I don't think they're supposed to reset at the start of the game. The schematic shows that their shared lock in circuit only lets the ABCD relays relax when the Extra Ball and Outhole relays are active at the same time which would open both of the normally closed switches.

Games often have a feature, especially a difficult to achieve feature, that carries over from one game to the next. It's a way to entice you to play another game.

/Mark

In 3 ball mode, they carry over. In 5 ball mode, they get reset. It’s subtle, an on the right side of the schematic. I can do a screen shot if you need it.

Dave

You're right of course. There's a Game Over relay switch (in red) on the right power rail.
Miss-O ABCD relays (resized).jpg
But that raises another question. If the switch in red doesn't open at the end of the game and doesn't release the ABCD relays, a lot more of the game should still be working after game over too including much of the scoring, the flippers, etc. Is that the case?

I have not actually run our game in 3 ball mode, but looking at the schematic, the jump around the game over and reset relays is only for the a, b, c, d, relays. So I’d expect the flippers, etc. to still get shut down.

Dave

Agreed. I wonder though about the OP's situation where the ABCD relays don't reset when the game ends. One possibility is that the Game Over relay switch (in red) doesn't open. If that's the case, the right power rail (red wire) would still be live which would mean that scoring, flippers, etc. might still work after game over.

A simpler possibility is that there might be a short in the 3/5 ball adjust jones plug or related wiring so that the ABCD relays are always connected to the black wire before the Game Over relay switch instead of the red wire after the switch.

True. Could always be someone who liked the three ball behavior and jumpered it intentionally.

I'm confused. Isn't that backwards? It's correct behavior in both cases but for the wrong ball count.

In 3 ball mode the bumper lights should persist across games and the brown-blue wire from the ABCD relay coils should be connected directly to the black power rail wire. In 5 ball mode the bumpers should clear at the end of each game and the brown-blue should be connected instead to the red power rail wire. Is that how your game is wired?

Hi, I'm still trying to figure out why when you hit the center target, and the center target is lit that it seems to cause a short, and doesn't advance the pool light. Can you verify that when you do hit the center target (when the center target is lit or not lit) that you score 10? It doesn't look that way on the schematic, but I do score ten. I'm grasping at straws here.

There are two switches on the center target. One does the score, which is always 10 points, and the other optionally advances the pool balls.

In 5 ball mode, the change relay gets involved, so it doesn’t always advance.
In 3 ball mode, the center target will always cause an advance.

Dave

234A21D3-7C32-4653-BB11-1C335AAC4E9C (resized).jpeg

7DC13292-E756-4CFA-AD82-3623D6A9D1E0 (resized).jpeg

Thanks. To be clear, I assume the target switch is the one closest to the target and the one behind it is the 10 pt one (see photo). The target relay is energized by the center target switch thru the switch "A" on the change relay. Again when you hit the target switch (when the center target is lit) it doesn't energize the target switch and I also get a short. I just can't figure out why?

Target Switch (resized).jpg

Can you post a pic of the bottom-side of that switch you're showing on the topside? Also those two switch contacts are DIRTY!!! They need a bit of flexstone treatment. You can tell what switch is problematic by viewing wire colors on schematic to wire colors on the switch tabs.

To get a short, a low resistance connection is occurring between the yellow wire and the red wire. There are 2 possibilities.

1. The target switch is closing the path on my picture in red. The only thing in that path that’s shouldn’t be zero ohms is the target relay coil. According to the chart on flippers.com, this should have a DC resistance of approximately 14 ohms. Check that, if it’s less than 5, you have a bad coil and need to replace it.

2. There is something else in the path that is giving a short circuit from red to yellow, activated by closing that switch. It could be as simple as 2 terminals on that double switch touching each other, or it could be something touching at the target relay, change relay, or at the playfield Jones plug, or at the 3/5 ball plug. You have to search out all the spots and see if you can find it. You could unsolder the grey-g wire on the target relay coil and see if the short is still there.

Dave
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Hi, I checked the resistance on the target coil and it was around .7-.8 ohms. I just ordered a new one. I'll let you know if that fixes the issue.
Thanks for your help.

Hi Dave, So when I measured the resistance of the target relay coil when it was still wired in, I got the .8 reading. However, when I unsoldered the wires and then measured the resistance of the coil, I got 17.3, which I think means the coil is OK ? Since I had the grey-g wire off the coil, I checked and I was still getting the short. I checked all the other things you mentioned, but I just don't see anything amiss. Since I had the multimeter out I took some more readings:
1. When the 3/5 adj. was in the 5 ball side, from the Gray-R connection on the center target switch to the Gray-R connection on the change relay "A" switch, there was no continuity? I would have thought there would be a connection. However when I plug the 3/5 adj. in the 3 ball side, I got 18.3 ohms, which is probably a problem?

2. From the center target Gray-R connection to the Gray-G connection on the target relay coil, I get 17.9 ohms, in both the 3 or 5 ball option.

What does all that mean?

Correct it’s a carry over feature designed to get you to drop more coin... it’s a great feature IMO.

Hmm. The coil should have measured the same in or out of circuit, since the normally open switches should isolate it. That is probably a clue. The coil is OK.

What exactly did you measure to determine a short with the coil disconnected?
If you measure from Grey-g to yellow and from grey-g to red, what do you get?

Both should be open circuit. You’re likely fighting either a solder tab short, bare wire, or previous repair issue.

Dave