(Topic ID: 163372)

A Boob Job: A Jacks Open Restoration Wiki


By beelzeboob

3 years ago



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  • 110 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 days ago by Silverstreak02
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders

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There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 3 years ago
Quoted from Topcard:

Since newbies may be reading this thread, I would caution against sanding off the paint as it could contain lead. Lead was only outlawed in homes in 1978 and continued in commercial use for some time after that. There are some very cheap, eco friendly orange strippers that do a great job removing most of the paint.

I agree. The one thing though, is that if the wood is delaminating at all, using a stripper can exacerbate the delamination. Just something to be aware of. If you have a solid cabinet, by all means strip the paint off as much as possible.

#52 3 years ago

I also want to thank everybody who has given input in this thread so far. It's already one of the most informative threads I've done, and we haven't even gotten started yet! And that's the best part of Pinside, IMO...

#53 3 years ago

And thanks for always making me laugh, beelzeboob!

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Nothing personal, I have tried and tried (and tried) to have some sort of interest in EM games but I just cant get excited or interested in them. I do play them at the pinball museum in Banning and at the PHOF (and have owned several) but rarely can I get through a whole game.

Ah, I see. I just thought you might be trying to avoid some kind of EM community related drama I had missed.

At least you've given EMs a try. I guess they're just not everyone's cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I love the simple rulesets and the awesomely complicated, yet elegant, analog programming. Playing and repairing EMs makes me feel a connection to the past.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from ViolinSteve:

No Slayer for you!

We want this to be a smooth restoration thread. Possibly some Barry White...

Throw on some Barry White and you'll strip that baby in no time.

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Chapter Two: The Cabinet
...

Next up: I fire up the HVLP sprayer to paint the black spatter, and get ready for some stenciling (after at least 5 days of curing!).

Hold on there buddy! You have to elaborate a bit more on the splatter part. What kind of paint did you use? What was the pressure setting? Nozzle size?

Thanks!

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from Fred736:

Hold on there buddy! You have to elaborate a bit more on the splatter part. What kind of paint did you use? What was the pressure setting? Nozzle size?
Thanks!

Haven't done it yet. I'll let you know when I do it.

#58 3 years ago

Looking good Boobster! It's pretty cool how well that Sealcoat stuff works. After running your finger across it, it's so smooooooooth. Though beware you'll still need to Bondo any micro-cracks/splits in the wood which are easy to miss sometimes.

#59 3 years ago

Following. Boob FTW!

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Looking good Boobster! It's pretty cool how well that Sealcoat stuff works. After running your finger across it, it's so smooooooooth. Though beware you'll still need to Bondo any micro-cracks/splits in the wood which are easy to miss sometimes.

Okay...you must not realize you're talking to a total anal retentive when we're talking about pinball. So after reading this, I went back and re-Bondo'ed again, then resanded and repainted.

Thanks a lot.

I hope to do the spatter in tomorrow's heat wave.

#61 3 years ago

Chapter Two: The Cabinet
Part Two: Splatter Time!

Finished the black splatter, and I'm really happy with the way it came out. As promised, here are all the details of how I did it:

I used Rustoleum Satin Black paint (see the picture below) in an HVLP sprayer without thinning it at all. It's oil-based, by the way, not the latex stuff.

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I turned the compressor up to between 20 and 25 (I didn't really care where in that range it was since I knew I would be controlling the air flow at the nozzle, which was much less than that). I used a 1.4mm tip and opened the paint flow knob almost all the way, then turned the air flow knob down almost all the way.

Now, here's the tricky part: You really need to experiment with this before shooting the stuff on your cabinet. I had tons of cardboard lying around to practice on, and I only had to adjust the air flow to get it where it wasn't atomizing, but splattering...and not too much and not dripping! Here are two important things to remember:

1. If you're shooting with the paint gun pointing down (if you're standing above the cabinet), the paint will come out differently than if you're shooting it perpendicular to the surface you're painting. Be sure to test-paint your cardboard (or whatever) using the same angle you'll be shooting the real thing at.

2. Since you have to flash the paint for 10 minutes or so before moving the cabinet and painting another surface, you have to test the gun every single time before you begin painting again. Why? I'm guessing the paint begins to clog in the nozzle a bit, so I found that each time I was going to start painting again, I had to open the air flow a tiny bit more to achieve the same spatter effect I had 10 or 15 minutes (or less) earlier. ALWAYS test before shooting - better to screw up the cardboard than the cabinet.

The preparation and caution in doing it properly takes some time. The spraying, of course, takes seconds (and the cleanup sucks). WAY better than the toothbrush or splatter brush method, and far less messy.

And there you have it - here are the pics, and now I get to wait a week before stenciling.

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#63 3 years ago

Yeah, your getting better at this - good job!

#64 3 years ago

REALLY NICE JOB KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK !
TOMMY

#65 3 years ago

In preparation for doing the stenciling, I did a bit of research and learned that Krylon Banner Red is the preferred red-of-choice for a Jacks Open. Unfortunately, I did the white and splatter using Rustoleum, and there are a bunch of web pages crying the blues about the bad things that can happen when you mix them. So I figured I'd experiment first.

I sprayed a wood piece with the Rustoleum Heirloom White first. Then put Rustoleum Satin Black on the right side, Krylon Banner Red in the middle, then Krylon Black on the left. The Krylons will be used for stenciling, and the satin black was used to paint around the top part of the cabinet where the back box sits.

Then I clearcoated everything on the wood piece with Krylon satin clear (which I plan to do after stenciling). The good news is that everything "took" nicely with no bubbling, cracking, etc. The bad news is that the Banner Red looks way brighter (even pinker!) than the nice red on the cap. Now, I understand that there was a bunch of dirt, etc. on the original which would make it look darker (even the white looks almost brown on the original), but I wanted to know everybody's thoughts on this red or should I go with a Rustoleum Heritage Red which is a little darker?

I've attached pictures in shade, in the sun, and a swatch of the original red.

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#66 3 years ago

What happens if you apply a second coat to the red? Does it darken to your satisfaction?

Otherwise this could be your opportunity to select an acceptable red in Rustoleum.

#67 3 years ago

I was happy with the montana brand of spray paints and they have a lot more color choices than the rattle cans. You can get them via Amazon or in my case case there were 2 retailers of it within 20 minutes of where I live.

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

What happens if you apply a second coat to the red? Does it darken to your satisfaction?
Otherwise this could be your opportunity to select an acceptable red in Rustoleum.

That's a good idea, but I won't have that option when stenciling. You have to remove the stencils within 10 minutes of spraying, so there's no chance of a second coat.

I'll look into the Montana colors, although I don't think I can get them around by me. I might have to look into Rustoleum or just go with the Krylon.

#69 3 years ago

Rustoleum sunrise red is it. Deeper red and not as pink.

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#70 3 years ago

Jeff (Pinball Pimp) used the Red Sunrise from Rustoleum to paint this Xenon:

http://pinballpimpstencils.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/GALLERY-Bally-XENON-2.jpg

Take a look and see if this is what you want.

Yves

#71 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Rustoleum sunrise red is it. Deeper red and not as pink.

And no compatibility issues now either.

#72 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I also want to thank everybody who has given input in this thread so far. It's already one of the most informative threads I've done, and we haven't even gotten started yet! And that's the best part of Pinside, IMO...

What the hell is going on here? A Beezle thread that has not been tossed down the stairs into the basement, 24 days old with 2 pages and 72 posts! Has the world changed its tilt or something?

OK seriously,, keep up the work you are doing and post some photos, by the end of this restoration you might just earn an EM Lapel Pin, and the laminated EM Ownership Card.

#73 3 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

What the hell is going on here? A Beezle thread that has not been tossed down the stairs into the basement, 24 days old with 2 pages and 72 posts! Has the world changed its tilt or something?
OK seriously,, keep up the work you are doing and post some photos, by the end of this restoration you might just earn an EM Lapel Pin, and the laminated EM Ownership Card.

Agree 120%. Really can appreciate the EM's now than I ever had before. Enjoy following the updates Boob!

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

That's a good idea, but I won't have that option when stenciling. You have to remove the stencils within 10 minutes of spraying, so there's no chance of a second coat.
I'll look into the Montana colors, although I don't think I can get them around by me. I might have to look into Rustoleum or just go with the Krylon.

If you use Montana rattle cans, stick with the Montana White line.

Montana Black is too matte and is like flat latex paint in terms of dirt resistance. Which is basically none.

Don't overlook Liquitex cans. They're good too. Only limitation is the lack of whites... couldn't find a close enough match for a base white.

#75 3 years ago

How have I missed this thread?
I read too quickly and listen too fast.
I thought this was a Bride of Pinbot resto post!
I'm in and rooting for you all the way

#76 3 years ago
Quoted from embryonjohn:

How have I missed this thread?
I read too quickly and listen too fast.
I thought this was a Bride of Pinbot resto post!
I'm in and rooting for you all the way

I even PM'ed you since I bought the machine from you.

Glad you found it!

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I even PM'ed you since I bought the machine from you.
Glad you found it!

and that's what led me here. Thanks!

#78 3 years ago

How did the red paint you ultimately selected compare to the red under the front legs?

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

What the hell is going on here? A Beezle thread that has not been tossed down the stairs into the basement, 24 days old with 2 pages and 72 posts! Has the world changed its tilt or something? ...

In the words of Napoleon - "Never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

How did the red paint you ultimately selected compare to the red under the front legs?

Pretty darned close. The problem is that all the red and white was discolored from age and dirt...even a thorough scrubbing didn't get rid of the color change. So while it's slightly lighter than the original color...even under the legs...it's a darker red than that banner red stuff. With the black, it looks great, and like the original.

#81 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Pretty darned close. The problem is that all the red and white was discolored from age and dirt...even a thorough scrubbing didn't get rod of the color change. So while it's slightly lighter than the original color...even under the legs...it's a darker red than that banner red stuff. With the black, it looks great, and like the original.

it is really hard to get a spot on color from a can. but banner red comes close to a lot of the reds gottlieb used. if it was me i would use the sunrise red to to be SAFE. all it takes is one spot to react badly and all you work is for naught...
these are basic colors and once you are done it will look great and no one will tell what shade of red you used. it is those odd colors that are very hard to match that stand out when the wrong shade is used.

#82 3 years ago

i never used the montana paints, but from what i have seen they look great. i have a local paint store that now carries Plutonium spray paint. it is like montana heavy pigment load. they don't have the colors that montana has but a good option for those that don't use a spray gun.

#83 3 years ago

Just popping in with a brief update. It's been like swimming in a vat of hot urine here in Jersey lately ("How's that different from any other day?" I hear you saying...), so it's been way too humid to paint. It's just backing off today, so I can resume stenciling.

The nice thing about this machine is that Pinball Pimp created the stencils from this very machine, so this is like Son of Jacks Open. Or something. Anyway, the red is almost done. Here's where it stands...and I think the Rustoleum sunrise red looks perfect. Let me know if you disagree...

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#84 3 years ago

Stenciling is done. Going to touch up a couple spots, let it cure for a few days, and hit it with some satin clear to knock down the gloss of the stencils (although I do think the "decal effect" of the gloss on top of satin looks pretty cool). Time to clean, tumble, and polish the cabinet hardware for repopulation. More on that next...

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#85 3 years ago

Love it! Nice looking cabinet.

#86 3 years ago

Thank you. And btw...I know I have to resand the bottom of the cabinet. I masked all of that when I painted the white, but that spray gets EVERYWHERE. A little light sanding will get it back to normal.

I just want to do a decent enough job that the Vector boys would have me in their club if I lived in Texas.

Speaking of which, can anybody (and Nico Volta in particular) remind me of what cleaning agent you use to clean up the wires and contacts? I know it's a toothbrush and (maybe?) simple green?

#87 3 years ago

No worries... VECTOR already has a space set aside for ya.

For cleaning wires I just go over them with an alcohol-soaked toothbrush. Switch contacts get swabbed with Q-tip and alcohol, polished with Dremel 443 brush, and Q-tip swab w/alcohol again as a final cleaning step.

I always remove the screws & switch stacks from relays before cleaning and polishing them. Makes it easier to inspect every solder joint and check for loose contacts. Also avoids bending switches & easier to ensure everything is polished and cleaned in there. Perhaps not technically necessary but a good peace of mind thing.

#88 3 years ago

Does anything have to be desoldered and completely removed to be properly cleaned/adjusted and/or repaired?

#89 3 years ago

how were those stencils to work with? easy to apply or 2 people needed?
the colors looks great.

#90 3 years ago

Nope. For relays I just remove the screws so I can move the switch blades out of the ladder and get between the contacts more easily.

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

how were those stencils to work with? easy to apply or 2 people needed?
the colors looks great.

Very easy to apply. Just look at Jeff's (Pinball Pimp) instructional video:

BTW...I just shot a coat of satin clear on the cabinet, and it looks SO much better (and more natural/original) with the stencil paint matching the sheen of the base coat. NOW it looks finished. Assembled pics will go up tomorrow.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Very easy to apply. Just look at Jeff's (Pinball Pimp) instructional video:
» YouTube video
BTW...I just shot a coat of satin clear on the cabinet, and it looks SO much better (and more natural/original) with the stencil paint matching the sheen of the base coat. NOW it looks finished. Assembled pics will go up tomorrow.

Did the "decal" look go away after the clear coat? I just shot the yellow on my C37 and used Montana paints that have a very high pimemtaion and I wound up with the decal effect. I probably used more paint than needed given the pigmentation. Love the pinball pimp stencils though! very easy to use once you get the hang of it.

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from Topcard:

Did the "decal" look go away after the clear coat?

Well, sort of. It got rid of the gloss, so the entire cabinet is satin, which is more natural looking. But the stenciled areas are, of course, raised higher than the rest of the cabinet (as are the splatter dots). Only way defeat that is to use really thinned out paint (especially on the splatters)...but I don't want to do that, and I'm happy with the way it looks. The design looks more robust than factory, as it should, since Gottlieb just slapped a metal stencil down (I think) and gave it a quick once over with the spray.

Once you decide to go the full restoration route, you commit to making the machine better than factory, which means it doesn't necessarily have to look like it came out of the Gottlieb factory, IMO.

1 week later
#94 3 years ago

Quick update:

The heat and humidity here in Jersey this summer has really slowed me down on this restoration, but there's been some progress over the last couple of weeks.

The cabinet is nearly rebuilt. I still need to regrain the lockdown bar and clean up the coin door. Also have to repopulate the inside with the chime box, knocker, and internal hardware...much of which has significant rust. You can get the rust out and buff all you want, but without a rechrome, it'll never look new. And I ain't paying for chrome on a $400 machine. Smaller parts were in the tumbler overnight, and larger parts were buffed with my new bench buffer (and I still have my fingers, thank God!).

The back panel had some significant corrosion as well, and even after sanding, there is still discoloration. I might just get a whole new panel from PBR on my next order.

Back glass is from BGResto, by the way - incredible work!

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#95 3 years ago

Chapter Three: The Playfield
Part One: The Teardown

My favorite part of EM playfields is the easy teardown. The worst part? All the GD staples you have to pull out of the bottom.

Playfield stripped and ready to be shipped to HSA for restoration. I originally was going to do it myself, but I just don't have the time.

One question: The operator sticker on the apron...would you leave it, or remove it? And what would you remove it with? I'm afraid to mess up the apron, which is in pretty good condition at this point.

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#96 3 years ago

I'm a stickler for original, the way it came from the factory. That said, I would remove an operator sticker. As long as it is adhesive alcohol and/or lighter fluid are your friends and will not affect the original screened art while removing the sticker adhesive. Still, with your example, you would need to touch up the art because some is missing. Depending on the level of restoration you want I look for a better, excellent condition, original instruction card holder. You can also refinish yours with the pinball rescue decals.

#97 3 years ago

Hope you took lots of pictures, I'm sure it will be some time before you get it back for reassembly.

I have used WD-40 to remove decals, it worked very well especially the paper type, just be careful in the red and blue painted area's.

#98 3 years ago
Quoted from ckcsm:

Hope you took lots of pictures, I'm sure it will be some time before you get it back for reassembly.
I have used WD-40 to remove decals, it worked very well especially the paper type, just be careful in the red and blue painted area's.

Yep...I always take tons. With the DMD games, though, I desolder everything and separate the harnesses. With this, I've got all the playfield components in approximately the same position on the plywood board. When the playfield comes back, and after a thorough cleaning of all the parts, I'll be able to reconstruct the underside pretty easily.

#99 3 years ago

I'd remove the operator sticker. I first thought you meant the Manufacturer's Certificate on the top apron, which is an obvious keeper, but then I saw the operator's sticker on the bottom apron. It overlays some of the painted apron art and is delaminating at one corner.

It's entirely subjective, in my opinion, but if the operator sticker doesn't add any visual interest, I'd remove it in a second. After all, you are going for the factory look. I have several 1950s bingos that bear the decals of my local Seattle operator, and I value that bit of history, but I'd remove those in a second if they were not in reasonable condition or were positioned in such a way as to obscure part of the factory design.

#100 3 years ago

The cabinet's done. Spent a few hours disassembling, cleaning, and polishing the coin door. Have a few things to screw into the interior (chime box, knocker, playfield supports, etc.), but that can wait for when I put the guts back in. And man, that's a complete train wreck...

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