A dark night for Stern

(Topic ID: 200173)

A dark night for Stern


By jfh

1 year ago



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There are 1860 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 38.
#801 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

I guess we have run out of things to complain about and now dishwashers and underwear are more interesting.

How about this, has anyone ever washed their underwear in their dishwasher?

#802 1 year ago

Only if there's Carcass playin. If not I just hand wash in sink.

#803 1 year ago
Quoted from taz:

A Dark Night for Doing the Dishes

I was thinking STAR WASH.

#804 1 year ago

Back on topic...I am first and foremost a JJP fanboy but Stern making games essentially alone for over 10 years kept the new pinball industry alive and led to the reinvigoration we are now seeing. And they have made some fantastic games in the process. Every manufacturer has their amazing games and their turds but I am very enthusiastic about the future of pinball. There are some great games coming out from multiple manufacturers and the number of collectors is rapidly growing. I thought TNA looked lame but now I'm afraid to play it as I might end up loving it. I think it will succeed where Whoa Nellie failed. Alice Cooper seems promising too. The Big Lebowski and Alien appear like they could be great games and hopefully their manufacturers get things together. Aerosmith and Star Wars are really fun games. Dialed In! and JJPOTC are some of the best games ever made. It is a great time for pinball and while all of you are part of that, Stern deserves some thanks and respect for what they've done, despite questionable motivation and actions at times. I guess I just don't understand wanting to see any pinball company fail.

Now I'm going to go play my Dialed In!, my GB, my WOZ and my LOTR and dream about my Stern Star Wars and JJPOTC on the way! I hope everyone has a great weekend of pinball!

39
#805 1 year ago

I don't think many people want stern to fail. We just want them to stop the money grab and put a little more effort in design, manufacturing, quality, software, and value. They are still the largest pinball manufacturer but they are no where the best. Perhaps they don't want to be which will hurt them in the long run.

14
#806 1 year ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

Back on topic...I am first and foremost a JJP fanboy but Stern making games essentially alone for over 10 years kept the new pinball industry alive and led to the reinvigoration we are now seeing. And they have made some fantastic games in the process. Every manufacturer has their amazing games and their turds but I am very enthusiastic about the future of pinball. There are some great games coming out from multiple manufacturers and the number of collectors is rapidly growing. I thought TNA looked lame but now I'm afraid to play it as I might end up loving it. I think it will succeed where Whoa Nellie failed. Alice Cooper seems promising too. The Big Lebowski and Alien appear like they could be great games and hopefully their manufacturers get things together. Aerosmith and Star Wars are really fun games. Dialed In! and JJPOTC are some of the best games ever made. It is a great time for pinball and while all of you are part of that, Stern deserves some thanks and respect for what they've done, despite questionable motivation and actions at times. I guess I just don't understand wanting to see any pinball company fail.
Now I'm going to go play my Dialed In!, my GB, my WOZ and my LOTR and dream about my Stern Star Wars and JJPOTC on the way! I hope everyone has a great weekend of pinball!

We don't want Stern to fail. But obviously you have not had a NIB game that you spent hard earned money not work properly. There is no excuse for a nib game to have multiple defects from non working cpu boards to damaged play fields when you ask outrageous prices for your game.

#807 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

It is 100 percent a Spooky game.

It was developed by Scott, using the P-ROC system. What you're saying is MMr is a Stern game because they assembled it.

Anyway, this isn't something worth arguing about - both Scott and Spooky are great, and I'm super happy Charlie stepped up and brought TNA to the masses. Assigning labels isn't important.

#808 1 year ago
Quoted from TVP:

I don't think many people want stern to fail. We just want them to stop the money grab and put a little more effort in design, manufacturing, quality, software, and value. They are still the largest pinball manufacturer but they are no where the best. Perhaps they don't want to be which will hurt them in the long run.

This !

I was a long time Stern NIB buyer, but there is a pattern with them. If they think it will be an instant hit (GoT, SW, BM66) they will just not put in the effort to make it great. Be it the artwork or the game or the software, they just are not passionate about making the best they can. JJP proves this by making some great games that ooze with passion.

Also the fact that I am still waiting on a playfield swap for a ghosted GB does not help. It has been over a year now. I feel treated bad by them and therefore I will not buy again, not even GOTG if they make that even though it is a great theme for me. I gave them my trust too many times already. They do not stand by their product.

#809 1 year ago

I have yet to play a stern game from any era that wasn’t fun, even those not highly rated like wwf, mustang, csi, Wof, etc. the issues I have now and why I am very hesitant to buy a new stern game are the quality of the games and the spike system, which I cannot repair (easily). All games break and I need to be able to repair them myself and quickly. The lack of service rails in pro games, for example, which may seem minor, are actually a big deal to me.

I hope stern is reading this as some suggest they do.

27
#810 1 year ago

I think it may be time to close this thread. robin or another mod, please do so if you think it's appropriate. I'm not opposed to keeping it open, but with talk of burritos, dishwashers and underwear, maybe it's time. By now someone on Gary's managment team must realize over 300 people on Pinside share concerns that Stern doesn't hear or understand their concerns on issues that are important to many operators and collectors that want see Stern do well and see pinball thrive.

To Stern management:

Pinside can be a tough place. Threads can quickly devolve into Stern bashing or JJP bashing with unrealistic expectations or demands. Getting 300 Pinsiders to agree on what day of the week it is can sometimes be a challenge. But if 300+ people took the time to read and thumbs up the original post, there are probably at least 10 times that many thinking the same way. There are some great suggestions in this thread. Please take some of them to heart.

The bottom line is all about communication. It is unfortunate (but sadly not surprising) you did not take advantage of this thread to set the record straight if we have it all wrong. That probably means you don't see the need to change which probably means we won't see any noticeable improvement. Maybe that only disappoints me and 300 others and has no significant impact on the bottom line. Maybe not.

I said in the opening post that from now on I'm going to be buying on what I get today, not promises of what I'll get tomorrow (and that's assuming you deliver on your Batman 66 promise).

I think I'm in a demographic you covet. I'm an LE buyer, not usually interested in a Pro. A year ago I had no problem buying your most expensive game ever. I would've bought LEs of two of your rumored future titles (GOTG and Elvira) practically sight unseen at launch. But now before I buy another Stern game you have to show me I'm not foolish to do so.

Show me I don't have to be unduly concerned about playfields cratering, cabinets splitting, node boards becoming obsolete or irreplaceable, poor build quality and shallow unfinished code and poor communication. If you can't or don't want to, my money either stays in my pocket or goes to a competitor and you have one less person in the Stern Army. If that's just me, no big deal. But what happens if that isn't just me, but hundreds or thousands of others?

If my concerns are unfounded, let me know. If you don't want to post publicly, PM me.

12
#811 1 year ago

Just say 'NO' 'til 1.0. Make the pledge.

#812 1 year ago

Stern is only worried about future customers, not current/repeat customers. It's obvious. Money talks and when sales start to dip, that's when Stern will listen. Until then, good luck.

-10
#813 1 year ago

Stern does not even read these posts. And even more if they did they could care less about all the money we have spent on their shit product.

15
#814 1 year ago
Quoted from jfh:

I think it may be time to close this thread. robin or another mod, please do so if you think it's appropriate. I'm not opposed to keeping it open, but with talk of burritos, dishwashers and underwear, maybe it's time. By now someone on Gary's managment team must realize over 300 people on Pinside share concerns that Stern doesn't hear or understand their concerns on issues that are important to many operators and collectors that want see Stern do well and see pinball thrive.
To Stern management:
Pinside can be a tough place. Threads can quickly devolve into Stern bashing or JJP bashing with unrealistic expectations or demands. Getting 300 Pinsiders to agree on what day of the week it is can sometimes be a challenge. But if 300+ people took the time to read and thumbs up the original post, there are probably at least 10 times that many thinking the same way. There are some great suggestions in this thread. Please take some of them to heart.
The bottom line is all about communication. It is unfortunate (but sadly not surprising) you did not take advantage of this thread to set the record straight if we have it all wrong. That probably means you don't see the need to change which probably means we won't see any noticeable improvement. Maybe that only disappoints me and 300 others and has no significant impact on the bottom line. Maybe not.
I said in the opening post that from now on I'm going to be buying on what I get today, not promises of what I'll get tomorrow (and that's assuming you deliver on your Batman 66 promise).
I think I'm in a demographic you covet. I'm an LE buyer, not usually interested in a Pro. A year ago I had no problem buying your most expensive game ever. I would've bought LEs of two of your rumored future titles (GOTG and Elvira) practically sight unseen at launch. But now before I buy another Stern game you have to show me I'm not foolish to do so.
Show me I don't have to be unduly concerned about playfields cratering, cabinets splitting, node boards becoming obsolete or irreplaceable, poor build quality and shallow unfinished code and poor communication. If you can't or don't want to, my money either stays in my pocket or goes to a competitor and you have one less person in the Stern Army. If that's just me, no big deal. But what happens if that isn't just me, but hundreds or thousands of others?
If my concerns are unfounded, let me know. If you don't want to post publicly, PM me.

With their cost-cutting, poor QA, and abysmal communication Stern has achieved the impossible - brought 300 pinsiders together in harmony!

#815 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Stern does not even read these posts. And even more if they did they could care less about all the money we have spent on their shit product.

What are you talking about? You think your MET, ST and Acdc are shit? Really?

#816 1 year ago
Quoted from jfh:

I think I'm in a demographic you covet. I'm an LE buyer, not usually interested in a Pro. A year ago I had no problem buying your most expensive game ever. I would've bought LEs of two of your rumored future titles (GOTG and Elvira) practically sight unseen at launch. But now before I buy another Stern game you have to show me I'm not foolish to do so.

I second this. The good news is feedback shows there is interest in Stern's products. I own SM, IMVE, Shrek, POTC, XMLE, Tron, TSPP. I'm obviously interested in their products.

Hopefully they use this as an opportunity to see things from a different perspective.

#817 1 year ago
Quoted from jfh:

I think it may be time to close this thread..

Who cares? I am so sick of this idea that whenever a conversation veers off course, OPs talk about closing them. Hey, it's not your thread, even if you started it.

#818 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Just say 'NO' 'til 1.0. Make the pledge.

Just say no till 1.0! Just say no till 1.0! I like that. Wise words from the gentleman above folks. You keep control of the transaction and your money has a power, which isn’t forfeited to Stern, or anyone else for that matter. Or, you can buy and leave it to faith.

28
#819 1 year ago

So imagine if Stern made dishwashers. They'd be delivered with incomplete firmware, so the rinse cycle might work, but the wash and dry cycle wouldn't. Every few cycles the machine would reset mid cycle. If you were unlucky, the casing might be split on delivery and water would leak all over your kitchen. The stainless steel fascia might start separating after a few weeks, but you'd be told it's "normal". After a 12 month wait, you'd finally get a firmware update and the board that controls the water jets would get fried making the machine unusable. But instead of having a tech sent out to fix it, you'd have to ring customer support and they'd tell you how to open up the machine and fix it yourself. When a new model was released, instead of adding new features to make the customer experience better like most companies do, the Stern dishwasher would remove features - the start button moved to the back, the legs would be cheapened, the dish tray wheels removed.

This post was meant as a joke, but it shows how ridiculous it is that we still buy these games. Hard to imagine any other company delivering a product like this, except maybe extreme boutique products. Yet here we are paying $5000-$10000 for the privilege. And queuing up to do it. Sending in video applications I'm some cases.

#820 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Stern does not even read these posts. And even more if they did they could care less about all the money we have spent on their shit product.

Although I agree that their quality has suffered lately...that being said not all their pins are in the category of a "shit" product....MET, ACDC, and LOTR all come to mind....all three incredible games....

#821 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Although I agree that their quality has suffered lately...that being said not all their pins are in the category of a "shit" product....MET, ACDC, and LOTR all come to mind....all three incredible games....

Took quite awhile before AcDc and MET code was at the point that made those awesome games they are though. Lots of early purchasers sold them before the code was finished.

#822 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

I owned a Bosch for a short while as well. They use a "no heat" drying system that doesn't use a heating element that saves a lot on energy costs. I forget what they call their drying "system", but that's why they don't dry very well.
Sorry for the derail, please continue bashing whatever..

I don't have a fancy ass dishwasher, So when the cycle is done I simply open the door, pull the top rack out and over turn over any beer mugs that might have a little water in them. Then unload an hour later. I had no clue people actually expect a small puddle of water to be gone at the end of a cycle, but I also don't feel like spending $3000 on a friggin dishwasher.

#823 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

How about this, has anyone ever washed their underwear in their dishwasher?

I do wash four wheeler and car parts in mine lol.

#824 1 year ago

Wiring harnesses in mine.
A fancy Bosch model is $800 or so. Cheaper Bosch ones are $450-600.
Your cheapo Whirlpool’s and similar plastic tub noisemakers are $200.00-$300.0
They all wash dishes just fine. Kinda like a cargument.

#825 1 year ago

I'm really beginning to feel left out because I don't have dishes.

I do have a plastic spork, if anybody would like to discuss that.

#826 1 year ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

I'm really beginning to feel left out because I don't have dishes.
I do have a plastic spork, if anybody would like to discuss that.

How many tines?

#827 1 year ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

What are you talking about? You think your MET, ST and Acdc are shit? Really?

Oh really? Let me just start with Metallica Premium NIB! CPU board not working, separate fuse board NOT working, defective snake mylar, mystery scoop not working, Snake jaw installed wrong, coffin box not working. I am new to pinball and every game so far (4) NIB that I have bought have had some issues. Met Pre being the worst! No, I don't think the game play is shit at all. I think they are great fast playing games, but in my opinion and experience the build quality is far from good. My first game was a Kiss that I got in the early 1990's. This game was USED when I acquired it. I never experienced even remotely close to the many issues with that game as I have with NIB Stern games.

#828 1 year ago
Quoted from TVP:

They are still the largest pinball manufacturer but they are no where the best. Perhaps they don't want to be which will hurt them in the long run.

Stern is the Walmart of pinball now. Twelve years ago, I would never make such a statement.

#829 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

So imagine if Stern made dishwashers. They'd be delivered with incomplete firmware, so the rinse cycle might work, but the wash and dry cycle wouldn't. Every few cycles the machine would reset mid cycle. If you were unlucky, the casing might be split on delivery and water would leak all over your kitchen. The stainless steel fascia might start separating after a few weeks, but you'd be told it's "normal". After a 12 month wait, you'd finally get a firmware update and the board that controls the water jets would get fried making the machine unusable. But instead of having a tech sent out to fix it, you'd have to ring customer support and they'd tell you how to open up the machine and fix it yourself. When a new model was released, instead of adding new features to make the customer experience better like most companies do, the Stern dishwasher would remove features - the start button moved to the back, the legs would be cheapened, the dish tray wheels removed.
This post was meant as a joke, but it shows how ridiculous it is that we still buy these games. Hard to imagine any other company delivering a product like this, except maybe extreme boutique products. Yet here we are paying $5000-$10000 for the privilege. And queuing up to do it. Sending in video applications I'm some cases.

Not me, I am in line for the good stuff.....JJP PoTC

#830 1 year ago

What is GOTG

#831 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Oh really? Let me just start with Metallica Premium NIB! CPU board not working, separate fuse board NOT working, defective snake mylar, mystery scoop not working, Snake jaw installed wrong, coffin box not working. I am new to pinball and every game so far (4) NIB that I have bought have had some issues. Met Pre being the worst! No, I don't think the game play is shit at all. I think they are great fast playing games, but in my opinion and experience the build quality is far from good. My first game was a Kiss that I got in the early 1990's. This game was USED when I acquired it. I never experienced even remotely close to the many issues with that game as I have with NIB Stern games.

I've never had issues with NIB Stern's, but I am losing a lot of confidence in their quality and value. I used to be a Stern LE buyer, but my last LE was GB LE and I backed out of a SW LE. The value and quality just isn't there anymore. Look at Star Trek LE, WOW. since then :-/ However, JJP PoTC LE, WOW! Thats where my 2018 pinball dollars are going. Might pickup a Stern SW on the secondary market if code is ever completed and the machine isn't falling apart.

#832 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Reminds me of an old joke. What does o-din do when his dishwasher quits working? Feeds him a burrito!
Another vote for Bosch here, BTW. It may not be as affordable as o-din, but it's quieter after a few drinks.

Yes, Bosch is so quiet that is shines a little light on the floor to let you know its running.

#833 1 year ago
Quoted from jwilson:

It was developed by Scott, using the P-ROC system. What you're saying is MMr is a Stern game because they assembled it.
Anyway, this isn't something worth arguing about - both Scott and Spooky are great, and I'm super happy Charlie stepped up and brought TNA to the masses. Assigning labels isn't important.

It's deeper than that, but I won't bore you with the details.

#834 1 year ago

Guardians of The Galaxy

#835 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

How many tines?

Thanks for asking!

Mine is rather fancy as it has a total of 5 tines, which provides far superior penetration and stability than a 4 tine spork. This one has three standard tines at the center, and two outwardly curved tines on either side.

Quite a masterful piece of workmanship if you ask me.

EDIT: Never mind, I broke it.

#836 1 year ago
Quoted from NPO:

Stern is the Walmart of pinball now. Twelve years ago, I would never make such a statement.

That's just ridiculous and what happened 12 years ago?

#837 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Oh really? Let me just start with Metallica Premium NIB! CPU board not working, separate fuse board NOT working, defective snake mylar, mystery scoop not working, Snake jaw installed wrong, coffin box not working. I am new to pinball and every game so far (4) NIB that I have bought have had some issues. Met Pre being the worst! No, I don't think the game play is shit at all. I think they are great fast playing games, but in my opinion and experience the build quality is far from good. My first game was a Kiss that I got in the early 1990's. This game was USED when I acquired it. I never experienced even remotely close to the many issues with that game as I have with NIB Stern games.

you should stick to JJP or CGC pins...their games are built like tanks....although ALL pins have issues eventually....a lot of moving parts

#838 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

you should stick to JJP or CGC pins...their games are built like tanks....although ALL pins have issues eventually....a lot of moving parts

Amen.

#840 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Oh really? Let me just start with Metallica Premium NIB! CPU board not working, separate fuse board NOT working, defective snake mylar, mystery scoop not working, Snake jaw installed wrong, coffin box not working. I am new to pinball and every game so far (4) NIB that I have bought have had some issues. Met Pre being the worst! No, I don't think the game play is shit at all. I think they are great fast playing games, but in my opinion and experience the build quality is far from good. My first game was a Kiss that I got in the early 1990's. This game was USED when I acquired it. I never experienced even remotely close to the many issues with that game as I have with NIB Stern games.

Man your experience is not typical. Sorry the odds worked against you on those somehow and glad you got those good players worked out.

-1
#841 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Oh really? Let me just start with Metallica Premium NIB! CPU board not working, separate fuse board NOT working, defective snake mylar, mystery scoop not working, Snake jaw installed wrong, coffin box not working. I am new to pinball and every game so far (4) NIB that I have bought have had some issues. Met Pre being the worst! No, I don't think the game play is shit at all. I think they are great fast playing games, but in my opinion and experience the build quality is far from good. My first game was a Kiss that I got in the early 1990's. This game was USED when I acquired it. I never experienced even remotely close to the many issues with that game as I have with NIB Stern games.

Seems like you would have learned after like the 2nd game you bought. You should switch companies that you are buying your pins from. I heard that Sterns competitors never have any problems at all.

#842 1 year ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

Man your experience is not typical. Sorry the odds worked against you on those somehow and glad you got those good players worked out.

His experience is typical for many, I personally know others that have had issues with just as many games in a row, they don’t go come on pinside to tell, but it’s happening.

#843 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

His experience is typical for many, I personally know others that have had issues with just as many games in a row, they don’t go come on pinside to tell, but it’s happening.

And I know alot of people who never have had any NIB problems.

#844 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

And I know alot of people who never have had any NIB problems.

I think the poll in the GOTG thread says a lot, I know the numbers are higher now, but 119 are not buying any more stern games? That really lets you know that Stern has some unhappy customers.

F038BF06-AFE3-45FE-B30B-93893FE20301 (resized).png

#845 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

I think the poll in the GOTG thread says a lot, I know the numbers are higher now, but 119 are not buying any more stern games? That really lets you know that Stern has some unhappy customers.

Not neccessarily, anybody can vote on a poll. They have more unhappy customers than other pinball manufacturers but they also sell far more games than anyone else also so it just stands to reason that's going to happen. Sterns quality isn't where I would like it to be and I won't deny that for a minute, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people let on either. Hopefully they are learning from their mistakes though and striving to be better.

#846 1 year ago

Games not working out of the box, splitting cabinets, ghosting on brand new games what do people "let on" about that? Perception is key and if they are not happy than who are you to down play it? Their QC sucks at best and this is clearly evident. You are obviously a Stern fan boy 119 people speaks volume and they do sell allot more games because they rush them out with unfinished code and lack of QC.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Not neccessarily, anybody can vote on a poll. They have more unhappy customers than other pinball manufacturers but they also sell far more games than anyone else also so it just stands to reason that's going to happen. Sterns quality isn't where I would like it to be and I won't deny that for a minute, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people let on either. Hopefully they are learning from their mistakes though and striving to be better.

#847 1 year ago
Quoted from jkashani:

Games not working out of the box, splitting cabinets, ghosting on brand new games what do people "let on" about that? Perception is key and if they are not happy than who are you to down play it? Their QC sucks at best and this is clearly evident. You are obviously a Stern fan boy 119 people speaks volume and they do sell allot more games because they rush them out with unfinished code and lack of QC.

It seems like B/W folks would like Sterns beacuse they enjoy constantly fixing and tweaking their pinball games.

We have a friend in our pinball group with a dozen 90's pins who constantly asks all owners of newer Sterns how much ghosting we have on our PF's and who many other problems we have and thinks Stern sells a crappy product. He was totally fine with buying a 90's pin recently from from a collector who had a DMD problem "that just started the day before you showed up?!" and he spent hours and hours and then more money fixing the issues. He never bad mounted or complained about the seller or anything. He kind of liked the challenge. He would not want to deal with Stern and some Stern buyers would not want to deal with my buddy's issues.

I think we are all "fanboys" of pinball which is crazy within itself.

#848 1 year ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

It seems like B/W folks would like Sterns beacuse they enjoy constantly fixing and tweaking their pinball games.

At least B/W games are fixable! Stern won't give schematics for their lousy Spike system. Even if they did, the soldering skills and equipment many of us have acquired over the years is useless since they're now using tiny, surface-mount components. Not only that, but the Spike node boards are not all interchangeable with other Spike games either. Add to that splitting cabs, crap clearcoat, and incomplete code... I'll stick with 25+year old B/W games--or even better (to me) classic Stern games. Seawitch, 9 Ball, Meteor, Stargazer, etc... Those are the only Stern's i expect to be able to play 20 years from now!

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Hopefully they are learning from their mistakes though and striving to be better.

I'd like to see them improve the quality of their games, but until there's any solid evidence that they have, i wouldn't consider a newer Stern and easily understand why others won't either. Why risk it? Even if you get one that has good cosmetics (and stays that way after several hundred games), you're still going to be waiting for the code to be completed. BM66 anyone? I still can't believe they pulled the whole SLE stunt and still haven't completed code on it (or any variation of BM66 for that matter). That alone is enough to make me question their dedication to home buyers. Add in the aforementioned issues, and it's a no-brainer. It's crazy, their games have gotten less reliable, build quality is diminished, and the prices have gone up! Quite a stunt!

#849 1 year ago

In pinball history there must have been some periods of folks saying "the way these games are made they will never last!" issues. I don't know if examples because I haven't been around long enough, but the older games live on. Maybe this was never a question or issue before.

#850 1 year ago
Quoted from jkashani:

Games not working out of the box, splitting cabinets, ghosting on brand new games what do people "let on" about that? Perception is key and if they are not happy than who are you to down play it? Their QC sucks at best and this is clearly evident. You are obviously a Stern fan boy 119 people speaks volume and they do sell allot more games because they rush them out with unfinished code and lack of QC.

I am a fan of Stern games and i won't deny it. I think they make alot of great games, TWD, GB, AS, GOT, MET, AC/DC, SW, ST, TRON, KISS, etc etc etc. What's not to like about those games? For some odd reason, people fail to hear me when I acknowledge that they have some Quality problems that they need to address and I just don't understand why people are like that. The only thing i am saying is, things are not as bad as what a select few here let on. I have 4 very solid Stern games that are great and I have many friends with Stern games that are great and reliable as well. I have slammed Stern plenty on here believe me, but I look at the whole picture also unlike you do.

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Operation Pinball
7,499
Machine - For Sale
West Chicago, IL
$ 25.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
$ 25.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
99,999
Machine - For Sale
Denver, CO
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Pittsburgh, PA
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 60.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Docquest Pinball Mods
$ 26.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 8,500.00
From: $ 175.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
$ 10.50
Playfield - Decals
The MOD Couple
$ 29.25
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
The MOD Couple
$ 26.50
$ 26.50
$ 249.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Great American Pinball
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Bright Lights Pinball
$ 16.50
Lighting - Led
Lermods
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
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