SW pro is a fantastic fast playing great pinball machine, whats the point of all this Stern is in trouble crap, am I only the only one who doesn't give a shit? I mean its 3500 more for a JJP standard, it better be amazing.

They did make make an amazing SW game, maybe not to you but have u played it? with the latest code and the inclusion of both a video mode and the light saber duel it feels basically complete, I don't know what the final mode is if you finish all 4 characters if there is one but otherwise Face the Emperor is very cool. Boba fett mode with a strobe, light saber mode which is fantastic, different call outs and clips for different characters, many multis all stackable and 4 mini wizards as well, ok its doesn't have a upper mini playfield which I don't like anyway, and its not loaded with alot of childish toys which I also dislike but when you have lets say 2 mini wizard multi's going then add a Tie fighter multi, maybe a hyper space multi all while trying to move the shot multiplier for maximum points its a rush, great audio and call outs not too mention the lighting effects, what the hell r u talking about?

Wow, audio and video are amazing so either you wearing heavy ear muffs and real dark sunglasses or played DE SW and thought it was the new Stern version. The theme wasn't wasted at all, what would have wasted it? a slow stop and go adventure style game in my opinion, but to each his own. I think Stern needs to improve only one aspect of their games and thats code, AS was pretty much complete and SW is already done in my mind, if they can get a grip on releasing games with near complete code then not much too complain about, I mean if you want to buy the Pre/LE model thats an option and you can wait to see if its worth it but at least they have a 5K option and SW feels more than worth that price point. What really hurt them and you can see clearly who was hurt is GB's and BM66, I think BM66 eventually will be something special, I never really like GB's but only good things can come from JJP making more games, SW's has been out for 3 months I think and the code is there, hopefully this becomes a new standard, why can't everyone just be happy we have multiple manufacturers to choose from without doing the vs crap, hate Stern buy JJP or Spooky, so far I haven't seen nor have I played a game from either thats worth my money but I'm glad they are making pins and I'm glad Stern is making pins, "A dark night for Stern" thats the problem, why say that and worse start a thread about it? its stupid, why do you want Stern to fail? Couldn't you just say JJP has made a great game I hope Stern answers in kind? anyway I just wish JJP would a pin with a theme I like, Robocop, predator, maybe Bond or Blade Runner, could happen.

It did, why does there have to be a war at all?

When is that in 20 years? I'm 43 and see myself buying and playing pins well into my 60's, what about the 30 somethings? If anything will end it will be pins that cost 10K plus, without Stern a lot of people would be out of this hobby with regards to NIB.

Yeah but its pinball, its a toy, I love pinball but man people need to relax, thats like taking a side on which franchise is better, Star Trek or Star Wars and getting emotional about, I like both but come on.

What amazes me is when pinsiders especially the JJP fan boys bring up "BOM" and "Build Quality" all that crap, now the standard JJP is 8500 thats almost 3500 more than a Stern pro, can anyone honestly tell me they see 3500 more in value between the two? I certainly don't, and definitely don't see 6 to 7K value in Spooky pins, TNA at 6K and no one says shit but SW pro is overpriced? seems odd.

How do you know its 50%? just asking. Don't forget there are a lot more people buying pins than several years back.

R u for real? JJ is still at heart a business man and making money is the first priority, both companies make great pinball machines and both love pinball but its a business, Jack has to be or at least seem to be overly passionate and deliver a premium game or hes out of business, don't be so gullible sir. Stern has given us Tron, TWD, Met, AS, SW, GOT, the list is quite long and they are all great pins JJP just hit number #4.

You missed my point completely, many collectors and players cannot afford the standard JJP model and the only option is the Stern Pro, I agree in terms of value the Pre/LE model is the closer more accurate model for comparison but JJP doesn't offer anything at the 5K range and if they did it too would be stripped down. STpre ot TWDpre models are for me in the same category as any of the JJP standards and with vastly superior themes, and that matters no matter how many pinsiders say they don't care about theme, most collectors do.

That doesn't answer my question, do you see 3500 of value from SW pro to the POTC standard model? I mean don't get me wrong I don't personally care, buy what ever makes you happy. I'm not buying the LE from Stern anymore, and the Pre would have to have some major upgrades to get my money over the pro.

I think you mean a Stern Home pin and the Pro.

Who cares? as long as these companies are selling enough games to stay in business, make some money and keep making pins does it really matter? why does anyone care how many units are sold? back to vs crap, this is really sad but entertaining.

That's fair, I don't think you gave SW a fair chance, the pro model is quite impressive, while the playfield certainly isn't littered with toys its not that kind of pin so its works, but hey I'm not into the gameplay of POTC from what I've seen, not a fan of mini PF's and prefer open concept so I'm just happy we have options, if and when JJP does a theme I dig then I'm in, they are making great stuff, well DI and POTC anyway, not a fan of WOZ and TH.

Never experienced endless multi glitch or really anything else, don't know about the fork thing as I have the pro but "horribly buggy" is not the reality at all.

How did you manage that? I've been trying for years. .

I don't see it but OK, and SW code is great.

Yes it is.

If Stern was concerned and needed pinside to stay alive they would be a presence on this site but they aren't so I don't think they need our approval, JJP while coming up is still small potatoes and due to the lack of a low priced model need the obsessed pinballer to stay afloat, while I don't know this for sure I think Stern has a huge market in terms of their Pro model that doesn't have any link to this site and are not in fear what so ever with what JJP is producing not too mention the fact that even though there are lots of complainers people on this site still buy the LE/PRE models anyway, I hope Stern feels a pinch and steps up the code for future releases, SW is definitely a step in the right direction but pinsiders need to get over themselves.

I don't think Stern is concerned by either, while CGC are making fine re-makes they are still re-makes, I have no interest in owning games I already have played and owned in the past and outside of the serious collector I don't think too many other people are either, Stern is putting out nearly 3 games a year and the pro model is there bread and butter, as of right now they aren't threatened, maybe here on pinside by the couple of hundred regular posters who think they control the market but that's bullshit JMO.

That's because I really don't give a shit.

GOT, SW, AS, BM66, GB are all medicore pins? come on don't talk foolish.

Yeah and the 3500 difference just for the standard, don't be foolish.

If ur slow upstairs then yeah that would be the question but I would take POTC and lets SM or Tron etc. over one JJP POTC, the game looks nice but its not the second coming for me, it seems for a lot of you fanboys the only thing missing is set of Jacks balls dangling under the cab that u can lick nightly, now that's "build quality".

What day is that?

Have you seen their pins?

Well I won't, but thanks for the advice, so far I have found every one of Spooky's games to be lackluster and disappointing, don't tell me what I can say and how that makes me look, to whom exactly anyway, you, other pinsiders? couldn't care less.

Boy is that a stupid comment, I only defend them due to JJP fanboy horseshit and foolish comments about good games. I'm not a fanboy of anything.

As long as you like it that's all that matters, I'm not saying the game is bad, I've never played TNA but to have the position that you can't criticize a company because the owners are stand up fella's is horseshit, I'm sure Jack is a nice person and Gary might be a hell of a guy so does that mean we can't make jokes and have opinions about their product, come on man. I like Aurich and agree with him on many a topic but don't discipline me on what I can say.

fair enough.

This thread was never holy, its always been as ridiculous as the title
entertaining though, I'll give it that.

The best feeling is to go nintendo, oh I love it.

Yeah, a girl I use to know called it nintendo once and it still makes smile, she made me smile

My dishwasher is currently running, lets talk detergent.

How about this, has anyone ever washed their underwear in their dishwasher?

That's just ridiculous and what happened 12 years ago?

This thread is just really stupid now.

and getting even more stupid, when will it end?

I think the whole JJP vs Stern thing is crap, and this whole topic sucks, "A dark night for Stern" its not a horror film its a toy, a very expensive toy which is why so many pinsiders get their panties in a bunch but none the less its a toy, all these companies have one goal and thats to make money, JJP better put something out there superior or they are finished, Stern has issues and I get that but without them this would be a very boring hobby, especially for someone who doesn't want only family friendly themes.

Oh I would.

I'll give u collector but not the home buyer or enthusiast, I'm pretty much gonna be sticking with Stern Pro's from now on, 8500 to 10K plus is just too much, I just want to play the game for 3 or 4 months and move on, I stopped collecting because it was ruining pinball for me, like this site could ruin the hobby for someone, you know "ur game sucks, my game is the best" and all that crap, now its like the old days of arcade pinball, go everyday almost and play those 1 or 2 pins and looking forward to when the operator swapped them out for something new, the only thing missing is the thrill of skipping school, oh and the hash bots, memories pressed between the pages of my mind................................

8K so you can figure out what Pre/LE or JJP are costing, even if our dollar was even with the states maybe a Pre model Stern if it was a must have, or a JJP standard but thats the limit.

Forget it, Pinside is very jaded these days, if you pass up on a game and can't get into because of theme then that's foolish but when u write it off due to art or lack of toys then it seems perfectly justified.

well said and very true, SW fits the same mold and yeah there's room for both styles of gameplay.

this thread is such a joke

this comment is the real joke

No its not, while I've never had any issues with a NIB Stern or used stern myself with the exception of the ramp flap thing on TWDLE I accept the company needs to get on track with code and splitting cabs, ghosting inserts all that but if you were to go by this site its as if every game fell apart once it was unboxed, thats whats irritating and the constant reminder of this falsity by mostly JJP fanboys sucks, its tiresome and weak, look at the title of this thread for instant.

you are talking about a company that has delivered 5 times almost what JJP has in the last 7 years, can anyone speculate what JJP pins would be like if they were produced at this volume? I hope the same but its comparing apples and oranges not too mention pricing. you know what I don't care anymore, time to drain this foolish thread.

I didn't say that and I don't care anymore.

Well if what makes you macho around here is feeling that Mario Odyssey is for children then this place is far more frightening that I had previously thought. I've tried to get into the last couple nintendo consoles but it never works out, just not feeling those games anymore, playing Fall Out 4 on my PC its great and looking forward to God Of War on the PS4 this coming year, if you like to play Mario then all the power to ya, does it mean ur not as Macho as me, you bet ur ass it does.

I've always loved the Fall out games but this one is ridiculous. Damn Who-Dey we are so Macho, my machismo flows all over the place, how are you managing ur machismo these days? its not easy that's for sure, especially on this oh so manly website, any help is appreciated.

I'm no Vegan but I love to hug trees while wearing my snowflake style underpants, what could be more macho than that?

Thats not what I was implying at all, while there's no excuse for shitty quality regardless of the numbers the comparison between the 2 companies is kind of stupid, when and if JJP is producing 3 games a year ( I hope they do one day by the way) who knows what that level of production will result in with regards to build quality and all that crap, I hope it doesn't affect it all and they make solid games, get them out there quickly with very few issues, I just wish we could appreciate both companies instead of the constant comparing of two very different manufacturers. Please don't give me speculations as to how JJP would be making 3 games a year because as of now no one knows and nor should they care.

You guys are really something, another pinsider stated its the best game ever made or something like that so Who Dey responded "for kids I'd say it is" how does that become "its only for kids", one thing I love about pinside because I'm a bug, a big bug is its really easy to get people having to re think their masculinity because we are all old guys playing with toys, watch the comments that follow this statement, there will be a lot of justification and comparisons, I love it. I grew up with Mario and Zelda and really enjoy Pikmin and so many other nintendo original games, Mario 64 was pure magic the first time I played it, I bought the Wii and the Wii U but it just didn't click with me, once again if you go against the grain around here prepare for the "revenge of the nerds 5" the pinside years.

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There aren't, I just got done watching some gameplay of Wolfenstein 2 I doubt we will see a dedicated fan page for that game.

Yeah, the last one I really enjoyed was World at War, I don't mind the older Rainbow Six, Medal of Honor and Ghost recon games either, loving Fall out 4, talk about possibly the greatest game ever made, it sure as hell isn't Mario.

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No. This thread has run its course and was ridiculous to begin with. Lets talk video games.

I said its runs it course and is ridiculous but that doesn't mean its not entertaining. how did u post 2 in a row? it won't let me do that.

What? do you honestly believe if JJP gets as large as Stern Jack will be making fuckin phone calls, come on man, JJP is still a boutique operation, wow. See Jfh ur thread sucks. Bye Bye

I think everyone understands, but nobody cares, what do you think we are having trouble dealing with the overly intelligent request or that no one gives a shit? I just came back to help and I can see it was needed.

Jesus, why do you want it to fail? wouldn't it be better if the game was amazing and we have another pin out there? I'm not a Spooky or JJP owner, as of yet they haven't made anything I would buy but I want them to be successful,WTF

no one said the for the company to fail, not sure where you got that and while I agree with you no one was forced into buying it, everyone knew the risks going in, just saying we are all to blame for Sterns business model as we keep buying the games, I know whats going to happen, almost always does, after mods and final code the pin will become a classic, the theme is certainly there, I hope so anyway for the owners. I stopped buying LE's after TWDLE, I felt let down by what they delivered for that kind of money, you know who I blame for that? me. I should have known that the smart move with Stern is to wait a year at least to let the game code mature, let the bugs get worked out, buy a HUO with all the trimmings, if enough pinheads decided to follow that motto Stern would have to respond, yet I bought SW pro right away, granted was pleasantly surprised to how complete the code was on day 1, hopefully GOTG follows suit in that department. Who doesn't want a better pin at a more reasonable price?

I see what ur saying but I wouldn't want SW to have been any different really, too many toys can sometimes slow things down and Stern went fast and furious with the style of gameplay in SW and it works well, the code/lighting/sound/LCD visuals and the sheer adrenaline rush when everything is going ur way not too mention the multipliers really makes it a great game but we all right stuff off due to other things than gameplay or at least most of us, theme is first for me, no matter how well it plays DI will never see the inside of my home, neither will AS. I think if ur looking at this from a collector's POV then yeah SW's is a let down, for me, a player first and someone who really never has any pin for longer than 6 months I don't care about the "world under the glass" not that its unimportant just kinda the last thing on my list.

Well Rubberducks it appears you need to be locked in a RubberRoom.

I would certainly like to see the reports of Stern sales and CGC sales etc. because you seem to have knowledge no one else does. CGC will eclipse Stern sales in 2017, wow

Who gives a shit? that's the real question here.

Wow that's brilliant.

Thanks for the explanation professor. just kidding. It depends on how you look at that, not to get too literal but actually it kinda does make it better from a business point of view, of course the quality isn't the same but that's all relative to the individual, here my brilliant take on this. I just bought a $30 Walmart winter jacket, plain black, very warm and more than adequate, my brother just bought a goose brand something or other jacket for $500 and yeah its built better, might last longer, looks a bit nicer with the crest and all but neither of us are going freeze, which one is better? I would rather use that 570 I saved to put a color DMD in my soon to be here TWD, see what I'm saying, what am I saying, I don't know?

I think you need to get urself a calculator my friend.

exactly, here 500 - 30 is always 570.

more due to taxes but the metric system doesn't help either.

Well right now if you say anything positive about a Stern game or call someone on their bullshit regarding Stern quality or code etc. then you are a fanboy, there is only one kind of fanboy on this site and thats a JJP fanboy. That company in their eyes can do no wrong and when they do its excused or you get the "call so and so he'll fix ya up" crap. Its highly entertaining to read those threads and then see the same guys out for blood in a Stern thread, "build quality"

I'll glady take SW with dimples thank you very much, this thread sucks. How the hell can you even compare the 2, Gorgar's gameplay doesn't exactly lend itself to fast action with the ball jumping around now does it? I like the game and its a classic but the comparison is completely ridiculous. I wish the mods would close this thread already its getting more and more stupid every day.

No its not this thread is stupid, bottom line and you just proved it "Stern of the Union" WTF does that mean?

You see, stupid.

I've never heard of that, wish I never did. Thanks

I agree with that and hope they improve communication, its the phrase "Stern of the Union" that I wish I never heard, forget it.

Man stay away from this idiotic thread, its just crap. Yeah Stern has issues but we have SW and GOTG and a new title will be announced probably shipping before POTC sees a home enviornment, forget the other boutique guys they are even worse, ok I understand it would great for pinball machines to be released without any trouble or QC issues but WTF? what a bunch of whiny Dbags.

That can't be JJP games don't break down and if there is an issue don't worry so and so will straighten u out its only Sterns that split open and fail ever other game with no sign of any support what so ever. Heavy heavy

Stern never said there were revealing the game it was just an announcement, I think the dickhead from the joker show fucked it all up, or they acheived what they wanted to get a lot more people watching pinball gameplay than normally would have tuned in. I mean at least have the option to listen to to game and not have to listen to pinball commentary cause I gotta tell ya it sucks. I'll watch a tutorial if i want to learn the rules and listen to pinball video blogs if I want to enduce a coma otherwise let me hear the game and enjoy the action.

Or you could just wait a year after release before buying anything Stern and make sur the game is solid, code is near complete that you have played on route and feel the need to now own one. Even pick up a used Pro at a discounted price. Theres a way to avoid the hurt so whats with the bullshit regarding risk via Stern? you don't have to buy it right away.

I agree, the game is actually pretty damn good but the theme just plain sucks, for me anyway. You don't have to be a 10 year girl though to rank it #1 you could be an adult man just a tad curious is all.

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I agree choices are great and competition can only help but this pin and its greatness is a product more so of Keith and his layout/rules and the theme and great artwork help a lot but as for Stern stepping up their game due to the other companies I'm not buying it. I think 3 in a row that blow everyone away and yeah its justified but B/W released many games with gems a plenty but also a fair amount of shit aswell. Spooky only has 500 units to sell and JJP while many may disagree is still a boutique pinball manufacturer with a pin a year and really its less than that. I hope this is a new standard for Stern and the pros all come with quality service rails, spinners etc but lets not get ahead ourselves.

Why would they need any other reason to hire Brian Eddy other than the fact that the man has made a few of the best pins ever created? Listen if Stern is raising their game due to outside competition thats good news but their next release could go right back into the category of Pinsiders tearing it a new one and all the other crap thats come with it. Personally I don't think JJP, Spooky or any other company has any affect on Stern. JMO and really who cares as long as we get great pins.

Don't say all because while I didn't mind it then I really don't care for it anymore, even back in the day I much preferred Terminator and STTNG, DM, Shadow to SS, MM, AFM etc. the bad jokes and terrible music get real tedious real fast. I doubt I'm the only one.