake is much safer. I keep the oven temp about 200 which is the minimum my low tech oven will do. Seems about right though. Really need to keep a close watch on them as an extra minute can ruin them. I'd say start with like 5 minutes, but checking them often. Very flat surface, I don't use wax paper, would be concerned about it sticking to the plastics, though haven't tried it. Pressing is important too, or they will just curl up if just removed from heat without that part.

since mother nature appears to be cooperating this week, i'll let mother nature do the job...

#65 10 years ago

LEB

fflint_18

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
@bert... what temp do you bake them at? i've seen that suggested, but haven't been brave enough to try it...

1.Preheat oven and a flat, clean, non-stick cookie sheet to 200 degrees.
2.Cover the cookie sheet with parchment paper (clean printer paper works too).
3.Put plastic (artwork side down) on the cookie sheet.
4.Do not leave the plastics unattended while in the oven. Watch the plastics closely, as some oven temperatures are not 100% accurate.
5.Heat for roughly 8-10 minutes.
6.Once the plastics have become flattened, remove from oven.
7.Once removed, put plastics on a flat smooth surface, and use a flat weight (book) on top while cooling. Make certain not to use any type of textured item for the weight. Otherwise, the texture may become imprinted on the plastic as it cools.

Parchment paper was the key!!!

#66 10 years ago

LEB

fflint_18

Inactive member

I also tried this once with one of my Flip a Card plastics.

I was scared, but it worked like a charm.

Like it states it curled up more first then flattened out. Pretty amazing

A variation on the above is possible if you have a heat gun. Put the plastic on a smooth, flat surface. Heat up the plastic from the top (non-artwork) side moving the heat gun back and forth to distribute the heat. The plastic will curl up more and then drop flat. Put a flat weight on top when this happens. You can quickly flatten plastics using this method. While it is fast and easy, it does also carry the most risk vs. the other methods.

#67 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

cool... i've got some broken plastics from another machine, i may experiment on those...

#68 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

well, this came out just a tad cleaner... stepper gear from replay unit, before and after...

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

#69 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

there is only one "problem" with ordering from pbr... you place a big long order, but you only ever get a tiny box... a BIG box would be much more gratifying...

props as usual though... i emailed the order to jimmy yesterday afternoon, and the box showed up on my front door step today... hard to beat that...

image.jpg

#70 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

one stepper done... the label did not survive... anyone have scans of those? i didn't see them on peter's site, but i may have missed them...

image.jpg

#71 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

assuming i save all the original screws, and put them where i won't lose them...

would i be considered too much of a heathen if i used gottlieb post screws and the little rubber thingies* to hold the plastics in place?

it would make changing bulbs and rubbers MUCH easier... and if a future owner wants to put it back to original, they easily can...

* i use the little rubber thingies instead of the acorn nuts on my gottlieb games... easier to remove, and theoretically should be kinder to the plastics...

#72 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

assuming i save all the original screws, and put them where i won't lose them...
would i be considered too much of a heathen if i used gottlieb post screws and the little rubber thingies* to hold the plastics in place?
it would make changing bulbs and rubbers MUCH easier... and if a future owner wants to put it back to original, they easily can...
* i use the little rubber thingies instead of the acorn nuts on my gottlieb games... easier to remove, and theoretically should be kinder to the plastics...

For home use I use the rubber nuts a lot on plastics that are known to break like the Sandman plastic on S-M, a ball strike pops them off rather than breaking the plastic.

spideyspots_003.jpg

#73 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

^^^

yea, i figure the rubber thingies have got to be better for the plastics than metal...

#74 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

pulled the bg off today... that really is pretty nifty the way williams did that...

the bulbs were a BITCH to get out... i think some of them had been in there since day one, they are seriously cooked and were seemingly corroded in place... i ended up using needle noses cushioned by a shooter rod tip, and was able to eventually break them free and get them out...

other than 2 47's, the rest were all 44's and 455's... i went through them (i've been saving "old" 44's that are "good" for aprons, etc.)... not one worth saving, they were all blackened bad...

should i try to paint the front of the lightboard when i remove it?

// Error: Image 128354 not found //

#75 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

Try just cleaning it first if that isn't good enough for you then spray it with flat white KILZ primer.

#76 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

got the pf mostly stripped... still have to deal with one flipper bushing that has a cammed out screw...

i can see why the flipper drag happened now, the bushing is worn down on the side closest to the pf...

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

#77 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
got the pf mostly stripped... still have to deal with one flipper bushing that has a cammed out screw...
i can see why the flipper drag happened now, the bushing is worn down on the side closest to the pf...

Remove the plate and see if there are nuts on the other side of the screws, I don't remember if MC has those or not.

#78 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

here's a pic of the offender... it's the one with the washer on it that the flipper return screw is anchored to...

image.jpg

#79 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

Ah yes wood screws into the PF cut a slot in it and remove it with a flat blade screwdriver.

#80 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from tracelifter:
Ah yes wood screws into the PF cut a slot in it and remove it with a flat blade screwdriver.

yup, that's what i'm gonna try first... also, since i'm not saving the bushing, i can carve some of it out so i can get on it with a pair of vice grips...

it'll come out one way or another... i just didn't feel like dealing with it today...

#81 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

gutted...

image.jpg

#82 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

i'd hazard a guess this wasn't helping with the "not working" condition...

image.jpg

#83 10 years ago

WRD

way2wyrd

History Of Pinball

Fort Worth, TX

13y 116K 4,917 21 12

Nice. Lock relay? Z28-1150?

#84 10 years ago

JHawk1970

Inactive member

Lawrence, KS

11y 8,750 24

Don't mean to hijack this thread but a quick question and I could use help.

Local guy has a shopped Magic City with perfect backglass and very nice playfield for $450. Unfortunately the cabinet has been painted. Is $450 a reasonable price?

TIA,

JHawk

#85 10 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

Quoted from JHawk1970:
Don't mean to hijack this thread but a quick question and I could use help.
Local guy has a shopped Magic City with perfect backglass and very nice playfield for $450. Unfortunately the cabinet has been painted. Is $450 a reasonable price?
TIA,
JHawk

I sold mine for $900.00

#86 10 years ago

MLF

stashyboy

Pinside member

High Falls, NY

11y 89,800 2,643 14 44

I think that's a decent price if the back glass is good to excellent, and minimal play field wear. I always need either a very good repaint, or original cabinet. Pretty fun game play for this era. Williams had a pretty good year for single players with Apollo/Blast Off, and Touch Down/Kickoff as well. All with the new style coin door and automatic ball lifter!

#87 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from way2wyrd:
Nice. Lock relay? Z28-1150?

bingo... yup, that's the one... i started cleaning the belly board (what is the "real" name for that?) and when i unscrewed the lock relay from the board, that's what i found...

i don't think i'm going to be able to salvage that one... oh well, 1 more coil to add to the list...

after doing a little reading last night (and assuming i'm understanding correctly), i see that i could eliminate the coil entirely if i wanted to by permanently setting the lock relay into an "on" state... dunno whether i should do this or not*...

* side note... after getting frustrated with a buzzing coin lockout coil on one of my gottliebs, i removed the entire coin lockout mechanism... so i'm not philosophically opposed to removing things that are no longer needed...

#88 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from JHawk1970:
Don't mean to hijack this thread but a quick question and I could use help.
Local guy has a shopped Magic City with perfect backglass and very nice playfield for $450. Unfortunately the cabinet has been painted. Is $450 a reasonable price?
TIA,
JHawk

hijack away... the more the merrier...

Quoted from stashyboy:
I think that's a decent price if the back glass is good to excellent, and minimal play field wear. I always need either a very good repaint, or original cabinet. Pretty fun game play for this era. Williams had a pretty good year for single players with Apollo/Blast Off, and Touch Down/Kickoff as well. All with the new style coin door and automatic ball lifter!

Quoted from tracelifter:
I sold mine for $900.00

i guess i did get a decent deal... especially if you don't count the 250 or so dollars worth of parts it needs and the work involved...

what year did williams go to the automatic ball lifter? i always kinda liked the old manual mechanisms... if a ball drained unfairly, you could punish the machine a bit by really hammering the next ball in...

#89 10 years ago

MLF

stashyboy

Pinside member

High Falls, NY

11y 89,800 2,643 14 44

The second half of 1966 is when Williams made the transition to this newer style cabinet and coin door (almost the same one used for 20 years!) 1965 saw the advent of the auto-ball lifter for Williams as the reverse wedgeheads from the year before (ending with Wing-Ding/Zig-Zag) still had the (some say less attractive) style cabinet with the step down for the larger coin door and ball lifter. Alpine Club (1965) still had the stepped cabinet, but had an auto-ball lifter.

#90 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

^^^

step down cabinet? is that the one that looks like a little shelf is on the front?

continued cleaning the belly board today...

question 1: is there a reason they glued the iron to the board? or is that just stuff that leached out of the laminate? i had to pry it pretty hard to get it to release from the board...

question 2: is it worth trying to sand the board "clean"? it would be easy enough to try, i suppose... it would also be easy enough to just cut a new piece of plywood to size and replace it as well... i got the "dust" off of it, but it is still rather grimy... i tried using a real soft gum eraser on it and got nowhere (although it did clean up all the labels pretty well)...

btw, if anyone wants the original screws (i know some are picky about these things) i'll save them and send them to you... every screw i take out gets replaced with a new steel one... the majority of the existing ones are cammed to a certain degree, and i am taking no chances on camming them to a "pita degree"... it's a habit i got into a long time ago with other things, it's cheap enough to use newies...

#91 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
@pin-it...
thanks! what's a good source for the superlube aerosol? i only have a tube...

update on this... my local ace hardware stocks it, even though the website said they didn't (i found it by accident when i went to buy a bottle of liquid wrench)... they also had the tube...

#92 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
bingo... yup, that's the one... i started cleaning the belly board (what is the "real" name for that?)

The mechanical panel or mech panel as some call it.

#93 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
update on this... my local ace hardware stocks it, even though the website said they didn't (i found it by accident when i went to buy a bottle of liquid wrench)... they also had the tube...

Cool, and if you press the button w/a light touch it applies just the right amount. (Wrap a rag around what you are lubricating just in case.

#94 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin-it:
The mechanical panel or mech panel as some call it.

thanks... i knew there had to be an "official name" for it...

Quoted from Pin-it:
Cool, and if you press the button w/a light touch it applies just the right amount. (Wrap a rag around what you are lubricating just in case.

i'm still working on that "light touch" part... ah, good tip on the rag, i got it everywhere the first couple times i shot it... at least i had the foresight to do it outside...

#95 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

yup, it was worth sanding the mech panel... i am VERY tempted to clear it...

image.jpg image.jpg

#96 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Night and day difference.

#97 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin-it:
Night and day difference.

yea, i was pretty surprised at how well it came out... the only part that didn't come completely clean was where the iron mounts, i didn't want to sand all the way through the top layer of the plywood...

#98 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Isn't it fun getting all the one piece spaghetti disaster off the panel?
My Royal Flush playfield is stripped clean waiting for me to paint and clear it ,except I put the mechanical attachment screws back in each respective place as not to confuse myself at a later date.

Not sure how you removed your mechanical parts but after I started pulling it up slowly in a small heap on the back of the playfield, I had a lightbulb moment and actually used a thick piece of cardboard not unlike a stretcher and slowly lifted and transferred it in the same orientation as it once was. That and pictures and video just in case too.

#99 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from ccotenj:
yup, it was worth sanding the mech panel... i am VERY tempted to clear it...

Wal-Mart spray bombs satin clear if they still carry it,about a $1.20 a can.

#100 10 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member