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Dutch Pinball, 2016You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider flynnibus.
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Please tell me there is some better way to reach the screws under the left ramp area than removing the entire main board?
Plastic to the left of the ramp was loose… i see its screwed from underneath (why not a tnut?) and this entire area is obstructed by the main board. I can see a screw loose and leaning on the board near that daughter card board 
And why the mix of torx and non torx in the game. I don’t normally carry torx bits in the bag for space reasons.
Quoted from Rensh:Wow. This is a new one for me
Is this a brand new tbl? What is serialno (see backside backbox)?
Pm sent
My issue with the scoop don't seem to be the switch (the game knows the switch is closed in the test menu) - but the fact it frequently gets into a state where the game simply refuses to kick the ball out or do a ball search with scoop kickout.
Latest was someone was in nilist mode, got two balls in the scoop... and game is unplayable because in multiball it won't ball search, and it wouldn't fire the scoop either. In test menu, it say scoop switch (stuck) - well.. it had two balls in it! Fired the coil from the menu, cleared immediately, and switch message cleared too.
I'm still trying to find the other scenarios that lead up to it.. but 'ball in scoop and won't kick' is the #1 complaint we have with the game right now. In every example, power cycling the game clears it as it happily clears the scoop at game startup. But won't do the scoop firing in ball search in the failure state :/
Anyone have trouble with the bowling pin release binding up?
Pin moves up and down fine when manually pushing (to the bottom out position).
But when the coil pulls it down.., it stays down. Pushing it around will free it up. But I can’t make it stick manually pushing it. Even when the whole alley was out and really trying to make it fail. The plunger does move around a bit in the bracket. Is there supposed to be a bushing at all at this bracket?
3E8FBE47-FF21-4BBE-9C9C-FEEAEFF1A0B5 (resized).jpeg
Only thing else i can think of is the sleeve or stop is trashed in some way… but this coil gets do little use I would not expect that.
ha.. I was theorizing that exact same way. I was trying to figure out if there was any nyliner bushings available in the correct size .. and thought maybe a coil sleeve trimmed might be an option.. but realized it would have to move up and down and would have to figure out a size that wouldn't conflict. Your post gives me the confidence it can work!
Have you had any problems with the sleeve breaking? I'm concerned the plunger retaining rings slamming into the sleeve's lip will eventually break it.
Now to deal with getting that coil disassembled.. my nut drivers can't fit in there. Hopefully I can just remove both the bracket on the plunger and coil and get it to slide out. This isn't easy work on location.
Follow-up on my bowling alley release pin binding.
I fixed it using a 1/2" nyliner bushing. https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/20-8790-5
As usual with this game, getting to the parts needed is far harder than the work itself.
You need to pull the bowling alley from the game to do this realistically. So undo all the nuts from below the cabinet and undo the 4 molex connectors between the cabinet and the bowling alleyon the left side of the bowling alley and remove entire mechanism from cabinet.
You could possibly fit the nyliner into the bracket with the plunger already in place.. but I wasn't able to successfully and I didn't want to destroy it trying. So taking the coil+bracket off was the path forward.. as you can't remove the plunger with the bracket+coil in place. Maybe taking the coil ring and plunger ring off might get it out.. but I went for taking the whole bracket off. Bracket is held on by 4 7mm nuts.. which you might get a nut driver on, but having midget box wrenches will help.
Next problem is.. you undo the 4 nuts holding the bracket, but you can't get enough clearance to get the bracket out past the ball return. So undo the 4 screws holding the ball return to the front of the bowling alley and you'll get enough play in the ball return to get the extra few mills needed to get the bracket+coil+plunger out of the larger assembly.
With the bracket out, remove the E clip holding the plunger in and remove the plunger. Insert the nyliner bushing in the ring the plunger passes through with the lip towards the coil so it won't get pushed out. Reinstall the spring and plunger. Make sure the wide portion of the spring is against the coil.. otherwise it will get tangled with the e-clip. Reinstall the e-clip and make sure the tall side of the pin faces the front of the bowling alley. Reattach bracket to alley with the 4 nuts, adjust the position before tightening and make sure the plunger moves freely ALL the way down and back.
bushing (resized).jpg
Bushing installed
When the bracket is aligned and secured, re-attach the ball guide to the front of the alley by re-attaching the 4 screws you removed.
Reinstall the alley into the cabinet, reattaching the 4 molex connectors on the left. Test the bowling pin action with the test menus, and if all is good, reattach the 10 nuts and washers holding the alley to the cabinet.
Quoted from CALencio:I see a lot of warnings of "not for someone's first pin," but I would disagree here. The machine is well laid out, serviceable, and I've been able to see how all the different mechanisms work while getting under the playfield.
You maybe happy with your progress and growth - but don’t confuse that with being aware of all it’s warts or challenges.
The game has numerous engineering things that make servicing portions way harder than need be. That doesn’t mean none of it is serviceable.
It still has warrs like limited documentation, limited parts availability, some homebrew level stuff that leads to more glass-off time… but it just means you will spend more time and energy. Stuff many first time owners aren’t willing or capable of. That doesn’t mean people can’t do it - just that it maybe more than people want to have to.
Game is great - but it does take more care to get to a good spot and keep it there
Quoted from Rensh:Remember the MPF issue, eg leds and switches with several users stopped working? Replacing the MPF PCB did the job and we got one PCB back and diagnosed it and found the cause
Wrote a service bulletin on it. A redesign for new to make pcb's has implemented when new batch is made. For now a wire is making sure connection is always there. Step 7 is the most interesting in the bulletin for those wanna see what happened
So, in the end a simple fix. Just a matter of the PCB manufacturer making the PCB just a bit smaller as they used to. And yes, there was room for improvement in the design . Every day we learn.
[quoted image]
The writeups like these are much appreciated!
Quoted from Spelunk71:For anyone else having the problem of the ball blowing past the release pin on the bowling mech after it's launched,
I'm still confused by your problem/solution here. Are you saying the pin wasn't raising far enough and so the ball wasn't sticking in the cradle correctly after having the ball fed to the orange cradle? So you effectively raised the height of the release pin to try to make it more effective to block the ball? Are you sure the pin was actually extracting correctly and not simply binding?
Your solution doesn't look durable to me.. and if the problem was the pin's height, I would focus more on the physical assembly as something must be amiss. I'd try to modify the pin plunger itself to try to adjust it's travel as the last resort. Trying to glue stuff to steel to adjust it's shape isn't going to hold.
Simply look at the pin when it fails to hold the ball. In many cases the pin is binding and simply not raising enough to hold the ball. It fails to return completely to the raised position. The correct fix for the binding pin is adding a bushing like I outlined here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-lotta-ins-a-lotta-outs-tbl-maintenance-thread/page/27#post-7036761
The binding can be intermittent and work fine in test, but fail in game play. So I encourage you to check out the pin's position in the game during a failure vs just testing with the coil test or by hand.
If it holds the ball fine during a test, or after manual reset.. but fails during play to hold the ball.. it is almost certainly just binding against the bowling alley and not returning to it's full upright position. The bushing fixes that by ensuring the pin stays centered in the hole.
Found a bug in 1.0 with the menu system. Changing the Flipper Coil strength will lead to the 'setting saved' message getting stuck on the screen. You can't edit the coil settings again until you reboot the game. Filed a bug.
Also found if the ball fails to release from the bowling launcher correctly, the game will get stuck there forever too. Physically releasing the ball, it was still confused, but eventually got it to clear. Filed a bug.
Did the flipper strengths change at all with the new code? I swear my right flipper has the ball jumping off the left ramp, jumping all over the place, etc. I set it down two notches and that seemed too much, so I set it down one notch and will see how it plays.
Another potential bug I saw, but didn't get to confirm enough to feel confident to write a bug report was having a zero ball save save more than one ball.
I was in character or 3ball MB... and I drained one ball out the outlane while another ball quickly drained down the center. The right outlane was lit for the zero ball save.. and instead of ball save kicking out 1 ball, it kicked out two.
This was not at the early part of the mode where there was normal ball save activity... the outlane save should have only saved one ball.
But honestly I'm not even sure what this ball save is yet... Just says 'zero' up on screen like maybe I'm finishing the zero rollovers? Not sure.. and why there is even a ball save.
Was gonna say.., a towel is your friend for working over busy cabinets (EMs especially!!).
Get your magnetic extending pointer while you are at it. Great for retrieving those runaway parts.
I’ve learned just to keep the metric specific parts in the game. Nutdrivers mostly. 5.5mm isn’t a common size in most sets so I bought that size separately.
Torx I just use my large HF security bit set and that has been enough to cover TBL needs.
Quoted from zaphX:I've had my right flipper sticking a few times. Hitting the right button repeatedly does not unseat it, but the left button does.
I haven't yet dug into what's going on but if there's a sticking transistor or something, are these boards serviceable?
You should check for physical sticking first.. including magnetism at the coil stop (shouldn't be an issue, but if people have swapped parts around...).
Had a player get to dude abides and manage to blow the main 48v fuse with all their play. Guess the coil activity and resistance (from heat) from so much play was too much.
Pins don’t register hits… the game calculates the ball path by knowing where the ball cup is pointing when you launch the ball. Sounds like your cup and how it measures it are not aligned.
Have you checked out the service manual on the topic?
Since upgrading to v1.10 I’m getting a ‘scoop opto’ unused switch error. I can’t figure out which switch this is referring to. The main scoop is a switch and is doing fine. The kicker up to the mpf it refers to as vuk. Any pointers?
Thx
Quoted from brandonx76:Hey all - sorry..had a relatively dumb question...what kind of socket/tool do I need to grab this proper?
Thanks[quoted image]
Buy a metric nut driver set. Then go buy a 5.5mm driver too… and a torx bit set
Quoted from ray-dude:What I would love to see is someone build a plastic subway replacement for this game. Between the sharp edges and clanginess of the metal subway, it really feels like a prototype part that got promoted to production. I ended up lining my subway with mylar and some padding which helped, but a standard plastic subsway would make all these problems go away
what you have is a subway designed to be made from single flat pieces bent into shape instead of a traditional welded or vacuum formed plastic. Done for accessibility and cost. Padding, mylar, etc is completely unnecessary. You're only protecting metal... from metal... which isn't needed. Just make sure you don't have any kinks or corners that trap the ball. The real concern was the earlier ones could fatigue and fail at the cutout reliefs. But I don't think people have that problem anymore.
My mpf scoop is acting intermittent. Moving the pf or even pushing on the mpf can open or clise the switch. This is the opto in the chute from the bowling shot.
Before i get back there and get the mpf off to access the opto…. Any pointers where this opto connects and its potential for interaction?
I assume its wiring or connections as it’s charging with movement. The optos themselves seem secuoto the vuk base itself somehow but not the screws through the base
So continuing our MPF scoop opto fun...
The effect was the opto would trigger when the PF was moved or shaken. BTW, this also leads to fun software interpretations like the upper PF flipper only flipping once or dying early (as sw thinks the ball is no longer on the upper PF due to the opto trigger)
Took MPF off - everything looked fine
But as we experimented with the ribbon cable, we found just pressing on the connector at the MPF would toggle the MPF scoop. The ribbon cable itself looked fine, but we couldn't tell if it was the cable, or connector.
So we took the PCB off the MPF... and underneath we found the MPF PCB was mounted so close and so tight to the MPF itself, that the connectors of the socket were making a full pattern in the wood! So now we suspected the connector could be compromised too with cracked joints.
So needing to get the game up and going... we hacked by reflowing the 40pin connector, putting spacers under the PCB to avoid repeating the problem, and trying to reterminate the ribbon cable itself.
The sum of changes eliminated the floppy opto problem... but of course we can't be for sure if it was the ribbon cable or cracked connector joints.
Given the outright pattern of pins in the wood that could be seen standing across the table... I'm highly suspect of the connector's pins. If production hasn't been putting spacers under that PCB.. I suggest they do so.
Quoted from cconway84:I’m having an issue with the bowling alley. It frequently will let the ball pass the release solenoid when it is first kicked up to start bowling. It will cycle again and may or may not stop the ball the second or third time. When it does get past the stop it likes to hang up on the orange arms and I have to tilt to get the ball free. The solenoid seems to be in the up position
[quoted image]
The release pin isn't moving freely - it's binding with the bowling alley itself.
1) If it's the part of the playfield no one ever sees... why do we care? it's not like the game is going to stop functioning if there is wear there.. and there is no specific concern with wear on the edge causing greater harm elsewhere
2) If you want to stop it, you should look into something that deflects the ball downward, or is way less dense then the foam you tried. That doesn't look like target foam, which is way softer. But some sort of wedge shape or roof that directs the ball downward would work... but then you'd likely just hit the bottom of the PF wood on subsequent bounces.
but put me in the 'don't care' camp. It's an area that wear is acceptable IMO.
Quoted from gumnut01:Anyone have a ball stuck in the bowling mini loop on the upper playfield? It happened on the 2nd loop. Which was a bummer.
I had to raise the playfield for it to dislodge.
Stuck where?
Like the transition between the plastic and the mpf wood? Or back behind the building?
Quoted from nerdkiller:I get stuck on the transition between the plastic and the wood. is there a fix for that?
just shim the ramp so the transitions are closer to flat (put washers or material under the ramp where the screws hold the ramp.
Quoted from Fulltilt:JB Weld is your hero.
I thought so too, but turns out the clearance with the rug was too tight and my sistered piece was too big
The rug mech moves by here with just millimeters to spare. I’m convinced the reason it broke is because the rug mech hits it as it’s getting slammed with balls. There is just so little clearance as the rug shuttles by
EDE4A703-D521-4A19-B61E-A3E059428138 (resized).pngQuoted from Concretehardt:How many plays do you have on It and what was the build date of the game? I wonder if the subways have been reinforced on the newer games (paging Rens). I know they put some type of padding in the subways now not sure if that helps anything.
I think its the rug shuttle that breaks it. The ball doesn’t really slam into this piece much and the other tabs are not failing
Now to cut it up more and try to rebuild with something that won’t pertrude into the millimeters of room you have
Quoted from Fulltilt:7 little tack welds... ouch.
JB Weld is your hero.
Not tack welds. Its flat plate they cut reliefs in so they can build it all from one piece they bend into shape. (Tho there are additional pieces added in the drop zones).
Quoted from Concretehardt:Dang it! I wonder how much a whole new subway costs? I know it’s not ideal because the game will be out of service while you wait for it.
Me and the grinder aren’t defeated yet 
Quoted from Selig:My bowling alley releases the ball immediately a few times before the ball catches to hold for actual bowling. Is that the binding issue that was fixed with a nyliner bushing?
Yes. Pull bowling mech and make sure plunger is not binding on bowling pf or hole. Nyliner bushing will help keep it centered. But you might just align your better
Round 2… fight!
Starting point…
3BE64471-01A1-41CF-8EE8-7155FA0FB199 (resized).jpeg
Made some space…
9AFBC651-01FB-49AF-A0FD-6AA335901008 (resized).jpeg
This is how tight the subway is… just a few mils bigger than the ball. So not a lot of wiggle room
E0471A0E-7A67-4C3D-9368-E79AC988E3F1 (resized).jpeg
I tried cheating my filler piece inward to help clear the rug… but that didn’t go well with ball travel..
Don’t do this…
60E0949B-0730-458D-8AB6-6DCB448033B9 (resized).jpeg
Final fitment after making some more room. Now outside edge is even or tighter than original
CFE1DA0E-0DE7-4D4D-841E-EAD109F4FC42 (resized).jpeg
Now we wait…
353FDA82-37BF-48EB-90E0-710DF07A7F8D (resized).jpeg
Not beautiful but hopefully functional
2D882789-30FE-4FE1-9CFE-872D42DBC7A0 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Rensh:Nice work
Pls do note however that a replacement ramp is only eur 35 but is excl shipping.
And that almost doubles its cost and still takes a long time . Its been almost two weeks and still waiting for my last parts. This is to get the game going to avoid more extended downtime. A $1 fix and about 20mins of work. Seems like a worthwhile attempt.
Reordering the same subway was going to be the “if this fails” option because its still the same design. We also are working on remaking it in alternative design we hope will be more durable.
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:anybody else have your flipper buttons falling out regularly?
Not particularly with TBL - but it's a common failure on flipper buttons that don't use the o-rings or clips. The minor plastic ring they use for a stop wears. Just replace the button with new one, bonus for those that have e-clips on the shaft.
Quoted from Spelunk71:I put a small piece of dead drop foam on the ball guide to direct the ball to the left flipper. It took a bit of trial and error but works fine.
This... this solution works basically forever and is needed.
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