(Topic ID: 191588)

City o'Turds to playable Gold: Shouda-burned-it El Dorado: Gameplay video!


By goingincirclez

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 170 posts
  • 49 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by mark532011
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 158 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

20190325_213554 (resized).jpg
20190324_235703 (resized).jpg
Flipper (resized).jpg
IMG_2522 (resized).JPG
20190320_223939 (resized).jpg
20190321_084745 (resized).jpg
20190321_084753 (resized).jpg
20190319_233933 (resized).jpg
20190319_233949 (resized).jpg
20190319_233801 (resized).jpg
20190319_233853 (resized).jpg
20190319_233840 (resized).jpg
20190319_233832 (resized).jpg
Engineering (resized).png
20190319_084635 (resized).jpg
20190319_084716 (resized).jpg

There are 170 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 1 year ago

Wow! Nice work. Glad to see that you brought it back to life and didn't part it out.

#152 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

I think you are a bit too hard on yourself or maybe too humble. Because, you're doing great work...

Thank you. Yes, I'm permanently hard-wired (with reinforcement from my upbringing) to be probably more than hard on myself. Which is not to say I'm not proud of the work I do, but... compared to most of what gets hyped and liked on this site, most folks wouldn't give my efforts the time of day. There's always someone far better than I can hope to be, so I stay realistic and do what I can within my limitations. But the work is self-gratifying. And I won't lie, nods from folks who understand and/or appreciate it is more so. Speaking of that Bad Cats, it made enough of an impression when I took it to Louisville Expo a couple weeks ago, that I caught a few people surprised that it was "hand done", and it even made national news, oops... so maybe I know what I'm doing after all. But the next project always proves I don't know everything, so I just do what I can and learn from it.

#153 1 year ago

OK, so here's more detail on how I got the game running, and more about the problem I'm stuck on - which I'll probably break off into a different post in hopes to catch more assistance, since I'm sure most folks tuned out of this thread after its couple years of entropy

~~~~

GETTING IT STARTING

So Clay's Guides are awesome. And the Gottlieb EM "Free Play" hack seems pretty simple, in line with my Williams and Bally EM's: permanently close (or open) one switch on the credit unit, and you're done. So I did that on this Gottlieb "half-moon" unit. Still didn't work.

But what finally did it, was permanently closing a SECOND switch... the one that looks like a tilt switch right behind the start switch on the coin door. I'm not sure what that switch is. I'd previously noted that closing that switch turned the coin lockout coils on and otherwise woke the game up, but that was when it was in "mostly hacked" state. Anyway, at least in my case, "Free Play" took two switches, but both were easy to close.

As for getting it to reset, it was the usual gremlins: found one broken wire on the Reset Relay... of course the score reels needed some work to get them to reliably hit "zero"... there was another "maybe it's touching??" set of switch terminals on another relay... all easy fixes.

Once the game started, I was thrilled to find that all the scoring switches work! Some will need cleaning and adjustment but I at least know they're wired properly. All the drops work in terms of scoring, but they don't reset when complete - only on the next ball (is that proper?). Both slings and both pops work. Outhole and ball count works, though I think it may not be ending the game properly... but I've got more pressing issues to worry about.

QUIZ!

That pic I posted a while back of the flipper mech: did you spot what was wrong? Look again before reading further

Someone put a Williams EOS switch in there. Which fits and "works" but it's dimensionally different *just enough* to where when the flipper is active, the crank will short (close) the switch again. So it's kind of self-defeating and needs to be replaced.

AND WHAM INTO THE WALL OF ISSUES

I have an issue where it's not scoring 5000 for the "when lit" items, nor advancing or moving the spots. It doesn't do so when I press a 5000 relay either. But maybe, I think that's related to the biggest two issues I have:

1) The rollover "move spot" switch shorts a relay and basically "ends" the game because the Q relay and Hundred / Thousands reels (I am not sure I recall which ATM) lock on, and the only way to clear this is to turn it off.

2) Related to #1? The hundreds reel is... borked. It works mechanically. It's set up like the other 3. BUT on "9" it locks on and won't release.

Here are some pics of the mech; First the switches at Zero:

100_zero (resized).jpg

Then switches at 1 thru 8:

100_1-8 (resized).jpg

Finally at 9:

100-9 (resized).jpg

Troubleshooting that, I discovered something very weird. That second swtich, the "runout" switch, which is normally open EXCEPT for "9", is actually shorted! I have continuity (tone) between its terminals. And yet only when that swtich closes, the coil fires - no other reels bear either condition! Normally the numbers advance so the coil releases BUT the "9" closes that switch, so... we have a lock.

Of note: I have to spread the middle switch apart (normally open) to get this to work at all. But then the pawl's upswing on "9" closes it anyway and it's back to the problem.

Troubleshooting this, it's apparently been a problem for a while: one of the contacts on the 100s relay was almost burned off and loose. I resoldered it in place for now to get a reliable connection. And of course inspected gaps, etc:

100relaycontact (resized).jpg

100relaystack (resized).jpg

100relaystack2 (resized).jpg

Always so difficult to photograph those, but hopefully it's clear enough.

If there is a short, it's not in the PF - happens when the PF is disconnected. The "Short" is not in the head either, it only appears when I connect the bottom panel. Trying to trace the "short" via schematic leads, only place I can see is the score motor and reset relay. But everything looks good to me there (I did bend one questionable terminal on Motor 3 that "might" have been grounding to the bracket. No fix though.

3motorshort (resized).jpg

resetstack1 (resized).jpg

resetstack2 (resized).jpg

While futzing with this I eventually got it tuned to where it would "skip" the 9 and go to zero but that meant the Thousands reel would not advance. It does however "prove" the 100s reel is mechanically functional, more or less. I also made sure its EOS switches were no longer stuck closed: both the 100 and 1000 reel EOS switches were stuck closed when I first looked that them. Still, the problems remain.

This is a real head scratcher. I spent far too many hours on it yesterday. It seems like I'm so close, arrgh!

100unitstack (resized).jpg
#154 1 year ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Thank you. Yes, I'm permanently hard-wired (with reinforcement from my upbringing) to be probably more than hard on myself. Which is not to say I'm not proud of the work I do, but... compared to most of what gets hyped and liked on this site, most folks wouldn't give my efforts the time of day. There's always someone far better than I can hope to be, so I stay realistic and do what I can within my limitations. But the work is self-gratifying. And I won't lie, nods from folks who understand and/or appreciate it is more so. Speaking of that Bad Cats, it made enough of an impression when I took it to Louisville Expo a couple weeks ago, that I caught a few people surprised that it was "hand done", and it even made national news, oops... so maybe I know what I'm doing after all. But the next project always proves I don't know everything, so I just do what I can and learn from it.

I am rubbish with mechanical and anything woodworking. I do have a background in computer repair as my 9-5 job is a computer tech. I also own my own comic business where I write/produce and create my own independent comics.
The reasons why I bring that up, is because I am terrified of working on my own pins. And when I read threads like yours. It gives me hope.
As I think sometimes we want our pins to stay perfect and pristine... But, the only way that can happen is, if they stay covered with a sheet out of the light and never played.
And so I need to remind myself. If something isn't working or if it is broken or battered or weathered. Not to be so afraid and timid of attempting a repair. Because as long as I keep my wits about me, I can't really make it worse. Even if it doesn't wind up being a 100% restore. If it looks better. Than that is a win.

And your restorations remind me of an old story I once read. About a person who couldn't figure out what to paint. And he sat their pondering hours on end what to paint. Until someone took his brush and just splattered lots of colors and paint on the canvas. Then he realized. Now it doesn't matter what I paint. Anything I do will be better than this mess. The message is just get started and don't worry so much. Or as I say break the white.

And I think that holds true to pinball repair. Really like what you did with this pin. You brought it back to life. And who cares if it isn't perfect. It looks nice now. And it is a somewhat classic layout. And a drop target lovers dream.
I hope to be able to do what you do one day. As I hope to restore pins with my brother and one of my friends.
And I think you are a good role model for what a pinhead should be. So keep up the good work. And hopefully when you're done with this restore. You can have another one that you and your daughters can work on...
And I hope you will never run out of space for restoring pinballs. As I think these pins could be a great thing to pass down to your children.

#155 1 year ago

I hope I understand this correctly. The switch gaps on the score reels are critical. In the '9' position, the mid and top switches should be open. If the top switch is closed, the score reel won't advance.
As for a ground causing a short on the score motor, I've had that happen after reassembling the 'C' switch stacks. Another thing to check are ALL of the switch tabs. Make sure there not touching other tabs unless it looks factory. Hope this helps

#156 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

[really thoughtful response worth reading

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and perspective. I think you and I are on similar wavelengths, at least - maybe its a Chicagoland (where I'm from w00t) thing, ha ha. As I mentioned way back earlier in this thread, an encounter with an automotive restoration photo album apparently had a profound impact on my life. So did the movie "The Brave Little Toaster" - I always hate to throw in the towel on something that might be fixed, or have useful life or purpose to lend. But it's also about just making the effort. Yes, this is not the perfect restore. BUT - and this is the important part - it didn't NEED to be!

My approach is to keep moving, keep learning, keep trying. What was the point of this "restore"? To get a functioning game. To that end, I'm close. If I wanted showroom perfection, there's lots of El Dorados out there that are either already done, or better candidates. So oxidized unseen screw heads and dirty wires and other features are irrelevant here. If I was concerned with them I might never have gotten started. High-end guys would part out or look elsewhere and if we were all high-end, this thing would be mulch.

Meanwhile, I learn more each time, and each restore ups my game - "next time" I invest in the next tool, the next time-consuming process, etc. Meanwhile, my finished games are unique: they have stories, they have tells, they have history, they are one-of-a-kind. Fully-perfect restores are a dime-a-dozen by comparison. Which is not to disrespect them or the effort that goes into them; I've just found my happy medium.

I have a good friend who agonizes over perfection and won't start anything he doesn't think he can finish to make brag worthy. So he rarely starts anything and most of what he does, languishes. I sympathize with this, and I'll admit I have my own stalled projects too... but on the flipside he's always shocked at how much I accomplish, and sincerely impressed. It's funny. "The enemy of good is perfect".

Anyhow - if I can do any of this, I'm sure you can too. You just need to get started and be willing to fail, and to learn, and to reach out. A lof of folks helped me along the way here too, and I try to pay it forward when I can.

Aaannnd I'll shut up now

#157 1 year ago

MEANWHILE - SOME SUCCESS! Problem #1 - the shorting "move spot" rollover and target - is solved!

I actually forgot about the standup target that is also used to "move spot". And it did the same thing: caused a lockon in the Q relay. Hmm. So I started looking at the schematic and traced things to a new realization: I had never really paid attention to the Advance Unit under the playfield. You know, the GIANT FREAKING STEPPER UNIT. D'oh! But it looked really nice and worked mechanically so, meh? And on the schematic, whenever I saw "advance unit" I thought that was the dual-disc "AS" style relay in the head... you know, the type of relays for advancing counts and bonuses and which are infamously known trouble points.

But nope. Tracing a common wire from the standup to the rollover led to that stepper unit. Which looked fine! But then I realized it wasn't working. And suddenly the function of the "Q" relay - "advance lockout" - made definitive sense. So I looked closer. And holy crap, this one was so stupidly @!&^@&^! devious:

20190318_182735 (resized).jpg

See that coil? That yellow one? One of the very few coils to have its wrapper intact? No reason I should have thought to look there... but I finally did... and one of its red wire leads was broken between the wrapper and the bracket! So it wasn't connected. Which meant the "Q" relay was locking on because the Advance Coil couldn't fire to advance the spots and release the relay.

So that was an easy fix: I can move the spots and confirm all of the controlled lights (save one apparently bad socket) work now!

~~~~~

That Hundreds reel though? Eff that thing. I still can't figure out what's wrong. But I've not really tried since I fixed the Advance relay. One thing at a time.

#158 1 year ago

HOLY HELL. I MIGHT HAVE FIXED THE SCORE REEL, AND IT'S A FREAKING DOOZY!!!!

I’m not 100% sure because it was 3:30am when I finally got some success… but it felt right. Will have to wait until tonight to test it out for real.

Yes, this is a LONG post but please do read along... because I will try to illustrate the depth of HOURS of despair and thought and angst that led me astray and finally, to the right solution. Either this will help someone in the future... or you can all laugh at my expense while enjoying a cold one.

Regardless, if this game is otherwise typical of Gottlieb EM’s I might have to reconsider adopting them because of the wires, and schematics. But mainly the effing wires!

Because it’s not sensible to use wires with easily distinguished colors. No, Gottlieb muddies it with so many that look too damn-near-identical. I ask you: what’s the difference between “with tracer” and “mottled”? As if “WH-BLK” and “WH+BLK” weren’t confusingly close enough, you can add fade and/or dirt to make colors like “orange” and “brown”, or “white” and “slate”, look identical. So guess what happens when you have combos like “OR+BR” vs. “OR-BR” vs. “BR+OR” vs. “BR-OR” ALL IN THE SAME DAMN AREA!?!?! Think you figured that out, smartass? Well let’s add gauge/size differences in the same harness for good measure (did you get the fat one or the thin one?)... AND when you hit a Jones connector, most color schemes will carry through but some won’t. But don’t worry! The ones that don’t might arbitrarily keep a “trace” or “mottle” color that looks like another nearby one just to confuse you. So double-check that schematic to be sure but beware: “Due to circumstances beyond our control, wire colors may be different”.

No kidding. #^%&@& you, Gottlieb.

Now into that minefield, for my case let’s add, because I'm a F***ing glutton for punishment: a *literal* rat’s (OK, mice's, whatever) nest. When I found this game several wires were chewed through, some in multiple places. Others bore evidence of previous human cuts and hackery. Several jones plugs and/or receptacles were loose from their carriers.

But by process of elimination I connected things as sense, colors, and schematics seemed to dictate. Ahem… but of course, the colors / similarities were not completely clear at the time so assumptions had to be made. And when I first tested the game? "Eh, stuck score reel, typical problem, easy fix, no big deal".

Goddammit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

So on the hundreds reel, after far too much time spent looking for “obvious” faults like stuck switches, or frayed / hidden shorts in the wiring harness, etc etc etc I was still nowhere. The runout switch was still shorting itself. Finally I had the overdue genius idea to quit looking for a “short” and instead find the source of the voltage residing on the circuit path to the reel’s coil. Of course the first wires I suspected and disconnected, had none…. After more time I came to find the “BR-RED” (or is that “BR+RED”?) wire on the switch had 29V going through it. AH!

I traced it from the switch on the reel, to the receptacle in the head. In the plug the wire color changes but goes back to the A relay as shown on the schematic, so that’s the one. It test it and… voltage there, which shouldn't be (none of the other 3 reels have voltage on their line from this relay). Well the switch here on the relay doesn’t look shorted, or is it? To be sure, I disconnect the wire and STILL have voltage at the reel… WTF?! Is there a short feeding the wire upstream? Ugh. It doesn’t look that way, but given the as-found condition I suppose the only way I can be absolutely sure is to cut the harness loom apart

Arrgh, no shorts in the wire. Which is now disconnected from its source so how the F*** is 29V still getting into this this reel switch??

This is when I realized that despite using a flashlight and cleaners to help me, the #&^@ wires are simply too damn indistinguishably similar… I kept second-guessing myself. So obviously I must have accidentally probed the *OTHER* (BR+R? / BR-R? / R+BR? / R-BR?) wire when I was tracing from the switch to the receptacle in the head. ARRGH!

Back to the head to tone the wire from the runout switch to the harness. OK got it. For real this time. I'm sure of it. I think. Because hey, it goes from “BR-/+RED” to “BR-/+...white”? Keeping a color like the other one did so that must be it? Trace into the relay board and….

...WTF, this is daisy chaining several relays together, not direct to “A” like the schematic. Goddammit did I grab the wrong wire YET AGAIN WHY MUST THEY ALL LOOK SO SIMILAR EVEN AS I TONE THEM OUT?

No. Really. THIS is “the one”, even though it’s going to several places, that have 29V. WTF. So that explains the voltage, sure… but I thought this should have been going only to the A relay. Indeed, it’s *actually the right color* (?) listed on the schematic?! But it’s not going to the right place?! But ALL of these solder points are factory, and a PITA, so they've gotta be original, so JUST WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!

I look at the A relay to identify all four colors for all four reels, and trace them to the prongs on the Jones connector to the head. Incidentally, some of those (factory) wires are different than what’s on the schematic because fuck me that's why. And working back from there, something else now seems odd: nevermind the colors being confusing, but it seems that at least on the male connector, the A pins for the reels are all in a continuous row... yet on the backbox, the female sockets kind of skip in pairs??? Sonuva, let me check and tone everything AGAIN.

Then it hits me: some wires are (un)known to change color... Others are indistinguishable... And some of those jones sockets, when I found them, were loose because the connector itself was almost falling apart…. (!!!!!)HOLY SHIT could I (or someone previous) had swapped two of the female sockets in the head?!?!? They are all clearly factory soldered but sure enough, hmm, the slack on one wire looks a *little* tight, while another one has *some* excess… OMG one is the suspect connection for the Hundreds reel! Screw it, let’s take the Jones receptacle apart and swap those two ports.

HOLY SHIT IT WORKS!!!!

At least, in the sense that the reel quit locking on. When I demo finger-played a game, everything worked, save dial-ins and other tweaks. But it was way beyond reason to still be out of bed, so I called it a night on a positive note.

Hopefully solving this nightmare wasn’t all a dream...!!!!

(Also, PBR sent the posts they forgot to pack last week... they arrived yesterday so now I can finally see the pf all put back together!)

20190319_084635 (resized).jpg

20190319_084716 (resized).jpg

#159 1 year ago

And this is why this electrical engineer will probably never own an EM

#160 1 year ago
Quoted from Zitt:

And this is why this electrical engineer will probably never own an EM

Engineering (resized).png

Especially when the chimes keep going off below your sleeping spouse at 3am

I'm only just a wannabe engineer so if I can figure this out, I'm sure you can! It just requires a systemic approach.

Plus look at the bright side: this proves you can't really kill an EM. I mean the connectors for a coil and "switch matrix" were essentially swapped / backwards: do you know what kind of havoc erupts in a SS game when that happens?!?! (Hint, refer to above graphic again )

#161 1 year ago

IT WORKS!!!!

The broken-down, chewed-up, dirt-filled, open-backed barn-estate WTF-did-I-just-get-myself-into-with-this-auction, folks said chop and burn it, refugee pin was not a wholly lost cause - I played the first test games yesterday with only minor / expected / easy issues!

But first, some pics illustrating the "Color-Blind Rat's Nest of Despair" ordeal from yesterday:

20190319_233832 (resized).jpg

So those wires that look like they're all orange? They're not all "orange" according to Gottlieb: one set has -WH. One set has +WH. One set is allegedly BROWN. And there IS a difference if you squint under nuclear winter. WTF?

20190319_233840 (resized).jpg

^ Are they all white? Or slate? Are they solid, traced, or mottled? Or maybe faded red, or orange, or brown, or what? There are FOUR distinct colors there according to the schematic!

20190319_233853 (resized).jpg

You can even break your neck and take things apart for a better look but trust me, it doesn't help.

20190319_233801 (resized).jpg

So look in that picture, in the bottom row of the female connector. See the really bright yellow-green-red wire? To the right of that are a blue+white, (brown?)+white, red+(tan? White? Brown?), and red+green wire. Those are lead to the runout swtiches for the score reels, one wire per reel. OK... so in my case, the problem was that red+"tan" wire was swapped with the plain (brown, or brown+white??) wire right next to it. BUT LOOK what that plain brown wire on the female end is connected to on the male plug: a RED+TAN wire! And why not match those predominantly red wires, like that last set at the very end.... can you see how this was such a infuriatingly stupidly easy mistake to have made??! Lesson: THE COLORS ARE A TRAP

20190319_233949 (resized).jpg

Things don't get any easier on the relay board. Look at all the Red+Yel on the A relay. Or is one supposed to be YEL-RED? Got some RED-WH and RED+WH there too for good measure.

What a #&^@ mess of notation.

20190319_233933 (resized).jpg

It pained me to cut that original wax wire loom. It really did. But it was the only way to fully unravel just what was going on, when it seemed like every connection was potentially suspect. At least I got it bundled back together nicely. I'll probably turn the zipper locks downward to hide them visually, though (says the guy who wasn't bothered by oxidized screw heads and whatnot - geez I am not right in the head).

Hopefully I'll share a gameplay video in the next day or so. I might just have to break down and spend the $75 on flipper rebuild kits, though... and would wait until then. I can tell this game is going to be brutal: the drops don't reset until you hit every last one of them, across however many balls? HAHAHA that's evil!

QUICK HIT LIST OF DUMB ISSUES FOUND AND FIXED

- 5000pt "E" relay missing a spring
- Switch on "E" relay (the furthest, last, bottom, most-impossible-to-see-in-the-whole-damn-game) stuck closed
- Thousands reel stuck: clean
- No 10K reel advance: fix 9 switch on 1K reel
- Upper left flipper chatter: hold winding improperly connected
- Left flippers weak: lower left coil winding improperly connected in a *different* fashion
- Flippers bounce: EOS switches bent
- No 5th ball: adjust switch gap on count unit
- No game reset: fix broken wire on reset "A" relay
- No spot / replay advance: rebuild gummed dual-disc "AS" relay in head
- Drops stuck: adjust mech and coil alignments
- Repair / replace missing/broken swtich leaves and terminals (scoring, relay, and motor)
- Misc pf swtich tuning, adjustments, etc

But man, it's been gratifying to get this going. It's not pretty, but it's a thing of beauty.

#162 1 year ago

Wow, just wow. Great patience, incredible work on the PF. Hope you enjoy it for many years.

#163 1 year ago

Yeah, I think I'm gonna need a flipper rebuild kit. The performance of the lower left is so random: full power, wet rope weak, solid, chattery... and the coil gets HOT. This coil was mis-terminated at its windings, so even though it ohms out OK, I'm suspecting that something is intermittently shorting internally.

But honestly, the game is playable and fun and no worse than a typical "dial in maintenance" game at this point, so I'm pretty happy. I think the 5000 points awards aren't consistent either, so I have some digging to do there as well. Also the Thousands reel likes to stick at 5 or 6 on occasion. Which is weird... I have never seen that on my other EMs before; "9-0-1" are the trouble spots, not digits in the middle.

Because guests will be at the house tonight I buttoned the game with glass, which meant I had to install the apron and gauge. Which were in poor condition: rusty, tarnished, and painted with that stupid soluble ink that just wipes off if you try to clean them. I didn't like how they looked as-found, and would have liked stark white even less.

I had debated if I should (re)paint the cabinet, which was originally white. I honestly *like* the faded, tan / sandy patina on this one (and most all original El Dorados) and couldn't really imagine it all white. Then I found a photo online:

IMG_2522 (resized).JPG

Yeah... call me crazy, but for some reason I actually like the "tan" cabs better! So at least the debate was settled... but when I mock-installed my original White apron a few days ago, ugh - the contrast was awful. Too much white.

So I decided to get creative with some leftover contact paper:

20190320_223939 (resized).jpg

Needs some further dress-up, which I have planned... but it's not terrible. Better than the nasty as-found condition. At least I had the original instruction and former-life free-play cards to break it up visually. And the woodgrain makes a shooter gauge after all!

20190321_084753 (resized).jpg

20190321_084745 (resized).jpg

#164 1 year ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Yeah, I think I'm gonna need a flipper rebuild kit. The performance of the lower left is so random: full power, wet rope weak, solid, chattery... and the coil gets HOT. This coil was mis-terminated at its windings, so even though it ohms out OK, I'm suspecting that something is intermittently shorting internally.
But honestly, the game is playable and fun and no worse than a typical "dial in maintenance" game at this point, so I'm pretty happy. I think the 5000 points awards aren't consistent either, so I have some digging to do there as well. Also the Thousands reel likes to stick at 5 or 6 on occasion. Which is weird... I have never seen that on my other EMs before; "9-0-1" are the trouble spots, not digits in the middle.
Because guests will be at the house tonight I buttoned the game with glass, which meant I had to install the apron and gauge. Which were in poor condition: rusty, tarnished, and painted with that stupid soluble ink that just wipes off if you try to clean them. I didn't like how they looked as-found, and would have liked stark white even less.
I had debated if I should (re)paint the cabinet, which was originally white. I honestly *like* the faded, tan / sandy patina on this one (and most all original El Dorados) and couldn't really imagine it all white. Then I found a photo online:
[quoted image]
Yeah... call me crazy, but for some reason I actually like the "tan" cabs better! So at least the debate was settled... but when I mock-installed my original White apron a few days ago, ugh - the contrast was awful. Too much white.
So I decided to get creative with some leftover contact paper:
[quoted image]
Needs some further dress-up, which I have planned... but it's not terrible. Better than the nasty as-found condition. At least I had the original instruction and former-life free-play cards to break it up visually. And the woodgrain makes a shooter gauge after all!
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

The look of a wood apron on this game is sweet, very western. Love it man

#165 1 year ago

Another dubug update for future reference and anyone still following along:

- Score reel sticking at "5 and 6": So I'm not sure why those numbers were the stumbling point, because the mechanism is identical from 1 thru 8. But the cause was the return spring. A previous owner had cheated by stretching a few turns over the hook to shorten it for more tension, to overcome a sluggish wheel. I'd cleaned the mech - making it much snappier - but left this alone because the spring was permanently bent, but still "worked" so why replace parts if you don't have to? But my clue that the spring was the issue - too much tension! - was because of the loud buzzing from the coil, like it was working too hard and fighting itself. I replaced the spring and the problem went away! Not only does the reel work properly and not stick, but it's quiet now.

That also seems to have solved the "5000 point score" issues too.

- Random Wet Noodle / Hot left flipper: Ha, this is another doozy. You have to understand this game was ROUGH when found with problems you don't normally see. Remember how that advance coil had a broken winding I couldn't see? Well a bunch of other coils had them too, at the lugs. Several of the flippers did, in fact. On that lower left coil I seem to recall most of them were broken somehow, for reasons I can't even begin to guess. But this is no big deal: just make sure to put the power and hold windings on the proper lugs, right?

Well there's more to it than that. The two windings are in SERIES. So it's possible to get them backwards! Normally you would never encounter a need to redo both of them at that same time. But my clue something was up was when I held the EOS switch open, the coil did not work at all. I was very confused by this until I studied a pic at Clay's guide.

Flipper (resized).jpg

An important part that's not really clear in that drawing, is that in the top half, on the right where the schematic windings are shown, you need to understand that current always wants to flow directly from one winding to the next and has a continuous path to do so. But current is lazy so when the EOS switch is closed, it takes the path of least resistance through the switch instead, thus skipping the second winding. When the flipper is engaged, it opens the EOS and thus forces the the power to flow back through the second winding instead (holding it open, cooly).

Being in series means you can't just put "the red wires here and green wires there". One winding has to flow into the other. So if you put the hold winding backwards, you've essentially bypassed it altogether, by putting the EOS switch directly and permanently between the it and the power/flip winding. It works however briefly when the EOS is closed but once the flip winding forces the EOS open, the hold winding is cut and then the flip winding burns up.

Anyway, it's a great lesson in how flippers truly work (I never realized that BOTH windings hold current at full flip until now; I always thought the EOS "cut" power to one of them!) but it's also a scenario you're extremely unlikely to ever encounter, so it took me a while to understand what was happening. I swapped the hold windings on the coil terminals and the flipper now works as it should!

Hope to get some gameplay vid this weekend...

#166 1 year ago

Clays picture is a great visual aid and adds to the understanding .

Dave

#167 1 year ago

Congrats... Sounds like you're done with it. You brought a machine back from the dead, and you did so on a budget, and it still looks fabulous.
Really like the wood trim on the apron. Its a bit gawdy and tacky in the late 70s and early 80s vibe, and that is a good thing as I loved the atari wood grain consoles, and it totally fits the theme.
Right now I'm carefully looking out for a nice project pin for me and my brother, due to your inspiration.

#168 1 year ago

Finished some more cleanup and tweaks... mostly for the 5000 point switches to ensure they score when lit. The ones on the drops are annoying to tune but I think I've got them all now.

With that, it was worth the effort to make my own coil labels... I have to say they made a big improvement in the underhood look!

20190324_235703 (resized).jpg

I also patched the notch in the top of the head, and started mixing colors to find a match for the "dusty patina" I'm so fond of. I'm pretty close for all of 3 minutes, ha ha.

20190325_213554 (resized).jpg

Finally as promised, gameplay video, from the moment when my daughters, the infamous B's, try El Dorado for the first time.

And boy, this turned out to be a "classic pinball video" moreso than I could have ever predicted: surprise! Confusion! Delight! Frustration! Arrgh-sonuva-just-one-more!

Yep, that's pinball for ya...

#169 1 year ago

Boy, this game is a real trial by fire, I should be an EM expert by the time this is through.

Another bugger of a problem via random score resets while playing. Exactly what it sounds like: reels reset to "zero" randomly, inconsistently, without warning or otherwise disrupting gameplay. Sometimes I could get a decent score, othertimes it would reset before 10K. Rarely ever got beyond 35K.

You'd think the reels would be suspect but I eliminated them as the issue. No stuck or improper switches on any relay or motor bank that I could see. The only thing that electrically triggers a score reset is the "A" relay closing, so what would cause that to happen? I thought maybe the motor was coasting past stop and closing the "2C" switch but, according to the schematic, if that were the case then the ball count would reset too, and that never happened.

Finally my wife observed that it seemed to happen most when (any random) drops were hit... and then we confirmed ALWAYS when both banks were reset (which rarely happens during gameplay, ha). OK, is there some kind of short in the drop mechs (even though I'd seen rollovers cause it too)? Nope. And honestly, schematically that was impossible.

But her observation was a clue, so troubleshooting with the pf up, I could see "A" pull in. And sure enough, if I held a drop target to score "sluggishly" or "continuously" - thus causing the score motor to turn repeatedly - the "A" relay would eventually pull in. The "A reset latch" would then hold "A" closed... BAM, score resets when the motor pulses for unrelated things. Just a completely random fluke of circumstance...?

Finally I realized, just how sensitive is that "A" relay? Turns out: a hair-trigger! The spring was so worn, I probably could have made it pull in by breathing on it. Let alone the "BBZZZT-THUNK" of the drops resetting... Or even the vibrations of the motor pulsing from other things, or the 5K relay(s) firing nearby...!

I replaced the spring on "A" then "demo played" a game up to near 80K with two drop resets - and the reels never cleared themselves once.

Expert, I tells ya...

1 month later
#170 10 months ago

I just discovered this thread. What a great read and I am so happy you chose to restore it. Nice work!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
2,100 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Hauppauge, NY
$ 59.99
Hardware
Chroma Pinball
$ 40.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Arcade Arts
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 239.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 66.99
Lighting - Led
Lee's Parts
$ 15.00
Apparel - Unisex
Silverball Swag
$ 4.49
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 20.00
Various Novelties
GC Pinball
$ 12.99
$ 12.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 40.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Arcade Arts
$ 40.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Arcade Arts
$ 249.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Tilttopper
$ 5,899.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
From: $ 41.00
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 165.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
From: $ 9.99
There are 170 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside