Again...you're making the argument about how much is packed into the game. There's no argument there. JJP will always win. Stern has a way of keeping you wanting to hit the Start button...empty playfield and all.

Everyone just gets swept up with JJP's glamour and excitement builds when it's years between releases. This thread is the perfect example. POTC was going to dominate the industry, put Stern in a dark hole too deep to crawl out of. Even now people are trying to compare GNR to LZ as if that's the only comparison. Stern has released something like 12 games in the last three years. JP, Elvira, SW, Turtles, Avengers, Mando to name a few of the good games.

To me its always been the same... they are two different markets really.

JJP is more for the guys who dont care how they game plays as long as its packed full of stuff and Stern is more geared toward players.

JJP has two games (Dialed In and Wonka) that I would say play great thanks to Pat Lawlor... the rest are dogs.

Stern has JJP beat by a mile for playability and design from a players perspective.

I still think WOZ is a masterpiece...as long as you're into the theme and don't mind stop and go games like TZ.

I dunno... more power to you on that. I cant stand that game from a playability standpoint, but I do like TZ.

seeing how most people pre-buy without ever even playing the games I find it hard to believe most pinball guys care much about gameplay.

game comes out they see 5 pictures and buy one.

I love Woz.

It might be a little wide body floaty but it’s super fun.

I don’t get all jazzed about packed with toys, passed on Halloween because I can’t see how it’ll play with flow or not. Maybe it’ll flow but all those upper PF seem a bit much. I know Woz had two but it still had some breathing room.

Lots of great choices not everyone likes the same games.

I don’t like LZ or GnR either one. But there are a bunch of Stern games I’d buy. I own seven currently and something like 13-14 Stern pins in my collection at one point or another. Once my collection was nothing but Stern pins.

TZ has way more flow than WOZ.

If you say so. They both seem like clunkfests to me.

Is this really the bar for you? Whether games are located in casinos or pinball hall of fame? What a small world you live in.

I never understood why everyone puts so much weight on TWIPY awards. No offense to TWIP...I like reading the articles and the details on reveals. But it really is the Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards of pinball. It has no correlation to whether I enjoy a game or not, nor would I use it to defend my stance whether I think a game is good or not. It's just a popular vote...that's it. GNR came out like 2 months before voting so the large majority of people that voted probably didn't even play the game yet.

People just comparing those 2 games for reasons ill never grasp

That's a shame for you

Again, arcades in casinos. They are usually quite large. For example, The Peppermill in Reno had seven pins a few weeks ago when I stopped in to play.

But for you, I'll add the public arcades in Michigan, California and the VFW Pinball compound. Does that make it any better for you?

I remember when WOZ and MET came out together in 2013. There were a lot of dire predictions for Stern, based on comparisons between them. 8 years later, MET is still highly sought-after, and used prices have held up well for MET that have been upgraded to ColorDMD. I’m glad Stern switched to Spike2 and added video, but I never get tired of playing my DMD sterns - GOTLE, POTC, TWD and MET.

Only a half shame; I love WOZ, but I never "got" TZ (even though I love the theme).

It would be hard for me to come up with 2 more shameful things than those
To each their own of course

And ST!

Well I enjoy the hell out of my Hobbit Smaug! And so do the guys on my league that come over to play. And it is beautiful!! You just have to set it up proper! And it's shocking how many people don't know how to do this.

because they are a meaningless high school popularity contest?

Game can be fun - but it's also polarizing due to its style of play.

Peppermill had a decent line-up.. but they aren't well taken care of. Atlantis had TWD and it was in shambles. Not sure what u two are posturing about, but I used to live in sparks. Press Start has a much better assortment of games than every casino combined in Reno.

Ok, I barely have any time on GNR, but the one on location I played felt seriously underpowered. Do JJP games have weak flippers? I felt like I was playing a game that was 30-years overdue for a flipper rebuild.

They are not as powerful as sterns for sure.
Many peeps say they are prone to be weak 9n location, as they aren't as likely to increase the power like you would at home.
Also many people say they get weak over time.

Another group says anything anyone says aboot them that isn't glowing are imagining the entire thing.

Also.. now that I'm in Jacksonville, the bar Leaderboard has a TNA and RM. They have a DI as well. Then an assortment of Sterns and some older releases of various makes. If Reno is your barometer for pinball, I feel sorry for you. Pinball in Reno until we found press start was terrible. Peppermill arcade is a nightmare of kids and sticky fingers.

The flippers on my DI feel weak but make every shot without issue. But the one we played at the bar was not good. I agree that in a home setting you can dial them in better (see what I did there?). Stern definitely has a lot more zip, I usually turn them down a bit. Seems the nature of the beast on JJP pins. To me they all seem a little lifeless, but the RM I played was the same way. It was frustrating. The TNA was great. Can't say a stern I've played recently lacked flipper strength.

JJP games all play slow and “floaty” to me. Flippers are underpowered for sure.

people that focus on how much crap is on a JJP game, don't really play their games or know what they are doing when playing. JJP is a crapfest of clutter and confusion. Most are just not fun. Can't see shit because the GI's are fawking terrible. Inserts are brighter than the GI's, so it's like playing on your front window with the sun shining in. Every insert is lit all the time, so you have no idea what's going on, and the rules are overly complex where you just stop giving a shit. I would never give up a footprint of my collection for any JJP game to date.

Stern is great at mixing fun rules, with short term objectives that are clear to understand and fun to strive for, while making the rules just deep enough for the long haul. JJP could learn many things from stern when it comes to layouts and coding.

This. This all day. Jack wanted to be the Anti-Stern, and concentrated on making things pretty first. And that’s great. But you can’t fall down on getting what Stern does well at least comparable. And you can’t start your code baseline at TSPP complex and shoot for the moon from there.

To each their own I guess... We love our Pirates and it spells out what to do, you just have to know where to look. What do I know though, I don't know how to or play my games.

My Hobbit was floaty too. It has to be at 7.1 - 7.2 pitch to play right and you need to adjust flipper power. Then it's not floaty at all anymore! This nearly maxes out the rear levelers with the front ones at minimum. Most Hobbits were never set up this way as JJP misprinted the pitch as I understand it. Bad examples in the wild turned everyone off. That and early code issues.

My friend installed PinMonk’s fans on his GNR, and I installed them on my Stranger Things. I would say they’re needed on both. So it’s not specific to JJP. But I’ve NEVER played an American Pinball game that felt right in the flippers.

I've never actually felt flipper fade in my JJP or Sterns; luckily.

Wow...First off, you saying JJP games are not fun is your opinion, please stop acting like that is the way everyone feels as it's not. Yourself and other Stern fanboys often make these sweeping negative generalized comments about JJP games "not being fun" and it's old. Those types of comments instead come across as bitterness, maybe because deep down you are pissed (but won't openly admit it) that Stern more often then not doesn't include as much in their games compared to JJP and you know they should be considering these insane prices.

I'm happy to have a mixture of JJP and Stern games in my collection, both companies make fun pins. Just bought a NIB TMNT Premium and will be getting a NIB GNR LE later this month.

You repeat yourself ad nauseum, I’m willing to bet the vast majority prefer a fun shooter vs the amount of toys or mechs a game has. JJP can’t even get the most important mech of a pin right, the flippers.

WTF. So you dont like the lights and you struggle learning code that doesnt invlove anything more complicated than "shoot the coloured lights"?

You're missing out on some great games. But you do you.

If Jack hadn’t coming out swinging and bashing Stern in 2012, there would be a lot fewer haters. I love what Charlie is doing at Spooky, and I like that he’s a gentleman about it and he has a lot of humility. Jack could learn a few things from him. Spooky’s layouts are not for me, but I love the innovations and the art.

I hope it’s not controversial to say that JJP has the elaborate mechs and toys, but Stern has better layouts. Quality is about the same for both, but Stern is better about addressing problems. JJP has more elaborate code, and are great for home play. Stern’s games are more accessible, are great for location play and tournaments. We’re fortunate to have a lot of choices right now.

Hmmm, I've bought multiple JJP pins because they are fun shooters and are loaded. People are not spending $9k+ on these games just to stare at them or because they don't understand the rules lol. You can have both a fun layout + multiple mechs / features in a game! Stern has proved that as well with a number of their titles.

I just don't understand the hate that yourself and others have towards JJP. It comes across as bitterness.

I LOVE pinball , I own Stern and JJP titles. Not as many players have had the opportunity to enjoy a JJP title in their home. This is where JJP games really shine. On location and especially tournament play I would say Stern all day long.

Exactly - I love Stern games also - id probably say that on balance I prefer them over all manufacturers - but I really dont understand this need to vomit bullshit hyperbole about one manufacturer or the other.

I guess it gets attention on a forum.

People feel like they have to pick a side, but even worse than that they don't even realize how bad they are. Panzer upvoted you FFS, #1 Stern basher for years. does he even know?

My criticism towards Stern is not about fun factor, pretty much every game they have released is fun. My criticism directed towards Stern has more often then not been about value and what Stern is including (or not including) in their games considering the insane prices.

That #1 Stern basher you labeled has bought multiple NIB Stern games over the past 10 years so your statement is false. Just recently I bought a NIB TMNT premium and love it

You really do say the same stuff over and over again. I try not to post much but I don't know how many times I have seen you post these exact statements here over and over, even about your new TMNT. We get you don't like what you think is the lack of toys in a Stern, not everyone is looking for toys. For instance a lot of people on this site love Stern Star Wars and a lot of people hate it. Almost no toys but it has flow for days and the game, the actual way the game is set up with the modes and video from the movie is a blast for some people to play. Not everyone wants a lot of toys, Stern doesn't have to put mechs all over the place to create an enjoyable game, that's what a lot of people are paying for and they are more than happy to do so. I myself don't like a ton of mechs all over the place but I also don't want to play a boring game. I will be honest I have only played JJP Hobbit, loved the theme thought the game was fun but I need a lot more time with it to really love it, hate it, or feel indifferent. People love their games both JJP and Sterns for different reasons, some want the machine to have loads of mechs, others don't want to feel like they are chopping wood and want something with lots of flow and I think that's what stern tries to give, are they always successful, no but they do pump out more options. Now don't think I am saying that JJP is choppy or has no flow because that's not what I am saying that's just the experience some have with the machines.
My point is this after the exuberant amount of post we know your feelings on the matter, so until you come up with something else to say please for the love of pinball quit saying the same thing in every thread. Ohh and you calling anyone a fanboy is hilarious.

We're familiar with it

LOL

I'll keep posting what I want thank you, and it's not the same thing over and over. Some of you guys can't stand any criticism directed at Stern, even if its constructive. I'm so sorry I suggested a physical ball lock would have been nice on LZ, damn lol. Hell, I've made multiple threads criticizing JJP so I'm not sure what your point is.

This thread is years old and is still the same script. Huh…

Thought Stern and JJP may have been further along by now. Not financially but ethically.

Not sure why this thread was necroed, but it’s hilarious how it just continues like it was started yesterday haha.

Sure, even cheerleaders get mad at their own team sometimes.

Cool! I'm not stopping, put me on ignore finally if you can't stand it.

You actually showed a lot of progress lately and I was proud of you. I think it's just this thread that's dragging you back down.

Actually, after reading a few of the first pages (lots of posts have not aged well to say the least) I realized which link to paste when people act like they know how to run a pinball company. Or how Stern doesn’t know what they’re doing. Yikes.

My HotWheels flippers feel perfectly fine. But, I never played the first two American pins, so I wouldn't know about those.