(Topic ID: 200173)

A dark night for Stern


By jfh

2 years ago



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There are 1860 posts in this topic. You are on page 26 of 38.
#1251 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

It's looking like this thread will die on Tuesday when everyone goes nuts over the GOTG reveal (if the rumors are true). Nothing is going to change. Just look at the Batman 66 thread. Everyone was saying never again, then a code drop (over a year later and not even complete) and they are all back on board. No reason not to be happy to get code, but the Stern and Lyman love is back to full speed over there.

I think you are misreading the Batman 66 thread. Yes, everyone is excited that we got new code, and, to a lesser degree, that we have a general timetable for the next two updates. But I haven't seen anyone say - "Stern, all is forgiven. We have no problem buying GOTG or any other game sight unseen and regardless of code state".

I'm sure there will be some blind buyers of the next title, but hopefully there will be fewer and fewer until we see the direction referenced in the first post reversed.

12
#1252 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

It's looking like this thread will die on Tuesday when everyone goes nuts over the GOTG reveal (if the rumors are true). Nothing is going to change. Just look at the Batman 66 thread. Everyone was saying never again, then a code drop (over a year later and not even complete) and they are all back on board. No reason not to be happy to get code, but the Stern and Lyman love is back to full speed over there.

I think it will be much more muted this time, even if it's a decent machine (like AS). Way more people are very sceptical of everything Stern does, now.

Everyone will be watching like hawks to see what deficiencies it has, how quickly things fail or how bad the code is, and what if anything the response is.

No-one's going to just forget their recent conduct and failures, as it's been so persistent and long lasting.

#1253 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

It was a little more focused than that, and frankly, your early takes were off base. Now your back commenting on the OP leaving, but not people questioning your early opinion.
What’s up with that?

I can’t remember what I had for lunch yesterday much less what my “early take” was 2 weeks ago lol. Glad Someone else is cataloguing everything for me though. I’ll bow out at this time as I’m not sure what constitutes bickering anymore.

(Not announcing a drain! I’m not draining! I repeat, not draining! Just leaving!)

-1
#1254 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I'm not stifling anyone, just asking that comments and discussion be posted in the appropriate threads.
This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for an intelligent person to understand.

Tanks fer heppin me ot! Pleez let me no again win its OK ta thimk sumtin differnt.

#1255 2 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

Instead of Spike system, they should have called it 'Last Nail in Coffin' system.

I know several people bitch and complain about the new Spike system, but has there been any empirical data that supports the bitch session? I have a spike game and it seems fine.....that being said I also have a few on the Sam system. One has been fine, and one has been a nightmare....

#1256 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

It's looking like this thread will die on Tuesday when everyone goes nuts over the GOTG reveal (if the rumors are true). Nothing is going to change. Just look at the Batman 66 thread. Everyone was saying never again, then a code drop (over a year later and not even complete) and they are all back on board. No reason not to be happy to get code, but the Stern and Lyman love is back to full speed over there.

Wrong, go and read the BM66 thread, we are happy we finally got some half decent code, but in no way shape or form are a lot of the BM66 owners back on board, if anything most are now more cautious than ever moving forward.

And just to be clear the love for Lyman was never at question, as a group we where beginning to question what George was saying and if Lyman was truely on BM66 code full time but the disappointment and frustrations from owners was never aimed at him but more at Sterns radio silence handling of the situation and Gomez continually promising code and missing those windows time and time again.

Just wanted to clear that up, as the guys at Stern read these threads and I wouldn't want one persons misinterpretation of a thread be the post the coder/employee sees. I personally emailed Lyman to thank him for sticking by us owners with BM66 code and putting in the passion and thought that is evident in the recent code drop.

#1257 2 years ago

To the BM66 crowd, I apologize if I misinterpreted some of the comments in your thread. I have been quietly rooting for you on the sidelines. However, I really don't think we will see any change in overall behavior with the next Stern release. I mean, right after this thread was started, a GOTG hype thread was begun full of the usual "best ever" comments. This before one picture is released. Already Pinsiders are trying to get others to get their wallets out sight unseen...again. I actually do believe the majority (if not all) BM66 folks will show caution, but the Stern faithful will still put their money down to be first. And if it's a good game (gameplay and quality) then good for Stern, but can't the community show restraint and let the early adopters be the operators so that the HUO crowd doesn't have to be the test subjects? But hey, it's everyone's individual decision. Just...proceed with caution is my advice...and the general sentiment I think most would advise.

#1258 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I know several people bitch and complain about the new Spike system, but has there been any empirical data that supports the bitch session? I have a spike game and it seems fine.....that being said I also have a few on the Sam system. One has been fine, and one has been a nightmare....

Empirical data?
I personally have no observations to offer, but this guy does, and it makes sense to me.

#1259 2 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

Empirical data?
I personally have no observations to offer, but this guy does, and it makes sense to me.
» YouTube video

I saw that post a while back...he makes several good points, but the jury is still out....people always get nervous with a new platform....

#1260 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

To the BM66 crowd, I apologize if I misinterpreted some of the comments in your thread. I have been quietly rooting for you on the sidelines. However, I really don't think we will see any change in overall behavior with the next Stern release. I mean, right after this thread was started, a GOTG hype thread was begun full of the usual "best ever" comments. This before one picture is released. Already Pinsiders are trying to get others to get their wallets out sight unseen...again. I actually do believe the majority (if not all) BM66 folks will show caution, but the Stern faithful will still put their money down to be first. And if it's a good game (gameplay and quality) then good for Stern, but can't the community show restraint and let the early adopters be the operators so that the HUO crowd doesn't have to be the test subjects? But hey, it's everyone's individual decision. Just...proceed with caution is my advice...and the general sentiment I think most would advise.

Very good analysis! I’m a BM66 owner and believe that most BM66 big spenders will restrain themselves on GotG. Just a guess, but that would probably be less than a 10% hit on LEs. However, it might be a 50+% hit if Stern does SLEs again in the future, like say Elvira.

#1261 2 years ago
Quoted from taz:

Very good analysis! I’m a BM66 owner and believe that most BM66 big spenders will restrain themselves on GotG. Just a guess, but that would probably be less than a 10% hit on LEs. However, it might be a 50+% hit if Stern does SLEs again in the future, like say Elvira.

The only reason I want them to do another SLE is because I think it will fail big time and embarrass Stern.

#1262 2 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

Empirical data?
I personally have no observations to offer, but this guy does, and it makes sense to me.
» YouTube video

This guy was importing grey market NIB Sterns into Australia from an overseas supplier effectively bypassing the local distribution channel and publicly advertising them for sale below local distributor pricing.

When the local Aussie distributor heard about it they contacted Stern who flexed their muscle and shut off his supply (and thereby shutting off all the other Aussies who were doing the same thing but quietly).

This video showed up shortly after.

I'm no fan of Stern's recent quality efforts either and I make no secret of what I think of our entrenched monopolistic distribution system we have down here and it's effect on local pricing, but in this case I would say it is less about empirical data and more sour grapes due to pecuniary bias.

I doubt this video would have seen the light of day had the author not deliberately publicly rocked the supply boat beforehand.

#1263 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

To the BM66 crowd, I apologize if I misinterpreted some of the comments in your thread. I have been quietly rooting for you on the sidelines. However, I really don't think we will see any change in overall behavior with the next Stern release. I mean, right after this thread was started, a GOTG hype thread was begun full of the usual "best ever" comments. This before one picture is released. Already Pinsiders are trying to get others to get their wallets out sight unseen...again. I actually do believe the majority (if not all) BM66 folks will show caution, but the Stern faithful will still put their money down to be first. And if it's a good game (gameplay and quality) then good for Stern, but can't the community show restraint and let the early adopters be the operators so that the HUO crowd doesn't have to be the test subjects? But hey, it's everyone's individual decision. Just...proceed with caution is my advice...and the general sentiment I think most would advise.

Nobody is trying to get anyone to get their wallets out in the GOTG thread at all. It was just a fun thread that I started for people who are excited about the game that is coming out. It’s for people to talk about what they hope the game will have in it or be like etc. me or anyone else in that thread is trying to get anyone to buy GOTG in any way shape or form.

#1264 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I know several people bitch and complain about the new Spike system, but has there been any empirical data that supports the bitch session?

There isn't much data I've seen. And Stern certainly isn't going to say. The issues you hear about:
1) There are multiple versions of the same node board and they aren't necessarily interchangeable between games. This hampers, if not defeats, the stated design purpose of common node boards.
2) Expensive. $300 or so per board. Needs to be about $50 if these are to be treated as disposable/interchangeable parts.
3) No advance exchange program for operators. Game out of service longer if game is down.
4) No schematics. Repair not reasonable even for those with the proper equipment.
5) No fuse protection. See recent SW problem with code frying boards.
6) Too many boards failing while updating code

To Stern's credit, it seems like they are replacing bad boards for free even for games out of warranty. But who knows how long that will last.

#1265 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

if it's a good game (gameplay and quality) then good for Stern, but can't the community show restraint and let the early adopters be the operators so that the HUO crowd doesn't have to be the test subjects?

Stern is literally banking on the belief that most won't put their money where their mouth is. And then there is the "LE trap". Stern builds them first hoping to snare fans of the theme afraid of missing out before the game has any real track record (and well before anyone knows what the shipping code is like).

It's an easy trap to fall into. I bought Batman 66 in January when a NIB LE was offered to me when they were pretty much sold out. Batman 66 was a grail theme, the LE art and topper was terrific and Lyman was doing the code. It had been awhile since I bought a new Stern game. I didn't really know how significant the issues with playfields, cabinets and node boards were at the time (though I was concerned enough with potential PF issues that I put on a playfield protector almost day one). If I hadn't got the LE, I was prepared to wait a year or so for a Premium.

Will I do that again? No chance. I really want an Elvira LE and probably a GOTG. But I'm not an early buyer unless Stern shows sustained, significant improvement. If that means I don't get an LE, ok. In that case it's more likely than not that purchase becomes a JJP game.

I believe some will show restraint as you suggest. But I suspect not enough. Everyone is hoping that if there are issues they will happen to someone else, not them.

#1266 2 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

The only reason I want them to do another SLE is because I think it will fail big time and embarrass Stern.

Jesus, why do you want it to fail? wouldn't it be better if the game was amazing and we have another pin out there? I'm not a Spooky or JJP owner, as of yet they haven't made anything I would buy but I want them to be successful,WTF

10
#1267 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Jesus, why do you want it to fail? wouldn't it be better if the game was amazing and we have another pin out there? I'm not a Spooky or JJP owner, as of yet they haven't made anything I would buy but I want them to be successful,WTF

I'm not sure he wants the company to fail, perhaps just the SLE idea? I'd be with him on that. At least at the current value to price level.

$15K for a re-skinned pin, released with beta code and virtually identical (sans a few baubles and bolt ons) to the 'lower' priced model? Screw that.

If Stern wants to make SLE's go for it but dont elevate the price of the entire 'family' of pins below it because an SLE of that model exists.

-2
#1268 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

$15K for a re-skinned pin, released with beta code and virtually identical (sans a few baubles and bolt ons) to the 'lower' priced model? Screw that.
If Stern wants to make SLE's go for it but dont elevate the price of the entire 'family' of pins below it because an SLE of that model exists

no one said the for the company to fail, not sure where you got that and while I agree with you no one was forced into buying it, everyone knew the risks going in, just saying we are all to blame for Sterns business model as we keep buying the games, I know whats going to happen, almost always does, after mods and final code the pin will become a classic, the theme is certainly there, I hope so anyway for the owners. I stopped buying LE's after TWDLE, I felt let down by what they delivered for that kind of money, you know who I blame for that? me. I should have known that the smart move with Stern is to wait a year at least to let the game code mature, let the bugs get worked out, buy a HUO with all the trimmings, if enough pinheads decided to follow that motto Stern would have to respond, yet I bought SW pro right away, granted was pleasantly surprised to how complete the code was on day 1, hopefully GOTG follows suit in that department. Who doesn't want a better pin at a more reasonable price?

#1269 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

no one said the for the company to fail, not sure where you got that and while I agree with you no one was forced into buying it, everyone knew the risks going in, just saying we are all to blame for Sterns business model as we keep buying the games, I know whats going to happen, almost always does, after mods and final code the pin will become a classic, the theme is certainly there, I hope so anyway for the owners. I stopped buying LE's after TWDLE, I felt let down by what they delivered for that kind of money, you know who I blame for that? me. I should have known that the smart move with Stern is to wait a year at least to let the game code mature, let the bugs get worked out, buy a HUO with all the trimmings, if enough pinheads decided to follow that motto Stern would have to respond, yet I bought SW pro right away, granted was pleasantly surprised to how complete the code was on day 1, hopefully GOTG follows suit in that department. Who doesn't want a better pin at a more reasonable price?

Thats exactly the point.

If people would wise up and stop being suckered by sterns ridiculous money grabs stern would learn their lesson and stop the silliness.

12
#1270 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I stopped buying LE's after TWDLE, I felt let down by what they delivered for that kind of money, you know who I blame for that? me.

I was disappointed in my TWD LE when it arrived as well. Stern advertised it as having a real backglass...of course it ended up being a translight with mirrored ink on it. In the end, I've been very happy with the game, but Stern needs to stop over promising and under delivering on their games.

Stern needs to knock a game out of the park and really turn some heads.

#1271 2 years ago

Get ready for some big shocking news soon

#1272 2 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Get ready for some big shocking news soon

Hopefully its that they sold the company to CGC or JJP so they can put some quality back into their machines.....

10
#1273 2 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Get ready for some big shocking news soon

GOTG will be shipping with complete code, playfields that don't ghost, cabinets that stay together and node boards that don't fry?

#1274 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

GOTG will be shipping with complete code, playfields that don't ghost, cabinets that stay together and node boards that don't fry?

Im in

#1275 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

GOTG will be shipping with complete code, playfields that don't ghost, cabinets that stay together and node boards that don't fry?

Whoooooa there tiger! Let's not get crazy now....

#1276 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

GOTG will be shipping with complete code, playfields that don't ghost, cabinets that stay together and node boards that don't fry?

No chance.

#1278 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

My money went to Alien instead...and I'll let you know how that pans out.

Well just a brief update on this. I've only had the game since Thursday...but so far I absolutely LOVE it. Does that mean you should run out and buy one...no.

If you are worried about the longevity of Heighway then I would hold off.
If you you are worried about having to "tweak" or even service the game yourself, then I would hold off.

Me...I'm very happy with my purchase. The game works (with some minor fixes) as advertised. The sound package is second to none (none). Great coding (that is still being tweaked as we speak). The layout and flow and even the mode based rules remind me of STTNG (which is a very good thing) but of course the atmosphere is completely different and the game is deeper than STTNG and throws in some added strategy options (weapons). Theme integration is outstanding and a sub is a must for this game (there is a specific sub channel in the sound package just for people who do connect one).

-1
#1279 2 years ago

Aaaaannnnnddddd.....I was right, judging from the 169 (as of this post) replies on the GOTG release thread. The dark night is coming to an end. Here comes the same old dawn.

#1280 2 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Aaaaannnnnddddd.....I was right, judging from the 169 (as of this post) replies on the GOTG release thread. The dark night is coming to an end. Here comes the same old dawn.

I don't see many people turning somersaults ... and it's a fraction of the interest that the JJP leak / reveal generated.

#1281 2 years ago

Funny thing is, I love the movies and really want this to be a great game. Just so afraid it will be the let down that Ghostbusters and Star Wars were. Ok games, but don't live up to the themes. It's like seeing your favorite childhood theme being done by Michael Bay...oh wait...that happened. OPTIMUS!

#1282 2 years ago

Its a bright night for stern...
GOTG has already been proclaimed the greatest stern to date

#1283 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Its a bright night for stern.

Start a new thread!

#1284 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I don't see many people turning somersaults

As an operator, I am.

Quoted from rubberducks:

and it's a fraction of the interest that the JJP leak / reveal generated

And at a fraction of the cost as well.

#1285 2 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

And at a fraction of the cost as well.

Pretty high fraction, on everything except Pros.

Also, JJP Standard is the same price in EU as a Stern Premium, JJP LE is cheaper than a Stern LE.

#1286 2 years ago

If I'm any indicator at all then I doubt we will all be hopping back on the Stern love train, not with the "LE trap"

My first LE, a LOTRLE for $5200

Next Stern was an Ac/dc premium for I think around $6200 at the time? Reasonable

Then came TWDLE, had to have it because of the theme AND, you guys remember this one, Stern said they weren't going to make a premium version of TWD, collected the $$$ for the LE's and then changed their minds.

That LE was $7599 I think?

Now here come GBLE, had to have it, love the colors, theme, etc.....$7,999

Next up, I'm thinking it better be a F ing home run for me to buy another LE. And they slipped in BM66! I paid $9599 for that one.

At this point, things are out of control, kind of like "on tilt" when you are gambling. ASLE was a huge surprise, love it, $8299

And then again, here comes SWLE, wtf am I doing? $8499. Notice a trend here?

Backed off that one thinking alright, GOTG should be really good and then there is AFMLE and POTCE.

So now I'm really F ed. I'm in on the latter two, awaiting delivery.

Here we are today, GOTG looks like a home run from everything we hear. BUT, as much as I want it, its just not gonna happen unless I get it a year or two later like I did with Ac/dc when it was finished.

What will the LE price be? $8699. Premium? $7499? SHIT HAS GOTTEN WAY WHACK. OUT OF CONTROL!

Got to be picky, picky, so no Nibby, Nibby this time.

Patience baby, its a virtue they say

#1287 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Patience baby, its a virtue they say

After your track record you listed above I think Gary may properly believe you’ll buy whatever he tosses at you!!! Ha!

Gosh, I wish I wouldn’t have missed out on LOTRs LE for $5,200 NIB. I’m jealous.

#1288 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Pretty high fraction, on everything except Pros.
Also, JJP Standard is the same price in EU as a Stern Premium, JJP LE is cheaper than a Stern LE.

It's too bad JJP has nothing in the price range of a Stern Pro.

That's the fraction i am talking about.

#1289 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

After your track record you listed above I think Gary may properly believe you’ll buy whatever he tosses at you!!! Ha!
Gosh, I wish I wouldn’t have missed out on LOTRs LE for $5,200 NIB. I’m jealous.

I read his thread, with all the escalating prices and NIBS in his house, then claims he has patience lol. He is exactly the customer Stern likes! Not saying its bad, but his record speaks for itself!

#1290 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If I'm any indicator at all then I doubt we will all be hopping back on the Stern love train, not with the "LE trap"
My first LE, a LOTRLE for $5200
Next Stern was an Ac/dc premium for I think around $6200 at the time? Reasonable
Then came TWDLE, had to have it because of the theme AND, you guys remember this one, Stern said they weren't going to make a premium version of TWD, collected the $$$ for the LE's and then changed their minds.
That LE was $7599 I think?
Now here come GBLE, had to have it, love the colors, theme, etc.....$7,999
Next up, I'm thinking it better be a F ing home run for me to buy another LE. And they slipped in BM66! I paid $9599 for that one.
At this point, things are out of control, kind of like "on tilt" when you are gambling. ASLE was a huge surprise, love it, $8299
And then again, here comes SWLE, wtf am I doing? $8499. Notice a trend here?
Backed off that one thinking alright, GOTG should be really good and then there is AFMLE and POTCE.
So now I'm really F ed. I'm in on the latter two, awaiting delivery.
Here we are today, GOTG looks like a home run from everything we hear. BUT, as much as I want it, its just not gonna happen unless I get it a year or two later like I did with Ac/dc when it was finished.
What will the LE price be? $8699. Premium? $7499? SHIT HAS GOTTEN WAY WHACK. OUT OF CONTROL!
Got to be picky, picky, so no Nibby, Nibby this time.
Patience baby, its a virtue they say

I love it! I have the same disease that being said I'm a bit turned off by the Stern product of late although I do have Met, AC/DC, LOTR LE, and have gravitated towards the remakes (I have all of them), along with all the JJP games (with POTC on order)....to make you feel better I have a few duplicate games since I was too lazy to move to the beach house...As a matter of fact I'm still waiting on my second AFMRLE

#1291 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If I'm any indicator at all then I doubt we will all be hopping back on the Stern love train, not with the "LE trap"
My first LE, a LOTRLE for $5200
Next Stern was an Ac/dc premium for I think around $6200 at the time? Reasonable
Then came TWDLE, had to have it because of the theme AND, you guys remember this one, Stern said they weren't going to make a premium version of TWD, collected the $$$ for the LE's and then changed their minds.
That LE was $7599 I think?
Now here come GBLE, had to have it, love the colors, theme, etc.....$7,999
Next up, I'm thinking it better be a F ing home run for me to buy another LE. And they slipped in BM66! I paid $9599 for that one.
At this point, things are out of control, kind of like "on tilt" when you are gambling. ASLE was a huge surprise, love it, $8299
And then again, here comes SWLE, wtf am I doing? $8499. Notice a trend here?
Backed off that one thinking alright, GOTG should be really good and then there is AFMLE and POTCE.
So now I'm really F ed. I'm in on the latter two, awaiting delivery.
Here we are today, GOTG looks like a home run from everything we hear. BUT, as much as I want it, its just not gonna happen unless I get it a year or two later like I did with Ac/dc when it was finished.
What will the LE price be? $8699. Premium? $7499? SHIT HAS GOTTEN WAY WHACK. OUT OF CONTROL!
Got to be picky, picky, so no Nibby, Nibby this time.
Patience baby, its a virtue they say

Love your honesty Iceman! There are a few of us that have the LE disease. We are probably in for a few CGC remakes next. Quality is amazing and we are really looking forward to getting our AFMrLE. Still have the bug, just expecting a bit more bang for the dollar.

#1292 2 years ago

So sick and tired of you yanks crying about the price of jjp pb. I'm down for a ce potc in Australia it costs $19300.my car is only worth $10000. it all depends on how much you want something. I'm buying it for the topper and the art work and the rareity (only 25 in Australia and New Zealand). It is a high end luxury item, to complain about the price is like saying that a Rolex or that Rolls-Royce is to expensive. I want a pinball machine with all the bells and whistles and no short cuts. If this is the price point they get to so be it. I'm selling my rrwoz and gths2 to cover it. I just look at it as swapping 2for 1.if you want a bare bones pinball with the on off switch in the wrong place to save a couple of cents on wire or a couple of crap legs to hold up the playfield or awkward latches to undo the playfield instead of a handle etc then go for it. I'm just glad there's someone out there making no compromise pinballs .not trying to offend anyone just glad there are pinballs at all different levels.

#1293 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

So sick and tired of you yanks crying about the price of jjp pb. I'm down for a ce potc in Australia it costs $19300.my car is only worth $10000. it all depends on how much you want something. I'm buying it for the topper and the art work and the rareity (only 25 in Australia and New Zealand). It is a high end luxury item, to complain about the price is like saying that a Rolex or that Rolls-Royce is to expensive. I want a pinball machine with all the bells and whistles and no short cuts. If this is the price point they get to so be it. I'm selling my rrwoz and gths2 to cover it. I just look at it as swapping 2for 1.if you want a bare bones pinball with the on off switch in the wrong place to save a couple of cents on wire or a couple of crap legs to hold up the playfield or awkward latches to undo the playfield instead of a handle etc then go for it. I'm just glad there's someone out there making no compromise pinballs .not trying to offend anyone just glad there are pinballs at all different levels.

Pinball machines ARE NOT a “high end” luxury item that is in the same class as a Rolls Royce. They are definitely very expensive toys that a lot of people can’t shell out the money for but when they start approaching the prices that JJP is asking, that’s getting way too steep IMO. JJP I am sure has a business plan and they know what they are doing probably but if they aren’t careful they may just price themselves out of the market too. It doesn’t matter how much money a person has, every item has a price point that people are not willing to pay and I gotta believe that JJP is really close to that point. I like how you think it’s ok though to complain about Sterns lack of features but you give others crap because they complain about JJP’s prices. That’s kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

#1294 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I'm buying it for the topper and the art work and the rareity (only 25 in Australia and New Zealand).

It's great you have the commitment for something like this, but do you really think numbers like this are going to lead to pinball hobby growth in Oceania? At this price point, 99% are going into homes and the general public down here will in most cases never see or play one.

Quoted from screaminr:

It is a high end luxury item, to complain about the price is like saying that a Rolex or that Rolls-Royce is to expensive.

Sorry, but no it isn't a high end luxury item from any tangible aspect besides the price. It is a mass produced box of lights with some wiring and a proprietary OS/code to tie it all together. The fact that these companies have to resort to giving each unit some arbitrary number just reinforces how spurious the claims of a high end luxury item it really is.

In reality all the pinball companies are doing is estimating how many total units they can sell across the entire range for that title and then setting aside a percentage of that total with some minor product differentiation to create a false perception of value in the end consumer's mind.

The only thing keeping the NIB aspect of the hobby on life support is the fact that a majority of buyers know that upon resale you can expect to recoup close to 95% of your initial outlay. If it was closer to reality and people lost 30-40% after 12 months while still waiting for a completely functional coded machine this whole tiered model marketing scheme would have died out years ago.

All these companies are doing is targeting the existing niche home collector base and squeezing them as hard as they can for every dollar of their disposable income while the ride lasts. New entrants aren't buying at this price point as the barrier is too high for them. The most common response I hear from that group when looking to pick up their first NIB from any company is sticker shock so they instead look to the used market.

#1295 2 years ago

Woooo dey if you don't think a pinball machine is a luxury item your living in a world above me .and Rolex produce alot more numbers than these pinballs and to say they're going to price themselves out, all the ce in Australia are sold so there is a market at this price. Your missing my point I wish they were a $1000 but if to produce what they are takes x amount of dollars people are willing to pay that. P. S I really like stern games, but they build them to a minimum. Cheers

#1296 2 years ago

Hey pinsanity you say the only thing keeping pinball machine on ""Life Support " is if you sell your pinball you can get 95 percent of your purchase price what other product can you do that with .you prove my point people are willing to pay the price

#1297 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Woooo dey if you don't think a pinball machine is a luxury item your living in a world above me .and Rolex produce alot more numbers than these pinballs and to say they're going to price themselves out, all the ce in Australia are sold so there is a market at this price. Your missing my point I wish they were a $1000 but if to produce what they are takes x amount of dollars people are willing to pay that. P. S I really like stern games, but they build them to a minimum. Cheers

They might be a luxury item but they aren’t a high end luxury item. They are just an expensive toy and when toys get too expensive people stop buying them, even people that have a lot of extra money to burn. Once a person feels they are being taken advantage of or gouged, they usually say enough is enough, no more!

#1298 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Hey pinsanity you say the only thing keeping pinball machine on ""Life Support " is if you sell your pinball you can get 95 percent of your purchase price what other product can you do that with .you prove my point people are willing to pay the price

Not always. At least in the States, HUO Hobbits are selling at a much larger discount than that.

#1299 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Hey pinsanity you say the only thing keeping pinball machine on ""Life Support " is if you sell your pinball you can get 95 percent of your purchase price what other product can you do that with .you prove my point people are willing to pay the price

But it is only being resold for that price within the existing collector circle to those who missed out the arbitrarily "limited" product the first time around. The rapidly rising price points the two major companies are implementing aren't doing anything to grow and expand the hobby to new entrants.

That is my point.

Neither of the two major companies are providing a product at a price that allows new entrants to readily break into the market and ultimately expand it. They are only catering to the existing home collector market which in the long term is finite.

#1300 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

So sick and tired of you yanks crying about the price of jjp pb. I'm down for a ce potc in Australia it costs $19300.my car is only worth $10000. it all depends on how much you want something. I'm buying it for the topper and the art work and the rareity (only 25 in Australia and New Zealand). It is a high end luxury item, to complain about the price is like saying that a Rolex or that Rolls-Royce is to expensive. I want a pinball machine with all the bells and whistles and no short cuts. If this is the price point they get to so be it. I'm selling my rrwoz and gths2 to cover it. I just look at it as swapping 2for 1.if you want a bare bones pinball with the on off switch in the wrong place to save a couple of cents on wire or a couple of crap legs to hold up the playfield or awkward latches to undo the playfield instead of a handle etc then go for it. I'm just glad there's someone out there making no compromise pinballs .not trying to offend anyone just glad there are pinballs at all different levels.

I don't know why you seem to expect A$ prices to be the same as $ prices. It's like some Canadians complaining about the same with C$. That's not how currencies work.

Anyway, seems academic when you chose to buy a CLE. Which btw has 'only' an US$800 markup on US price, once you exclude the 10% GST. Considering the expense of property and doing business in AUS, and that it's a very long way away from NJ, that's not too bad.

Furthermore, the mark up on Sterns is a fraction of that in EU & UK, so you don't have much to complain about.

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