this thread is for the 50ish people that do have games. go over to any of the other TBL threads to talk about future builds.
Quoted from inhomearcades:I can grab some photos of the underside of the playfield. I'll also update this thread with the part numbers for the transistor and leds used on the boards when I have a chance.
Just stumbled across this thread. Really great info. Very sad to see the mold and corrosion on your game. Makes a guy wonder what those 40 sitting on their asses at ARA are looking like now days.
Not sure if you found the LED's yet. But, these are a direct replacement. I had 2 of them out on my game.
Mouser Electronics. The part number is: CLP6B-MKW-CB0E0133.
Brian
Someone earlier mentioned an owners forum - did that happen - really appreciate all the info here. Mine is on route and has had a ton of play and we're going to be rebuilding a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed up after so long getting beat up by the public. Thanks! Will update some of the info of things we've found too. Since there's no 'games played' audit all I have is the standard stuff you all get in the reports but did connect it online for a bit where it does actually track games played but haven't had it online for a while and re-connecting it didn't update (assuming something at DP isn't working for that potentially?)
Quoted from genex:Someone earlier mentioned an owners forum - did that happen - really appreciate all the info here. Mine is on route and has had a ton of play and we're going to be rebuilding a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed up after so long getting beat up by the public. Thanks! Will update some of the info of things we've found too. Since there's no 'games played' audit all I have is the standard stuff you all get in the reports but did connect it online for a bit where it does actually track games played but haven't had it online for a while and re-connecting it didn't update (assuming something at DP isn't working for that potentially?)
Not asking for numbers but I would Guess TBL does incredible on route! I know I wouldn't be able to pass it without playing and the cult following for the movie is rather large. Congrats for sharing such a rare title.
Quoted from genex:Someone earlier mentioned an owners forum - did that happen -
yep, talk to pinhead1982
Here are the starlock caps for the shaft of the rug. They are a pain in the ass to install. But, come in handy if you need to replace the rig decal.
From eBay. The part number is: 263775512921. Item description is: 16X10mm Starlock axle hub.
I also cup down and tapered a Williams flipper bushing to mount on the bottom of the mini playfileld. The bushing DP used was not the best and you could start to see slight wear on the mini playfileld from the flipper sliding on it. The mini playfileld is already dimpled for the Williams style bushing, so it just seemed like the logical change. It did take some work so it didn't bind being the flipper mexh is below the main playfield.
Brian
Quick update on progress:
Cleaned everything with mold killer after disassembly, painted with mold killing primer, and top coated with some black. It looks terrible in the picture, but actually nice in reality...
The bowling alley wasn't too bad, so just a quick cleaning and re-installation for now. Currently trying to get my rug stepper motor to function at 100% After that, I'm planning on doing a full year down to re-plate all the parts under the playfield and in the cabinet.
20181231_221733 (resized).jpg20190103_011610 (resized).jpg20190112_234530 (resized).jpgWe think the motor in the bowling alley on mine is burned out.
Anyone know if that is for sale somewhere?
the launcher motor? its a stepper motor, nothing fancy can get a lot of places. see if there is any labeling on it.
also, stepper motors rarely burn out, so doubt that is even the issue. what are symptoms? is it stuttering? the most common thing with that is here: http://www.dutchpinball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=150
The thing that drops the ball on the bowling alley sticks and jumps around.
It doesn't scroll smoothly back and forth like it used to.
Quoted from pyramidschemebar:We think the motor in the bowling alley on mine is burned out.
Anyone know if that is for sale somewhere?
If it’s jerky then you need to take off the orange piece and re glue it on.
We already did that. Also the light in the lower play field is on all of the time instead of just coming on when it is active.
try running it without the orange piece installed and see if its smooth or not.
the bowling alley lighting is mounted to the big playfield pcb above. is it stuck on a particular color (those are RGB) or white?
Quoted from ToucanF16:Thanks to forceflow for pointing out this thread!
Quoted from ToucanF16:Can’t believe I just found this thread! I’m going to read it from top to bottom.
TBL EA 30
You found it 4 months ago
Quoted from sd_tom:Recently people have asked about what preservation steps I've taken. So far:
- Bought a spare PC a year ago.. identical to the existing one. They were $75 at the time on newegg, but looks like it's too old now/not stocked there. Model: ASRock Q1900-ITX Intel Celeron J1900 Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo. Also got 4GB of ram (2x2GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM ).
There looks like there is a new model for $65 that might be just the next revision of this board; might be close enough that the image will work.. but no guarantee
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157497
- Cloned hard drive. Used clonezilla for that. the gist is you add a second hard drive to the game PC, boot from a clonezilla usb drive, and then tell it to copy the original to the other one.
What I haven't done is actually test the image or the PC in place.. as I am using that PC for my homebrew project. So, I may bump that up on priority list.
I was told the only difference was the new board had a printer port that wouldn’t be used.
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Motherboard-Mini-DDR3-Q1900B-ITX/dp/B00J2CCCJE
Quoted from Concretehardt:I was told the only difference was the new board had a printer port that wouldn’t be used.
amazon.com link »
I ordered it from Amazon. Should be delivered today.
It seems like the P-Roc mounting fix has been corrected a newer version of the board. Maybe I missed it, but I hadn't seen that update mentioned anywhere. It appears the fix is no longer needed as the board now has a mounting point for that bottom left hole. This is a photo from the latest batch of TBL:
IMG_0761 (resized).jpg
IMG_0763 (resized).jpg
Notice the P-Roc fix in previous mainboards
TBL3 (resized).jpg
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-lotta-ins-a-lotta-outs-tbl-maintenance-thread#post-4426895
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-lotta-ins-a-lotta-outs-tbl-maintenance-thread#post-4423849
I noticed that there is a ribbon cable below the p-roc on the board sd_tom has which doesn't appear on this one. I think that's an expansion port so he must have a mod or something plugged into that. Does anyone see any other differences between the versions of the mainboard?
sd_tom what are you doing to keep the upper playfield ball guide in place? I watched your video and saw the amount of play in the trough, but what's keeping it from moving around? It doesn't seem to have any mounting point on the exit end. Since that's a hard 2" drop off that piece, thinking that might be a good place for a piece of mylar.
Side note for future reference - I messed with the lower switch in the car garage by unscrewing one of the screws holding the switch on. I left it a little lose and the garage door started spazing out a lot more than it did previously. I wonder if adjustments to that switch could make the door behave better. Its just a simple switch, but thinking back to how MPF handles switch bounce/delays, I'm also thinking software could be adjusted for that too.
IMG_0769 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Time:I noticed that there is a ribbon cable below the p-roc on the board sd_tom has which doesn't appear on this one. I think that's an expansion port so he must have a mod or something plugged into that. Does anyone see any other differences between the versions of the mainboard?
Yeah that's me playing with a mod.. not normal
Quoted from Time:sd_tom what are you doing to keep the upper playfield ball guide in place? I watched your video and saw the amount of play in the trough,
I haven't had to mess with anything on my game in a year (granted, I haven't been playing as much as this whole situation had soured me on the game a bit).. so, can you refresh my memory on the video you looked at?
Quoted from sd_tom:can you refresh my memory on the video you looked at?
You posted about adjusting the upper playfield loop in comment #3:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EjCEGGwkMhe7EoHEIe9HbeVq_qzSLZLIDQ
hah i dont even remember that one. i think it was one of those things i thought was going to be an issue and hasn't
copying here as its come up lately in a PM and then again in the club thread. you can get to the point of a system error popup from linux. i got this in dec 2016 and worked it out. i reported it to Barry at the time with:
----
In case this comes up for anyone else. I started getting a system program error pop up window every boot and it would pop up over the top of the TBL software.
I just fixed it, using advice here:
https://itsfoss.com/how-to-fix-system-program-problem-detected-ubuntu/
It was a piece of gnome that had crashed. So , not sure how much you want to touch the OS in software updates but maybe disable the notifier as it suggests / or clear out the /var/crash regularly?
For me, I just deleted the file, will see if it comes back (hasnt yet)
----
and i can say here in 2019 it hasn't happened again either.. i never did the extra step of disabling the service. maybe lucky in that aspect.
and given im surprised a URL from 3 years ago wasn't dead already.. the gist was to clean out the crash log directory; open a terminal and run
sudo rm /var/crash/*
Has anyone experienced an issue where your machine doesn’t recognize when a ball has drained? My machine is doing this fairly consistently and I’m not sure what the cause is. Switches all seem to be working. I can manually kick balls out of the trough all day long and the machine just keeps playing that same ball... never ends that ball. After doing a reboot the machine will play fine for a while (sometimes 10 games, sometimes 100). I’ve tried a few different code versions thinking it might be a bug, but no luck. If you have experienced this same issue have you made any progress in finding a solution?
Thanks for your time,
John
Quoted from DG_Amuse:Has anyone experienced an issue where your machine doesn’t recognize when a ball has drained? My machine is doing this fairly consistently and I’m not sure what the cause is. Switches all seem to be working. I can manually kick balls out of the trough all day long and the machine just keeps playing that same ball... never ends that ball. After doing a reboot the machine will play fine for a while (sometimes 10 games, sometimes 100). I’ve tried a few different code versions thinking it might be a bug, but no luck. If you have experienced this same issue have you made any progress in finding a solution?
Thanks for your time,
John
Did you ever get your game sorted DG_Amuse ?
Quoted from sd_tom:latest version 0.51 finally fixed the stuttering on my car ! sweet!
So weird...It made mine worse.
from the other thread, yours looks like it was having different issues. stuttering is vibration of the swing motion itself.. nothing to do with switch registration at either end. if i recall, yours looks like the issue was a with finding home position.
for example, mine was rock solid with both home position and hit position registering perfectly.. just vibrated during transition. now that is gone and the whole thing works 100% now.
one thing i did 3 years ago is at a little teflon grease on the bushing.. i didnt help with stuttering but might help with stiction with your case.
i can probably take a video of me manually moving my car in test mode and show where the switch trips on mine both home and deployed positions.. after Thanksgiving
Quoted from sd_tom:from the other thread, yours looks like it was having different issues. stuttering is vibration of the swing motion itself.. nothing to do with switch registration at either end.
for example, mine was rock solid with both home position and hit position registering perfectly.. just vibrated during transition. now that is gone and the whole thing works 100% now
Ah yes makes sense. The actual door movement when opening / closing is now smooth as butter. It's the close position it struggles to register.
Quoted from sd_tom:from the other thread, yours looks like it was having different issues. stuttering is vibration of the swing motion itself.. nothing to do with switch registration at either end. if i recall, yours looks like the issue was a with finding home position.
for example, mine was rock solid with both home position and hit position registering perfectly.. just vibrated during transition. now that is gone and the whole thing works 100% now.
one thing i did 3 years ago is at a little teflon grease on the bushing.. i didnt help with stuttering but might help with stiction with your case.
i can probably take a video of me manually moving my car in test mode and show where the switch trips on mine both home and deployed positions.. after Thanksgiving
adamross I fixed the car spazzing outing issue. Along with the v0.51 update, the car is now buttery smooth and doesn't open/close rapidly on start/end ball. The issue is in fact related to the home position switch. I found that over-tightening the topmost screw actually kinks the switch out. Maybe it's putting pressure on the switch internally as well. I loosened the screw up a little and it fixed the spaz issue. I didn't initially think this was the problem because the switch was making contact with the car no problem before and after adjustment. I fiddle with it a bit pulling the switch tab out further and that didn't help. So it might be an internal issue with overtightening. Not sure if it will ever move again on me but this is confirmed the issue I was seeing.
Support video:
Here's a video of me trying to illustrate where my switches trip for car deployment and retraction. on deployment, the left trips first.. that stops motion. the right is, i believe, the car hit registration switch.. so, how much later that one trips determines how hard of a hit it takes. You definately want some difference there between the two switches.
Also did the home / retracted switch too
Quoted from sd_tom:latest version 0.51 finally fixed the stuttering on my car ! sweet!
Agree!
Quoted from sd_tom:Here's a video of me trying to illustrate where my switches trip for car deployment and retraction. on deployment, the left trips first.. that stops motion. the right is, i believe, the car hit registration switch.. so, how much later that one trips determines how hard of a hit it takes. You definately want some difference there between the two switches.
Also did the home / retracted switch too
Yes! Awesome fix for addressing the car and registering hits. Makes good sense.
Thanks for posting that vid sd_tom !!
Quoted from Time:adamross I fixed the car spazzing outing issue. Along with the v0.51 update, the car is now buttery smooth and doesn't open/close rapidly on start/end ball. The issue is in fact related to the home position switch. I found that over-tightening the topmost screw actually kinks the switch out. Maybe it's putting pressure on the switch internally as well. I loosened the screw up a little and it fixed the spaz issue. I didn't initially think this was the problem because the switch was making contact with the car no problem before and after adjustment. I fiddle with it a bit pulling the switch tab out further and that didn't help. So it might be an internal issue with overtightening. Not sure if it will ever move again on me but this is confirmed the issue I was seeing.
Support video:
Incredibly helpful .Will try this tomorrow, thank you!
Quoted from ChipScott:Yes! Awesome fix for addressing the car and registering hits. Makes good sense.
Thanks for posting that vid sd_tom !!
just to add.. it wasn't a fix per say, its how the game came to me.. the left/outer switch has always been bent out farther than the inner/right one. i remember when i first got the game .. 3 years ago now? geez.. i thought the left one being bent out was "bad" (it does look funny) and tried to "correct" it.. that caused tons of issues until i restored it back
FYI mine is the reverse and works under same principle. Close one of the 2 targets and make sure the second one is “really close” to making contact. So when ball hits it closes.
Just play with / adjust it in switch mode testing as Tom did.
Quoted from Time:adamross I fixed the car spazzing outing issue. Along with the v0.51 update, the car is now buttery smooth and doesn't open/close rapidly on start/end ball. The issue is in fact related to the home position switch. I found that over-tightening the topmost screw actually kinks the switch out. Maybe it's putting pressure on the switch internally as well. I loosened the screw up a little and it fixed the spaz issue. I didn't initially think this was the problem because the switch was making contact with the car no problem before and after adjustment. I fiddle with it a bit pulling the switch tab out further and that didn't help. So it might be an internal issue with overtightening. Not sure if it will ever move again on me but this is confirmed the issue I was seeing.
Support video:
Noob question: what tool do you use to take the bowling ally roof off?
TBL (resized).jpgQuoted from cpr9999:FYI mine is the reverse and works under same principle
interesting. is yours hard to register hits? feels like outer would be better even if the other way works.. but just a feeling.
if it is satisfactory in your setup that's good to know.
Quoted from adamross:Noob question: what tool do you use to take the bowling ally roof off?[quoted image]
a metric allen wrench/hex key
Quoted from sd_tom:a metric allen wrench/hex key
Thanks. @time Your fix worked for me. Amazing how simple that was.
Quoted from sd_tom:interesting. is yours hard to register hits? feels like outer would be better even if the other way works.. but just a feeling.
if it is satisfactory in your setup that's good to know.
Works pretty flawlessly smashing ball against it.
I agree I would think the way yours is would be better.
Next time I have glass off I will try in “finger mode” to see how sensitive it is and report back.
Thanks to the above posts, I've been able to finally dial in the leaf switches at the handicap targets to get reliable car hits....whew! So thanks so much sd_tom !!! Interestingly, got mine to work triggering the right target first similar to cpr9999 ( right leafs adjusted to a "hair trigger" and slightly wider leaf adjustment to the left target). So now when the car/cardoor is hit it pushes the left target those extra couple mm to trigger that switch and register the hit...(thanks again for that video sd_tom ).
Question for the group though:
Since I've had the game, I have noticed that there is a very small amount of "wiggle" that the car has (~3mm back and forth movement to and away from the backside of the garage door). It appears that there is a small post underneath the car that attaches to a bar that comes from the underside of the garage door that the car sits on. I wasn't sure if this small amount of "wiggle" was/is intentional (for the car to be able to move/wiggle slightly to absorb the shock of being hit by the ball).
...reason I ask is that 'sometimes' I notice that with this "wiggle room," that I have to hit the car to snug the car back to the back wall of the garage door before the next hit, which then pushes the car and car door together to depress the registering target switch.
If this wiggle is intended, that's fine. But if it is to be snug to the bar underneath it, how the heck do I get under there?
Just curious...
Thanks all!!!
im having trouble visualizing what you are talking about. any way to take a video?
are you talking about the car itself moving relative to the rotating mech it is mounted to or something with the rotating mech? the rod that turns the whole car sits on a bushing in the upper playfield then travels all the way down to stepper motor on the underside od main playfield. i recall when i first got the game some looseness with the rod to stepper mount junction that needed tightening up but not sure at all that sounds like what youre talking about.
Appreciate your reply.
The opening of the garage door itself and the rod that goes down to the stepper motor all appears to be functioning perfectly well. The physical yellow car itself has some small post underneath it that attaches to a bracket that is part of the physical garage door. I can wiggle the car around by a few millimeters when the door is open, and it is this wiggling that I'm not sure about, if it's supposed to be a little bit wiggly or if it should be much more tight to that bracket. There is no wiggling of the garage door itself.
I'll take a video.
And thanks again for your reply
This is a pic of the right angle metal piece that's fastened to the inside of the garage door. Looks like the car fastens to this metal piece under the car via a few screws. Looks like 4 screws. You can see the few mm play that the car has against the garage door.
Thanks!!
I did make a video as well:
Thanks!
IMG_20200112_110427 (resized).jpgIMG_20200112_110757 (resized).jpgIMG_20200112_110803 (resized).jpg
Quoted from ChipScott:This is a pic of the right angle metal piece that's fastened to the inside of the garage door. Looks like the car fastens to this metal piece under the car via a few screws. Looks like 4 screws. Maybe even that one back screw closest to the door looks a bit loose or in askew? Tough to say. You can see the few mm play that the car has against the garage door. If I had to get underneath that car to tighten those screws, I assume I'd have to disconnect the rod from the stepper motor under the pf...but I'm not sure I know how to do that. So if I do, any advice on that would also be helpful.
Thanks in advance!!
I did make a video as well:Thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Ok I see it now.
For the car to move like that on the bracket all 4 screws must be loose.
Probably requires either some loctite on them or at minimum locking washers so they don’t some loose again.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-lotta-ins-a-lotta-outs-tbl-maintenance-thread/page/2?hl=pyramidschemebar and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.