(Topic ID: 254803)

"A" Interlock Relay Pictures Needed

By redrock

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by redrock
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    DSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPG
    AX (resized).jpg
    Switches (resized).jpg
    DSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPG
    DSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPG

    #1 4 years ago

    I have posted a number of times asking for help with this issue so I won't repeat everything.

    I am going to rebuild the six switches for my 1973 Gottlieb King Pin 'A' relay and would ask if anybody would be kind enough to take a few pictures of this assembly. (There might be other Gottliebs from around Dec. 1973 but I don't know.) The pictures would help verify that I'm doing the rebuilding correctly.

    Any help would be appreciated; I have worked on this for months now.

    #2 4 years ago

    hey I can do it for you.. but let me ask a question because I just fixed my A relay on my King Pin as I was having problems with it.. it is working 100% now.. what is going on with yours? maybe I can help?

    #3 4 years ago

    Wow! Another King Pin owner with 'A' problems! (I'm from California and made many trips north on the 41 to Yosemite.) It's a long story, with many posts. Sometimes the 'A would latch, sometimes not. Sometimes the motor wouldn't stop. Sometimes the zero cycle would go half way and the 'A' would not activate! Basically, before I pushed and pulled all the wires I only got one cycle of the motor, not enough to zero the score reels. The motor stopped because -- now this is hard to believe -- the switches are backwards! The schematic has the 5 closed (1 open) and they should be open at rest.

    So, as I understand, you hit the start cycle and the 'A' latches, locked in place by the 'AR' coil. So the 5 goes from open to closed. When the score reels all go to zero, 'AR' activates and the 'A' goes back to unlatched.

    From the 1975 Gottlieb Atlantis manual: (4) When "A" replay is actuated, it is locked in by the armature of "A" relay reset coil. Through closed switches the score units reset to zero through a switch on motor 1A. When all units are reset and motor 2B makes, "A" relay reset coil is actuated. This releases the armature on "A" relay and opens the switches. The reset cycle is now complete.

    The closed 'A' goes to trough and ball return switches -- not concerned now. Four go to the scoring units. (I also had scoring issues poking around.) And the last of the 5 was the motor.

    When I got the machine the power wires to the coil were off. But the wiring all looked original. But the spacer moved the long blade which was after the short blade, so it could only make break contact, not make contact.

    Honestly, after working on this for a few months, I'm getting confused and frustrated. See the attachments. Everybody thinks that the blades couldn't be the way I described. I so glade you have one and can tell me for sure what is correct.

    DSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGDSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGDSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGDSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGSwitches (resized).jpgSwitches (resized).jpg
    #4 4 years ago

    Wow sounds like a lot of issues you have going on here.. but honestly from my limited experience it usually boils down to one or two little adjustments that can make the game either function 100% or have all kinds of weird issues going on.. Anyway, I was having many of the same issues you were having with the game not resetting properly and the score reals doing some weird things etc.. I diagnosed everything I could think of on the schematic that could have been a issue, with the help of a few really knowledgeable people on this forum. I had the bottom board out of the cabinet and inspected every switch, every relay, every circuit and could still not find the cause of the interment reset issues i was having.. Then I started to really look closely at the A relay and how it was functioning. It seemed that it was functioning properly from a untrained eye, but when i started to really look closely at it it was apparent to me that the plates where only clicking about half way in and when I used my finger to move the plate some more they would then click all the way.. Also sometimes they would hang up and not click in at all when I reset the game.. So I then started to diagnose the problem and it came down to just a slight adjustment needed on how the coil sits on the housing and a few minor tweaks to the blade's to let them help the plates close properly and all my issues were then solved with regards to the reset function of the game.

    But before I did any of the I watched this video to really help me understand how the plates needed to actually move, ( starting at around the 3 minute mark of the video) which was a big help to me..

    I will look at my A relay tonight and take some pics and we can compare switchology, however from looking at the pics they seem ok to me..

    #5 4 years ago

    Thanks for your post. Clay's video is for the 'AX' relay. How similar is this to my 'A'? Is yours an 'A'?

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from redrock:

    Thanks for your post. Clay's video is for the 'AX' relay. How similar is this to my 'A'? Is yours an 'A'?

    Hi, its similar in the sense that the way the plates should click in and the switches be adjusted. do your plates on the A relay click in all the way nice and crisp when you lift one by hand or is there a little resistance and they are not clicking in all the way? Mine were like this until I adjusted them.

    #7 4 years ago

    The only sound was the coil latching. My A relay doesn’t have the plastic ladder but uses round spacers that make no noise. I still think that the switches should not be closed at no power, which is why it’s so important for me to see an actual A relay. I guess there are few of these since most people have the AX type.

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from redrock:

    I still think that the switches should not be closed at no power

    Maybe you're all over this but interlock relays hold their last position indefinitely until the next time one of the coils fires. The interlock is mechanical so the relay state doesn't change when the game is shut off or unplugged. Only a short pulse to the appropriate coil can overcome the mechanical interlock.

    A short video comparing a few relay types including an interlock relay is at https://www.funwithpinball.com/exhibits/small-boards#Relays

    /Mark

    #9 4 years ago

    Thanks for all the help. I know it's a hassle to remove the glass and raise the playfield, but I need to see the relay of a working machine in the unlatched state. 'A' would be best but 'AX' might help. My relay doesn't correspond with the schematic of 5A and 1B and it can't be changed.

    DSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGDSCF0794cr_2 (resized).JPGAX (resized).jpgAX (resized).jpg

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-interlock-relay-pictures-needed?hl=tscottn and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.