Give it some time fellas. Iceman has to come post the letter, and then we get to hear about them not saying Predator again.
This topic is closed.
Give it some time fellas. Iceman has to come post the letter, and then we get to hear about them not saying Predator again.
Quoted from frolic:It was only 5 days ago that Heighway was dealt a bombshell when Dennis Nordman publicly quit the company. Since then Andrew Heighway has posted multiple times demonstrating that the game is progressing without him and on schedule, and what would have otherwise been a major bombshell is already old news.
OR.... you can wedge "non-buyers" against your pre-owners, secret updates, and no brand building. Which is the better way to build a company?
Question is what is the better way of building pinballs . If DN says he can't build the Alien in that quality as expected from himself within given timeline what do you think HP will do to keep the timeline he "promised". Do you expect any high quality as known from DN or do you expect more the FullThrottle quality (is looking cheap, like a amazon plastic flipper in my opinion)
That's more reason to block me to jump on the train than "inofficial communication" to pre owners from some important point in time ... especially to avoid that these silly rumor makers will repeating and repeating again same questions and trolling around. ... oooohh he didn't used PREDATOR .....
IMO, it's a poor decision to limit the flow of information. Every single person is a potential customer, even if they haven't purchased yet.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:IMO, it's a poor decision to limit the flow of information. Every single person is a potential customer, even if they haven't purchased yet.
Excellent point. Obviously these guys don't get that.
QSS
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:Excellent point. Obviously these guys don't get that.
QSS
Wow. You guys will do all you can to find something to get pissy about. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am now expecting shit like:
Email is long. "The email was way too long. He must be hiding something with all that text!!!"
Message was friendly and fun. "The email was so unprofessional. Respectful tone only, respect my money!!!"
Kevin signed with First AND Last name. "Kevin isn't being personal enough. He is clearly trying to distance himself from the people that gave him his start AND our money!"
The email said nothing about secret/confidential/VIP only. In fact, it was friendly correspondence sent to people who are on preorder list. I am sure he expected one of you to post it here anyway.
Pinside can be such a downer. No wonder Kevin doesn't spend much time here anymore.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from fastpinball:Pinside can be such a downer. No wonder Kevin doesn't spend much time here anymore.
Pinside is now like the old RGP was (Negative, most of the time). People bitching about any issue and slamming others opinions, it is unfortunate it has come to this state.
Personally, I do not see fault in any developer sending a bi-weekly update to the customers that have purchased his/her product.
Quoted from loren3233:Pinside is now like the old RGP was (Negative, most of the time). People bitching about any issue and slamming others opinions, it is unfortunate it has come to this state.
Personally, I do not see fault in any developer sending a bi-weekly update to the customers that have purchased his/her product.
Unfortunately, UNLIKE that time, there's no other alternative to get news like this.
While I'm not a VIP, I'd like to hear the progress, mainly because I *AM* interested in the title and Kevin's work.
Quoted from spfxted:You could shit gold and SOMEBODY would say your making a mess!
I am adding this to my arsenal of zingers. Love it!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from spfxted:You could shit gold and SOMEBODY would say your making a mess!
If you can do that spfxted your welcome to come over to my place anytime.
Quoted from Pinballfantexas:If you can do that spfxted your welcome to come over to my place anytime.
I'll even let you do it on my chest.
After a very heated discussion within the Moderator team, we have decided that we cannot stand in the way of information.
So with that in mind, we have decided that the only fair thing is to share a portion of the letter with Pinside. Keep in mind, that this letter exposed a very big secret. Please try your best to stay pleasant with each other as you discuss the ramifications of Kevin's letter to the Predator Pre-Buyers.
The Big Reveal ...
Marcus
Quoted from Xerico:After a very heated discussion within the Moderator team, we have decided that we cannot stand in the way of information.
So with that in mind, we have decided that the only fair thing is to share a portion of the letter with Pinside. Keep in mind, that this letter exposed a very big secret. Please try your best to stay pleasant with each other as you discuss the ramifications of Kevin's letter to the Predator Pre-Buyers.
The Big Reveal ...Marcus
12-16-2014-letter-v2.jpg 38 KB
I like it, hits on the important points and I don't see how Pinside could possibly pick this apart
Quoted from Buschjs:I like it, hits on the important points and I don't see how Pinside could possibly pick this apart
Quoted from fastpinball:Wow. You guys will do all you can to find something to get pissy about. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am now expecting shit like:
Email is long. "The email was way too long. He must be hiding something with all that text!!!"
Message was friendly and fun. "The email was so unprofessional. Respectful tone only, respect my money!!!"
Kevin signed with First AND Last name. "Kevin isn't being personal enough. He is clearly trying to distance himself from the people that gave him his start AND our money!"
The email said nothing about secret/confidential/VIP only. In fact, it was friendly correspondence sent to people who are on preorder list. I am sure he expected one of you to post it here anyway.
Pinside can be such a downer. No wonder Kevin doesn't spend much time here anymore.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
I agree with what you are saying but don't mistake paid customers for the ones that have no skin in this game.
Time to start practicing the manliest handshake in the world for when I pick up my game.
"Kevin, you sunnova bitch!"
Quoted from NinJaBooT:Frolic, your already calling in question Skitb's business savy for not posting the update on here?
No, but the desire to KEEP it off here. Well, keep it off everywhere, no facebook, no website. private email only. makes no sense. Well, business sense that is. but hey, everyone will have their games soon, so that's cool.
Quoted from frolic:No, but the desire to KEEP it off here. Well, keep it off everywhere, no facebook, no website. private email only. makes no sense. Well, business sense that is. but hey, everyone will have their games soon, so that's cool.
I'm repeating myself but I would love to know why the website is baron with mention of the Predator? I don't believe there is a licence issue yet cannot figure out why the website has nothing on it at all. Other than that I haven't received my email so no idea what's going on, it seems to be positive however.
Quoted from Hazoff:I'm repeating myself but I would love to know why the website is baron with mention of the Predator? I don't believe there is a licence issue yet cannot figure out why the website has nothing on it at all. Other than that I haven't received my email so no idea what's going on, it seems to be positive however.
I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from loren3233:Pinside is now like the old RGP was
No it's Not ,, RGP Sucked !! That's Why 3/4's of the member'z came Here 2 1/2 Yr's ago
Quoted from fastpinball:I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Thank you, I have faith in Kevin and really more than anything just want the pin in my house. I appreciate the insight. Its like Aliens, just love to go to the site and look at the same stuff over and over.
Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:No it's Not ,, RGP Sucked !! That's Why 3/4's of the member'z came Here 2 1/2 Yr's ago
Hardly RGP. Moderated well and fairly.
RGP was a friggen free for all hate fest at the end. Handful of goobers ( since they have joined Pinside now, you know who you are!!) spreading the internet love.
99% here are awesome. I found mysewlf immediately ignoring one ahole from RGP who recently joined Pinside, yeah, he was THAT bad, and another who actually had no RGP affiliation.
Hated to do it, but they forced my hand.
Quoted from Hazoff:Thank you, I have faith in Kevin and really more than anything just want the pin in my house. I appreciate the insight. Its like Aliens, just love to go to the site and look at the same stuff over and over.
Maybe someone starts a fan page?
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from fastpinball:Maybe someone starts a fan page?
Aaron
FAST Pinball
can we call it choppalove.com??
Quoted from starfighter:can we call it choppalove.com??
I believe it must be called choppalove.com
Marcus
Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:No it's Not ,, RGP Sucked !! That's Why 3/4's of the member'z came Here 2 1/2 Yr's ago
Yep I agree, and with the transfer of 3/4's of RGP member'z this has allowed for Pinside to fall the levels of the old RGP unfortunately. Three + years ago Pinside did not have the negative energy that it has now.
Thanks for the clarification
Quoted from fastpinball:Wow. You guys will do all you can to find something to get pissy about. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am now expecting shit like:
Email is long. "The email was way too long. He must be hiding something with all that text!!!"
Message was friendly and fun. "The email was so unprofessional. Respectful tone only, respect my money!!!"
Yes..the problem is this forum is filled with people who love conspiracy theories and they read too much into things, that's how all the B.S. licence stuff started. I'm very happy for the Pred owners, I think this thing is going to be a blast to play and with P-roc who knows what the hobbyist come up with, I'm very excited for you all.
Quoted from kvan99:Do tell please....
Really? Rehash the licensing idea?
Because 98% of pinside likely has that wrong, right?
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:I wish the Skit b guys the best of luck but.......the problem Wayne had is the same as every new pinball co. has.THEY DONT HAVE A FACTORY!!!You can't crank out games without some sort of assembly line
The problem with wayne was that he was a liar and a crook.
Quoted from fastpinball:Wow. You guys will do all you can to find something to get pissy about. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am now expecting shit like:
Email is long. "The email was way too long. He must be hiding something with all that text!!!"
Message was friendly and fun. "The email was so unprofessional. Respectful tone only, respect my money!!!"
Kevin signed with First AND Last name. "Kevin isn't being personal enough. He is clearly trying to distance himself from the people that gave him his start AND our money!"
The email said nothing about secret/confidential/VIP only. In fact, it was friendly correspondence sent to people who are on preorder list. I am sure he expected one of you to post it here anyway.
Pinside can be such a downer. No wonder Kevin doesn't spend much time here anymore.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
What a crock.
Hyperbole much?
This is nothing but a weak ass excuse to not post the email here. It's ridiculous. Fear that someone might make a post in some way critical of the email? Wah!
whiny.jpgHere is the email from Kevin that was posted in the other thread:
Good evening, fellow pinballers, I bet you thought I forgot about starting up this bi-weekly newsletter, huh? Lots going on over here, as usual, so let's get everyone caught up to speed, shall we?
While we've been slammin' away and getting games ready, nothing can be expected to go off without a surprise or two. Ok, I'll admit there have been a lot more than two, but we've been able to work through the majority of them without much trouble along the way. Currently we are only hung up on two relatively small things, but they are very integral to proper game operation. Firstly, we ran into a bit of a snag with the speaker panels we were going to use, so I've been working with the guys over at VirtuaPin to come up with a more modern and aesthetically appealing panel and it won't be slowing us down for long. This kind of thing is in their blood, and they've done an awesome job so far.
Second item is our custom ball trough. While it is something I'm pretty excited for (and trust me, I could write whole paragraphs about it, but I'll spare you all), it is a pretty complicated part that has a lot of dependencies that have to be absolutely perfect to be trusted for the lifetime of a pinball machine, and with all of the help and guidance from the folks at Pinball Life, I'm sure it will do all of that and much more. Trust me, I've been trying to break this thing for weeks and it just won't give! That being said, to keep things moving, we're going to move a handful of games with a more industry standard part that will be a drop-in replacement down the road. I've spoken with a few of the guys at the front of the line about this and all seems well to keep the momentum up, but if you're one of the first-ups and would like the part replaced with our custom trough after they start coming in, this will obviously be handled without any extra charges or anything. Then again, if you're a hardcore collector, I guess this is as close as we're going to come to an "LE," so it might be fun to hang on to it. Ya' never know!
It's a pretty hectic time for indie developers right now, but to be sure it must be a nearly nail-biting experience for the supporters and early adopters in the scene at this time. I'd like to think that we wouldn't need to take time in these newsletters to address rumors and such, but during these tense times I'm sure a little reassurance would go a long way, especially for those of you who hadn't caught up with us on the forums a few weeks ago. While there haven't been any direct fingers pointed, there are a lot of worries that the new indie movement in pinball is ripe with opportunities for unethical situations and is causing some general unrest in a part of the industry that we're most definitely included in, so it would be good for all involved for us to address a few things.
Licensing is obviously a big deal, and while these types of things have simply been accepted in the past, indie pinball (yes, I'm going to keep calling it that) is potentially a completely different beast altogether. Gathering copyright and likeness permissions is a huge, daunting process, but is very rewarding in the end. That being said, this is something you need to have reasonably taken care of before making any major announcements or commitments, and we've done a lot of work and spent countless hours making sure everyone involved is happy with how things turned out. I have many stories I could tell here, but I think I will wait until a time when there's a little less actual news to catch up on At any rate, I can see how one might wonder if a small indie startup would be able to handle this sort of task, but it is certainly not an issue over here. Don't expect any wild omissions or absences when you open up your first Skit-B new-in-box!
Some folks give me a particularly hard time for "plugging" other companies or products, and I'm likely not going to stop any time soon. P-ROC is awesome. Marco Specialties is awesome. Spooky is awesome. I say this kind of stuff all the time, but there's one company that deserves a huge "plug" that doesn't come up very often but is at the heart of everything we do and how it relates to you all, and that is PayPal. I know, I know, now I'm essentially giving a plug for the bank, but I promise it is relative (again, especially if you hadn't caught up with us on the forums a few weeks ago). While we're on the unfortunate subject of potentially unethical opportunities, I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that your investments are safe. Through the conventions that we've worked through with PayPal, not only do you get the inherent internet benefit of buying pinball in your underwear (raise your hand if you've bought pinball in your underwear before the internet...anyone?), but it comes with monumental security benefits that guarantee that, no matter what happens, your investment is never at any kind of risk. They're taking a big risk on us that they never had to take, and for that they deserve some sincere appreciation.
Speaking of risks, I've come to understand that a few guys on the forums have a running bet going on that involves us. I'm not 100% in-the-know here, but as I understand it, the wager goes a little something like this: Two parties have come up with an embarrassing garment to be worn by the other party to the Midwest Gaming Classic coming up in April. If we don't get a game out by the end of the year, one party has to wear the embarrassing garment, but if we do, the other party has to wear the embarrassing garment (ugh that's getting annoying typing out 'embarrassing garment' over and over). I don't want to share names--even though I only know one of the parties--but, as long as it's alright with the gentlemen involved, I will be throwing my name into that hat, as well. While we are going at absolute break-neck speed to make sure our first boxes say 2014 on them, we can't PROMISE anyone a game within the next few weeks. That being said, I CAN promise that if someone ends up losing a bet because of it, I can at least share in that misery a bit. Worst that can happen is I end up looking stupid, but if we don't get some games out soon I'm gonna end up looking kind of stupid anyways. Might as well own it, right?
No progress update would be complete without a few pictures, so let's start with the fun stuff: the toys! Matt over at Back Alley Creations has really outdone himself with the creation of such lifelike adornments that really drive the point home of what it means to be hunted.
This week's eye candy:
(For some reason my phone won't let me transfer pictures so I'll post them as soon as I can)
That was a very good post by Skit-B. If this was a regular thing perhaps there wouldn't be so much unrest.
And he didn't even have to "shit gold", just a couple of minutes behind the keyboard.
QSS
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:That was a very good post by Skit-B. If this was a regular thing perhaps there wouldn't be so much unrest.
And he didn't even have to "shit gold", just a couple of minutes behind the keyboard.
QSS
I don't know man. I think everyone's Predator's are going to be delayed by at least an hour since he took the time away from building games to write that email!
Non-buyer here.
Once again, no mention of the word "Predator" but the simple fact that there's communication and that Kevin has said that all systems are go, should provide enough comfort for all involved.
I expect that most everyone is understanding of any and all issues that arise and slow down progress.
All it takes is a little info from time to time.
Happy for you guys, finally.
Quoted from RobT:What a crock.
Hyperbole much?
This is nothing but a weak ass excuse to not post the email here. It's ridiculous. Fear that someone might make a post in some way critical of the email? Wah!whiny.jpg 8 KB
That is exactly why Rob. Exactly. So wah, wah, wah.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:IMO, it's a poor decision to limit the flow of information. Every single person is a potential customer, even if they haven't purchased yet.
Quoted from fastpinball:Wow. You guys will do all you can to find something to get pissy about. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
FAST Pinball
Aaron/fastpinball, I think Wolfmarsh made an excellent point. I myself am in the market for a new pin in 2015 and I've considered Predator, I've considered MMR, I've considered AMH, and I loved The Big Lebowski. JPop might have been in the picture a while back if it wasn't so damn much money and The Hobbit is high on the list of potentials too. Of course Stern is always a good option.
What it all boils down to is that I am a potential customer with money to spend and the communication by Skit-B and Jpop has absolutely been lacking AND because their communication is so deficient I am no longer a potential customer of theirs now or going forward (unless they make a dramatic/lasting change). Perhaps in a second hand market but never as an initial purchaser.
Gene from PPS and Jack from JJP might be somewhat challenged when it comes to PR but at least they provide information, good and bad for all to digest. Ben Heck and the gang at Spooky Pinball are shaping up to be gods and justifiably so.
If the guys at Skit-B and Jpop are really interested in building and selling machines today and into the future AND growing their businesses they should learn basic customer orientated communication skills.
I don't think I was getting "pissy". I think I was offering some sound perspective and business advice which is coming from a very successful person in the business world.
They can take it or leave it and so can you.
QSS
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:I myself am in the market for a new pin in 2015 and I've considered Predator, I've considered MMR, I've considered AMH, and I loved The Big Lebowski. JPop might have been in the picture a while back if it wasn't so damn much money and The Hobbit is high on the list of potentials too. Of course Stern is always a good option.
There is one thing you may have not realized about Predator that is distinctly different than all the other options you list... Predator is currently sold out. You can possibly get on the wait list but by the sounds of it you will still need another person to bail for you to get one first hand.
I am not saying their communication strategy is good or bad for business but am pointing out that that is one very different thing that should be factored in to your considerations.
This topic is closed.
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