(Topic ID: 200173)

A dark night for Stern


By jfh

2 years ago



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There are 1860 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 38.
#551 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I had 2 great locations a bit over an hour away... both went out of business.
Say all four locations get each and every Stern (unlikely, but I’ll rely on you to tell me if all 4 of them have Star Wars). If they all do, that is still only 4 games in a spot with a very rare glut of pinball.
I’m leaning more and more towards thinking 95% are I bought by regular people.

But its not about how many games the barcade/location buys. Its about how many newbs are exposed to pinball at that location/barcade.

The location/barcade is like Stern's showroom. The barcade exposes 10 new collectors per year, who then go on to buy 5-10 games themselves.

Thats why Stern are so focused on location pinball. Without it the market stagnates.

#552 2 years ago

Why go back to Sam and deal with a year waiting for a color dmd? Pick your poison. I’d like to think at some point the growing pains will be over.

#553 2 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Why go back to Sam and deal with a year waiting for a color dmd? Pick your poison. I’d like to think at some point the growing pains will be over.

How many games represents growing pains?

#554 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I had 2 great locations a bit over an hour away... both went out of business.
Say all four locations get each and every Stern (unlikely, but I’ll rely on you to tell me if all 4 of them have Star Wars). If they all do, that is still only 4 games in a spot with a very rare glut of pinball.
I’m leaning more and more towards thinking 95% are I bought by regular people.

I can't remember what show it was at but Gary Stern said 70% of games sold go to home buyers in the USA. This was Last year.

#555 2 years ago

What's the story on the Stern coffee table book? Was there any resolution during Expo? Did Stern give a statement? I still have a flyer from the guy who was promoting it last year at Expo, but I told him I'd take one "cash and carry" only. At first, I thought the guy who was pitching the book was Waison the programmer from Stern. Guess not.

#557 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Yeah because TWD, GB, GOT, TRON, AC/DC, AS, Kiss, MET and many other games are just terrible right? You're just another Stern hater.

They are in terms of PF design. Have a look at JJPOTC and you can see why. Not a hater, just someone with their eyes open knowing that the industry can do better, yet some manufacturers decide not to.

NB: GB aint a bad game actually and the code on Acdc and MET is quite good to, but dont tell me a better job could not have been done... Hmmm how about we compare both POTC's... 90s games being remade.... yeah the industry must be going well if they are bringing back games from 20 years ago! This was always going to happen that a manufacturer would come out and decide to make a game with innovations available. Sure people might be happy with their Stern collections, but dont get all cut up and defensive when someone just does things better.

#558 2 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

Hmmm how about we compare both POTC's...

Yeah and the 3500 difference just for the standard, don't be foolish.

#559 2 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Why go back to Sam and deal with a year waiting for a color dmd? Pick your poison. I’d like to think at some point the growing pains will be over.

No one said to go back to SAM....just that the games were better during that era.

-2
#560 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah and the 3500 difference just for the standard, don't be foolish.

lol but its got 2000% more. Bi winning!

#561 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah and the 3500 difference just for the standard, don't be foolish.

Ummmm the price between Stern POTC and JJPs lowest version is a price difference of $4700 actually. You could have bought 2 POTC's and money left over for what one JJP one costs.

#562 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Ummmm the price between Stern POTC and JJPs lowest version is a price difference of $4700 actually. You could have bought 2 POTC's and money left over for what one JJP one costs.

So the question is would you rather own two Stern POTC or one JJPPOTC?

-5
#563 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Ummmm the price between Stern POTC and JJPs lowest version is a price difference of $4700 actually. You could have bought 2 POTC's and money left over for what one JJP one costs.

so you can spend $4700 for a mediocre game at best or $9500 for a machine that will provide years and years of entertainment for all....pretty easy decision in my book....

#564 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

So the question is would you rather own two Stern POTC or one JJPPOTC?

JJPOTC, and trade it for POTC and boatload of cash

Quoted from PtownPin:

so you can spend $4700 for a mediocre game at best or $9500 for a machine that will provide years and years of entertainment for all....pretty easy decision in my book....

I don't think it's a proven fact this is one of the best games ever and everyone will love it for years. We're half a year from even starting the honeymoon period.
And personally I'd only spend 8500 on one if I did.

#565 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

JJPOTC, and trade it for POTC and boatload of cash

I don't think it's a proven fact this is one of the best games ever and everyone will love it for years. We're half a year from even starting the honeymoon period.
And personally I'd only spend 8500 on one if I did.

Nobody is saying its the best game ever, but clearly it will be a very entertaining pin....$8500 or $9500...doesnt really matter in my mind if I get a quality product....

#566 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Nobody is saying its the best game ever, but clearly it will be a very entertaining pin....$8500 or $9500...doesnt really matter in my mind if I get a quality product....

I haven't had a chance to play it so it isn't clear to me I would like it. Just because there a bunch of stuff going on doesn't mean it'll be fun.
Never know until you get your hands on it.

#567 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I haven't had a chance to play it so it isn't clear to me I would like it. Just because there a bunch of stuff going on doesn't mean it'll be fun.
Never know until you get your hands on it.

very true, but I'm guessing you'll probably like it Their 3 for 3 in my eyes....

#568 2 years ago

Can't wait to give it a try!

#569 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Its about how many newbs are exposed to pinball at that location/barcade.

The barcade exposes 10 new collectors per year, who then go on to buy 5-10 games themselves.

Without it the market stagnates.

One of your best posts I have read so far cooked71.

More of this kind of foresight and perspective from other Aussie pinheads acknowledging that new entrants are the primary way our local pinball scene will flourish and lead to positive outcomes in terms of hobby growth instead of just basic survival.

#570 2 years ago

The new potc looks great with lots of cool features..... but isnt anyone worried about the over use of the upper playfield? Every right ramp shot goes up there and theres a vuk or something that shoots it up there from behind also. Most people bitched about g.o.t and its upper playfield use and this game dont even have a diverter(like got) and has a back way in? Crazy how this isnt mentioned but got gets crucified for this?

#571 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

The new potc looks great with lots of cool features..... but isnt anyone worried about the over use of the upper playfield? Every right ramp shot goes up there and theres a vuk or something that shoots it up there from behind also. Most people bitched about g.o.t and its upper playfield use and this game dont even have a diverter(like got) and has a back way in? Crazy how this isnt mentioned but got gets crucified for this?

No worries for me. Much like AS entrance to the upper PF but better, elevator in back takes the ball up that way as well.

#572 2 years ago

Maybe this isn't seen as a "flow game" *little bit of puke came up typing that * so that doesn't matter as much?
Ive wondered if it's fsnishioned more like an older cool upper PF but no idea.
I also don't see a ton of people complaining about having to press an action button like SW but I haven't read all the posts here

#573 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No worries for me. Much like AS entrance to the upper PF but better, elevator in back takes the ball up that way as well.

Theres a diverter on as so it skips the playfield alot.... not on potc tho as it goes up there every time from multiple areas.

#574 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

I can't remember what show it was at but Gary Stern said 70% of games sold go to home buyers in the USA. This was Last year.

If that's true, how are barcades the future? (Unless barcades=showroom)

#575 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Maybe this isn't seen as a "flow game" *little bit of puke came up typing that * so that doesn't matter as much?
Ive wondered if it's fsnishioned more like an older cool upper PF but no idea.
I also don't see a ton of people complaining about having to press an action button like SW but I haven't read all the posts here

I think once the hype /excitement wear off people will start to realize some things .....

#576 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I think once the hype /excitement wear off people will start to realize some things .....

No way. This is the pinnacle of pinballery and thinking diff'rent shows your true self *insert body snatches pic*

#577 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

The new potc looks great with lots of cool features..... but isnt anyone worried about the over use of the upper playfield? Every right ramp shot goes up there and theres a vuk or something that shoots it up there from behind also. Most people bitched about g.o.t and its upper playfield use and this game dont even have a diverter(like got) and has a back way in? Crazy how this isnt mentioned but got gets crucified for this?

Yes - I was thinking it would be better with a MM style diverter - but havent played it obviously so cant really say for sure.

#578 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

No way. This is the pinnacle of pinballery and thinking diff'rent shows your true self *insert body snatches pic*

It's crazy why some things get passes and others dont..... people on here dont know what they want and just follow the leader lol.

#579 2 years ago
Quoted from libtech:

Yes - I was thinking it would be better with a MM style diverter - but havent played it obviously so cant really say for sure.

Yep totally agree ....that wld be perfect. Have to do a series of events to open up the upper playfield.

#580 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

That is foolish...mediocre is too kind for that list.
GOT = Sub-Mediocre
SW = A mess
AS = Mediocre
BM = BM
GB = Box of vomit
The SPIKE era has been massively disappointing. Most of the SAM games were really great...and if not great, really damn good. Whitestar had some gems, too.

BM = Bowel Movement?

Sounds about right.

#581 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

If that's true, how are barcades the future? (Unless barcades=showroom)

I don't think it's true that barcodes are the future....I think it is an important portion but in reality I believe they should focus on the entire market. Collectors, operators, and occasional rec room buyer. I believe that they do this.

I could search for the you tube video that Gary said this. I remember seeing it and posting about it here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-stern-ghostbusters-speculation-thread/page/187#post-3081322

#582 2 years ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

286-0?!?!?!
Somebody gotta bat for the underdog bruh sorry.
JJPOTC is gonna blow everyone's minds though and that's a fact Jack. Brutally tough yet ya keep coming back for more. I was impressed all to hell... like no other machine in recent memory. But, I'm easily amused...

ill hold your hand down there...

#583 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

I can't remember what show it was at but Gary Stern said 70% of games sold go to home buyers in the USA. This was Last year.

Yeah I remember that quote also. I was surprised he finally said it but it's obvious as pins are gone from virtually every spot near me.

It may have been said at the BM66 "party".

#584 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

BM = Bowel Movement?
Sounds about right.

Pimp gets me.

#585 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

We have not taken a quarter out of a game yet in over 4 years.

Woah! Be careful when you finally decide to open those coin doors!

#586 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

so you can spend $4700 for a mediocre game at best or $9500 for a machine that will provide years and years of entertainment for all....pretty easy decision in my book....

POTC is far better than a mediocre game, and has one of the best toys in pinball...even all these years later. You're already prejudging the new game based on the reveal. It's gorgeous, but I was so annoyed by the callouts ("Aarrrrrgh! Ye be warned!") that I had to mute the thing to continue watching with the sound off. Looks to me like it might have an equal chance of providing years and years of annoyance.

I'm going to jump off the hype train and wait and see how things pan out.

#587 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

So the question is would you rather own two Stern POTC or one JJPPOTC?

If ur slow upstairs then yeah that would be the question but I would take POTC and lets SM or Tron etc. over one JJP POTC, the game looks nice but its not the second coming for me, it seems for a lot of you fanboys the only thing missing is set of Jacks balls dangling under the cab that u can lick nightly, now that's "build quality".

#588 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

If ur slow upstairs then yeah that would be the question but I would take POTC and lets SM or Tron etc. over one JJP POTC, the game looks nice but its not the second coming for me, it seems for a lot of you fanboys the only thing missing is set of Jacks balls dangling under the cab that u can lick nightly, now that's "build quality".

#589 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

but I would take POTC and lets SM or Tron etc

where can I find both a Stern POTC and SM/TRON NIB for 8500?

asking for a friend...

If we are being real in comparisons then lets use real world numbers.
A NIB stern pro is currently $5400 which makes that JJP POTC 1.57 times the cost

If we want to compare Sterm Premium NIB to JJP POTC then the cost is even closer. What do NIB premium SW go for right now?

11
#590 2 years ago

Only because I know the good people at Stern read these threads:
I am new in the hobby, and my first and last NIB was Met pro at about $4,500. Prices above this mark are too high for me and I'll be exploring used titles for the foreseeable future. Consider this a +1 in how many people stopped buying after the recent price hikes.

#591 2 years ago
Quoted from damageinc55:

Only because I know the good people at Stern read these threads:
I am new in the hobby, and my first and last NIB was Met pro at about $4,500. Prices above this mark are too high for me and I'll be exploring used titles for the foreseeable future. Consider this a +1 in how many people stopped buying after the recent price hikes.

Well at least you do not have to get a color DMD. JJP did not put any pressure on Stern pricing with a $500 increase of their own for Pirates. Wish they stayed the same.

#592 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I haven't had a chance to play it so it isn't clear to me I would like it. Just because there a bunch of stuff going on doesn't mean it'll be fun.
Never know until you get your hands on it.

The Hobbit is a prime example.

#593 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

The new potc looks great with lots of cool features..... but isnt anyone worried about the over use of the upper playfield? Every right ramp shot goes up there and theres a vuk or something that shoots it up there from behind also. Most people bitched about g.o.t and its upper playfield use and this game dont even have a diverter(like got) and has a back way in? Crazy how this isnt mentioned but got gets crucified for this?

I asked about this, I mean crazy how the upper PF is instantly accessible, unlike Woz or Tspp.

I guess (?) just don’t shoot the ramp if you don’t need to access the upper PF.

Still seems like it can be a neat little PF but I didn’t think I’d want to be up there 20 times a game. AcDc premium lower PF is fun but only in small doses.

I don’t know anything since haven’t watched any videos and don’t know if the rules will make it fun to play all the time or only during certain modes.

#594 2 years ago

I suspect that the upper PF won't always be "on" and it will sometimes be disabled to have the ball exit down either the south or the east exit from the upper PF. I suspect that it was on 100% of modes at Expo so that everyone would have a chance to experience it.

#595 2 years ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

I suspect that the upper PF won't always be "on" and it will sometimes be disabled to have the ball exit down either the south or the east exit from the upper PF. I suspect that it was on 100% of modes at Expo so that everyone would have a chance to experience it.

Keith has been clear in the past that he would never turn off upper playfields, for various reasons.

Seems like its best to just accept that this is intentional design and the way they want the game to be played.

-1
#596 2 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

They are in terms of PF design. Have a look at JJPOTC and you can see why. Not a hater, just someone with their eyes open knowing that the industry can do better, yet some manufacturers decide not to.
NB: GB aint a bad game actually and the code on Acdc and MET is quite good to, but dont tell me a better job could not have been done... Hmmm how about we compare both POTC's... 90s games being remade.... yeah the industry must be going well if they are bringing back games from 20 years ago! This was always going to happen that a manufacturer would come out and decide to make a game with innovations available. Sure people might be happy with their Stern collections, but dont get all cut up and defensive when someone just does things better.

I feel the same.Stern is second rate.First to Bally/ Williams and now second rate to JJP.Never first always last w innovation

Some credit them with saving pinball.My perspective is they put the genre on life support until JJP arrived.The hope I had in start ups vanished in the JPOP, Skit B TBL
Fiascos.So the Calvary is not coming.

We are all part of a niche hobby that has really remained about the same size since I got in in 2003.This 40% increase has probably come from a combo of them putting less in ,raising prices,and some major city leagues expanding.Otherwise its 20 guys in,20 guys out.

#597 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Keith has been clear in the past that he would never turn off upper playfields, for various reasons.
Seems like its best to just accept that this is intentional design and the way they want the game to be played.

I stand corrected.

#598 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I asked about this, I mean crazy how the upper PF is instantly accessible, unlike Woz or Tspp.
I guess (?) just don’t shoot the ramp if you don’t need to access the upper PF.
Still seems like it can be a neat little PF but I didn’t think I’d want to be up there 20 times a game. AcDc premium lower PF is fun but only in small doses.
I don’t know anything since haven’t watched any videos and don’t know if the rules will make it fun to play all the time or only during certain modes.

Is the upper Playfield important to progressing the game? The thing I like about tspp upper Playfield is that it's important in getting multiball, starting modes, getting rewards and getting jackpot shots. It seems like there is always a reason to shoot the upper Playfield. I hope they do something similar in jjpotc so the shot never seems 'wasted'

#599 2 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

We are all part of a niche hobby that has really remained about the same size since I got in in 2003.This 40% increase has probably come from a combo of them putting less in ,raising prices,and some major city leagues expanding.Otherwise its 20 guys in,20 guys out.

I wonder, the massive spike in prices despite all the new games being produced doesn't make a ton of sense if there aren't more people coming into the hobby than leaving it. Unless the theory is that it's the same number of people but they're five times as into pinball as before (or at least willing to spend five times as much on it).

#600 2 years ago

I wonder if Stern asks the distributors who's buying the machines or are they just concerned with how many are selling?

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