(Topic ID: 217437)

A lotta ins.. a lotta outs - TBL maintenance thread

By sd_tom

5 years ago


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17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 2,333 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 47.
#1551 1 year ago

Rensh Is DP offering better quality bowling alley pins which are protected against breakage? 3 of 10 of mine broke apart today (yet again). As you well know it's difficult to replace them since doing so requires dismantling the entire bowling alley assembly. So I'm asking you first before I go trying to epoxy them back together, reassembling, and hoping for the best. I'm not trying to do the aforementioned "workaround" about protecting the arms from breaking the pins. Please advise, thanks.

#1552 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

Rensh Is DP offering better quality bowling alley pins which are protected against breakage? 3 of 10 of mine broke apart today (yet again). As you well know it's difficult to replace them since doing so requires dismantling the entire bowling alley assembly. So I'm asking you first before I go trying to epoxy them back together, reassembling, and hoping for the best. I'm not trying to do the aforementioned "workaround" about protecting the arms from breaking the pins. Please advise, thanks.

There are no better quality bowling pins. Has been tried and even reinforced broke in the end.

So, the only way to prevent breaking is to install the earlier discussed so-called BA limiters. Installing those takes less than a hour, think like 30 minutes even.

In the service faq there is a section dedicated to this and has been discussed before in this thread.

If you have any question left let me know.

#1553 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

Rensh Is DP offering better quality bowling alley pins which are protected against breakage? 3 of 10 of mine broke apart today (yet again). As you well know it's difficult to replace them since doing so requires dismantling the entire bowling alley assembly. So I'm asking you first before I go trying to epoxy them back together, reassembling, and hoping for the best. I'm not trying to do the aforementioned "workaround" about protecting the arms from breaking the pins. Please advise, thanks.

It’s super easy to remove the pins and replace them. Only really need to even take out the brackets on the rows impacted.

As Rensh mentioned, I’d get the rings. Also quiets them down.

Love how my machine sounds (or actually DOESN’T sound) with those 3D printed rings and all my extensive dense rubber layer I did on the subways. It’s whisper quiet and no clacking and clinging.

#1554 1 year ago

So since the update I am having two new issues. It could be a coincidence of course

1- after the ca mode - my car does not retract. In fact, it often pops out and never goes back in

2- I can not get a strike... ever.... before the update i had a problem with pin #8 - even with a direct hit that pin would just spring back up.

any ideas?

#1555 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

Rensh Is DP offering better quality bowling alley pins which are protected against breakage? 3 of 10 of mine broke apart today (yet again). As you well know it's difficult to replace them since doing so requires dismantling the entire bowling alley assembly. So I'm asking you first before I go trying to epoxy them back together, reassembling, and hoping for the best. I'm not trying to do the aforementioned "workaround" about protecting the arms from breaking the pins. Please advise, thanks.

I cut some rings out of clear vinyl tubing as I didn’t want to wait for the plastic rings. They have been rock solid and super quiet since. It took about 30 min maximum and cost about 50 cents in tubing. Good luck with the fix!

#1556 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

Rensh Is DP offering better quality bowling alley pins which are protected against breakage? 3 of 10 of mine broke apart today (yet again). As you well know it's difficult to replace them since doing so requires dismantling the entire bowling alley assembly. So I'm asking you first before I go trying to epoxy them back together, reassembling, and hoping for the best. I'm not trying to do the aforementioned "workaround" about protecting the arms from breaking the pins. Please advise, thanks.

After epoxying my many broken pins back together for the 2nd time, putting clear heat shrink around them, and using rubber rings as limiters they've held together for the last 3 months or so. Well except for my 5 pin which somehow broke at the ring part.

#1557 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

So since the update I am having two new issues. It could be a coincidence of course
1- after the ca mode - my car does not retract. In fact, it often pops out and never goes back in
2- I can not get a strike... ever.... before the update i had a problem with pin #8 - even with a direct hit that pin would just spring back up.
any ideas?

Doubtful that this is due to the update but easy to check. Just select the previous version and try.

1 sounds like a switch issue. Check working of the parking targets and cardoor close switch. See service faq.

2 have you tried the software setting described in the operational manual page 54?

#1558 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

There are no better quality bowling pins. Has been tried and even reinforced broke in the end.
So, the only way to prevent breaking is to install the earlier discussed so-called BA limiters. Installing those takes less than a hour, think like 30 minutes even.
In the service faq there is a section dedicated to this and has been discussed before in this thread.
If you have any question left let me know.

Are bowling pin limiters still a good idea on brand new games or has a factory fix been implemented rendering it unnecessary? Build date Sept 23, 2022. Same question for the flipperbushing upgrade.

#1559 1 year ago
Quoted from cconway84:

Are bowling pin limiters still a good idea on brand new games or has a factory fix been implemented rendering it unnecessary? Build date Sept 23, 2022. Same question for the flipperbushing upgrade.

BA limiters are standard since the fix was released at all new games. So, no action required.

Sept 23, think it already has flipper bushing. Easy to check, just see if a white ‘pipe’ is present below the MPF at the spot of the flipper.

#1560 1 year ago
Quoted from mac2444:

I cut some rings out of clear vinyl tubing as I didn’t want to wait for the plastic rings. They have been rock solid and super quiet since. It took about 30 min maximum and cost about 50 cents in tubing. Good luck with the fix!

I just received what I thought was the right size vinyl tubing but I can barely get it onto the posts. The service FAQ says 5/6" inner diameter. So I bought this vinyl tubing. 5/16 Inner - 7/16 Outer, Clear: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E62TCC
Is this the right inner and outer diameter tubing? Any links to the correct product would help as this just seems wrong.

Rensh Also before putting all of the rails and such back together, how can one test each rail, physically to ensure that this workaround is actually going to prevent breakage in the future? The FAQ doesn't cover how to do so until after you've reassembled the entire thing and go into the software test mode. I'd like to know the expected behavior of each pin's backward motion before I reassemble everything.

#1561 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

I just received what I thought was the right size vinyl tubing but I can barely get it onto the posts. The service FAQ says 5/6" inner diameter. So I bought this vinyl tubing. 5/16 Inner - 7/16 Outer, Clear: amazon.com link »
Is this the right inner and outer diameter tubing? Any links to the correct product would help as this just seems wrong.
Rensh Also before putting all of the rails and such back together, how can one test each rail, physically to ensure that this workaround is actually going to prevent breakage in the future? The FAQ doesn't cover how to do so until after you've reassembled the entire thing and go into the software test mode. I'd like to know the expected behavior of each pin's backward motion before I reassemble everything.

Once you cut the tubing into rings (8mm, I think) I found they stretched onto the post without much effort. If it won't then I guess you'll need the next size up. My tubing was 5/16 as well.

#1562 1 year ago
Quoted from timlah79:

I just received what I thought was the right size vinyl tubing but I can barely get it onto the posts. The service FAQ says 5/6" inner diameter. So I bought this vinyl tubing. 5/16 Inner - 7/16 Outer, Clear: amazon.com link »
Is this the right inner and outer diameter tubing? Any links to the correct product would help as this just seems wrong.
Rensh Also before putting all of the rails and such back together, how can one test each rail, physically to ensure that this workaround is actually going to prevent breakage in the future? The FAQ doesn't cover how to do so until after you've reassembled the entire thing and go into the software test mode. I'd like to know the expected behavior of each pin's backward motion before I reassemble everything.

With the spacers, the pins should no longer hit the bar behind them at full deflection. You can test this by hand just by pushing them up. The last row of pins has nothing to hit but I put the spacers on it anyway. I did them one row at a time by sliding the rod out to the side but not totally out, fit the rings to the pins and then hold them into the could while you slide the pivot rod back in. A little bit fiddly but doable with one person for sure. Hope this helps!

#1563 1 year ago

Where can I get more bowling pins to replace the broken ones?

#1564 1 year ago

So I'm trying to install version 59 so I can install 1.00

When I select it on the USB update it goes to this screen. I've tried it a few times, other USB ports, off and on. Waited 30mins and still just get this screen when I click on version 59 in the USB menu.

Also how to i make issue notifications go away?

20221028_181101 (resized).jpg20221028_181101 (resized).jpg
#1565 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhoody:

So I'm trying to install version 59 so I can install 1.00
When I select it on the USB update it goes to this screen. I've tried it a few times, other USB ports, off and on. Waited 30mins and still just get this screen when I click on version 59 in the USB menu.
Also how to i make issue notifications go away?
[quoted image]

Trying to understand what is happening here.

For starters I see you have an offset in the display. It looks like your screen has shifted, can this be correct? If you click on test report which errors are reported? Only then we can decide what to do to get the issues away. Reported issued don’t stop the update by the way.

If you click on USB update, does it see your update file 059? If not, is it still zipped?

#1566 1 year ago

Actually, my TBL targets are front mounted (broken TBL target on left). Guess I’ll have to send the new ones back.

97098417-617C-4999-B7C9-5124B46DFBDB (resized).jpeg97098417-617C-4999-B7C9-5124B46DFBDB (resized).jpeg
#1567 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Trying to understand what is happening here.
For starters I see you have an offset in the display. It looks like your screen has shifted, can this be correct? If you click on test report which errors are reported? Only then we can decide what to do to get the issues away. Reported issued don’t stop the update by the way.
If you click on USB update, does it see your update file 059? If not, is it still zipped?

The issue was I had the ZIP file on the usb but nothing in it. I should have realized it was 1kb

Thanks

#1568 1 year ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

Actually, my TBL targets are front mounted (broken TBL target on left). Guess I’ll have to send the new ones back.[quoted image]

Ah man. Apologies for steering you wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago I had all of mine apart replacing the loose pop-rivets with screws. I thought I had a clear memory of the assembly after that...strikes and gutters I guess

#1569 1 year ago
Quoted from RobF:

Ah man. Apologies for steering you wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago I had all of mine apart replacing the loose pop-rivets with screws. I thought I had a clear memory of the assembly after that...strikes and gutters I guess

No worries. Mistakes happen. Should have double-checked myself. All the more reason we need a manual with a complete list of parts.

#1570 1 year ago
Quoted from mac2444:

Once you cut the tubing into rings (8mm, I think) I found they stretched onto the post without much effort. If it won't then I guess you'll need the next size up. My tubing was 5/16 as well.

Quoted from mac2444:

With the spacers, the pins should no longer hit the bar behind them at full deflection. You can test this by hand just by pushing them up. The last row of pins has nothing to hit but I put the spacers on it anyway. I did them one row at a time by sliding the rod out to the side but not totally out, fit the rings to the pins and then hold them into the could while you slide the pivot rod back in. A little bit fiddly but doable with one person for sure. Hope this helps!

Thanks so much for all the advice mac2444 ! I ended up just using the size tubing I got. Made a tiny cut on each piece to make them fit. However, in testing the full deflection, I'm not convinced this is going to do too much to prevent breakage again. But I really don't want to take this thing apart again anytime soon. Was somewhat of a nightmare, especially getting the the screws back in. Keep in mind this is not my first rodeo having to pull the alley apart and after doing all the work I had to troubleshoot other seemingly unrelated issues--My "7th" pin now doesn't return to its vertical position completely and my right flipper was shorting out likely due to all the PF lifting and putting back of everything. I think I fixed the right flipper issue for now but the 7th pin issue seems to be intermittent.

Quoted from el_duderino:

Where can I get more bowling pins to replace the broken ones?

I think you have to buy them from DP although it would be nice to be able to source them in the US. I bought a set of redesigned pins a while back from the mod couple (these are no longer in production AFAIK though): Re-designed bowling pin Set of 10
As the description says they are of a tougher nylon and thicker at both the joints and the post holes.

I would like to install these instead of dealing with breakage issues with the stock pins. The only thing is the logo on the redesigned pins is pretty bad. The logos on mine look like 2 blue fingerprints (as you can see in the attached photo) and are offset to where the logo should be. I'm curious if anyone knows of a company that could "erase" the bad logo and replace it with the same kind of logo used on the original TBL pins? I have the graphic, just no way to properly print it. I tried a sticker/decal thing but it looked bad. Perhaps someone may know of a service who could "pad print" the proper logo onto these?
PXL_20221030_000611370 (1) (resized).jpgPXL_20221030_000611370 (1) (resized).jpg

Added 17 months ago:

As a followup to my attempts to find a pad printing company to print the better logos onto the reinforced pins: Two companies quoted me around $400-$500 for the job. So I am probably going the route of decaling them myself. I have the hi-res logo. If anyone wants it just PM me.

#1571 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Doubtful that this is due to the update but easy to check. Just select the previous version and try.
1 sounds like a switch issue. Check working of the parking targets and cardoor close switch. See service faq.
2 have you tried the software setting described in the operational manual page 54?

So it looks like the car closed switch isn't registering. Is that the near-impossible switch repair that people were mentioning?

Also, no idea about the pins. I went through the service manual and I selected pins, but nothing happened. The pin will fall on occasion, but oddly not on a direct hit.

#1572 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

So it looks like the car closed switch isn't registering. Is that the near-impossible switch repair that people were mentioning?
Also, no idea about the pins. I went through the service manual and I selected pins, but nothing happened. The pin will fall on occasion, but oddly not on a direct hit.

Bear in mind the pins are simulated and manipulated in software, they are not actually knocked down by the ball. What happens on the screen is what the software thought happened in reality, and what it counts.

#1573 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Bear in mind the pins are simulated and manipulated in software, they are not actually knocked down by the ball. What happens on the screen is what the software thought happened in reality, and what it counts.

I thought about that, but often times that is the only pin standing.... I'll hit it directly, it will go down and then bounce back up.

#1574 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

I thought about that, but often times that is the only pin standing.... I'll hit it directly, it will go down and then bounce back up.

If the ball physical hits it it will ofcourse move up but if the coil isn’t activated it will come down again after the ball is gone.

It will simulate the situation on the lcd display. This shows the calculated drops. If it’s ain’t up there it will also not be up physical.

#1575 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

So it looks like the car closed switch isn't registering. Is that the near-impossible switch repair that people were mentioning?
Also, no idea about the pins. I went through the service manual and I selected pins, but nothing happened. The pin will fall on occasion, but oddly not on a direct hit.

Near impossible?

You ‘just’ need some pliers with a bent nose to be able to access the nuts below the switch.

#1576 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

If the ball physical hits it it will ofcourse move up but if the coil isn’t activated it will come down again after the ball is gone.
It will simulate the situation on the lcd display. This shows the calculated drops. If it’s ain’t up there it will also not be up physical.

I am lost, when I go through the service menu nothing happens on any of the pins. I can't simulate anything - because nothing happens.

#1577 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

I am lost, when I go through the service menu nothing happens on any of the pins. I can't simulate anything - because nothing happens.

What are you trying to do? Activate the coils for the pins? If yes, you are aware that coindoor open removes the 48VDC from the playfield eg coils will no longer work? You will have to pull at the coindoorswitch dit bypass the security circuit.

#1578 1 year ago

Got into the belly of my TBL last night for the first time to add some mylar and padding to the subway. Worked great, but sort of wild to have it silent now (not sure if ball is stuck or about to pop out)

Couple lessons:

Make sure you have magnetic torx screwdrivers that are actually magnetic (Amazon return going out today). Almost impossible to work under the machine without that (I felt like Walter as I was cussing out the machine)

Trying to find the right size torx or metric nut driver, I have new empathy to our European pin colleagues that have been dealing with US tools all these years

Don't forget to use the little ball gate to block balls flying out (oops)

The plastic clips with that really thin plastic retainer that hold the roll over switches are an interesting design choice for a pinball machine (nothing that a rubber band can't help solve, but jeez!) Does anyone have part numbers for these switch holders so I can order a bunch of spares?

Love the accessibility to things under the playfield...very clear what is where and why

I now know what the rug is for...makes it MUCH easier to crawl under the machine and undo those 429 bolts holding the bowling alley in place every time you drop a damn screw because your torx screwdrivers aren't magnetic enough

Lay a towel over the bowling alley when working on the beast, or you will be spending a lot of quality time under your pinball machine removing the bowling alley

The balance of gameplay and flow across the entire playfield is all the more impressive when you see what is going on under the hood to make it happen

#1579 1 year ago

Was gonna say.., a towel is your friend for working over busy cabinets (EMs especially!!).

Get your magnetic extending pointer while you are at it. Great for retrieving those runaway parts.

I’ve learned just to keep the metric specific parts in the game. Nutdrivers mostly. 5.5mm isn’t a common size in most sets so I bought that size separately.

Torx I just use my large HF security bit set and that has been enough to cover TBL needs.

#1580 1 year ago

Did some overdue minor maintenance on my TBL. Had a look on sensitivity of the rugswitch. Adjusted it so now also a cradled ball on the right flipper can be detected, even in the last position. See page 17 of attached PDF.

Will ofcourse also appear in my total overview

Rug Toy FAQ.pdfRug Toy FAQ.pdf
#1581 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

What are you trying to do? Activate the coils for the pins? If yes, you are aware that coindoor open removes the 48VDC from the playfield eg coils will no longer work? You will have to pull at the coindoorswitch dit bypass the security circuit.

All of the coils work for all 10 pins

#1582 1 year ago

Link to the TBL manual please?

#1583 1 year ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

Link to the TBL manual please?

Two posts up

#1584 1 year ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

Link to the TBL manual please?

Which manual?

Service faq can be seen at https://www.dutchpinball.com/the_big_lebowski_pinball_support.php and operational manual under downloads on the right

#1585 1 year ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

All of the coils work for all 10 pins

I still have no clue, sorry, what is exactly going on here eg what your experience-issue is. Do you more info or sent a video to [email protected] ? More than happy to help but need more intel.

#1586 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Did some overdue minor maintenance on my TBL. Had a look on sensitivity of the rugswitch. Adjusted it so now also a cradled ball on the right flipper can be detected, even in the last position. See page 17 of attached PDF.
Will ofcourse also appear in my total overview[quoted image]

Appreciate you updating this. I will definitely give this a shot as I feel like my rug mech could register hits better. I'll try bending the switch blade downwards

#1587 1 year ago
Quoted from per3per3:

Appraisers you updating this. I will definitely give this a shot as I feel like my rug mech could register hits better. I'll try bending the switch blade downwards

I did the same. You can see my blade in the picture is bent a little downwards. If you have a long nosed tweezer this is a few minutes job.

#1588 1 year ago

I've had my right flipper sticking a few times. Hitting the right button repeatedly does not unseat it, but the left button does.

I haven't yet dug into what's going on but if there's a sticking transistor or something, are these boards serviceable?

#1589 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I've had my right flipper sticking a few times. Hitting the right button repeatedly does not unseat it, but the left button does.
I haven't yet dug into what's going on but if there's a sticking transistor or something, are these boards serviceable?

You should check for physical sticking first.. including magnetism at the coil stop (shouldn't be an issue, but if people have swapped parts around...).

#1590 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I've had my right flipper sticking a few times. Hitting the right button repeatedly does not unseat it, but the left button does.
I haven't yet dug into what's going on but if there's a sticking transistor or something, are these boards serviceable?

Check page 245 service faq

Don’t think this is an electrical issue. More likely the vibrations of activating the left flipper cause it to loosen.

And yes, boards are serviceable.

#1591 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I still have no clue, sorry, what is exactly going on here eg what your experience-issue is. Do you more info or sent a video to [email protected] ? More than happy to help but need more intel.

Thanks! Will do!

#1592 1 year ago

The shooter lane diverter stopped working consistently in my game. Most times now, the ball does not go around the orbit when starting a ball and eventually gets kicked up to the upper playfield (even when right flipper button is not pressed on launch). There seems to be a lot of play in that coil shaft and spring under the playfield, but I’m not sure how it is supposed to look (see pics). Is there something broken or not assembled properly? I didn’t see any mention of this issue in the service guide.

5744D206-B86E-49CF-B74C-1F021C2764CE (resized).jpeg5744D206-B86E-49CF-B74C-1F021C2764CE (resized).jpegDE1A9BEB-A150-4E13-B36B-7F85BD292ED9 (resized).jpegDE1A9BEB-A150-4E13-B36B-7F85BD292ED9 (resized).jpeg

#1593 1 year ago

hello- I'm finding the scoop sometimes fires the ball out and then immediately fires again. Sometimes it'll even trigger whatever is lit on it on the second fire even though no ball goes down- any ideas?

#1594 1 year ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

The shooter lane diverter stopped working consistently in my game. Most times now, the ball does not go around the orbit when starting a ball and eventually gets kicked up to the upper playfield (even when right flipper button is not pressed on launch). There seems to be a lot of play in that coil shaft and spring under the playfield, but I’m not sure how it is supposed to look (see pics). Is there something broken or not assembled properly? I didn’t see any mention of this issue in the service guide.
[quoted image][quoted image]

The small spring at the end is broken. Have a good look at the picture and you will see it.

You can buy a replacement at https://www.pinballlife.com/diverter-plunger-extension-spring.html or try to bent the last coil of the spring and extend it. Hopes this makes sense.

BCE65D0B-639A-4DCB-B225-4FEEDCDF8E5D (resized).jpegBCE65D0B-639A-4DCB-B225-4FEEDCDF8E5D (resized).jpeg
#1595 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

The small spring at the end is broken. Have a good look at the picture and you will see it.
You can buy a replacement at https://www.pinballlife.com/diverter-plunger-extension-spring.html or try to bent the last coil of the spring and extend it. Hopes this makes sense.[quoted image]

Yes, now I see it. Thank you.

#1596 1 year ago
Quoted from CALencio:

hello- I'm finding the scoop sometimes fires the ball out and then immediately fires again. Sometimes it'll even trigger whatever is lit on it on the second fire even though no ball goes down- any ideas?

Sounds like a stuck switch inside the scoop. I would look at that.

#1597 1 year ago

For anyone interested in making their rug mech more sensitive to hits, I highly recommend doing what Rensh posted and bending the switch blade downwards a bit. I did this last night and the difference is VERY noticeable. The rug now registers pretty much every hit from either flipper and even from a cradle position off of the right flipper. It really changes the game!

I followed his instructions by unplugging the motor, manually twisting the rug spindle down to get better access to the switch, pressing down on the mech to access the switch and putting a flat head screwdriver in there to hold it open, and finally used a small mirror and a leaf adjustment tool to bend the switch blade downwards a bit.

Amazing results that greatly improves gameplay.

#1598 1 year ago
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

Sounds like a stuck switch inside the scoop. I would look at that.

is the only switch the one directly in front of the scoop solenoid? when you say stuck as in bad or something is rubbing on something?

#1599 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

The small spring at the end is broken. Have a good look at the picture and you will see it.
You can buy a replacement at https://www.pinballlife.com/diverter-plunger-extension-spring.html or try to bent the last coil of the spring and extend it. Hopes this makes sense.[quoted image]

Made new service faq, rel 068, see https://www.dutchpinball.com/the_big_lebowski_pinball_support

Among few other items also this diverter issue is now in the guide

#1600 1 year ago

This weekend visiting Dutch Pinball Open EXPO, see https://www.nfvpinball.nl/dpo2022

So, my response time is expected to be slow(er) this weekend , sorry for this. Am hopefully enjoying our hobby to the fullest

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