Crazy is right, Stern isn't going to stop selling pins overnight, especially pros

To sum up what JFH posted, both Jack and Abess said "they are committed 100% to delivering what the customer wants"

They realize the HUO guy is their market. And they just took it to another level

Stern should focus on a pro and premium model now with their base game or foundation game, whatever they call it. Their LE market has been blown up

Then do the LEs on the lower run boutique games like BM66 and see how that goes

I also want to say that I love playing my Stern pins, they are a blast to play.

I was their "LE guy" prototype

Great themes, got spoiled by TWD code with Lyman and figured every game thereafter would be to that level

Makes ZERO sense to buy a Stern LE, never did really, but this nut job is done with that program, maybe a premium down the road

People will bring out the knee pads again when GOTG is announced

Better keep that line running

You da man MN!

A code drop might help w BM 66

Like Magic Girl?

One thing I've learned over the years, Pinheads are a FICKLE bunch and shit can change in a hurry

For now though my patience meter with Stern is on F ing empty

They need to start focusing on we the customer

Of course I'm butthurt over BM66 right now but it's more of a coding issue versus quality for me, although they need to improve all over the board

"Bom" and "build quality" are the two most overused and relatively meaningless phrases on Pinside!

Honestly, who gives a F.

While I'm buying a Potc it ain't because of the above. But I'll take it, and the game looks killer

But a lot of people have to justify in their minds why they are spending A versus B in buying a pin

Shows you how out of touch these guys are right now.

The 5% number is total BS.

Even if it was the other 95% is experiencing the same BS we are.

The compound effect of continuous screw ups is something i'd be worried about if that was my business.

My feelings on "the dark knight for Stern" from BM66 thread:

"Thanks for the info Manimal, I agree that they all seem like really good guys doing their best. I'm just not gonna believe though that Lyman has been dedicated to BM66 since last expo, that would be a terrible business move on Stern's part. I guess we will see when coding credits come out on future games.

This is ALL Stern's OWN DOING! I can feel sorry for the individuals BUT as nice as George is he's running daily operations at Stern now. He, Gary and the rest of the beancounters bear the responsibility.

You guys remember last year at Expo when we all wanted to see the BM66 reveal and play it and Lyman wouldn't let it happen because the state of the code was in terrible shape, he's a proud coder, yet it got shoved out there anyhow.

STERN made this ALL about a freaking $$$$$ grab. As much as i love my BM66, it is what it is.

Let's NOT FORGET, Stern went as follows on PRICING:

GBLE $8,000
BM66LE $10,000
BM66SLE $15,000
ASLE $8,300
SWLE $8,500

It's THEIR business, with all due respect, I don't really want to hear F ing EXCUSES (again, not the employees fault)! As a business owner myself i find it hard to believe what the F i'm hearing!!! Management doesn't respect their CUSTOMERS and worse, take us for granted, it's pretty F ing clear.

If I sell my services for X and then tell my clients, sorry guys, these legal, tax and financial issues are really complicated with the new laws and products, bear with me, I'll eventually deliver what i promise, MAYBE.

What a GOOD business does is WHATEVER IT TAKES to implement the system they put in place, SPIKE, get their shit together and get it done!

What I'm hearing is that the owners and management DON'T and WON'T put the CUSTOMER FIRST. See above pricing and then following results.

That's the bottom line, period end of story.

The presentation they gave was PATHETIC. They should have come out and addressed every single issue up front. We the CUSTOMER, shouldn't have to ask the questions! One guy asked a BM66 question, very respectfully i might add, yet so many more needed to be asked and answered.

On the other hand, you had JJ and the multi millionaire investor himself, Abess, standing up on the stage putting WE the CUSTOMER FIRST, in their own words (yes i understand all the differences and you know i've been very critical of JJP) and so far they are delivering.
I've been probably the most vocal Stern defender and JJP critic over the last year.

After this Expo and digesting what has happened over the past year and the contrast between the two presentations, I'm simply tired of all of the EXCUSES from management (again no offense to the great individuals that work there)

You heard JJP talk about delivering the quality and code that WE want. You see that in how Keith and crew are getting it done.
You heard Gomez talk about "making a pass" on this game or that game. Sorry, the VIBE is totally different folks.

Bottom line, i love my Stern pins HOWEVER, the pricing above, continuos excuses and delays, attitudes toward the customer, etc. mean no more NIB for me.

Yeah i know, they don't really care. It's what they do, take us for GRANTED. Sadly, we as a community, and the BM66 group is the greatest example, great people, great mods and ideas, have much more PASSION about their products than management seems to have.

Back to BM66, looking forward to greatness!"

Damn Odin, you need to get down here to Texas

Real Mex food and I can get u 5 fully loaded burritos for $5

Plus you can get with real people.

Or maybe u prefer vegans like Rarehero

Trust me Odiner, it ain't Taco Bell

Although, back in my younger days that combo burrito was a great late night go to

And the Jack in the box super tacos. Omg

Expo has a way and history of defining what's what.

To me, JJP is defined now by customer first, pinball passion and a competitive will to win

Stern defined themselves to me as just good enough is ok in their minds

Man I've done a total 180

No way that beast is a buck!

And damn sure don't pics of a dude eating that thing.

I'm thinking she is really eating that little taquito over to the left!

I honestly think they will kill it with GOTG and Elvira but same old same old with code

Lyman is the common denominator for most recent GREAT Stern pins

That's not a knock on Dwight for what he's done on GOT and GB or Lonnie on AS, really good, just not greatness

I don't think Spike versus Sam means anything, only more capability if they would put it to use

And I think Hazoff is right WAY beyond mediocre

No worries for me. Much like AS entrance to the upper PF but better, elevator in back takes the ball up that way as well.

Pinball guys are the absolute worst presenters I've ever seen

They don't even try and make it fun and interesting

At least JJP mixed it up a bit with the reveal of POTC and had the investor there

They have, JJP is channeling Williams.

Most "investors" like the one's Stern brought on always have "exit strategies" in mind once goals, growth and profit targets have been met.

If i were them, its the perfect time to look at a sale, especially if corporate tax reform goes through which would make all small businesses more profitable.

There is another recession coming, will it happen in January? 2 or 3 years from now? Nobody knows, maybe a tax cut could extend the current bull run.

On the other hand, the pool of buyers have to be miniscule. When new investors do their due diligence its highly unlikely the old investors will get the premium they think they can get.

More likely, future Stern buyers will need a "production facility" and pinball might just be an ancillary division if at all.

Remember Bally/Williams?

It's an amazing feat to me that a small company like Spooky can produce 10 pins a week

I actually played an AMH up in Austin at Pinballz a while back.

I thought it was pretty damn good and well built. Fun pin to play.

The fact that you dudes even know what brand you have is a bit weird

Who gives a shit about a dishwasher! Wtf

How about underwear? Tried Stance brand, will never wear anything else again. Awesome feel!

That's good too. I'll do that after a workout at the gym

Just to name a few of the RECENT excellent Stern games, you can add in SM, LOTR, TSPP and yes BM66 (it will be a great one )

If you are a fan of pinball you have to love the options Stern puts out there. That said, as many have stated in this thread including myself, they need to get it together FAST. Or just be satisfied with selling primarily to Barcades.

CGC and JJP build physical tanks, doesn't mean they haven't had and won't have their own problems in the future, they will.

I'm a fan of ALL pinball, that's all that should really matter.

If it was a "crap game" to begin with that might be true.

Is it "crap code"? What's there is good, Lyman will hit it out of the park again.

The "most frequent comment" i heard regarding TWD early on was it was "crap" and "the walking dud", etc. We all know how that turned out. Stay tuned.

They don't "re sell". See market. As for the LE, there are only 200, but i assume you know that.

As we all know, every pin north of $8k is coming down in the secondary market, but good luck finding a BM66LE

Holy crap! That is so F ing clever.

Haha, yeah the haters are gonna hate the way it was rolled out. A bit jealous and dickish but who TF cares, my rating is the only one that counts

We "owners" love it and know what's coming with Lyman.

Since AFMr is coming home I'll let give you a real opinion soon enough Rai.

Some of you guys sound like a bunch of grouchy old geezers

I'm an equal opportunity lover and hater!

I'm loving POTCCE. I just hope they can deliver sooner than expected this time to take advantage of Sterns F ups

It will sit right next to my gorgeous and sensational BM66LE

Maybe by next summer code will be done!

The reason people like myself bought a BM66LE is because

It's a great theme. Iconic with Adam West and Burt Ward personally involved with the call outs and the autographs

There are only 240 LEs so it's a real limited number unlike the rest of the BS I've purchased

LCD and animations/clips. Fantastic library of usable content

It's a damn fun pin to play that should be made great by Lyman. (see TWD)

The experience with the club group, great guys, fun mods, no BS

Is it way too much $$? Sure. But it's cool and I love it!

POTCCE is stupid $$ too. See all the above reasons for me to buy that one too

So I guess people like me have F Ed up the hobby. That's ok

I still love my old pins too. One day I'm sure EMs will be in the cards to try. We will see

It really should be, its right up there in my book and would be if released with complete code

If you ever got through the entire game you'd get it! A few games here or there makes it more frustrating. It's a bitch to play but a masterpiece. I played the shit out of it for a year before i got to master it. Every shot means something and so many different ways to play it.

Haha, yep, one of these days soon I'm gonna have a South Texas Invitational pinfest. Free booze and lots of pinball, you are invited TFA!

It's not new. On location and that huge magnet is great compared to the pos JJP has to use

I actually thought it was a DI magnet wear at first

Get used to it BigD. Nobody cares about premium or mods sorry, had to go there

Wait until you try and sell your TH or I mean DI

Or the old classics. Remakes have tanked the oldies

Disagree, magnets much better now

Well good for you. Woz is a great pin, won't sell mine either. Worth At least $6500 lol

And no DI isn't selling well compared to POTC, not even close. But if u like it, that's all that matters

Hmmm, adding a TH too, wow gl

You are selling those now? What does getting a premium mean in today's market?

Not what it got yesterday

Smart move selling those pins, especially SS before next Elvira pin comes out

Well, you'd know one when you see it i guess with your collection, so I defer to the turd expert.

Yep, and I think the proverbial shit is about to hit the fan for Stern

I don't care what GOTG looks like, the Stern LE market just took a cannon shot from the Black Pearl and is gonna sink

Can't imagine distros are gonna lap those LEs up this time

I would have put it at even money until I got my roof replacement cost on coast house

$35k and that’s my roofer client discount! Very minimal damage but a good time to replace after the hurricane. Now we need the 50 yr no rust aluminum roof

So ain’t happening, probably

Drunk Iceman has made some VERY poor Pinball decisions in the past. Not this time

Dumbest thing i ever did was to send Jpop $1500 on an AIW deposit just to support “great Pinball” after arguing on here as to when I was going to get my Raza

Got my TBL $$ back thx to Phil who bailed out after expo

Actually it’s been a great ride, a little bumpy, but how can you not love this hobby!

No need to take shit from a guy that loves TH, especially RH

No you are right on Boobs. Simple as that. There is NO RIGHT OR WRONG

Some people act like they F ing know it all as if their opinion counts more than anyone’s else’s

The only opinion that matters is yours.

You love what you love, why worry about who thinks what, especially some of these pompous a holes. A lot of great dudes on here too

Hahah....I stipulate right now that my opinion DOES NOT matter one F ing iota. How about that one?

Nor do i take myself too seriously like some around here

I figured you guys for Vegan, tree hugging snowflakes? No?

10 min left on my BM66 download......

They do have an excellent service crew in place. It’s your distro and Chas direct from Stern

I’ve only had one pin that needed service, BM66, at it was excellent, just like JJP

Now production issues like ghosting etc that’s different

And why would you even want to talk to Gary? Chas is the man, pick up the phone

Btw, the Hobbit blows

BM66 just had a code drop. I think it will be great when done by Lyman in December, stay tuned

TH blows comment is for my buddy Rare, the pin whisperer, and of course no Game really blows

How do you rate AFMLE?

My kids don’t play any of them anymore. All girls though. NBAFB was their favorite!

Excellent lineup

Yep, mine played when they were younger too. Enjoy it while you can, teenagers find other stuff to do

I want one of those pitch and bats too

JG is right though. 4x vs. say a 92 Williams with card dispenser.

2 player fun. Had some great times on those

If I'm any indicator at all then I doubt we will all be hopping back on the Stern love train, not with the "LE trap"

My first LE, a LOTRLE for $5200

Next Stern was an Ac/dc premium for I think around $6200 at the time? Reasonable

Then came TWDLE, had to have it because of the theme AND, you guys remember this one, Stern said they weren't going to make a premium version of TWD, collected the $$$ for the LE's and then changed their minds.

That LE was $7599 I think?

Now here come GBLE, had to have it, love the colors, theme, etc.....$7,999

Next up, I'm thinking it better be a F ing home run for me to buy another LE. And they slipped in BM66! I paid $9599 for that one.

At this point, things are out of control, kind of like "on tilt" when you are gambling. ASLE was a huge surprise, love it, $8299

And then again, here comes SWLE, wtf am I doing? $8499. Notice a trend here?

Backed off that one thinking alright, GOTG should be really good and then there is AFMLE and POTCE.

So now I'm really F ed. I'm in on the latter two, awaiting delivery.

Here we are today, GOTG looks like a home run from everything we hear. BUT, as much as I want it, its just not gonna happen unless I get it a year or two later like I did with Ac/dc when it was finished.

What will the LE price be? $8699. Premium? $7499? SHIT HAS GOTTEN WAY WHACK. OUT OF CONTROL!

Got to be picky, picky, so no Nibby, Nibby this time.

Patience baby, its a virtue they say

I have both and I think Spike stereo is a huge improvement on my ASLE and BM66LE

Not even sure why it’s an issue. Any system that provides for the LCD is better

The Circle of Life Hazoff. Give it time. More volume of pins, more issues and JJP will develop its share of hate with this crowd.

And i'm getting a POTC, i just don't give a shit what anybody else thinks or says.

It's funny how quickly the hate has turned into a lovefest with GOTG. Of course the hater brigade, which might be a little less in ranks this time, will eventually rear its ugly head.

I'd rather be a "fanboy" like Who Dey all day long, he's passionate about pinball and loves to talk about it. So what. It's better than the Debbie Downer DB crowd non stop. MUCH better.

Excellent point. Who Dey is a good dude. Have had many positive PM discussions about games.

No doubt. Good to see Cali hasn't changed you Snaroff!

I'd say that both build games with the calculator. The fixed overhead with Stern is huge, if they don't factor in costs they go out of business fast.

You can't really compare a SWLE (or any Stern LE) and a DILE or POTCLE. Compare the JJP LE to the Stern premium, $9500 plus shipping versus $7200 shipped premium. A JJP LE is really "limited" either.

I agree, the Stern LE model is BROKEN

Really is true. I have a beautiful direct print Woz cab. The weight of the cab is meaningless! It just makes it a bit more difficult to move around

And people can say what they want, the PF's are just another slab of wood. Aside from the GB debacle, my Stern PF's are fantastic.

I'm happy with my Woz and looking forward to getting a POTC, in my mind, the differences are minor though, its just pinball. Just my opinion though.

I’ve got AFMRLE coming next week too!

Agree about that topper.

I’m anxious to see what I get for my POTCCE, been awhile since Woz for me

Could it be the power surges or inconsistency that's causing the resets?

It's weird because I literally have never had a game reset one time on any of my pins, Stern or otherwise. I'm sure its due to Spike being more finicky and sensitive to such things? Whatever it is, like JJP originally with those boards they'll sort it out.

I think GOTG looks fantastic all the way around and I passed on SW thinking I'd go with GOTG.

I ended up sticking with AFMRLE, get it Wednesday, and POTC next yr.

I'll sit on the sidelines and wait and see how this one turns out code wise. The other thing is its hard to enjoy too many pins! I'll be playing BM66 for the foreseeable future based on how its shaping up with the code. Lyman is great!

They must be cutting corners on a selective basis then?

My ASLE PF is as good as any I've owned. My GBLE PF dimples a whole lot more, hard to tell if its like that SW pic above because sometimes it can look better or worse with pics versus in person. Especially when you put the magnifying glass to it.

Since Gary said they could "put a box of blinking lights on SW and sell........" maybe they are using the older crap PF's for some of that SW run?

Whoa Ladies!

Simmer on a down a notch or two

Put your big boy panties on and quit stressing out about a couple of dimple craters

When someone can prove to me that it affects how the balls rolls or my enjoyment of the pin THEN and only THEN will I go into panic mode like you ladies