A lotta ins.. a lotta outs - TBL maintenance thread

(Topic ID: 217437)

A lotta ins.. a lotta outs - TBL maintenance thread


By sd_tom

10 months ago



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  • 63 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 16 days ago by sd_tom
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There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
13
#1 10 months ago

Thought I would start a post here on the details around this page. If there's too much peanut gallery will move it to a private group. The first thing I am going to do is transfer the key posts from the Dutch Pinball forum over here as I don't know how long that is going be running. Also going to contact the pinwiki guy to see if we can setup a TBL page.

justlikeme r6emperor

#2 10 months ago

Recently people have asked about what preservation steps I've taken. So far:

- Bought a spare PC a year ago.. identical to the existing one. They were $75 at the time on newegg, but looks like it's too old now/not stocked there. Model: ASRock Q1900-ITX Intel Celeron J1900 Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo. Also got 4GB of ram (2x2GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM ).

There looks like there is a new model for $65 that might be just the next revision of this board; might be close enough that the image will work.. but no guarantee
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157497

- Cloned hard drive. Used clonezilla for that. the gist is you add a second hard drive to the game PC, boot from a clonezilla usb drive, and then tell it to copy the original to the other one.

What I haven't done is actually test the image or the PC in place.. as I am using that PC for my homebrew project. So, I may bump that up on priority list.

#3 10 months ago

Tom's fix / tweak list - copied from my post on DutchPinball.com/forums

Despite all this stuff.. from 2016.. my game has been working 100% for at least a year now. I have to run to work now but will update some of these that say "not resolved" at whatever the current state is

Postby sdtom » September 26th, 2016, 4:38 am
Going to maintain my list of problems/solutions here. Much of this was through use of support tickets with DP; so would ask people still send in tickets so DP knows statistics of how often people are fixing this stuff.

Problem: Right maude ball gate was sticking slightly and letting the ball back out a lot
Symptom: Good maude shots would bounce off donny ball gate and then back down maude shot
Symptom: The long spring traveling through the playfield was dragging on the playfield wood (run up the side of the hole).
Solution: Adjusted ball gate wireform to run clear through the hole / no dragging.

Problem: Mini playfield loop clunky
Symptom: ball would drop from the loop inside the bowling alley building and bobble around a bit longer than necessary before exit
Solution: Adjusted metal ramp inside the bowling alley to point as close to the building exit as possible
Video: showing how much play there is https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EjCEGGwkMhe7EoHEIe9HbeVq_qzSLZLIDQ
Video: best I was able to get https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_ctXNHUBE7f8IG2IhqrYxSYOIlKyW0oTUw

Problem: bowling alley launcher stutters at the edge
Solution: waiting on new cam plate from DP; unresolved
Video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iUTmLDvppBabTlOm4zpV1TcCla1uUf0LmQ
Pic: angle of launcher to find the set screw https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s5oFeZiB-ckfONV9sSk-HOPADMFS9fE6tA

Problem: Rejects at diverter flap / airballs
Symptom: Diverter flap would not rest within the ramp slot; would fall forward of the slot / too tall
Temp Solution: Elongate the adjustment slots to allow the flap to be lower by 2mm for proper operation
Long term Solution: DP is developing a new part
Pic: of resting fwd: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0GLVwN4NItISkdZZWZ6cUdyOGM
Video: of manual operation: https://drive.google.com/open?id=17GAmMzhIdn1rJDVbLBTW98Uzsuntvb2kig
Pic: after being able to lower the flap: https://goo.gl/photos/psxgUgaNBCfMawTy6
Pic: before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_55cF8xV6321aL4ZT2pJAkj2LkzhiSucWQ
Pic: after: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b5rkTCPc6aeNaYFfzvGrCpPimlN3wNbLCg

Problem: Diverter rams plastic when coil fire
Temp Solution: added a felt dot on the plastic to soften blow
Long term solution: unknown; maybe new diverter stop?
Concern: Unforunately, there's no other coil stop involved other than plastic as far as I can tell
Concern: This goes for the deployment as well; it looks like hitting the bottom of the playfield is the "stop" for the mech

Problem: Rejects at back of ramp scoop
Symptom: Seems like ball was hitting the edge of the scoop due to gap between ramp and scoop
Solution: I developed and 3d printed a little clip to better mate the back of the ramp to the scoop entrance
Link: STL file on Thingiverse: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1786982
Picture: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XVCGK7EQkb095BS4dVOkW9p1hY7ymR4Ndg
Video of installation: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TnsA4tUEfBt1WlRMQLGsP_NkQGQv2_hNUQ

Problem: Jesus VUK too sensitive
Symptom: Occasional double VUK action
Solution: VUK switch was overly sensitive; it should really set with the full / 75% weight of ball. Widenend gap
Video of it being too sensitive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=17f1R38nIpsnh8_m0XLTK1Kew30PEP2sUbw

Problem: Jesus Rejects
Symptom: Shots occasionally come back down the ramp, or into shooter lane
Note: this is after VUK fix
Solution: Still working on it. I added some drop dead foam to back wall of jesus area but it still hasn't eliminated.
Idea: may also figure out if it's possible to reroute that cable somehow, seems wear/tear prone.
Picture: drop dead foam (that honestly, isn't doing much) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s2g79PtLMeH2DM3bxC101f8LwNMPucOChw

Problem: Rug in wrong place / wrong time
Symptom: "Rug mode ready" when rug was all the way forward
Symptom: Weird homing sequences / going all the way back before going fwd
Solution: Reseated and used a flat head screw driver to re-terminate the stepper motor lines into the IDC connector. So, not a sensor thing but an actuator thing.

Problem: Ball trapped behind flipper on mini playfield
Symptom: Can fire flipper and the ball still stays here
Solution: Used a pair of needle nose to bend wireform slightly so that raising the flipper allows ball to roll away and down the ball return.

Problem: Game resets
Symptom: Game will sit in attact mode for hours, but if start a game, will eventually reset
Solution: Pressed in the 3 P-ROC boards, adjusted mounting nuts to more evenly apply pressure in one case
Concern: This may be just because I raised/lowered playfield a bunch getting tweaks into place, but time will tell if this is an issue just with vibration

Problem: SDTM from rug skill shot
Solution: Leveling

Concern: Experience with stepper screw drive mechanisms (as seen on rug) on 3d-printers says they should be greased for optimum operation
Solution: very lightly greased screw mechanism with Super Lube 21030

Problem: Silkscreen on PCB saying what the color code is; isn't always correct.
I imagine this is fixed in later runs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jcxG9R405wMHKKhgesouI_rI_GMrtd8jSA

#4 10 months ago

Reflecting there's one 'major' thing that i found later. I was missing the rug rolling pin mounts entirely. Barry had no idea how the game lasted a year this way.. but.. check for these cap nuts of your rug acts funny. they secure the rolling pin rug mech to the moving sled.

capnuts (resized).PNG

#5 9 months ago

Thanks Tom! What a great list. The chronic problem we've had with ours (see CaryCarmichael) is adjusting the 2 car switches so the car locks when it appears and still registers hits. We also had a problem when something loose on/near the flipper assembly broke the hold coil wiring (Cary can add details and/or tell me I've got it all wrong).

#6 9 months ago

Awesome thread title. Good luck to you guys.

#7 9 months ago
Quoted from yonkiman:

We also had a problem when something loose on/near the flipper assembly broke the hold coil wiring (Cary can add details and/or tell me I've got it all wrong).

Problem: Coil Hold went out
Symptom: Flipper would go up and drop back down
Solution: Damned silly. One screw fell out of the plate that holds the flipper return spring, and the other screw was mad loose. Ultimately the plate, during flipper action, smacked into the coil, cut through coil wrap, nailed the coil wiring, cut one of the coil wires in half and killed the hold power.
Moral of this story: Make sure stuff is tight. Not the only loose bits I've found in the game, but this one causes some damage!

#8 9 months ago

Thanks Tom, I didn't even see this thread until now.

I noticed some vibration/rattling from the subwoofer grille, so I took everything out and added a layer of 1/8" thick weatherseal rubber to both sides of the grill. No more rattles after putting everything back together.

And the flipper opto board uses one opto for the upper and one opto for the lower flipper, so if you lose a flipper, double check both optos are functioning on the board.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram or PCB diagrams? They will be incredibly useful down the road since we never got a manual...

#9 9 months ago
Quoted from yonkiman:

Thanks Tom! What a great list. The chronic problem we've had with ours (see CaryCarmichael) is adjusting the 2 car switches so the car locks when it appears and still registers hits.

Yeah i didn't mention that in my original list but adjusting those was tough. What i eventually decided was that I could not get good results merely taking the roof off the bowling alley.. had to to really take those switches off to get them setup correctly. i can try to get a photo where i ended up.. haven't had to touch it sense

#10 9 months ago

I'm unfortunately experiencing a big problem with my TBL - I have yet to receive it.

Good idea for this thread though - thanks! A Pinwiki page would be great too. I hope that the existing TBLs continue to play well overall for many many years to come and I also hope yet to be able to participate in this thread regarding my game someday.

#11 9 months ago

Current Issue: Blowing LED driver board fuse (see image). Original fuse blew, someone "helped" by putting in a 15mm 1.25A that blew immediately. Can anybody check their machine and tell me what the actual rating should be? I know it should be a 20mm, but they threw away the original.

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#12 9 months ago

Following this closely. No major issues here so far.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Current Issue: Blowing LED driver board fuse (see image). Original fuse blew, someone "helped" by putting in a 15mm 1.25A that blew immediately. Can anybody check their machine and tell me what the actual rating should be? I know it should be a 20mm, but they threw away the original.

Man your game must have an earlier revision than mine; mine's got silkscreen labels for all fuses. The one in question is F12.

Also attached is general main board with some of the other fuse labels. Ignore the fact that i've voided my warranty by using the J12 mod connector

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#14 9 months ago

Since it doesn't look like the fuse is the problem, here's the PD-LED page
https://www.multimorphic.com/store/circuit-boards/pd-led/

If it were me (who's very comfortable with electronics and is building a homebrew game with PD-LED boards in it), i'd probably try a few things. Obviously, you do what you're comfortable with.

- replace the fuse and boot up the game without those two ribbon cables that feed the bottom PCB. At least some of those are LED lines (also the switches) and see if that keeps it from blowing. You've at least isolated it to the bottom PCB if that does help.

- Pull the PD-LED off the main board entirely (gentle even pressure as much as possible). Inspect it, and while it is out turn the game on again.. definitely shouldn't have a fuse blow.

- phase 2.. What might be useful is build/buy a set of cables so you can hook up the PD-LED while detached from the main board. And only hook up 1 LED bank(J5-J9) at a time (still need to make a power-J1 and serial-J2, as seen in manual). You can buy the 20-pin ribbon cables prefabricated from digikey. I can look up the part # if interested as i have a few of them. Identifying the bad bank will get you down to 12 LED suspects.. from there it really depends on which one is the bad one.. and how much test harness cabling you want to make to pinpoint the zone where there's something shorting against an LED.

#15 9 months ago

Thanks! Our machine is Engineering Sample #1 so no printed fuse info. Will post what I find once resolved.

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Thanks! Our machine is Engineering Sample #1 so no printed fuse info. Will post what I find once resolved.

note the comment at the top of the fuse list (I didn't notice it till just now) - All slow blow fuses. maybe someone put a regular one in?

#17 9 months ago

Looking for a little help with a plastic.

I busted the upper left corner plastic. If anyone can scan their plastic that would be helpful. Since I cant buy one, I guess I'll make one.

#18 9 months ago

having not done it before what scan quality is needed to make a reproduction?

#19 9 months ago

Great thread, thanks for starting it.

The only problem I've had is an odd situation where all switches stop registering during a game. I wrote Barry about it a while back and got a reply asking me questions however after I replied I never heard back from him.

How easy is it to identify the three PROC boards? I'd like to try reseating connectors etc...

#20 9 months ago

all 3 boards are in the picture i attached in post #13 above. there is 1 p3-roc in center and two pd-led boards. the p3-roc is the one where there was a mod sent out.. which was just a zip tie and a cable mount sticker. the p3 roc isnt mounted very well so the power and communication ports (the two 2-pin white connectors) can get a poor connection.

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

all 3 boards are in the picture i attached in post #13 above. there is 1 p3-roc in center and two pd-led boards. the p3-roc is the one where there was a mod sent out.. which was just a zip tie and a cable mount sticker. the p3 roc isnt mounted very well so the power and communication ports (the two 2-pin white connectors) can get a poor connection.

I have attached a close up picture of the P-Roc kit that Tom is talking about. I kind of laughed at how simplistic it is when I received it but it works so that's all that matters.

Many thanks, Tom, for putting this thread together.

If people don't mind, I'd be curious to see all us post our game numbers when commenting about issues or whatever. It might be nothing but it might be something if we knew where in the production line our games were manufactured in relation to issues. For example, I've only had very minor issues with my game and it's been a rock solid quality build. I installed the P-Roc kit for buffering and a that's about it other than some switch adjustments.

TBL #20

ZZZZ1 PROC (2) (resized).jpg

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

having not done it before what scan quality is needed to make a reproduction?

300dpi is a good rule of thumb for scanning, photoshopping, editing, and printing.

3 weeks later
#23 8 months ago

Burningman, did you still need a left corner plastic scan?

#24 8 months ago

can buy a new full set of plastics during their clearance sale right now.

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

Burningman, did you still need a left corner plastic scan?

I sent a note to dp to buy a new set. So that should take care if it.

3 weeks later
#26 8 months ago

Guys
Setting up a TBL owners forum. For EAs without games.
You are welcome to join and bring any ideas you may have to the table

1 month later
#27 6 months ago

Has anyone replaced an LED on the main pcb? The “Y” for Donny is out on my game. Plus I have the occasional bowling stutter and garage door stutter.

2 weeks later
#28 5 months ago

Anyone have a good suggestion. DP has not responded to any emails.

#29 5 months ago

On the bowling alley

Depending on what your studder is

Pull the orange launcher off by first loosening the Allen bolt.

Then you have to adjust the two switches that tell the launcher it has found a home position.

While you’re at it....
It’s good to secure the orange plastic to the metal piece.

Burningman had a good write up with pictures.

#30 5 months ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Anyone have a good suggestion. DP has not responded to any emails.

nope sorry. are you sure its out vs cabling? there are a few debugging steps you could try. reseat the pd-led. could pull it off and use ribbon cables to connect a different bank of leds and see if it changes. if all 3 colors are out then it would be the common line between them (forgot if common ground or common positive).

if you go through all that and really think its the LED then would have to find the part on digikey or something. havent looked at all but you're looking for RGB that are driven by 4 independent lines..(R,G,B, common) and have to get the common pin to match, i,e common anode or common cathode. and in the right footprint to surface mount.

given the LEDs are normally good for rrslly long times id still assume its cabling or bad solder job before the led.

#31 5 months ago

Thank you for the advice guys. I will give both of those approaches a shot when I can. As you can imagine I was pretty bummed about the led, the bowling lane I knew other people ran into that issue before. I’ll report back once I can look a little more closely per your advice.

1 month later
#32 3 months ago

Recently I´m having the problem that my car doesn't register hits reliably anymore. Anybody else seen that issue. Are only the two targets behind the car responsible for detecting car hits? Or is there anything else involved?

#33 3 months ago

Just the two switches behind the car

#34 3 months ago

its the two targets

#35 3 months ago

thanks guys and a Happy Thanksgiving

#36 3 months ago

Does anyone have pictures under the playfield of the various assemblies? I'm curious to see what flipper assemblies were used.

#37 3 months ago

No pictures but they are Bally Williams minus an EOS

1 week later
#38 3 months ago

I can grab some photos of the underside of the playfield. I'll also update this thread with the part numbers for the transistor and leds used on the boards when I have a chance.

3 weeks later
#39 78 days ago

I have a warning for everyone:

Make sure your dehumidifier is working!!!

I went to the garage we rent to play some pinball, and when I walked in, the dehumidifier was off. (Haven't been there for about two weeks) Ran back to the back room where TBL lives, and found this moldy, rusty mess. I want to cry...

The other games there have some light mold on the cabinets, but the mechanisms seems to be in much better shape than Lebowski. I guess the plating isn't as good as it used to be.

Currently disassembling the cabinet for mold removal / sealing the bottom MDF. The graphics / black portions of the cabinet don't have anything on them. Around the outside of the head had some light mold on the edges of the wood where it is painted.

After the mold is taken care of, I have to figure out what I'm going to do with all the mechanisms. Looks like a game that sat next to the ocean for 20 years. I'm absolutely heartbroken

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#40 78 days ago
Quoted from r6emperor:

I have a warning for everyone:
Make sure your dehumidifier is working!!!
I went to the garage we rent to play some pinball, and when I walked in, the dehumidifier was off. (Haven't been there for about two weeks) Ran back to the back room where TBL lives, and found this moldy, rusty mess. I want to cry...
The other games there have some light mold on the cabinets, but the mechanisms seems to be in much better shape than Lebowski. I guess the plating isn't as good as it used to be.
Currently disassembling the cabinet for mold removal / sealing the bottom MDF. The graphics / black portions of the cabinet don't have anything on them. Around the outside of the head had some light mold on the edges of the wood where it is painted.
After the mold is taken care of, I have to figure out what I'm going to do with all the mechanisms. Looks like a game that sat next to the ocean for 20 years. I'm absolutely heartbroken
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Wow what a shame very sorry on such a wonderful example. Dam that would be a sad day.

#41 78 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Wow what a shame very sorry on such a wonderful example. Dam that would be a sad day.

Thanks Dave, at least after I'm all done I can finally install your balls in the ball return...

#42 78 days ago
Quoted from r6emperor:

I have a warning for everyone:
Make sure your dehumidifier is working!!!
I went to the garage we rent to play some pinball, and when I walked in, the dehumidifier was off. (Haven't been there for about two weeks) Ran back to the back room where TBL lives, and found this moldy, rusty mess. I want to cry...
The other games there have some light mold on the cabinets, but the mechanisms seems to be in much better shape than Lebowski. I guess the plating isn't as good as it used to be.
Currently disassembling the cabinet for mold removal / sealing the bottom MDF. The graphics / black portions of the cabinet don't have anything on them. Around the outside of the head had some light mold on the edges of the wood where it is painted.
After the mold is taken care of, I have to figure out what I'm going to do with all the mechanisms. Looks like a game that sat next to the ocean for 20 years. I'm absolutely heartbroken
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Oh man what a bummer

#43 78 days ago

WTF ... good luck renovating this game ! Seems you have to galvanize all new ....

#44 78 days ago

wow, looks like the old sega games, crap metals.

#45 78 days ago

Now it looks like a barn find!

#46 78 days ago

I'd still buy it! lol So love this title.

#47 78 days ago

That is really sad. What a bummer.

On another note, I was able to get my main board back up and running. Replaced the transistors and led for the insert light. What a horrible design and execution on the connections/board system on this game. I'll update part numbers and photos of the repair.

-1
#48 78 days ago

What is the price as-is for the mold/rust bucket?

#49 77 days ago

didnt realize Pennsylvania was that swampy? mine isnt showing any sign of problems like that.

3 weeks later
-2
#50 56 days ago

In all Honesty???!

What are the chances this game gets
Built ???

It really Sucks this game won’t be picked up
By a company in the US and crank em
Out ?

I’d buy 2 if I had too

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