(Topic ID: 296156)

A couple of general questions

By Marshall_ry

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    I’m fairly new to the hobby, but I’ve read enough on pinside to know I may get a little beat up for asking these questions. The answers are probably out there, but I haven’t found them.

    1. When did Stern start using LEDs versus incandescent as the standard for games coming off the factory line? I’m not for bright rainbows, but I do like less energy consumption and less heat.

    2. Why are the 90’s Sega pins generally less desired than Bally/Williams from the same era? It seems to me that Sega’s themes are pretty solid, but I have no idea if the reliability/parts availability should be a turn off from acquiring one in the future. I don’t see many Sega games in location to give a great assessment on how they generally play.

    Just a guy trying to learn a thing or two. Thanks for the help.

    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from Marshall_ry:

    I’m fairly new to the hobby, but I’ve read enough on pinside to know I may get a little beat up for asking these questions. The answers are probably out there, but I haven’t found them.
    1. When did Stern start using LEDs versus incandescent as the standard for games coming off the factory line? I’m not for bright rainbows, but I do like less energy consumption and less heat.
    2. Why are the 90’s Sega pins generally less desired than Bally/Williams from the same era? It seems to me that Sega’s themes are pretty solid, but I have no idea if the reliability/parts availability should be a turn off from acquiring one in the future. I don’t see many Sega games in location to give a great assessment on how they generally play.
    Just a guy trying to learn a thing or two. Thanks for the help.

    Hi and welcome. No harm in asking questions. As for #1, I could be wrong, but I think Star Trek was the first pin to use all LEDs. That said, you can buy an earlier pin and replace the incandescents with LEDs. There’s lots of advice on pinside about that.

    As for #2, others can probably answer better. I think reliability and parts is about equal. It probably has more to do with rule sets, art, overall design and stuff. I had a SEGA X-Files, and it was fine, just a little shallow and repetitive for my tastes even though I am a fan of the show. Art was also just meh.

    #3 2 years ago

    Speaking from experience, Sega games just seem shallow. They bought out Data East and never really innovated from their games.

    They were almost all based on movies or licensed themes and none were able to capture the same experience as Bally/William's. Lots of shoot the ramps or chute.

    I've got a Goldeneye and as much fun as it is, it just seems repetitive relative to my other pins.*edit*, I feel like B/W games tell a bit of a story, where Sega doesn't have the same style of play.

    Doesnt help that Twister was a knockoff of Whirlwind either.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from Marshall_ry:

    I’m fairly new to the hobby, but I’ve read enough on pinside to know I may get a little beat up for asking these questions. The answers are probably out there, but I haven’t found them.
    1. When did Stern start using LEDs versus incandescent as the standard for games coming off the factory line? I’m not for bright rainbows, but I do like less energy consumption and less heat.
    2. Why are the 90’s Sega pins generally less desired than Bally/Williams from the same era? It seems to me that Sega’s themes are pretty solid, but I have no idea if the reliability/parts availability should be a turn off from acquiring one in the future. I don’t see many Sega games in location to give a great assessment on how they generally play.
    Just a guy trying to learn a thing or two. Thanks for the help.

    What an interesting pair of general questions!

    Stern went all LED around 2014/2015. They started doing LED games around 2011 with their “LE editions.”

    Plenty of people like the Sega games. I find them pretty unimaginative with terrible flippers and sound. But when the more desirable 90s Williams games started to skyrocket in price people started to give them a second look.

    They can be fun but they do pale in comparison.

    #5 2 years ago

    I appreciate the responses. I was a Nintendo 64 goldeneye kid, so the theme resonates with me. I also told my 8 year old nephew I’d get him a pin and would rather drop Sega style coin on a pin that I’m not sure he’d be very kind to, hence my focus on durability/reliability.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from Marshall_ry:

    I appreciate the responses. I was a Nintendo 64 goldeneye kid, so the theme resonates with me. I also told my 8 year old nephew I’d get him a pin and would rather drop Sega style coin on a pin that I’m not sure he’d be very kind to, hence my focus on durability/reliability.

    He won’t notice the shallowness of the rules most likely. SEGA is probably good bang for your buck in that situation.

    #7 2 years ago

    I wouldn't say Sega's games were BAD, per se, but the BLY/WMS of the day were more loved by players and play a little more solid in my opinion.

    A lot of people overlook South Park for a fun players game and the theme did well for earning on location and still does. It can be very repetitive though.

    I just pulled up the list of Sega games on IPDB to refresh my memory and to be honest there isn't a lot that gets me excited. Maybe a good handful.

    #8 2 years ago

    Sega made pins from 1994 to 1999, basically when pinball was dying. And they didn't have good distribution. Usually smaller distributors or not at all.

    Though South Park has been credited as the talking turd that killed Williams.

    LTG : )

    #9 2 years ago

    The Sega question is an interesting one. When Sega bought Data East, they dumped a bunch of money into R&D. That's the only reason we got the big display. They also spent a lot of money upgrading art work printing process for the cabinets. If you look at the first few Sega games with the bigger displays the cabinet art is nicer then games data east were doing. While Maverick and Frankenstein were simple games both had some neat toys. Baywatch and Batman seemed to be showing some real promise. Apollo 13 was as packed as any game. Then they cut back on back the funding and the games got less innovative. The showcase cabinet was the last effort to elevate their games and make them stick out. Shortly after stern bought them.

    Now to answer the question, looking at games like Space Jam, ID4, JP lost world, etc., these games were being sold new next to games like ToM, TOTAN, MB, and MM. Even at $500 less, no one was buying Sega games unless they had large gamerooms to fill.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    Even at $500 less, no one was buying Sega games unless they had large gamerooms to fill.

    Or for an operator that had a lesser location that needed a new pin, but not an expensive one.

    LTG : )

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from Marshall_ry:

    I’m fairly new to the hobby, but I’ve read enough on pinside to know I may get a little beat up for asking these questions. The answers are probably out there, but I haven’t found them.
    1. When did Stern start using LEDs versus incandescent as the standard for games coming off the factory line? I’m not for bright rainbows, but I do like less energy consumption and less heat.
    2. Why are the 90’s Sega pins generally less desired than Bally/Williams from the same era? It seems to me that Sega’s themes are pretty solid, but I have no idea if the reliability/parts availability should be a turn off from acquiring one in the future. I don’t see many Sega games in location to give a great assessment on how they generally play.
    Just a guy trying to learn a thing or two. Thanks for the help.

    On Question 2 - full disclosure all I own are DE and Sega pins so a bit bias - but I would say it comes down to a few things in regards to those being cheaper and less desirable. Some of it is personal preference stuff, like the playfield artwork choices made by DE and Sega has divided opinions regularly. Personally I don't mind it, some people hate it. Some people feel DE were too flasher heavy. Obviously it wasn't such an issue when using incandescents but nowdays a full set of LED flashers can be a put off for some. Game rules and depth in games can vary. From a rule set standpoint I really like Jurassic Park and TFTC but Lethal Weapon and Twister lack in that department but do have a fun factor. When profitability was an issue for Sega they were started cutting on costs where possible it seems. Can only imagine this would impact on the design and put creativity constraints on the team. Small things like stereo sound were being omitted from the final product to save on the cost of a speaker and additional circuitry. So all of that over time has put a bit of a divide between the Williams Ballys and the DE's Sega's. Over time the price divide just evolved and that does play a part to the perception they are lower quality. Would I rather own Medieval Madness over a Twister? Yes.. but I would rather enjoy owning 2 or 3 pins over a single higher priced one. Everyone is different. There is no doubt though there were better pinballs being made in that era than what Sega were producing. It's just now the price divide is much larger than it was back then.

    Finally just on playability of Sega pins I have only ever played Twister. There are plenty of reviews out there by people passionate about their games so I would draw some opinions specific to the game your looking at. Twister doesn't get alot of love and only 1600 made but I really like it. It has a pretty basic rule set but you can adjust the rules to make it much more challenging. Also this game plays fast. Has a fairly cool magnet disc multi-ball and when set up right plays well in my opinion. In regards to parts, there still out there to be found mostly. Like any game, a specific ramp may be a problem but in regards to coils, kickers, motors and boards etc. You can source them the same way you would any other pinball.

    Hope this helps.

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