(Topic ID: 200173)

A dark night for Stern

By jfh

6 years ago


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  • 2,022 posts
  • 316 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by jfh
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#72 6 years ago
Quoted from Dr_Smith:

I refuse to buy a game with unfinished code from Gary ever again as I have zero faith that it will ever get done in a timely manner... or even finished at all. I despise having someone take my money just to put me on a back burner while they work on other new projects. To me that's a slap in the customers face. Then to have the audacity to expect me to hop on the bandwagon and shell out money for the next latest and greatest when he still hasn't completed his original obligation to me is the epitome of absurdity.

They are releasing so many games (recently with alpha and beta code) that they can no longer meet the future commitments they have made with regard to code updates.

What you see is what you get now with them so only buy based on what you see and not on the blind hope of what will come - those days are over and the most you can expect is that they might get to 1.0 someday. Too many games to have any expectation that a programmer will do it on his own time out of love like was done sometimes in the past.

#117 6 years ago

Stern is not going out of business as they have 90+% of the market share today.

Buyers won't see code updates like they used to get from Stern because of at least these four reasons:

1. They are making 3 new and 1 vault each year so programmers are under pressure to always work on the next game instead of working on past titles.

2. They are releasing games with alpha and beta code now so work into code updates is just to get it to 1.0 and not to polish level like before (TWD, MET).

3. They have an increasing number of games they are behind on with regard to code so they are spreading themselves thinner and thinner because there are limited programmer resources. They over promised here (wrt code updates) and can no longer catch up.

4. Programmers can no longer be expected to polish code on their own time. Times have changed and there is always a focus toward the next game so little free time left.

#123 6 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

The excuses are irrelevant. The bottom line is the enthusiast community no longer has any faith that Stern titles will ever get finished, and as a result are becoming increasingly more hesitant to buy them.
And instead of reassuring the community, Stern's response is that pinball enthusiasts are unimportant to them.

I'm in agreement.

My main point is that consumers are still buying thinking that Stern will (eventually) update every game they sell to a level of polish of TWD (say) and I'm saying don't hold your breath as times have changed.

#131 6 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

90% of the market? It appears CGC and JJP combined will be around ~8k machines this year. Excluding all other machine sales, that would imply sales of 72k machines for Stern.
Do you actually believe that?
There's no way they've kept 50% of the market this year. I think Stern stated shortly after their move to the new premises, that were they to be flat out and the place fully utilised, they could do 10-12k machines a year. That point has not been reached.

OK fine maybe you're right - this is the figure I keep hearing everyone toss around.

What do you estimate is their sales market share? (Serious question)

11
#222 6 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Everyone here should want both companies to improve and do well. That's not going to happen unless we can acknowledge the obstacles toward that goal. Nobody is absolutely right or wrong here and neither company is perfect.

This is a very important post and I agree 100%. Others seem to confuse the fact that we are critical sometimes with wanting a company to fail or having some kind of sport-team loyalty to one company or the other.

We are critical of Stern because we want them to succeed not because we want them to fail. When DI was first shown, I and others complained about the man holding cell phone art on side of the backbox and to their credit, JJP changed it. To attribute every comment down to us being fanboys is kind of missing the point about how much we care about the industry in general. We want as many companies as possible to succeed.

#675 6 years ago
Quoted from Banker:

IMO stern is following a straightforward path to sell the company. They are taking advantage of recent pricing increases , and at the same time, drastically reducing the cost of each pin . Stern has greater buying power than all other makers,
and for about $150/ pin , could produce a far superior product that would satisfy all markets. The choice to maximize
the short term profits/ pin, rather than spend a small cost/ pin to dominate all markets, reflects a pattern utilized by
all company’s seeking a buyer. I own 32 Sterns , and resent the rapid reduction in quality , regarding each new pin.

They are definately thinking very short term lately so prepping for a company sale would make sense. Seems like they don't care anymore about their reputation amongst the collector community as they didn't even bring it up and addressed zero quality/code issues (watch their talk on twitch deadflip).

Well if this sale rumor is true, they better sell their company soon as I think they are accelerating a shift in the collector market - compare SW LE with JJPOTC at about the same price. Collectors at some point are not dumb enough to keep buying Stern LEs when even the shaker motor has now been removed.

#746 6 years ago

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12
#811 6 years ago

Just say 'NO' 'til 1.0. Make the pledge.

#977 6 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

When he sees that Groot on a spring, it'll be 100% for sure he gets one
QSS

Hah, yeah and then immediately order Groot Spring cover mod and he'll be good to go (was originally included but got cut due to high costs):

https://mezelmods.com/products/star-wars-pinball-tie-fighter-spring-cover

#1118 6 years ago

Let me summarize two positions people are taking above:

A. Stern's quality is decreasing over the last few years so let's discuss specific issues and concerns and how this will play out in the future.

B. Pinball is difficult and all manufacturers have made mistakes so A is invalid and if you take position A then you are a Stern basher.

Is it only me that thinks that B is a ridiculous position to take against A?

#1301 6 years ago

I hear what you're saying pinsanity - you make some good points.

One of his points he is making (for those of you who don't get it) is that the current market has been/is sustained by the fact that we collectors can get almost all our investments back when we sell. A market like this can withstand (and this is why we have seen) rapid price increases. In other words, if you buy a pin for $10,000 say and can sell it for $9,000 6mo later say then all that is lost is $1000 (& some potential investment gains say). If the initial price was $5000 and 6mo later you sell for $4000, it's about the same loss. If you have to sell your $10,000 pin for $5,000 then this is a whole other story and this can have a tremendous impact on whether or not people buy NIB.

#1303 6 years ago

Pinball machines are just stuff like anything else and are not immune to the fundamentals of economics. Yes, more people are coming in the hobby but supply is rapidly increasing as well to meet that demand. Don't kid yourself that we will always have a market like this.

Changes in this market, when they come, may have nothing to do with larger economy.

#1318 6 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

With today's GOTG reveal, anyone have thoughts on why Stern didn't show the game at Expo?
1) Game not ready.
2) Code still alpha.
3) Bad PR to announce anything before a Batman code drop
4) unfavorable comparison between $9k GOTC LE and $9.5K POTC LE
5) something else?

All of the above. This way they have more control and so don't have to answer any questions like "did -hewhosenamecannolongerbespoken- work on it and if so, what were his contributions?" or "what version is the code?".

It might be that in the future, given their decreasing focus on collector market (did you watch Stern Expo talk?), that we might see less and less focus or even skipping of releases entirely at shows. It has its advantages for them given the direction they are taking the company and issues they are dealing with.

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