As you know, I respect your opinions/knowledge, but have to disagree on The Hobbit. It's a stunning game to look at, but I really don't like the way it shoots. I don't have enough time to criticize the rules, however the layout is really uninspiring the me. As you know, I just took delivery of a Dialed-In...shoots so much nicer! For me, without a interesting shots, a game is hard to warm up to...

Star Wars isn't a grail theme for me. I recently picked up an LE because it was convenient (local collector was selling).

After playing 50 games, I couldn't disagree more with your critique. Not a re-themed racing game! Sure, the Hyperdrive mechanism riffs on supercharger from Highspeed 2, but that's cool! Steve Ritchie designed it...that's a virtue!

If after playing 50 games, you are still disappointed, I'll be surprised.

snaroff

Both companies build products I love (most recently, DILE & SWLE).

One point that's hard to dispute is Stern builds their products with a calculator and JJP doesn't. Stern fans argue that's why they are the 10,000lb. gorilla in the pinball industry. Maybe, but it still doesn't feel great when you are a loyal customer.

Not much difference in price between DILE/SWLE, however DILE is a feast for the senses (and SWLE, not so much). Don't get me wrong, both are a lot of fun. I just think that Stern/Spike are more focused on margins and less about giving us the most for our buck.

snaroff

Agreed. I've been more of a Premium guy...never "got" the Stern LE model. The only reason I have SWLE is I picked it up from a local collector for very close to the price of a Premium.

The AFMr LE model is very collector friendly...motivated me pulling the trigger on one a few days ago. The topper is sick and worth the price of admission.

I still need to push back on equating JJP and Stern in terms of both building game with a calculator. Everything is relative, and Stern is clearly more aggressive when it comes to BOM costs. Sure, they have more overhead, but they also have more buying power with their suppliers! JJP is clearly giving people much more for their money. The trick for both is providing a game that's fun. Despite SWLE's starkness, it's still a blast to play (and will likely get better as they approach v1.0 code).

snaroff

I've never seen dimpling like that. I own an SWLE and the CC looks awesome (thought I have less than 100 plays on mine). The build quality on the LE is as good as any Stern I've purchased in the past 5 years.

I understand the knee jerk reaction regarding the BOM, however the hyperdrive and LCD are expensive PF "toys". The hyperdrive is amazing. I just had a great game and Tie Fighter MB is awesome. The images and original sound track are also incredible. Call outs are sparse, but I'm told that's going to improve.

If my PF ends up looking like your photo, it will suck.

snaroff

I've also never had Stern reset problems. If Spike machines are still using cheap power supplies OEM's in China, then maybe some power supplies are flaky? Who knows.

snaroff

Was the PF you posted from a "Pro"? Curious.

snaroff

It is shocking that Stern can't send registered product owners an email. I'm sure there are many owners that aren't on Pinside.

snaroff

I've had great experience with the Stern folks as well. They are very responsive and have taken care of me for almost 15 years (my first 2 NIB pins were LOTR & TSPP).

From my perspective, discussing NIB pin problems isn't "wasting time" if you stick to the problems/solutions. I recently purchased my first JJP pin and wrote about my issues (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96). Many DI owners sent me PM's thanking me for the post. The post helps folks with similar problems and hopefully provides some useful feedback to the pinball manufacturer.

JJP support folks have been helpful with sending me low level parts, but JJP management has been incredibly unresponsive when compared with Stern.

snaroff

Using specific examples is difficult...I've owned MANY Sterns over 15 years and purchased my first JJP pin on 10/26 (DILE).

Logistically speaking, I expect a company to return phone calls and emails in a timely fashion. What do I consider timely? 1 week. I sent JJP management a cordial email on my DILE issues on 11/18 and never received a response. Today, I'm happy to report Jack sent me an email to discuss my issues. I'm hopeful we will arrive at a win/win resolution.

I sent Stern management an email on 12/7 and received a response on 12/7...5 hours later IIRC. I was having some issues with my recently purchased AS. I also wanted to bend management's ear on the ridiculous pegs they continue to ship (since it effected my ability to repair the damaged flipper I received).

Just to be clear, both JJP support (Frank, Steve) and Stern support (Pat) are responsive. No issues on getting simple parts ordered. I'm talking about responsiveness on issues that aren't easily handled by the guys in the support trenches.

snaroff

Stern should have plenty of incentive. CGC, JJP, and Spooky are producing some really nice games. AFMr (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afmr-an-le-that-feels-like-an-le), DI, and TNA are all pretty sweet. American Pinball also looks promising. All these companies are competing for the same slots in pinball lineups.

From my perspective, belly aching about Stern on Pinside is therapy, but unlikely to have an impact. If you want bend Stern's ear on an issue, contact Stern's leaders directly. I've been a loyal customer for over 15 years and my attitude about Stern products has changed over time, however they do respect solid feedback from loyal customers. I recently bent their ear on an issue and believe they were very receptive to my feedback.

snaroff

Yep. I took a 2 year break from new pinball purchases since my KISS Premium purchase in 2015.

I recently purchased DILE, AFMrLE, SWLE, and AS Pro. The Stern games had the least problems, by a significant margin. SWLE has been flawless and AS Pro needed some minor flipper adjustments and was missing the rubber inserts on the BB (no big deal).

Despite having issues with my DILE, it is a stunning pinball machine and my favorite of the four (with SWLE a very close second). Here is a post that details most of my issues (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96). From my perspective, this is a reminder that quality is ultimately about how much pleasure you get from something, not simply a measure of build quality. Of course, for folks that don't like to take the glass off, build quality is much more critical. The tweaks I made to DILE could not have been done by a newbie or unmotivated owner...

snaroff

Yep. A few years ago, I had a problem with an older Miele vacuum. I asked the repair person if it was worth fixing and he said "hell yeah", they don't make them like this anymore (and he actually sold new models). Really honest guy that fixed my vacuum for almost nothing. Could have told me it was junk and sold me a new one!

One of the biggest purchases any of us makes is homes, and craftsmanship in most parts of the country suck. Same for most furniture. All things considered, pinball isn't in such a bad place.

snaroff

I agree. In 2004, I walked into a "Sharper Image" store with a LOTR on display. I was totally consumed with work and pinball fell off my radar screen entirely. When I saw the LOTR, I couldn't believe how awesome it was. Didn't realize new titles were even being produced. Ended up looking up a distributor and buying one soon after (the Sharper Image Retail "tax" was silly). So rather than fancy traditional marketing with commercials/ads, the more opportunities for folks to "bump into" a game, the better for sales. When non pinball folks visit my home, most of them are unaware pinball machines are even being produced.

snaroff

Stern adopted some great Keith Elwin "R&D" (from the "Archer" project) when they decided to hire him. This gave Stern a big leg up and most definitely contributed to the polish we rarely see from Stern out of the gate. Hopefully Stern paid Keith for the R&D prior to hiring him...he certainly deserves it!

snaroff