or:
1a. a bowling fan
2a. interested in pinball
3a. able and willing to play it on location

Apparently bowling has a huge following. Pinball used to be found at bowling alleys and this may just be the game to get back in there. If it earns well, it doesn't matter what it costs. So while the idea for this game came from a niche group of pinball enthusiasts, that doesn't mean they are the core target audience, right? If DP gets their marketing to bowling alleys and bowling fans right, they may have a winner and we all get to play them on location

If they gonne need the bowling clubs to get succesfull, then i dont think they will make it.

And i am not sure, about the costs to buy, i think it does mather. Large investment.

All this crowd funding stuff which started 2 years ago with JJP is becoming a bit ridiculous.... Now I'm going to do a single web page with a nice "concept" and ask people to send me $1500 to reserve the pin...

I think at that price point they are going to need to deliver on all fronts. I know that JJP is charging nearly the same amount for WOZ and The Hobbit but both of those games are using themes that are more popular and known. As others have mentioned I can see bowling alleys snapping these up in terms of what type of operators would by the game. Lots of potential here and I hope that Dutch Pinball pulls it off.

Respectfully, I would agree with you but at $8500 cost - don't see too many bowling alleys investing in this. They would need to be at half the price for the ROI.

Yeah while I think they would be a killer bowling alley title.. $8500 is s bit much for on route. Then again, a bowling alley here had MM for quite some time.. Then again, they prob didn't pay a premium for it.

To quote Jersey Jack: "it's not about what the game costs, it about what the game makes."
Don't bowling alleys work with operators? So it would not be their investment, but the operator's. He takes a cut of the earnings and that pays for the game. Seems to me that it worked like that for who knows how long.

Hey Dude. I think Fast Times at Ridgemont High would make a better theme. I'm happy for the Lebowski fans but Lebowski over Spicoli?

I stand corrected. If an operator made that investment and approached a bowling alley - see your point. Now will an operator make that investment at $8500. Yeah, maybe with multiple locations to route.

Grown Ups 2 makes The Big Lebowski look like Schindler's List, in terms of relative movie quality. My wife chose Grown Ups 2 for our date night, and even she regretted it.

Operators in North America won't spend $8500.00 on a pin unless the income results can be proven through earnings reports. Further, they will buy them on credit through Firestone or the distributor and if actual earnings do not meet expectations, the games will be returned and payments will stop. Mylstar's M*A*C*H*3 is a classic example of this. It brought the company down.

Bowling alleys would be a great venue for routing this game, BUT every bowling alley I have been to has children so they would need to have a family mode for sure. I assume they are considering this...

Yes on their FAQ it says there will be family settings, and they add "you will be glad it does"

Not sure how Donny Darko wound up on that list of films that have "hyper violence"?

Perhaps I was remembering that one wrong. I keep merging that movie and kill bill in my memory for some reason. Will remove

Yes...in the FAQ its said they will.

Getting back to topic...$8500 for a new pin? Why not? If it has the quality equal to or better than WOZ..I can see that price. There are some guys who are looking for lower priced pins. Buy a Stern Pro...or maybe a Stern that's code is not finished. Buy an older well established pin. They are out there, and are still decent earners for the investment.

But I have to ask...How much was a TAF or TZ new in 1992? I have no idea...but when you consider inflation, technology advances etc, I really don't think that $8500 for a "very well done pin" is too much to ask. For example...the average price of a new car in 1992 was $16,950...in 2013 it $31,250.

Yeah, all the others that you mention, including Kill Bill, obviously fit the definition of hyper violence. DD doesn't.

Of course, I love all the movies that you mentioned!

I'm not so sure about that. Barb Wire's been getting a lot of luv lately.

With this title it's more than all that...this is a nichey culty dream theme for a ton of us (for some reason lol) ...so - I know *I* can't build my own Lebowski pinball machine...lets say I wanted someone to build me one? ...and not just a retheme, but something original, fully programmed with modern rules & full color LCD animation and graphics. I feel like this is being built for ME. Who else was gonna make a Lebowski pin for me? These guys are doing it. ...so, yeah I dunno...$8500 doesn't seem entirely unreasonable....it's cheaper than a BBB!

+1

My wife was supportive of the order. We have never had a NIB game, but she also added, "what are you going to sell (regarding Pins)? I replied, "the car, the house, whatever I have to do"

This is the dream theme for me. Add to that, if done well it could be an all time great game. DP seems to have a good rep, and now they have the ability to make a statement in the Pinball industry. I want them to do well, and to do well, they need to knock it out of the park with this game.

Dream Theme and a Company wanting to make a statement, I am way in! Don't let us down DP!

It's been discussed in other threads before and someone with more knowledge than me should chime in . But TZ was somewhere in the range of $2,200 .

Use this as an example and a new pin should be around $4,100 . But it is not a good example because there has been way more advancements in cars (curtain airbags , Aluminium frames , High Strength Steel , Traction control systems the list of advances in car technology is large since 1992 .) Pinball hasn't really changed much , different layouts different toys , and an LCD screen from as of now really just one company .

ok...I am with you on that....but there are games out there in the 4k range. Now we have levels of games being sold..and this should be considered a Cadillac game (or at least I am hoping for). I think if DP wanted to make a $4 game they could do it. But I am hoping for them to live true to the statement.. " Dutch Pinball abides with the most epic pin ever" That is a tall order. But rooting for them.

? Weren't these machines between $3 and $4K nib even back then? My a Fish Tales was won from a radio station, and the record of value for tax purposes was nearly $4k if memory serves. I have the record in my files.

I hope so too , Not only for the buyers of this game , But for the guys making it as well . They Really did an amazing job with the Bride of Pinbot . I'm sure one or more of my friends will be buying a Big Lebowski pin and I'm looking forward to playing it .

But they have zero experience designing a play field. I doubt anyone on the team have pinball manufacturing exp. so given a almost complete lack of experience what makes you think this will be a "Cadillac" game? JJP at least had a few experienced pinball people and the game they delivered is just ok as far as gameplay goes.

Like I said someone with more knowledge than me should chime in , But there are people here that were Ops in 92 and are still Ops and have said here that price range for new games in 92 was around $2,200 , Prices weren't in the 3-4k range until recently . I remember when my friend bought his Family Guy new in box when it came out and it was $2,600 .

...and then you've got Josh Kugler - had he ever made a game? His Kugler Family whitewood was probably the best playing custom game at Expo! So - ya never know!

They can't do any worse than the WOZ layout.

Some of the pinballfx layouts are pretty clever. I don't think you need experience designing a playfield to make something nice. Just talent.

I saw the movie about ten years ago, then when I got into pinball I saw how many fans of the movie there were on this site so I decided to watch it again yesterday. I really don't remember what I thought of it the first time I saw it but when I watched it again I thought it was OK at best and was really kind of disappointed after all the hype.

When the ball drains "No shirt, no shoes, NO DICE!"

True statement - never know. But for $8500 I'd like to know someone on the team has done this before. But hey, as you posted earlier - if some of you would have commissioned a BL pin because you are so into the theme - enjoy!

Last I checked people loved TSPP layout. What's different?

Talent and passion can deliver wonderful results. Again, at $8500 like someone with experience on the team to balance the scale of talent, passion and experience. Manufacturing a pin versus coding one are different.

So JPOP won't get it done...or Predator, but this will get mass manufactured in a short time? We'll see this in 4 years if we're lucky. Good luck!

It's slower and has fewer shots. I don't count the wretched bank of standups. I really don't like TSPP either. I bought it new when it first came out cuz I love the Simpsons and then traded it a couple months later cuz I couldn't stand how disappointing the game was for sound/speech and layout (South Park 2.0), IMHO. Simpsons is a funny ass show and almost all of the humor in the game is so meh. But you're right, many peeps do love it and WOZ has it's fans too. I'm just not one of them

Learn it, Know it, Live it.

Hey I never said it would get done on time - but I'm just excited about it.

It's a lot different. I love TSPP. I don't like WoZ's layout.

Things that are fundamentally different to me:

-TSPP has satisfying shots on the main playfield. Drops that reveal a kickout saucer. A nice ramp shot. Plenty of cool shots from the upper flipper. The garage is a 2 part satisfying shot for me - I like hitting it to open, and a fast shot into it feels nice too. WOZ has nothing fun to shoot on the lower playfield. Just standups and some saucers. I get more out of hitting the Bart captive ball than the witch - it's how it feels....physically hitting something...the Witch is a thing in a box activated by hitting a plate at a weird angle.

-TSPP has a fun upper playfield. I like lighting the locks, starting the modes behind the TV, and locking ok the couch ramp. The castle toy on WOZ does nothing for me, and neither does spinning the house.

-OK this isn't layout but Simpsons theme goes way further for me than WOZ. It is what it is.

"Learn it, know it, live it......" and then you would love it No doubt about it Gregory, just put another couple of hours on it, the LCD is great, the better you get at it, you know when you can sneak peaks at it too see what you need and where you are at.....

Yep, it's great

Jpop 2014!

Taking a need more info approach with TBL, could be really cool

I enjoyed the movie and think it would make a GREAT theme.

That being said;

I'd pay $8500 for a nice used car.
I'd pay $8500 for a nice used motorcycle.
I'd pay $8500 for a half decent Home Theater setup.
I'd pay $8500 for a real nice Hawaiian vacation.
I'd gladly pay $8500 for 4 real nice 90's DMD machines.

I wouldn't pay $8500 for a single pinball machine even if it was the greatest pinball machine ever conceived.

I don't know man, maybe it is worth it if it comes with a rug?

I definitely think about that stuff when I'm watching movies on my projector. I was watching Star Trek Into Darkness 3D...and I'm pretty sure my whole set up - screen, projector, receiver, speakers....hell even my couch...was a fraction of my STLE pinball lol ....but, sometimes we do dopey shit as pinball maniacs.

$8500 for a home theatre set up yikes!

I own a 32 lane bowling center. I am a Huge Big Lebowski fan. I can recite the movie from start to finish. Anyways, we have pinballs. The $50 they make a week would never justify $8500 expense. At this price point I'm afraid I'm out even though this would be the best themed pinball ever IMOP.

You would not believe the cost of (relatively) high-end audio. It would be no challenge at all to put together a $500k stereo. (Not like I ever could afford that, but I'd have a lot of fun doing it.) $8.5k is cheap.

Anyone for a $30,000 pair of speaker cables?

http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Oracle-V1-3-Biwire

My husband used to work for a high-end home theater store. I once agreed to a larger TV, and was completely shocked at the amount of extra cables you have to have and how expensive they are. We dont have any near the $30K cables linked above, of course, but he installed some home theaters that cost more than most homes in this area. Luckily we furnished most of our theater with employee discounts, clearance, "unfixable" returns he fixed, and when the company had their out of business sale. I love having a home theater but wouldnt actually go out and spend retail for what we have in it.

is that $50 a week per game?

Some reports have indicated that WoZ pulls in $750-900 a week at busy locations with pricing set on the high side. That's revenue so the split has to be accounted for unless the location owns the machine. These were weeks 1 to 3.

Family guy $45 to $50 per week
Monopoly $30 per week.

Monster drop redemption game $400 average per week.

If a WOZ is bringing in that kind of $$$ it must be a buck a game, being played from open to close, and have a really high replay score. Those numbers are crazy

Would it not matter to your customers the TBL theme ties in far more with bowling than Family Guy and Monopoly and that they are likely to have more affection for the TBL game? Since WoZ seems such a good earner, which I think is partly because of the LCD, wouldn't TBL with an LCD earn as well? If TBL would make an average of $ 200.00 a week (half of some WoZ reports), you'd break even after 43 weeks. Did Family Guy earn itself back in 43 weeks?