A Game Possessed By Satan

(Topic ID: 171037)

A Game Possessed By Satan


By Pauz21

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Hazoff
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    aStraight-Flush-Tip (resized).jpg
    aPost-Time-Work1 (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg

    #1 2 years ago

    Anyone ever get a game that cannot be fixed? I've fixed a number of games... never major major issue but I have brought two EM's back from the dead. 2 years ago I picked up a machine and did a custom art package on it for a gift for someone. It was an old EM (1970 Williams 3 Jokers) and was having issues when I got it. I spent every waking moment on that flaming pile of sh-t until the day it was presented to make it work right.

    It was given to them... working... kind of.

    And I've gone there a number of times to get it kicking again since. Yesterday I finally said screw it... I'm picking this thing up... bringing it home and it's not leaving until it works. But did I mention it's a flaming pile of sh-t that has been possessed by the anti-christ?

    I've never worked on a machine that has literally brought a grown man to tears with frustration.

    I just don't know what to do. I feel like I should just go back to step 1 and start over.

    #2 2 years ago

    Well, start by describing what the problems are. Or even better--post a video of what's happening.

    #3 2 years ago

    Hmmm pinball business idea. Pinball exorcism service

    #4 2 years ago

    Not nice but I couldn't help but laugh. Sometimes ya just have to walk away and try again next weekend.
    Mike

    Quoted from Pauz21:

    I've never worked on a machine that has literally brought a grown man to tears with frustration.

    #5 2 years ago

    YEP! Got a Gottlieb Jumping Jack for a good deal once. Never could get that dang thing to work....of course it's never a good sign when you see lamp cord that doesn't belong, coils and relays from a bally, and other hacks! Spent a week on the dang thing and said, screw it! Sold it to the next guy and said good luck!

    That being said, there are times when you can walk away, come back and say, "Oh crap, there it is"! Had a screw go under a jones plug one time on the bottom board and it would vibrate back and forth causing the weirdest issues!

    Like ForceFlow said, take a video...would love to see what it's doing.

    #6 2 years ago

    Hi Pauz21 +
    I wonder what the issues were when You got the "3 Jokers" - You fixed them and THEN: NEW issues or "OLD issues showing-up again" ? IF (if) an preowner has set every switch on the relays to "switch works at this time" --- BUT adjusted the switches so there is NO Self-Cleaning (when playing the pin): After some weeks / months: Contact-Points are corroded again and the switch(es) must be cleaned again --- and again - and again ...

    OR have / has the pin this type of "fault(s)": The fabric of the insulation on ALL wires is "corroded / has deteriorated" - the insulation flocks-off - we / You must make a "rewiring" here and then there and and and - every time we move a bundle of wires a bit to the side: INSIDE that bundle insulation flocks-off - AGAIN some faulty connection.

    This actually happened to a friend of mine - he bought an "Liberty Belle" and asked another friend (our pinball-doctor) to restore the pin. The pinball-doctor worked for hours and hours - new faults and new faults ... they ended up with buying another "Liberty Belle" and taking ONLY the Playfield of "Liberty-Belle-1" (beeing more beautyful) making one Liberty Belle (running) and parting-out the rest. Greetings Rolf

    P.S.: What kind of faults were / are in the "3 Jokers" ?

    #7 2 years ago

    LOL I have one of those... a jungle princess took almost 6 weeks of daily tinkering... now there is one last and final fix I need to do BUT I am afraid to touch it... LOL seems like every time I try and fix one problem 2 more arise... been playing great for a month now. I have been considering trying the one final fix.

    Good luck... I called mine the machine from hell

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pauz21:

    Anyone ever get a game that cannot be fixed?

    Kind of the opposite situation of possession. My husband is convinced our TZ has "healed itself" twice.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Well, start by describing what the problems are. Or even better--post a video of what's happening.

    Here's the help thread from Nov/Dec 2014 when I first got this bastard.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1st-em-tech-help-broken-promise/page/2

    Before clicking on it though... let me update you on where it IS, before you read where it was and the very stages of completion I managed to get it to two years ago.

    The constant problem for the last two years has been the outhole kicking a ball out and making the stepper step down on the ball count. My focus had always been on the Eject relay.

    You see this machine has a bit of a process to kicking out a ball. The Eject relay locks on which first reduces the ball stepper, then activates the centre drain stopper coil to get it to draw it back in, then the outhole coil kicks a ball out. It was almost as if there wasn't enough pull on the eject relay to lock it on. It would just kind of click on, click off quick before the motor got to the stage of kicking out a ball.

    So for probably a year I was constantly adjusting and cleaning the switches on the Eject relay and the score motor. Sometimes it would work for a week or two then do the same thing. Other times it would work once or twice then back to normal.

    So when I brought it home the other day I decided to start looking at other things before I went back and beat the same dead horse I've been smacking around for 2 years. I looked at the ball count stepper. I looked a little dirty so I cleaned the disc. Very shortly... the outhole seemed to be working, the (5000 point score seemed to be working and the saucer score and checkout seemed to be working.) Those last two things although not mentioned yet, also seem to go when the outhole goes.

    But, like always with this game... 1 fix comes at the expense of two more problems. Now... when I start again, it's not resetting. The score reels reset, but the game either continues to click the reset relay and nothing happens, or it starts clicking the down stepper on the ball unit endlessly. It won't add the balls back up to 3 and start a game. And if it does add balls occasionally it's always 1 short. 3 ball game starts at 2, 5 ball game starts at 4. But 99% of the time it won't step up any balls at all. And as a result...while it will kick out a ball when it drains it's not reducing the number of balls you have each time and the game over relay never comes on.

    The other issue I have is incredibly lousy pop bumpers. I'm going to order new coils and sleeves to see if it will help but even with the game high tapped the pop bumpers are embarrassingly weak. And one will not score a 10 pt score when not lit no matter how many times I clean/adjust it.

    #10 2 years ago

    Hi Pauz21
    I do not know if this topic is "to articulate some frustration" --- or "talking about faults in a pin and how to fix them".
    In Your post-1 You write "have fixed a number of games" so I assume You know how to read the schematics and look-up stuff in the pin.

    Quite often when (Replay-Game) the "Ball-Count-Unit" is not stepped up (ADD-A-Ball-Game: Not stepped down) as the pin gives another ball: The Ball-Index-Relay is faulty - either faulty not activated when You make some points - or not pull-in and stay pulling (fault in Self-Hold-Circuitry) - or the "Switch on Ball-Index-Relay needed for the information 'ball before has been played' - this switch is faulty not closed (((Yes, relay does steady pull - but switch is open)))".

    I assume the "Eject-Relay" Your talking about --- You mean "Outhole-Relay" (?).
    ipdb unfortunately has not many schematics to ADD-A-Ball pins, the closest in time I could find is the "Post Time". To "us really look-up" You'd have to show snippets of the schematics.

    In the EM-Tech-Forum I learned - "YES, very rare - but can happen": A wire (metal) brakes inside the insulation (fabric) - we do not see it, now and then we have connection --- and at other times we do not have connection. Greetings Rolf

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Pauz21
    I do not know if this topic is "to articulate some frustration" --- or "talking about faults in a pin and how to fix them".
    In Your post-1 You write "have fixed a number of games" so I assume You know how to read the schematics and look-up stuff in the pin.
    Quite often when (Replay-Game) the "Ball-Count-Unit" is not stepped up (ADD-A-Ball-Game: Not stepped down) as the pin gives another ball: The Ball-Index-Relay is faulty - either faulty not activated when You make some points - or not pull-in and stay pulling (fault in Self-Hold-Circuitry) - or the "Switch on Ball-Index-Relay needed for the information 'ball before has been played' - this switch is faulty not closed (((Yes, relay does steady pull - but switch is open)))".
    I assume the "Eject-Relay" Your talking about --- You mean "Outhole-Relay" (?).
    ipdb unfortunately has not many schematics to ADD-A-Ball pins, the closest in time I could find is the "Post Time". To "us really look-up" You'd have to show snippets of the schematics.
    In the EM-Tech-Forum I learned - "YES, very rare - but can happen": A wire (metal) brakes inside the insulation (fabric) - we do not see it, now and then we have connection --- and at other times we do not have connection. Greetings Rolf

    Hey man... thanks for posting. In regards to my history of repair most of the stuff I've fixed has been early solid states. This was my first EM. I've gotten two since. I've fixed up an Aces High and brought a Drop a Card back from a barn covered in birdsh=t to working 100% in a week. Those two... I did without schematics. Truthfully, my ability to read them is limited. I can get buy but I'm not the best at it. I've fixed the other two EM's primarily by using logic and just watching it do it's thing.

    The other games I've fixed up have all been solid states: Grand Lizard, Frontier, Genie, Stern Stars.

    Now on to your points:
    I have the pin set to Add a Ball mode.

    I will check the ball index relay in regards to games not ending but that wouldn't have anything to do with the original reset would it?

    And yes... I did mean the "Outhole Relay". There is also an Eject Relay in this machine as well but it's the outhole relay I was referring to.

    I'll post some pics.

    #12 2 years ago

    Here's the ball stepper. The thing that drives me crazy is the issue changes daily with this machine. I just turned it on to shoot a video of the issues. Push the star button... It resets to 0, advances to 3 balls, spits out a ball. I drained the ball three times, it goes to game over. Only issue seemed to be the motor continued to run after the game over. It's maddness. Every time I touch it the issue changes. Sometime from game to game without doing anything.

    image (resized).jpg

    #13 2 years ago

    if its really possessed by satan I know some buyers

    #14 2 years ago

    I shot a video with my iPad. Can't figure out how to post it. But if I try it now. Having done nothing. The motor runs continuously when the ball is in the trough even though the game is over. If I push the start button it resets successfully and adds 3 balls. But we're back to the beginning again as the outhole coil won't kick out a ball. It's just cycles through the three balls and to game over while in the trough or just continually tries to kick out the first ball without stepping down.

    #15 2 years ago

    Hi Pauz21
    I believe I read once in pinside "to post a video": Upload it to "Youtube" or such places - then post in pinside the LINK to that video (?).

    In post-6 I wrote about the precious "Self-Cleaning" (when we just play the pin) - the Self-Cleaning of switches on relays and units. IF (if) switches are adjusted so they do NOT do the Self-Cleaning: Every other month we may have to clean the switches - and again - and again ...

    I made a JPG and wrote information to the JPG - want to see here (?): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1965-bowl-a-strike-crazy-at-startup#post-3231326

    I once had a problem (almost driving me crazy) --- sometimes I could gain an "offered Extraball" - and some times later - it was offered but I could NOT gain it. Of course I looked FIRST at the Extraball-Relay - everything LOOKED fine.
    Then I was looking here and there and everywhere --- in the end I came back to the Extraball-Relay - I grabbed every wire and gently pulled a bit - (no friendly words): A wire had broken-off the solder-lug on the coil - wires are stiff - they stay in place SOMETIMES. But a bit of shaking / vibration during play: The broken-off end moves a bit to the side - NO connection. Playing-on - some shaking - wire moves back - connection again. It was NOT a funny experience - since then: I do not only look at the stuff - I GRAB every wire and gently pull a bit ...

    I am one of the persons who say: "To every pin there must be a paper schematics". OK - a JPG and/or PDF also is good - I simply do not like to work on a problen NOT beeing able to look-up in the schematics.
    You have written about problem "Score-Motor does turn when it should not". IF THE PIN would be an "Post Time" - I would look at (see JPG) my "marked red" stuff.
    Other example: If the problem would be "LOCK-Relay does not pull-in": I then would look at "marked orange stuff".

    Looking up in "another schematics of that time" is not pleasing - I strongly advice: Buy Yourself a paper schematics. Greetings Rolf

    aPost-Time-Work1 (resized).jpg

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Pauz21
    I believe I read once in pinside "to post a video": Upload it to "Youtube" or such places - then post in pinside the LINK to that video (?).
    In post-6 I wrote about the precious "Self-Cleaning" (when we just play the pin) - the Self-Cleaning of switches on relays and units. IF (if) switches are adjusted so they do NOT do the Self-Cleaning: Every other month we may have to clean the switches - and again - and again ...
    I made a JPG and wrote information to the JPG - want to see here (?): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1965-bowl-a-strike-crazy-at-startup#post-3231326
    I once had a problem (almost driving me crazy) --- sometimes I could gain an "offered Extraball" - and some times later - it was offered but I could NOT gain it. Of course I looked FIRST at the Extraball-Relay - everything LOOKED fine.
    Then I was looking here and there and everywhere --- in the end I came back to the Extraball-Relay - I grabbed every wire and gently pulled a bit - (no friendly words): A wire had broken-off the solder-lug on the coil - wires are stiff - they stay in place SOMETIMES. But a bit of shaking / vibration during play: The broken-off end moves a bit to the side - NO connection. Playing-on - some shaking - wire moves back - connection again. It was NOT a funny experience - since then: I do not only look at the stuff - I GRAB every wire and gently pull a bit ...
    I am one of the persons who say: "To every pin there must be a paper schematics". OK - a JPG and/or PDF also is good - I simply do not like to work on a problen NOT beeing able to look-up in the schematics.
    You have written about problem "Score-Motor does turn when it should not". IF THE PIN would be an "Post Time" - I would look at (see JPG) my "marked red" stuff.
    Other example: If the problem would be "LOCK-Relay does not pull-in": I then would look at "marked orange stuff".
    Looking up in "another schematics of that time" is not pleasing - I strongly advice: Buy Yourself a paper schematics. Greetings Rolf

    Thanks Rolf. I'm not sure if the terminology is different on that schematic but here's what I'm seeing now. I took the play field right out... and I'm just repeating the process of resetting the machine. Each time I'll manually put some points on by tapping the scoring relays and manually stepping down the balls to game over.

    Then, when I press start:

    Reset Relay Locks on:
    - Score clears
    - Balls Clear
    - and the Two way "Game Relay" is trying to latch but it looks like the trip relay is locked on so it won't latch. If I hold the latch manually it steps up to 3 balls and completes the reset.

    What would cause the trip relay on the game relay to stay on?

    But in typical fashion with this machine... I try it a few times and now it's working on it's resetting fine on it's own. Guaranteed I put the play field back in and either something else won't work or it'll work great for 4 or 5 games then go back to the issues.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Pauz21
    I believe I read once in pinside "to post a video": Upload it to "Youtube" or such places - then post in pinside the LINK to that video (?).
    In post-6 I wrote about the precious "Self-Cleaning" (when we just play the pin) - the Self-Cleaning of switches on relays and units. IF (if) switches are adjusted so they do NOT do the Self-Cleaning: Every other month we may have to clean the switches - and again - and again ...
    I made a JPG and wrote information to the JPG - want to see here (?): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1965-bowl-a-strike-crazy-at-startup#post-3231326
    I once had a problem (almost driving me crazy) --- sometimes I could gain an "offered Extraball" - and some times later - it was offered but I could NOT gain it. Of course I looked FIRST at the Extraball-Relay - everything LOOKED fine.
    Then I was looking here and there and everywhere --- in the end I came back to the Extraball-Relay - I grabbed every wire and gently pulled a bit - (no friendly words): A wire had broken-off the solder-lug on the coil - wires are stiff - they stay in place SOMETIMES. But a bit of shaking / vibration during play: The broken-off end moves a bit to the side - NO connection. Playing-on - some shaking - wire moves back - connection again. It was NOT a funny experience - since then: I do not only look at the stuff - I GRAB every wire and gently pull a bit ...
    I am one of the persons who say: "To every pin there must be a paper schematics". OK - a JPG and/or PDF also is good - I simply do not like to work on a problen NOT beeing able to look-up in the schematics.
    You have written about problem "Score-Motor does turn when it should not". IF THE PIN would be an "Post Time" - I would look at (see JPG) my "marked red" stuff.
    Other example: If the problem would be "LOCK-Relay does not pull-in": I then would look at "marked orange stuff".
    Looking up in "another schematics of that time" is not pleasing - I strongly advice: Buy Yourself a paper schematics. Greetings Rolf

    In regards to the video I don't have a you tube account... not sure I have any interest in creating one but if I get angry enough who knows. lol

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pauz21:

    Thanks Rolf. I'm not sure if the terminology is different on that schematic but here's what I'm seeing now. I took the play field right out... and I'm just repeating the process of resetting the machine. Each time I'll manually put some points on by tapping the scoring relays and manually stepping down the balls to game over.
    Then, when I press start:
    Reset Relay Locks on:
    - Score clears
    - Balls Clear
    - and the Two way "Game Relay" is trying to latch but it looks like the trip relay is locked on so it won't latch. If I hold the latch manually it steps up to 3 balls and completes the reset.
    What would cause the trip relay on the game relay to stay on?
    But in typical fashion with this machine... I try it a few times and now it's working on it's resetting fine on it's own. Guaranteed I put the play field back in and either something else won't work or it'll work great for 4 or 5 games then go back to the issues.

    Put the play field back in now and everything seems to be playing correctly. 1st game it wasn't stepping down when I lost a ball but 2nd game it played correctly. Played about 4 more and it played correctly. At the moment... the only issue is when the game is over the motor continues to run while the ball is in the trough.

    3 weeks later
    #19 2 years ago

    So... I didn't touch the game for a week. Flip it on. And the demon is back. Original problem from two years ago. Outhole doesn't kick out... motor just runs as the outhole relay clicks but won't hold.
    If you drop it in the saucer while a joker selected it scores 4000 instead of 5000 but tries weakly to kick it out and fails.
    If you drop it in the saucer with a face card selected it scores 1000 and doesn't even try to kick out.
    This is the issue I dealt with for two friggin years. Then I dragged the game back home and set it up a few weeks back, it magically disappeared and presented the issues it had when I started this thread. Such a piece of garbage.

    #20 2 years ago

    Hi Pauz21
    I wonder "is THIS topic still open, AAA" ? And we do some discussing in here --- OR: We talk in here about the problems, BBB: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-3-joker-or-straight-flush-help ?
    IF (if) we have BBB: Want to close here ? Greetings Rolf

    #21 2 years ago

    I possess MANY games.

    --Satan

    #22 2 years ago

    I bought 5 Bally bingo machines for 5 bucks each. I learned there was a reason I overpaid

    #23 2 years ago

    I'm currently dealing with Satan inhabiting my TZ. It worked fine for 6 months. I cleaned it up. It worked fine. I change a plastic ramp. It all went to hell....going on 3 + weeks on/off trying everything I can think of....ARGH!!

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Pauz21
    I wonder "is THIS topic still open, AAA" ? And we do some discussing in here --- OR: We talk in here about the problems, BBB: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-3-joker-or-straight-flush-help ?
    IF (if) we have BBB: Want to close here ? Greetings Rolf

    Yes Rolf... I posted in both because I couldn't remember which one you had been following. I don't know how to request this one be closed but I will definitely be posting follow up in the other thread.

    #25 2 years ago

    Hi Pauz21
    here the picture of a topic I would like to mark as "solved" --- see the "encircled red" text ? Greetings Rolf

    aStraight-Flush-Tip (resized).jpg

    #26 2 years ago

    "A Game Possessed By Satan" is a game I would like to own.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 239.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Tilttopper
    $ 5,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 20.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    $ 142.00
    From: $ 9.99
    $ 19.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    From: $ 15.00
    From: $ 149.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 6.95
    $ 19.95
    $ 29.25
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    The MOD Couple
    $ 25.00
    $ 9.95
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 200.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 107.95
    Lighting - Other
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 12.00
    $ 96.77
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Pinball-Mods.com
    $ 7.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
    $ 7,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 99.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside