A dark night for Stern

(Topic ID: 200173)

A dark night for Stern


By jfh

1 year ago



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There are 1860 posts in this topic. You are on page 33 of 38.
#1601 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Possibly true but I can tell you from experience that my TWD and GOT both looked really bad and they look 100% better now after 1600-1700 plays on them. Not sure if they were that bad or not but they had some massive crater like dimples in them. I do believe the camera makes it look a little worse because he is zoomed in big time when he took that picture.

I've had a couple of TWD and all get some dimpling in area by the upper magnet and in the center of the playfield. Those were all just minor clear/wood depressions from air ball hits that definitely do get better over time and slowly go away. This SW is pretty much a brand new game with craters instead of dimples. It might get better over time but that crap is not going away. A few BM66 has similar issues. It almost looks like the cc is not properly cured more then the wood is soft. If you look you can see large ones were the cc had been shifted buy the ball strike. Definitely not normal or OK in my opinion. Likely just a bad playfield for whatever reason.

15
#1602 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He can say whatever he wants, doesn't make it true. Just believe whatever you want to believe I guess. My belief is the camera makes it look worse that what it really is and I also believe that it will get better the more that it's played. I believe that because I have personally experiencd what he is looking at with 2 of my games and they look good now. I'm not saying that is normal or ok or anything like that, just telling you what my experience was.

Ok, if you are so convinced, would you buy it from him seeing those pictures ? You know it will flatten out perfectly

Maybe he just got a bad playfield, that does not make him a liar and his problem is real. Maybe that is possible also ?

10
#1603 1 year ago

I will throw this out again. My routes Gorgar is 38 years old and no dimples and sure as hell no craters like that Star Wars. Paint loss, planking and other things but it took almost 40 years with THOUSANDS of plays.

#1604 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

I will throw this out again. My routes Gorgar is 38 years old and no dimples and sure as hell no craters like that Star Wars. Paint loss, planking and other things but it took almost 40 years with THOUSANDS of plays.
» YouTube video

It doesn't have a cc

-7
#1605 1 year ago

If it would have had a modern clear from the factory it would still look like a new machine. Everybody knows clearcote makes wood soft.

#1606 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

If it would have had a modern clear from the factory it would still look like a new machine. Everybody knows clearcote makes wood soft.

What in the world are you talking about? That game is 38 years old and any spots that would have dimpled a little would have long since smoothed out. It also isn't a game that has air balls or magnets or ramps or places that would cause a lot of wear other then around the pops. Who said cc makes wood soft? Today's cc that stern is using is obviously softer then what was used in the 90's or it is not being applied or cured properly in a few cases like the SW pictured. You can literally see spots were the cc is shifted on that game from ball strikes.

#1607 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Ok, if you are so convinced, would you buy it from him seeing those pictures ? You know it will flatten out perfectly
Maybe he just got a bad playfield, that does not make him a liar and his problem is real. Maybe that is possible also ?

I'd have to see it with my own eyes and not a picture that he took with a camera that is zoomed in to the max. I never called him a liar either by the way. I'm telling you though that my TWD and my GOT both looked like shit and had craters in them. I wasn't happy about it believe me but to my surprise they have smoothed out alot and look pretty damn good right now. They just look like a very fine orange peel or something now, you can't even hardly notice it really. No more big craters at all.

#1608 1 year ago

Given some of the early comments about the state of the code shipping on GOTG, it appears Stern isn't worried at all that buyers are going to hold off buying games until the code is decent and mature.

Does this indicate more of the same from Stern and reinforce Gary's "Box of lights" comment at Expo or is this an unfortunate byproduct of moving GOTG up early because of the Treadeau situation? Is this just an anomaly like Batman 66 or does Stern really believe that the number of sales lost because of code state is inconsequential?

22
#1609 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He can say whatever he wants, doesn't make it true. Just believe whatever you want to believe I guess. My belief is the camera makes it look worse that what it really is and I also believe that it will get better the more that it's played. I believe that because I have personally experiencd what he is looking at with 2 of my games and they look good now. I'm not saying that is normal or ok or anything like that, just telling you what my experience was.

1700 plays is nothing for a route game, geez... I just don't know what to say at this point. That looks like a garbage playfield. End of story.

You can defend it all you want, but honestly you sound more like someone clinging to a view of a geocentric universe at this point rather than a rational human being. Stern ships some crap, its no secret...

#1610 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

any spots that would have dimpled a little would have long since smoothed out. It also isn't a game that has air balls or magnets or ramps or places that would cause a lot of wear other then around the pops.

Look closely under the plastics and at the edge of the plastics on the playfield. There is no line where the edge is and you can tell where the ball does touch is the exact same and not compressed. Wood can't "smooth" out where it can't get touched.

How come CPR playfields I do have with magnets and ramps do not have a single dimple either?

Oh and it does airball. Every shot off the post by the snake pit airballs.

#1611 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

Look closely under the plastics and at the edge of the plastics on the playfield. There is no line where the edge is and you can tell where the ball does touch is the exact same and not compressed. Wood can't "smooth" out where it can't get touched.
How come CPR playfields I do have with magnets and ramps do not have a single dimple either?

You are taking a game that doesn't create air balls and doesn't have the crazy powered flippers of a modern stern. There's nothing on the game to create dimples. No older games have the crazy magnet action, crazy air balls from targets, or balls flying off ramps that modern sterns have either. If you want to argue that those are major design flaws that are causing it then I hear you. The only older game that I have owned that dimpled similar was a BBB, those targets by the ramps create major airballs and really dimple up the middle of the playfield. If you are saying the wood is harder on older games and on cpr playfields that may be 100% true, but if you sent that Gorgar to stern and they put the exact cc that they did on the SW in question it's going to have a pile of dimples because something is not right. It may be a mix of wood and cc issues.

#1612 1 year ago

The clear is just a coating. Hardened clear can't dimple without the wood giving underneath.
But.. I really don't care because I would rather buy a fun $400 game and put $1500 into it. That's part of the fun to me, the project. Carry on.

#1613 1 year ago

I wish I was surprised that people still pretend all dimples are the same and completely normal. The denial on display here is just kind of sad. I have to go back and check out the Star Wars on route near me. I played it when it was a week old and the playfield was already showing signs it was going to be just like the one in this thread. There is clearly something wrong with playfields so far it seems pretty remote. Hopefully only a very small percentage got out like this and hopefully Stern will replace them. No way I could take the plunge on a NIB there is just always something.

-1
#1614 1 year ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

1700 plays is nothing for a route game, geez... I just don't know what to say at this point. That looks like a garbage playfield. End of story.
You can defend it all you want, but honestly you sound more like someone clinging to a view of a geocentric universe at this point rather than a rational human being. Stern ships some crap, its no secret...

Just because it's a route game doesn't mean that it can't have a low number of plays on it lol. Did you ever think that maybe it was just put on route recently or maybe it just doesn't get played alot?

20
#1615 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He can say whatever he wants, doesn't make it true

Then be a man and drive to Chapel Hill, NC and take your alternative facts photos.

Otherwise your are nothing but an ass for calling me a liar.

21
#1616 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Then be a man and drive to Chapel Hill, NC and take your alternative facts photos.
Otherwise your are nothing but an ass for calling me a liar.

He's been Stern's chief shill, apologist and BS'er on these forums for well over a year now.

#1617 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

The clear is just a coating. Hardened clear can't dimple without the wood giving underneath.
But.. I really don't care because I would rather buy a fun $400 game and put $1500 into it. That's part of the fun to me, the project. Carry on.

Does that clear look hardened to you properly? If you haven't owned a recent stern most of the last several releases starting with GOT have crazy thick cc and all of them seem to dimple a little worse. A few like the SW in question are extreme examples are not the norm and obviously have something that did not apply correctly. There are dimples on that SW in areas were there is nothing to cause an air ball to create the dimples.

#1618 1 year ago

Stern clearly has many many quality issues. It's very apparent that cost is more important than quality lately. They do make very pretty games - I'll give them that...the old saying lipstick on a pig is starting to be relevant here. No way I would chance a NIB with countless issues they have (and yes I do have a deposit on a NIB game from another company).

11
#1619 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I never called him a liar either by the way.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

He can say whatever he wants, doesn't make it true.

Sorry, you did.

Edit: wanted to add that we can go on about this all day, but in the end there is a bad playfield and you will not even consider the possibility that that can happen. So I am going to leave it at that. I hope you never have any problems with your machines such as I did with multiple nodeboards that took months to resolve and a bad playfield that has yet to be changed.

#1620 1 year ago

I CALL FAKE NEWS! He works at stern and hopes you keep playing your pin in the hope it flatens out, and then your warranty is expired and they dont have to send you a new playfield

#1621 1 year ago
Quoted from jorro:

I CALL FAKE NEWS! He works at stern and hopes you keep playing your pin in the hope it flatens out, and then youre warranty is expired and they dont have to send you a new playfield

Playfields are not covered by the Stern warranty

#1622 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

He's been Stern's chief shill, apologist and BS'er on these forums for well over a year now.

You have to wonder.....

#1623 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

He's been Stern's chief shill, apologist and BS'er on these forums for well over a year now.

I just hope he is paid for it and doesn't really believe everything he says.

#1624 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He can say whatever he wants, doesn't make it true. Just believe whatever you want to believe I guess. My belief is the camera makes it look worse that what it really is and I also believe that it will get better the more that it's played. I believe that because I have personally experiencd what he is looking at with 2 of my games and they look good now. I'm not saying that is normal or ok or anything like that, just telling you what my experience was.

Lol. I’m pretty sure they call that “denial”.

#1625 1 year ago

Whoa Ladies!

Simmer on a down a notch or two

Put your big boy panties on and quit stressing out about a couple of dimple craters

When someone can prove to me that it affects how the balls rolls or my enjoyment of the pin THEN and only THEN will I go into panic mode like you ladies

#1626 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Then be a man and drive to Chapel Hill, NC and take your alternative facts photos.
Otherwise your are nothing but an ass for calling me a liar.

Wow...really dude? I never called you a liar so I think you need to chill out a little.

#1627 1 year ago
Quoted from jorro:

I CALL FAKE NEWS! He works at stern and hopes you keep playing your pin in the hope it flatens out, and then your warranty is expired and they dont have to send you a new playfield

I wish that I did because after 34 years at my current job, I really need a break and working for a pinball company would be a refreshing change believe me.

#1628 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Whoa Ladies!
Simmer on a down a notch or two
Put your big boy panties on and quit stressing out about a couple of dimple craters
When someone can prove to me that it affects how the balls rolls or my enjoyment of the pin THEN and only THEN will I go into panic mode like you ladies

Lol, come on ice. Vader looks like a distorted mutant. You would not be happy with that and neither would I. It's an outlier and not the norm but it is what it is.

#1629 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Lol, come on ice. Vader looks like a distorted mutant. You would not be happy with that and neither would I. It's an outlier and not the norm but it is what it is.

Careful, if you keep shining him on he'll have another drink or three and order a GOTG out of spite!

14
#1630 1 year ago

I think who-dey needs to step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath. It's not a personal attack on you. You don't need to take the role of Stern's only defender on Pinside. It's going to give you a stroke!

The SW pf in the pic was clearly a piece of sh*t and needs to be replaced. But it looks like an isolated incident. Doesn't mean it didn't happen and is acceptable. Go into the DI thread and check out the chipping pf's. I think we live in an era of crap Pf's.

Stern make great games, JJP make great games, Spooky make great games. They each have their Achilles heels. So what? Does it mean we shouldn't talk about issues when they arise?

Stern is a big target because they're the biggest producer. They pushed the profitability envelope too far and now they're getting pushed back. Consequently there is a lot of anti Stern sentiment at the moment. But they'll listen and they'll work it out. Maybe not as much as some would like, but enough so that they're still be the biggest pinball producer in the world.

#1631 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I think who-dey needs to step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath. It's not a personal attack on you. You don't need to take the role of Stern's only defender on Pinside. It's going to give you a stroke!
The SW pf in the pic was clearly a piece of sh*t and needs to be replaced. But it looks like an isolated incident. Doesn't mean it didn't happen and is acceptable. Go into the DI thread and check out the chipping pf's. I think we live in an era of crap Pf's.
Stern make great games, JJP make great games, Spooky make great games. They each have their Achilles heels. So what? Does it mean we shouldn't talk about issues when they arise?
Stern is a big target because they're the biggest producer. They pushed the profitability envelope too far and now they're getting pushed back. Consequently there is a lot of anti Stern sentiment at the moment. But they'll listen and they'll work it out. Maybe not as much as some would like, but enough so that they're still be the biggest pinball producer in the world.

Im not mad at all and I'm not defending stern for real. I am just sharing my experience that I had with GOT and TWD. They looked horrible within the first few hundred plays....craters I promise you and now they look pretty damn good believe it or not. I'm also just stating the facts that a camera will magnify those dimples and make then look even worse than they really are. If you don't believe me try it for yourself.

Also I am not saying that it's normal or ok or anything like that. I will admit that it doesn't look good. I'm also smart enough to know though that they are using thicker clearcoat than ever before, games play a hell of alot faster than ever before, and there are alot of air balls in these newer games than ever before. Playfields take way more of a beating these days.

I also know that when you are standing there playing that you aren't seeing what that picture is showing because you have to be in the perfect light at the perfect angle. I'm betting that playfield will be just fine after a 1500-2000 plays. Those big dimples will turn into very fine orange peel like dimples. Will it ever smooth out totally? I don't know.....

#1632 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

I've seen two different TWD's reset within 24 hours
25+ miles apart
The next day I spoke w/the operator (a fella who visits here) & the dude said Stern is aware of the issue.
I'm glad you & others have yet to experience a modern Stern reset
So count your blessings... There's a reason you read about Stern power resets on Pinside. Because they happen.

Just sold my TWD Prem and never had this issue in about a dozen times at Horde. Maybe it has to do with these service bulletins?

#1633 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Playfields are not covered by the Stern warranty

At least SW Is so barren it shouldn’t be hard to swap out.

#1634 1 year ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

Just sold my TWD Prem and never had this issue in about a dozen times at Horde. Maybe it has to do with these service bulletins?

That's a different issue that I'm sure folks here would say doesn't exist either. (I appreciate the link however)

I know the Aerosmith @ CP lost half it's lighting (a power cycle resolved it) & something else that I cannot recall right now. It was either a reset or it locked up.

My Aerosmith has reset twice in apx 600 games. Not a lot but it's happened

I saw 2 different TWD reset within 24 hours that were miles apart. Now I will say my TWD has only reset once in maybe 1000 games & the operator of the other TWD said its happened on his game but its super rare & he's yet to experience it himself.

Its weird when folks talk about Spike resets or node board issues other Pinsiders act as if since they haven't experienced it then it must not exist.

Didn't one of the SW code revisions burn up some people's node boards?

#1635 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

That's a different issue that I'm sure folks here would say doesn't exist either. (I appreciate the link however)
I know the Aerosmith @ CP lost half it's lighting (a power cycle resolved it) & something else that I cannot recall right now. It was either a reset or it locked up.
My Aerosmith has reset twice in apx 600 games. Not a lot but it's happened
I saw 2 different TWD reset within 24 hours that were miles apart. Now I will say my TWD has only reset once in maybe 1000 games & the operator of the other TWD said its happened on his game but its super rare & he's yet to experience it himself.
Its weird when folks talk about Spike resets or node board issues other Pinsiders act as if since they haven't experienced it then it must not exist.
Didn't one of the SW code revisions burn up some people's node boards?

Yes and apparently the service bulletins are in response to that. They called it "playfield vibration" causing issues. So what about shakers? Does Stern not test these with shaker motors?

#1636 1 year ago

From Stern service bulletin 189.

Looks many Spike 2 users need
Capacitor Service Kit 502-7060-00
Core Node Stabilization Kit 502-7061-00

Disappointing I had to learn this from another Pinsider.

#1637 1 year ago
Quoted from jfh:

From Stern service bulletin 189.
Looks many Spike 2 users need
Capacitor Service Kit 502-7060-00
Core Node Stabilization Kit 502-7061-00
Disappointing I had to learn this from another Pinsider.

It is shocking that Stern can't send registered product owners an email. I'm sure there are many owners that aren't on Pinside.

snaroff

#1638 1 year ago

Now we know why Stern didn't show GOTG at Expo.

A Babalee Bo a Babalee bobo

#1639 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Now we know why Stern didn't show GOTG at Expo.
A Babalee Bo a Babalee bobo

homer (resized).jpg

18
#1640 1 year ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

Just sold my TWD Prem and never had this issue in about a dozen times at Horde. Maybe it has to do with these service bulletins?

Quoted from BillySastard:

What is madness? I've owned two TWD's and never had a reset.

Well well well

Look what the we have here

Lyman mother ducking (auto correct) Sheats says in the new TWD update notes

“Fixed a bug in the HORDE mode which would cause the game to reset when
the last walker was killed to advance to the next level”

I F’n told you guys! Over & over I’ve had to hear that I’m some fool but all this time it was everyone else’s shitty playing keeping them from advancing balls deep into Horde & resetting it.

Boooooooom!

Aaaaaand the F’n insert works now?!?!?

OMFG!

#1641 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Well well well
Look what the we have here
Lyman mother ducking (auto correct) Sheats says in the new TWD update notes
“Fixed a bug in the HORDE mode which would cause the game to reset when
the last walker was killed to advance to the next level”
I F’n told you guys! Over & over I’ve had to hear that I’m some fool but all this time it was everyone else’s shitty playing keeping them from advancing balls deep into Horde & resetting it.
Boooooooom!
Aaaaaand the F’n insert works now?!?!?
OMFG!

FULL POINTS!
Point out shit that's wrong and everyone jumps on you...that's lame.

#1642 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

FULL POINTS!
Point out shit that's wrong and everyone jumps on you...that's lame.

Agreed!

And the next motherducker to tell me Aerosmith doesn’t reset gets a kick in the nuts!

Just kidding, I don’t want to harm my pinball homies.

Much love and reggae music or whatever.

#1643 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Agreed!
And the next motherducker to tell me Aerosmith doesn’t resets gets a kick in the nuts!
Just kidding, I don’t want to harm my pinball homies.
Much love and reggae music or whatever.

My Aerosmith doesn't reset!

I don't have an Aerosmith

#1644 1 year ago

(Accidental post)

#1645 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

FULL POINTS!
Point out shit that's wrong and everyone jumps on you...that's lame.

Welcome to pinside. The rules are different for some.

#1646 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Well well well
Look what the we have here
Lyman mother ducking (auto correct) Sheats says in the new TWD update notes
“Fixed a bug in the HORDE mode which would cause the game to reset when
the last walker was killed to advance to the next level”
I F’n told you guys! Over & over I’ve had to hear that I’m some fool but all this time it was everyone else’s shitty playing keeping them from advancing balls deep into Horde & resetting it.
Boooooooom!
Aaaaaand the F’n insert works now?!?!?
OMFG!

I never doubted you on the reset Curly. You said you got a reset during Madness and Horde. I asked what Madness is so that when I get to Horde I can be on the lookout for the reset and hopefully pinpoint the problem. Guess I should've worded my post better.

#1647 1 year ago
Quoted from PW79:

Agreed!
And the next motherducker to tell me Aerosmith doesn’t reset gets a kick in the nuts!
Just kidding, I don’t want to harm my pinball homies.
Much love and reggae music or whatever.

My AS reset on me once in the middle of a good game, pissed me off!

#1648 1 year ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

I never doubted you on the reset Curly. You said you got a reset during Madness and Horde. I asked what Madness is so that when I get to Horde I can be on the lookout for the reset and hopefully pinpoint the problem. Guess I should've worded my post better.

I'm not really mad at ya. I'm just being a PW79

Quoted from pindude80:My AS reset on me once in the middle of a good game, pissed me off!

Good.... misery loves company lol

#1649 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

all the new games being produced

Like 4 a year(3 Stern 1JJP).How many "boutique" games?2?And how many do they make/sell?Its smaller then ever.Check your pinball history books.

#1650 1 year ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Like 4 a year(3 Stern 1JJP).How many "boutique" games?2?And how many do they make/sell?Its smaller then ever.Check your pinball history books.

So you think more new games were made and sold in 2007 than in 2017? My history book suggests otherwise. You were arguIng that there are net zero new pinball collectors and that the massive price increases the hobby has seen are attributable to existing hobbiests wanting more and more pins. I replied that I think a good part of the price increase is due to a significant growth in the total number of collectors, which increased demand for a finite resource even though more new pins are being made now than a decade ago.

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