$8000 what to buy? AFM, MM or MMR

(Topic ID: 131455)

$8000 what to buy? AFM, MM or MMR


By pinchamp

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 99 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by someoneelse
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“if you had $8000 and had to buy one of these, which one?”

  • MM 40 votes
    21%
  • AFM 63 votes
    33%
  • MMRLE 86 votes
    46%

(189 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 3 years ago

MMRLE is what I am doing. It will be my first NIB (assuming Tron VE isn't around the corner). If I were more patient, I'd wait a year or two and find a nice HUO MMRLE for probably a lot less, but I'm okay with taking the hit in value on this one since I intend to keep it forever, and I've fixed and sold/traded up enough games to cover any losses.

#52 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Does it have that full color display they mentioned they were working on in 2013?

It's color when you first turn it on.

You can pick a color after that

#53 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can pick a color after that

I guess orange is good enough.

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from XXVII:

I intend to keep it forever

I think you will find that same sentiment among the MMRLE owners including myself which could mean a dwindling supply.

Quoted from XXVII:

I'd wait a year or two and find a nice HUO MMRLE

I have heard that from a lot of guys as well which would translate to high demand.

If both scenarios hold true, basic economics would dictate that the price would not go down that much and may possibly go up.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from T7:

I did see a remake recently and did not like the differences in the playfield inserts, and lighting. The inserts were all clear - not frosted like the originals.

It's actually that old DiamondPlate coating that makes them look frosted, because over the years, it turns milky instead of clear.

That's why when you repair a cracked insert in a DP playfield, you have to jump through hoops with rice paper to make the new one look all cloudy like the rest.

When those playfields were new, they did not have that cloudy look.

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I think you will find that same sentiment among the MMRLE owners including myself which could mean a dwindling supply.

I have heard that from a lot of guys as well which would translate to high demand.
If both scenarios hold true, basic economics would dictate that the price would not go down that much and may possibly go up.

Yup, heard similar yammering from folks that just couldn't believe that the used price for acdc premium was rising.... A flood of used machines was predicted..... The result? Supply is even tighter, demand is still strong.

Wishes and hopes will lose to simple economics every time.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Yup, heard similar yammering from folks that just couldn't believe that the used price for acdc premium was rising.... A flood of used machines was predicted..... The result? Supply is even tighter, demand is still strong.
Wishes and hopes will lose to simple economics every time.

And I'm enjoying the machine you sold me (thankyouverymuch!) while other suckers are still looking just so they can save a couple hundred bucks. Penny wise and pound foolish.

#58 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Does it have that full color display they mentioned they were working on in 2013?

It does a full color display. It can be full of green color or orange color or purple or thousands of others, as long as you only want to see one at a time ...

#59 3 years ago

I can do that with my color DMD now too.

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I think you will find that same sentiment among the MMRLE owners including myself which could mean a dwindling supply.

I have heard that from a lot of guys as well which would translate to high demand.
If both scenarios hold true, basic economics would dictate that the price would not go down that much and may possibly go up.

Possibly. What I should have said was that if I was patient I would wait a year or two for a nice HUO MMRLE or MMR. I believe I read that PPS intends to keep pumping out MMR as long as there is demand. With so little differentiating the LE from the standard, and an assumption that more will be produced as long as there is a market for it, I could only see the game's value lowering. Why pay close to $8k even for a nice HUO MMR if you could order one to your door NIB for about the same?

#61 3 years ago

I was talking about $8000US dollars... The price I have committed to MMR. I am lucky enough to still have an out if I want to. I'm don't have to pay balance and my deposit is refundable up until the shipping date. All this waiting has me contemplating the decision... Thus I started this thread. The collector in my wants a nice MM which I am not going to get for $8000. I tried to make an offer on the one posted here but he wouldnt go below $8200 and it was nothing near an MMR in terms of features or condition.

The player in my wants a nice AFM as I do think that I will enjoy that game the most. I like to play and I am not good at doing my own repairs or restoration. However if I spend $8000 on a nice AFM is that value going to drop with a potential AFMR? As much as I am not in pinball as an investment I don't like the idea of losing a thousand or more dollars on a pins value.

The most popular choice here so far (almost 50%) is to stick with the MMRLE which is where I am at right now. I agree that once out of box value is going to drop $1000 if I want to get rid of it. I can't imagine anyone paying more than $7000 if they can get NIB for $8000 for the rest of time. Since I don't find the game very challenging I am worried that after awhile it might not get played in my collection. I need a game to challenge me or I do lose interest...

The AFM speaks to the collector in me (as it is an original) as well as the player in me (love the theme, love the speed/flow, love the challenge (I think but have not played enought to know 100%). For $8000 I believe I can wait and find a pretty nice one. The only risk here would be value loss if AFMR comes out. But MMRLE I am going to lose value for sure anyways.

I am really thinking AFM if I can find a nice / restored one in my price range before I have to pay up for MMRLE. If not I will probably stick to MMRLE. I appreciate the comments. The idea of buying 3 different machines is an interesting one too...

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

I was talking about $8000US dollars... The price I have committed to MMR. I am lucky enough to still have an out if I want to. I'm don't have to pay balance and my deposit is refundable up until the shipping date. All this waiting has me contemplating the decision... Thus I started this thread. The collector in my wants a nice MM which I am not going to get for $8000. I tried to make an offer on the one posted here but he wouldnt go below $8200 and it was nothing near an MMR in terms of features or condition.
The player in my wants a nice AFM as I do think that I will enjoy that game the most. I like to play and I am not good at doing my own repairs or restoration. However if I spend $8000 on a nice AFM is that value going to drop with a potential AFMR? As much as I am not in pinball as an investment I don't like the idea of losing a thousand or more dollars on a pins value.
The most popular choice here so far (almost 50%) is to stick with the MMRLE which is where I am at right now. I agree that once out of box value is going to drop $1000 if I want to get rid of it. I can't imagine anyone paying more than $7000 if they can get NIB for $8000 for the rest of time. Since I don't find the game very challenging I am worried that after awhile it might not get played in my collection. I need a game to challenge me or I do lose interest...
The AFM speaks to the collector in me (as it is an original) as well as the player in me (love the theme, love the speed/flow, love the challenge (I think but have not played enought to know 100%). For $8000 I believe I can wait and find a pretty nice one. The only risk here would be value loss if AFMR comes out. But MMRLE I am going to lose value for sure anyways.
I am really thinking AFM if I can find a nice / restored one in my price range before I have to pay up for MMRLE. If not I will probably stick to MMRLE. I appreciate the comments. The idea of buying 3 different machines is an interesting one too...

Not very challenging? So, you are doing Battle for the Kingdom almost every game? If so, widen those outlanes! Game difficulty complaints are seldom valid.

#63 3 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Not very challenging? So, you are doing Battle for the Kingdom almost every game? If so, widen those outlanes! Game difficulty complaints are seldom valid.

Too right. I have Ruled the Universe plenty but never got anywhere near Battle for the Kingdom let alone beaten it.

#64 3 years ago

I think AFMR if done will be sold at the same price point as MMR. If that happens the price of used ones won't devalue all that much short or long term. With those choices it would be very close but I'd go with AFM. My motto is to buy what I want now and not wait for what might be. Been much happier with the collection since implementing that motto. All great choices you can't go wrong with any of em.

#65 3 years ago

Hopefully by then they will have quality martians and targets.

#66 3 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I think AFMR if done will be sold at the same price point as MMR.

There can't be enough idiots out there that would actually pay $8000 plus shipping for an AFMr when super nice originals and restored ones are in that same ballpark… actually from what I've seen here the past couple years… there probably are.

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

However if I spend $8000 on a nice AFM is that value going to drop with a potential AFMR? As much as I am not in pinball as an investment I don't like the idea of losing a thousand or more dollars on a pins value.

Then do not spend 8,000 on any pinball machine. These are toys, if you are so concerned about the value dropping, I strongly suggest not spending that kind of money in the first place.

#69 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

Actually the only issue I have is that occasionally Teekee pops out of the middle of the playfield but all I do is hit his head 3 times and he goes away.

I know it's not Politically (Pinsidically) correct ... but I could not help giving that post a thumb up. Made me laugh. Hope you did not take it personally Teekee, but I know you are not PC either!

Back to topic:
If I had $8000 to burn now, I would buy a pin available now. Exit TBL, Hobbit, AFMr. In the Hobbit and TBL case you are past the "early bird" price or incentive, so I see very little reason to order one now. Wait until the game ships.

That would leave us with AFM, MM (player's quality) and MMR. Among the 3, I would probably choose MMr.

But:
- Have you considered WoZ? If not, give it a try. The game is great and most issues are now fixed.
- None of the Stern LE are worth $8k in my mind. On the other hand, with ≈ $9k you could buy two Pro versions. ST + Mustang would be my first choice.
- Another idea is the 3 pins proposal. Guess you could find Dr Who + BSD + a third pin like Road Show or Stargate for around $8k?

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I know it's not Politically (Pinsidically) correct ... but I could not help giving that post a thumb up. Made me laugh. Hope you did not take it personally Teekee, but I know you are not PC either!

Made me laugh as well.

PC sucks! Very difficult to offend me. Being offended is a choice... a choice that many people make for themselves these days and its becoming the death of America today!

Quoted from jlm33:

- Have you considered WoZ? If not, give it a try. The game is great and most issues are now fixed.

Now that's offensive!!

#71 3 years ago

Yeah I had a WOZLE and wanted to enjoy it since it was so nice looking in my collection. However I just could not. Had to sell it and have never looked back. I found it to be a super borefest and the music made me want to stab my eyes out with a spoon. Perhaps I did not understand the rule set of MM and thus the reason I felt I accomplished more than I did... Is there a wizard mode? Hard to get to?

#72 3 years ago

Personally I'd buy either AFM or MM. There's been some problems although perhaps fixed with some MMR's and flippers causing damage. Also remain to be seen if down the line if the repro games will hod their value or not. As to choosing between AFM and MM, love them both and can't really even choose their so close for me in being terrific. Both have humor and fun and are incredibly well done.

#73 3 years ago

The minute they release an AFMR, anyone looking to sell a nice original for a fair price, shoot me a PM. 8K for a remake of that, no way for me.

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

Yeah I had a WOZLE and wanted to enjoy it since it was so nice looking in my collection. However I just could not. Had to sell it and have never looked back. I found it to be a super borefest and the music made me want to stab my eyes out with a spoon. Perhaps I did not understand the rule set of MM and thus the reason I felt I accomplished more than I did... Is there a wizard mode? Hard to get to?

very hard. You have to destroy 6 castles, become the master of trolls (I believe it is a bunch of troll jackpots during troll madness), Save like 4-5 damsels, win like 4-5 jousts, complete the pensant ramps like 4-5 times, and complete the catapult like 4-5 times. Not sure if you have to do castle MB and Royal madness as well, but those may be requirements too. I have only seen this once in person and it wasn't completed. Not sure what it takes to complete.

#75 3 years ago

AFM has the slight edge for me. I played both on location yesterday for quite a while. I like the gameplay of AFM a bit more. The callouts and art are a bit better on MM, but I'm a gameplay first kind of guy.

#76 3 years ago

I would pick up The Shadow, the most superior Brian Eddy game, and then maybe a used ST pro. That way, you've got two games with good flow, one with a cool gimmick (shadow ramps) and one with a bash toy. Both have great 3rd flipper shots as well!

#77 3 years ago

That's what I wonder about MM... So there are 5 or 6 things to do but you have to do those things like 4-5 times each to accomplish everything? A bit repetitive? However it seems everyone loves MM gameplay.

Maybe I just need more time on it? Al - I think I gotta come spend a few more hours at your house

I really love STLE... Seems the pro has the same gameplay so that plus Shadow is intriguing too. However I really want a game that can last and stay in my collection... Forever would be nice.

#78 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

That's what I wonder about MM... So there are 5 or 6 things to do but you have to do those things like 4-5 times each to accomplish everything? A bit repetitive? However it seems everyone loves MM gameplay.
Maybe I just need more time on it? Al - I think I gotta come spend a few more hours at your house
I really love STLE... Seems the pro has the same gameplay so that plus Shadow is intriguing too. However I really want a game that can last and stay in my collection... Forever would be nice.

Not to mention there is barnyard multiball.

At least 9 tasks to perfom in the game, with the 10th being battle for the kingdom.

I have a lot less time on AFM but from what I can tell the rules are super similar to MM. Not sure there is any less repetition there for its wizard mode.

#79 3 years ago

Several months ago I was in the same situation you were. I think a lot of this choice depends on what price/condition of each is available in your area. Initially I wasn't happy with the quality/price ratio of any of the MM or AFM that were available to me. I eventually preordered a MMR but would have been happy to buy a MM if I could have found one in great condition for $9K or less. For me the only downside of the MMR relative to a MM is the waiting an uncertain delivery time. Then just recently while still waiting on the MMR I bought an AFM after I found the right deal, but it took me a while to find the right combination of price and condition.

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

That's what I wonder about MM... So there are 5 or 6 things to do but you have to do those things like 4-5 times each to accomplish everything? A bit repetitive? However it seems everyone loves MM gameplay.
Maybe I just need more time on it? Al - I think I gotta come spend a few more hours at your house
I really love STLE... Seems the pro has the same gameplay so that plus Shadow is intriguing too. However I really want a game that can last and stay in my collection... Forever would be nice.

Every game gets repetitive eventually. Some people dislike MM, but most really enjoy it. It's not crazy deep or mode-based, but it has a good balance of stuff to do and is just fun to play. Battle for the Kingdom is the wizard mode and is not easy to reach, much less beat. I'd say personally for me, reaching Final Battle on The Shadow is an easier task than reaching BFTK. Guests love MM too because they can easily/quickly be rewarded by bashing the castle. There certainly is a lot "more" to do on ST, but it's not nearly as fun doing it. YMMV.

#81 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Pretty normal for something you use to lose value once you use it.
Other than a few titles like TronLE, there are not many pins that go up in value once you opened them.
If a used MM is $5,500, you will not be able to restore it to the level of the MMr for $2,500, that's for sure.
New decals for cab $300
New clear ramps $400
Clear coat the playfield $500
or Replace playfield $900
Color DMD $400
Flipper rebuild $25
LEDs $200
Moat $50 (always cracked)
New plastics $150
New dragon wings $20 (always broken and glued)
A million other worn or broken parts as you restore $1000
Stereo sound N/A
80 hours of your time @ even $25/hr is $2000
--------------------
Don't kid yourself how much work it would be to take a used MM and turn it into a game anywhere near as nice as a MMr....

I had close to $4k (above the core purchase price) in a full MM DIY restoration with all of the above plus a number of mods, and that was excluding my time which was over 240hours.

#82 3 years ago

Searchtempest finds you a no wait MMr for sale:

detroit.craigslist.org link

#83 3 years ago

He is asking over $2000 more than what it cost NIB? Is that a joke? And saying you better bring a deposit if you want to try it out... NASTY!

I don't really care about waiting. I have waited over a year already and it's not like I don't have other machines to play. I would not pay more than $8000 for an MM unless it was restored and very very nice.

#85 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

He is asking over $2000 more than what it cost NIB? Is that a joke?

His email says he sold two others at the same price.

For those who do not want to wait, I guess.

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

For those who do not want to wait, I guess.

If you don't want to wait its simple… buy an original. That's where the smart money is going. The rest will be wasted.

Quoted from vid1900:

His email says he sold two others at the same price.

good to know that vid will believe anything…

#87 3 years ago

I love Medieval, but if if you are willing to spend $8k, get the nicest AFM you can find. Despite MMR, it seems that MM prices are still high relative to similar condition AFMs. From a gameplay standpoint, both are similar, though AFM is somewhat faster.

I was a big supporter of MMR early on. I love the idea that they are here, but question whether CGC really has the drive/desire to be in the home collector pinball market long term and whether the problems with MMR are just expected new-project, new-game glitches or indications of poor planning and mismanagement. Jury is still out on the electronics long-term.

MMRs will be available for quite some time. If that's your decision, wait and buy a late(r) production model NIB (unless the NIB experience and/or warranty aren't worth it to you - then wait for the inevitable HUO sales and save at least $1k). I would say the same for AFMR (tail end of production late 2016/early 2017 if it is the next remake?).

#88 3 years ago

Neither MM, AFM, nor MB are worth 8K IMO. Maybe 5 years ago, but will all the new games out the past few years and those on the way - there is much more fun to be had out there for a much cheaper price.

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

If you don't want to wait its simple… buy an original. That's where the smart money is going. The rest will be wasted.

So wait.

You are of the opinion that someone should only buy an original MM and restore it?

I just want to make sure I understand your position in these matters.

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

good to know that vid will believe anything

I don't call anyone a liar unless I have reason to.

If someone shows me a pic of 3 MMr, and it does not look Photoshopped, what reason would I have to doubt him?

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

So wait.
You are of the opinion that someone should only buy an original MM and restore it?
I just want to make sure I understand your position in these matters.

Why not? But you wouldn't have to restore it. Plenty of nice originals out there. Restore if you want perfect or enjoy it the way it is. Why wait another 6 months just to lose big bucks opening the box.

Quoted from vid1900:

what reason would I have to doubt him?

Because no one is paying over market for MMr's… just a myth that MMr owners would love to believe.

#92 3 years ago

I always liked AFM more than MM, personally. More speed and a better theme for me. I've had mine for about 7 years and still love it. And while I'm not sure how a remake of AFM for $8k would be successful, it wouldn't phase me if it did happen because I doubt I'll be parting with my original for as long as I'm still in this hobby.

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Because no one is paying over market for MMr's… just a myth that MMr owners would love to believe.

If they are, I sincerely hope the folks making that call are not the people that are doing the car buying negotiations in their family.

"I got $50 off of the sticker price. Woo Hoo!"

"Extended warranty? How could I go wrong on that??"

#94 3 years ago

Hey Darren,
Come over and try my Afm and MM.
Right now I give the edge to Afm as well.
We might need a replacement for the upcoming tournament,you can join in

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

However if I spend $8000 on a nice AFM is that value going to drop with a potential AFMR? As much as I am not in pinball as an investment I don't like the idea of losing a thousand or more dollars on a pins value.

Prior to the MMr announcement, AFMs in good condition were closer to $10k machines. So you could argue that the assumption that there will be an AFMr has already discounted the price.

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from pingod:

Hey Darren,
Come over and try my Afm and MM.
Right now I give the edge to Afm as well.
We might need a replacement for the upcoming tournament,you can join in

What tournament? Where and when? You know I am in if you will have me. But you realize I have NEVER lost a tournament that I entered? Haha. That's the truth too. Maybe you would like to sell you AFM since you have MM anyways? I've got a real nice Baywatch and Frankenstein I would put up on the block....

I am seriously on the hunt for AFM. I just hope I find one before the balance is due on my MMR.

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

Neither MM, AFM, nor MB are worth 8K IMO. Maybe 5 years ago, but will all the new games out the past few years and those on the way - there is much more fun to be had out there for a much cheaper price.

c'mon really? Weren't new games always on the way? For 20 years? How can these games (including MB) not be worth $8000 especially in CQ condition? I see your point but as long as someone (me and others) are willing to pay $8000 then surely that is what they are worth, no?

#98 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

c'mon really? Weren't new games always on the way? For 20 years? How can these games (including MB) not be worth $8000 especially in CQ condition? I see your point but as long as someone (me and others) are willing to pay $8000 then surely that is what they are worth, no?

It's not that the games are not worth the 8K value wise - but in playing wise. They all get old IMO - much more value orientated games out there to grab.

#99 3 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

Neither MM, AFM, nor MB are worth 8K IMO. Maybe 5 years ago, but will all the new games out the past few years and those on the way - there is much more fun to be had out there for a much cheaper price.

Great games have been released in the past five years, fully agree on that. But which of those is a light hearted game "based" mainly on humor. I'm a sucker for campy humor, also got a LotR, Shadow, TZ...but I always, each and every time I'm in the gameroom, play a game of MB before i leave. MB was my first pin many years ago. It's always a relaxing and fun experience, it shoots great, you can always achieve at least something even on a bad day, it has great toys and the callouts make me smile over and over again (same with the callouts in AFM).

If I didn't already have a MB but wanted to buy an accessible, humor based, great for guests of all ages, colorful & fun, fast shooting game that pulls off a great show - which one if the last 5 years should i choose?

Actually, after thinking about it analytically, with every new machine coming out that has complicated rulesets and "serious" themes the likeliness that there will be more humor-based light hearted games in the future decreases...making MM, AFM & MB even more unique and valuable gameplay wise and in $.
Why do you think MMR, being the 20 year old machine it is, is selling well even at 8K?

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