I think Stern doesn't care about me, I sent several messages about code bugs and didn't even get a reply as if the message went straight in the trash can.

I had bought 4 NIB Stern pins in around 24 month period Tron, XMLE, STLE and IM VE and since then nothing. I believe 3.5 years off Stern. I have bought second hand Stern (Met pro, AcDc pre, TWD pro, LotR, SM and Tspp) but have avoided any way to support the actual company of Stern since they have been giving paying customers the cold shoulder. Also the code was completed and the second hand games and were good values mostly priced less than $5K except AcDc premium.

I say Stern doesn't care about me, Stern doesn't exist to me and I don't exist to Stern. But the thing is if any more people would follow my example and just stop buying Stern pins. Say Stern makes GOTG and it has as much on the PF as SW and it's code is as complete as BM66. Just don't buy it. Stern will sell 300 units or some number but they may get the point and take some action and listen to their customers.

I said Stern should have a website with a suggestion box where we could put suggestions and they would actually read the suggestions not just throw them in the trash.

I was never going to buy BM66 (joke at that price) but from what I've read of the code as well as Kiss code, cabinet splitting insert ghosting, general sloppiness it's an embarrassment. I don't hope Stern goes out of business, but I do hope they change their practices.

First thing should be price cuts, code completions, put back in basic features like PF supports, make sure the cabinets don't separate, the decals don't fall off the inserts don't ghost the clear doesn't flake off etc..

$5K $6K and $7K that's a good place to start.

I would wager that a $15K BM66 SLE would be hard pressed to sell for $8K today.

Hopefully Stern can understand Pinside is part of their market. I’m not sure they get the message yet, didn’t they have a PR guy about commitment to code and was abandoned without any change in practice. Only lip service.

I’m supporting Spooky and JJP.

Have you seen the thread of ST pro with 11,000 plays on location? That pin is completely paid for itself and can be sold for $3700+ (estimate).

Not every pin is breaking down.

I have been to one barcade that is somewhat local but it's really one hour drive each way so it's not really convenient to me, so I don't go unless I want to play a game like DI. But really they may not be set up well, they had a Met which the hammer didn't work so it was pointless. I mean I have a mint condition Met in my basement. Also it's hard to hear the games because they don't set the volume too lout but with JJP games you could at least bring your own headphones.

but in my area (30-40 minute drive) there is no point on location.

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DI won’t outsell Woz.

I quit Stern prior to any Spike games as well. But as I stated earlier it was due to the code issues and lack of communications and lack of response from Stern.

I had both STLE and XMLE that both germinated for a good part of 12-24 months with subpar code and even when finished they were not as good as I thought was possible (no Lyman magic because he was not involved).

Anyway..

If you want to see if Stern sells to Pinside ( a good number) just look at the owners of the various pins Metallica all three versions is 1319 owners which is more than Williams IJ and a lot more than CFTBL and only surpassed by some of the truly heavy sellers like TZ and TAF.

But specifically look at two pins XMLE and Tron LE those sold 550 and 400 units respectively and there are no premium versions so we know the real numbers sold. Pinside accounts for 231 (XM) and 215 (Tron)

thats *almost* half of the LEs of the two most recent pins Stern sold LE only. If I go back farther to BSM and Avatar LE there is not as much of a obvious link since only 26% of Avatar LE sold are listed as owned and even less BSM.

So while Stern may indeed sell more pro pins, they probably sell more LE pins to this market and as you see with Metallica Pinside owning 1300 that is not an insignificant number

Also this is missing people on Pinside do not list games for example there may be 10 or 40 or who knows how many people on Pinside who own XMLE but do not list their collection so the actual number of these LE pins sold to Pinsiders may be more than half.

The Hobbit is a prime example.

I asked about this, I mean crazy how the upper PF is instantly accessible, unlike Woz or Tspp.

I guess (?) just don’t shoot the ramp if you don’t need to access the upper PF.

Still seems like it can be a neat little PF but I didn’t think I’d want to be up there 20 times a game. AcDc premium lower PF is fun but only in small doses.

I don’t know anything since haven’t watched any videos and don’t know if the rules will make it fun to play all the time or only during certain modes.

XM (IMO) has some flaws that could have been fixed if Stern gave a crap, the lack of final Wizard mode is one.

Automatic restart completed hero modes created roadblocks or repeating modes to little effect (would have been easy for Stern to make this a menu toggle, like stacking on/off is).

IMO defeating all the villains is too hard (IMO) in one game, maybe some people can do it but to me it seems just starting all the villain modes (like LotR does with the ring modes) would have been a better goal (or make it an option in the menu). I have never defeated more than 2 villain modes in a single game.

I am talking about people who like to play on 3-balls and maybe would like to see more of the game such as DP mode with the glass on.

I thought XM had a lot of potential like a Tron layout with more depth of rules and fun rules especially he villain modes. But Stern just got it to 85% and quit.

The code has improved greatly since it was released, at first it didn't even keep score correctly and one update mad it so bad that I switched back to the first code. The crap code release was so bad that every shot you made to a hero, you got the same Wolverine call out, it was amateur hour at Stern. Then you have the current code where the wizard mode (I believe doesn't have code for DMD) and it has Professor X mode which is quite fun but a few of the mutant you need to hit doesn't point to the correct shots, in other words it would show Ice Man but the shot wouldn't be Ice Man ramp it would be Psylock shot (or something) totally amateur, could be corrected in a minute but Stern doesn't give a crap.

So you’re saying Ice Man = Storm ramp is not a bug?

Why can’t Ice Man = Ice Man ramp?

I do like that mode and it’s nice if you can’t remember, just hit Xavier and he will light the correct shot.

Gambit hurry-up was really inventive and my favorite shot to make.

Can’t say Pinside is a small percentage as half of XMLE and Tron LE are represented just in owners collections not counting Pinsiders who don’t list their collection so could be even higher.

1300 Metallica represented how many did Stern sell? If they sold 4k that’s 1/3 of all Metallica pins and probably a higher number of LE

100% agree, Stern made this shit show last year with BM66. Compounding all the other issues lack of quality, lack of code, removing PF supports, movingthe on/off switch to the head. It’s not one thing it’s a dozen. I’ll gladly go on from here without giving Stern another dollar.

I am not taking anything away from past great Stern pins (SM, Tron, AcDc, AcDc, TWD, LotR, TSPP etc..) but that was then this is now. Currently JJP, Spooky and others are in the fight for my dollars and have earned them more than Stern. Stern has burned too many bridges. I look at my PotC, TSPP, LOTR, SM and see that it was possible for Stern to make full-featured and well-coded pins. PF supports that I don't need to add aftermarket, full features without having to pay an extra $2K for an LE or premium.

Spike was not a good omen for me, I viewed it as a cost-cutting measure (the pin?). If Stern could sell an empty box they would (Gary said as much with SW).

Is it worth $8-10K it was sold for?

I can't see BM re-selling for any more than a typical LE or premium, I see one GB LE with mods not selling at $6950 and I have to view that as comparable to any BM66 LE or premium.

all owners have listed BM66 very high yet it's rated very low overal *funny how many 9+ ratings it has, even with beta codel, it's ranked below Avatar, Mustang, TF etc..

I have played it myself meh, it was right next to AFMr and DI was across the room so it was not even fair how meh BM was (to me).

Agree, I’ve had lots of B/W top ten pins and think the top Stern pins are better, maybe code for me. Everyone is different but I wonder at people who dislike Tspp, SM, LotR, Met, Tron. I like both eras but preferred Stern pins until the last few years when all these problems and code issues and price hikes and cost cutting started to accumulate.

When you could buy NIB Tron, IM, TWD etc. for $46-4700 that was a good time.

When I was trying to sell my XMLE 2.5 years ago, had a dealer tell me he was not interested in trading for mine because he still had 4-5 NIB XMLE this was around 2+ years after they were initially sold.

I have not played it that much but didn’t care for the upper PF overmuch when I did play it. One thing that really bothered me was I’d play several games all around the same not really trying to do anything special because I don’t know the rules but one game I’d get 5x higher score because of some bonus multiplier I didn’t even know how I got. Someone said I must hav hit the battering ram x number of times.

I don’t think that’s a great game code if you get massive points for doing something on accident.

Yep few hundred million points.

Stern doesn’t care.

Until legions of people stop supporting them they will do the same, probably sold a lot of ST already.

Gary would say something like no machine is perfect and it’s within the normal standards to have some decal peel or ghosting or cabinet splitting etc..

So?

You have to pay extra for PF supports on Stern.

I’d rather have PF supports myself.

Word just got Woz RR it’s a beast.

Remember crocodile Dundee movie, ‘that’s not a knife that’s is a knife’

The odd couple.
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So that's it, the new GOTG thread from yesterday has more posts than this entire thread.

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I’m trying to figure out when did Stern jump the shark?

There was always some hits and misses with games: BBH/IM and Tron/Avatar some hits some misses.

I think some low games like XM, TF, Avengers were interspersed with Tron, AcDC, Metallica are examples of the typical peaks and troughs that is normal along the way although a lot of bad code was starting to appear with lots of delays but some code being better when done (Lyman) and some being not great.

But overall even in this era there was not as much serious issues (XMLE Aux board was an issue but easily fixed). There was some issues with decals not sticking well but I think that was addressed somewhat satisfactory.

It was not until last several years (from Spike) that Stern had a lot more serious issues, ghosting, splitting cabinets and overall more cheaply made but more costly.

While I’m sure Spike has some advantages, to me it always seems like it was mainly advantage to Stern so they could make the pins cheaper (Transformers The Pin was the first Spike machine iirc).

So you’re ok if Stern now says in the manual that insert ghosting may be normal?

I stand corrected according to this video Stern makes 5 of the best pins on the market today

Regarding nothing to compete with Stern Pro at least TNA is within $700 if a pro cost, and with topper, PF supports, upgraded side rails, full color LEDs.

I’m not saying the cost of PF supports $70, topper $xx and improved side rails $xxx would equal $700 but it’s conceivable if Spooky had stripped the game like Stern does with the pro that it could cost $5700 ish.

At least SW Is so barren it shouldn’t be hard to swap out.

Regarding the play field dimples on SW posted earlier.

I have a vintage 10 years old Potc that looks almost new, has 800+ plays not that many that I’d expect all dimples to even out. Most of my light play Stern pins look the same.

I know that’s still new to some routed games but I’d except that Potc PF was made of stronger stuff. Has some dimples but not god awful.

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I’ll disagre somewhat when you say Pinside is a very small demographic of pinball owners.

If you look at the pins where you can know how many were produced such as Tron LE (400) XMLE (550) and so on you will see around half of these pins are owned by Pinsiders and far more for the Spooky titles.

I’d guess Pinside is leaning more towards the newer titles like GB, Tron, TWD etc. and the LEs more than the pinball owners at large which may consist of person who owns one game in their game room and never is too active in the hobby to be on Pinside. So likely Pinside as a whole could be small overall, I think it buys a lot of the newer pins and the boutique pins etc..

You also should appreciate that not all Pinsiders list the games they own. I know several people on Pinside who never list any games in their collection

So maybe you are correct overall Pinside may be very small but if you look at the new and the high end new pins probably Pinside is probably inordinately large.

I just bought JP premium couldn’t be happier with the theme, toys, and code.

Bought SW premium comic a while ago and it’s my favorite pin.

I love Woz.

It might be a little wide body floaty but it’s super fun.

I don’t get all jazzed about packed with toys, passed on Halloween because I can’t see how it’ll play with flow or not. Maybe it’ll flow but all those upper PF seem a bit much. I know Woz had two but it still had some breathing room.

Lots of great choices not everyone likes the same games.

I don’t like LZ or GnR either one. But there are a bunch of Stern games I’d buy. I own seven currently and something like 13-14 Stern pins in my collection at one point or another. Once my collection was nothing but Stern pins.

There are 2 R&M on location near me.

Also surprisingly 2 TBL on the same locations.

Stern should make 1250 LE on the next Keith Godzilla or whatever it might be because it’ll still sell out instantly.

It’s funny that the first post was complaining about BM66 now it’s selling for big money and my next pin. I’ve spoke to several Pinsiders looking for an allotment for the last BM66 run.

I’ve also bought JP and SW premium, Godzilla LE along with BM66 in the last 2 years.