Regarding the play field dimples on SW posted earlier.

I have a vintage 10 years old Potc that looks almost new, has 800+ plays not that many that I’d expect all dimples to even out. Most of my light play Stern pins look the same.

I know that’s still new to some routed games but I’d except that Potc PF was made of stronger stuff. Has some dimples but not god awful.

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Hard to tell in pics. But the dimples in your second one look similar to what I’ve seen on SW playfields.

Stern now manufactures expensive toys as opposed to commercial vending equipment.

Stern should contract out for pinball sized ping pong balls to include with their games. It'll help with the cratering.

This is exactly why I just ordered a TNA.

I think more games were made in 1977.That was my point.Pinball is at its smallest ever.Price increases doesnt correlate to members of this hobby.Why would more hobbiest lead to increased prices?At least i dont think so.All I can say is I havent noticed a huge increase in the hobby.I feel like its 20 in,20 out.And of all the people who get in,not all of them are buying NIB games.The more i think about it the only NIB buyers I know are operators.

I come on here to discuss,not argue.

I'll glady take SW with dimples thank you very much, this thread sucks. How the hell can you even compare the 2, Gorgar's gameplay doesn't exactly lend itself to fast action with the ball jumping around now does it? I like the game and its a classic but the comparison is completely ridiculous. I wish the mods would close this thread already its getting more and more stupid every day.

Mic drop!

I love Stern games. I play on route at a place that has all the classics....and I rarely play them. They seem quaint and tame. Often beautiful, and well designed, but I’m addicted to the sound and light and excitement of the modern Stern games. I was playing a game of Circus Voltaire, and couldn’t wait for it to be over so I could play a new Stern. And I haven’t played a whole lot of CV either. I’d just rather play AS, GOTG, BM66 or SW! I dropped 3 quarters in an MMr - adore the game! - and then proceeded to drop $10 bucks into new Sterns for the rest of the afternoon. Upon returning home I’m in withdrawal from playing AS, and wishing I’d played SW more to understand it better.

Stern makes fun, exciting games. I hope to own many, methodically working them through my modest collection. Frankly 8k games are out for me, so as much a Id like a DI it’s off the table. I lust for a NIB Stern... but would I buy NIB with all their QC problems these last 2 years? Probably not. Does Spike concern me a little? Hell yes. Do I want to exhaust all the fun out of a game in my house before it even gets its final code (often years later?)...nope. Been there/done that. DRAG.

There is no reason why all the sentiments expressed in this post cant be true. Saying the thread is stupid is being willfully obtuse and stubbornly selfish, and does a disservice to people trying to understand the true “Stern of the Union”.

Gorgar yes

NIB Sterns hell noooooo

Where are all the people with NIB Stern issues?
All I'm seeing is non-Stern owners telling everyone else about how bad NIB Sterns are.
Not that there aren't any out there, but I'm not convinced it's any greater than any other manufacturer.

I just bought an AFMrLE. If you think it doesn't have it's share of issues, you are sadly mistaken.
Check the thread. Auto-plunger not 100%, chipping playfield, slanted UFO drop bank, flipper springs breaking after few games...
Fortunately, my issues are only with the auto-plunger. Hoping to have that tweaked.

My buddy bought a DILE. Same goes there.

These are REAL issues that I've witnessed firsthand.
Your complaints come across much more like slander.

No its not this thread is stupid, bottom line and you just proved it "Stern of the Union" WTF does that mean?

You see, stupid.

Seriously? The “Stern of the Union” is Sterns new “communication” campaign to their fans. Only it doesn’t address any of their problems, just rah-rah. Hell, I just read that there’s an important repair bulletin to help prevent node boards from breaking/blowing...but it wasn’t in their Stern of the Union address. Stern buyers had to figure it out word of mouth....from each other.

And whoever brought up the term “slander”...right.

Re dimples: the GOTG I play on route has got some serious dimpling starting. Deep dimples, not what I would expect...and certainly not “common through the years”. I had a NIB AC/DC Prem that I don’t recall ever noticing dimpling on. When I got my lightly played IM...no dimpling. Lightly played LOTR...none. TFLE? Nope. Only my AVLE (NIB) had some noticeable dimpling...but the kind you’d expect, not the type of wide, deep crators I saw on the brand new GOTG.

Uhhh... more buyers chasing the same inventory = drives prices up as demand grows faster than supply. More home owners buy NIB than ever before... driving the ASP of games and tolerances for higher prices in that audience. When comparing to a 5k NIB game... a 3k used game looks "cheap"... when that same game used to sell for 1500. So the price tolerance increases... driving up used game prices even more. More money chasing the same inventory equals higher prices.

I've never heard of that, wish I never did. Thanks

It's supposed to be an attempt to better communicate and keep their customers informed of things that are going on Hazoff. Who knows how it will turn out but a little communication would be a good thing for sure. It sure beats them being silent and never saying anything at all. If there is one area that stern needs to improve on, it's definitely their customer relations.

I agree with that and hope they improve communication, its the phrase "Stern of the Union" that I wish I never heard, forget it.

Yep we discussed in length that "catchy" title

Leo Burnett is rolling over in his grave....

I don't care what they call it, I just wanna know when my AS and GB code is coming!!

I have had major issues with my last 2 NIBs Sterns, but I haven't wasted time posting about it a tonne a.k.a bitching and moaning, as that doesn't fix shit in my books.

So I spent the time dealing with Stern direct and other than having to chase up alot more than I should have to, the resolution has been perfect, Pat and John B even Gary have been great overall, ultimately made sure I was happy and then some.

Problems certainly shouldn't have happened out of the box but they resolved them which in the end is what matters, thanks again guys in case your reading

I can confirm at least one new collector is in the market. A close friend of mine. Invited him to my place for one of my monthly pin parties. The next week he joined the local league. Within less then 60 days he spent $$$$$ on several games. He first wanted the new sterns SW and GOTG based on theme alone. But after playing a SW and AFMRMLE He bought the AFMRMLE. Then a used MMRLE. The other games he bought were EBD, EATPM and a mint HUO Stern POTC. He's still thinking about purchasing a GOTG Prem (doesn't like the gold trim on LE at all) but has already learned to wait to see what the code will be like. However if the next CGC remake comes out before code is good. He's buying and an XXRMLE instead of the GOTG. So moral of the story is 1: yes there are new collectors out there jumping in feet first and 2: Stern needs to get with it or they will keep losing sales. I am also looking to make my first NIB purchase this coming year with the new Elvira pin. However if it's plagued with issues and lack of code I'll pass on it.

I've had great experience with the Stern folks as well. They are very responsive and have taken care of me for almost 15 years (my first 2 NIB pins were LOTR & TSPP).

From my perspective, discussing NIB pin problems isn't "wasting time" if you stick to the problems/solutions. I recently purchased my first JJP pin and wrote about my issues (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96). Many DI owners sent me PM's thanking me for the post. The post helps folks with similar problems and hopefully provides some useful feedback to the pinball manufacturer.

JJP support folks have been helpful with sending me low level parts, but JJP management has been incredibly unresponsive when compared with Stern.

snaroff

Using specific examples is difficult...I've owned MANY Sterns over 15 years and purchased my first JJP pin on 10/26 (DILE).

Logistically speaking, I expect a company to return phone calls and emails in a timely fashion. What do I consider timely? 1 week. I sent JJP management a cordial email on my DILE issues on 11/18 and never received a response. Today, I'm happy to report Jack sent me an email to discuss my issues. I'm hopeful we will arrive at a win/win resolution.

I sent Stern management an email on 12/7 and received a response on 12/7...5 hours later IIRC. I was having some issues with my recently purchased AS. I also wanted to bend management's ear on the ridiculous pegs they continue to ship (since it effected my ability to repair the damaged flipper I received).

Just to be clear, both JJP support (Frank, Steve) and Stern support (Pat) are responsive. No issues on getting simple parts ordered. I'm talking about responsiveness on issues that aren't easily handled by the guys in the support trenches.

snaroff

I've had the exact opposite experiences. When my playfield and cabinet were bad on my GB I was told on a few different occasions I would get return calls, never did, waited at least a week every time. I probably put in 10+ phone calls to my dist and Stern before the issues were resolved with zero calls received and this went unresolved for probably close to six months. I've put in a few calls to JJP service/started a ticket and have had very quick follow-ups. Jen even replied to me on a weekend!

I know that Stern's lack of schematics is regretful. I'd like to design some circuits for them and now have to figure out how to do that. No problem with my Chicago Gaming machine.

So I have to tinker around with someone's machine that will allow me to probe its innards.

Would you buy a car you couldn't service except by replacing just the major parts like engine, transmission, electrical system, etc.? Your strategy is hope it doesn't fail. And we all now hope isn't a strategy.

I’ve been playing a lot of the newer Sterns a lot on route recently, and they are fun as hell - beautiful - for the most part. If they paid more attention to the details and handled their code better, threads like this probably wouldn’t exist.

I understand the support Stern gets, but it’s frustrating too, because Stern can do better, but if they see no incentive to improve they probably won’t.

Stern should have plenty of incentive. CGC, JJP, and Spooky are producing some really nice games. AFMr (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afmr-an-le-that-feels-like-an-le), DI, and TNA are all pretty sweet. American Pinball also looks promising. All these companies are competing for the same slots in pinball lineups.

From my perspective, belly aching about Stern on Pinside is therapy, but unlikely to have an impact. If you want bend Stern's ear on an issue, contact Stern's leaders directly. I've been a loyal customer for over 15 years and my attitude about Stern products has changed over time, however they do respect solid feedback from loyal customers. I recently bent their ear on an issue and believe they were very receptive to my feedback.

snaroff

Absolutely. Telling your Distro exactly why you're not buying the current Stern LE (after having bought the last few) is likely the most effective feedback.

Very true.

My buddy has 30+ pins and we were both in on Iron Maiden LE. I was already wavering due to the myriad of issues and of course it's been delayed, to which he said "Good!" I was actually surprised at his response, as he can handle any repairs that are needed, but he isn't about to deal with split cabs and play field issues. Yea, I am sure 2 others will fill our spots, but to me, if he is wavering, that's a problem for Stern.

Doesn't help I played his Dialed In last night. That game is awesome.. But so was his TWDLE. Long story short, Stern just needs to get it's QA tightened up and quit going cheap and they will once again be a "No Second Thoughts" purchase.

You were both in on Iron Maiden LE, a game that hasn't even been announced yet? Yeah that makes sense.

Iron Maiden got delayed alright.

They are still trying to figure out how to work "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter" into the mix without Trudeau.

LOL!

Well the distro we go through put us on their list in case it was released. Same thing we did for Metallica when it was just a rumor, that's how we ended up with 199 and 200. Point being, at this point it wouldn't matter how bad ass game would have been announced, it's a no go until Stern gets in shape.

I haven't been seeing too many complaints lately. If you are waiting for them to be 100% perfect though you will never buy another new game ever because that's never going to happen. I wouldn't be afraid to buy a new game right now personally. Thats just me though.

Spike system is a lemon and problematic. There has been plenty of complaints, but most are keeping quiet because they fear it will De-value their games. I used to defend stern all the time, just like you , still love my Iron man and metle. I too was in on the IM LE , but I’m out for the same reason, too many issues, iam a fearless repair man, but in this case I will pass until the current operating system is proven

What scares me longer term is that a Spike 2 CPU board is $999 whereas same board on Spike 1 is $400.

I am very likely to buy an Iron Maiden if the code is good ( will wait for sure... ) but node boards certainly make me pause big time.

Those boards probably cost them in the region of $50-70, too.

The mark up is absolutely inexcusable.

Almost the only conceivable reason you'd buy one is because it's faulty.

SAM and WhiteStar boards being expensive (but not this expensive) was acceptable because they very rarely failed, were repairable, and had fuses.

Spike 1 & 2 fail all the time, aren't repairable and aren't fused

I disagree 1000% with the Spike system being a lemon and problematic. I know too many people who own and route spike system games and there are not tons of issues at all. I’m not saying it’s great or better than the previous system, but it’s not a lemon either so get real. Second of all, I am not defending Stern at all. If there is a problem with whatever, I have no problem calling them out on it but I’m not going to make shit up either like you just did.

If you think that's funny, then you have to wonder which two songs will be on Iron Maiden when it does get released.

Sad to say but the same 2 from GOTG...I mean they already have the license and all.

Now is a great time to buy a NIB Stern.

If it’s TWD or MET

Anything else = incomplete/buggy

What about GOT, SMVE, AC/DCVE, AS, KISS, SW, GB? Those are all pretty solid titles. BM66 is coming around pretty good also finally.

It's not all bad. I do however disagree that the spike systems reliability is total crap. I know way too many people who own spike system games that have no problems what so ever.

Dude, don't bother. It's beyond logic.
Look at the AFMrLE thread. Look at the JJP Dialed In thread. Look at the Alien thread.
Then ignore them all, and state that many Stern owners are just hiding their issues.
So much for providing evidence.

Edit... I don’t want to bicker