(Topic ID: 199049)

74 Gottlieb Sky Jump 10s reel problems...

By fotoboy

6 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by fotoboy
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

So, I have another new post here... thanks in advance.
I have been working over my Sky Jump, and am inching my way to getting her running again...
Problem here is, I cannot get the 10s reel to reset. I can activate it manually with the relay, so it is functional, the zero works as well.
But during the reset, I get nothing.
I have checked contacts on the reel.
I have cleaned the reel (all of them)
I have cleaned/ adjusted the reset stop relay (A?)
I have checked voltage of the coil during a reset and get nothing.
I have been looking at the schematics and they make my head spin... making only a little bit of sense.
Any ideas ya'll???

#2 6 years ago

This is the entire circuit. Try using an alligator clip jumper to bridge across either the contacts on A or the Run out switch on the score reel itself. All other paths share wires that are used by other functions and are therefore good unless you have multiple issues.

sj 10s (resized).PNGsj 10s (resized).PNG

#3 6 years ago

There's a switch on the reset relay for each reel. If all the other reels reset, and this reel will work via the 10 point relay, the problem pretty much has to be the switch on the reset relay.

If you reset all the reels to zero, does the score motor stop and the game play? Does the reel score points from playfield targets. Is everthing else on the game resetting (drop targets, ball count unit)?

#4 6 years ago

EMsInKC

Quoted from EMsInKC:

If you reset all the reels to zero, does the score motor stop and the game play? Does the reel score points from playfield targets. Is everthing else on the game resetting (drop targets, ball count unit)?

yes, score motor stops, but game does not play. so, no score from pf targets.
drop targets reset, no ball in play indicator

is the 'reset relay' the same thing as the 'reset completed relay' (relay A) or should I look elsewhere? (might it be called the 'start relay'
thx

#5 6 years ago

CactusJack checked the run out with MM (no aligators at the moment) that switch closed fine.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from fotoboy:

cactusjack checked the run out with MM (no aligators at the moment) that switch closed fine.

Sorry but you can't really trust a reading from a DVM when it comes to passing current through a set of contact points. You can, however, short across the two blades with a small flat head screw driver. FYI, you can also use your DVM as a jumper if you have a 10AMP Amperage setting. This normally requires you moving the red lead to a different hole and changing the dial position. But Caution! You risk blowing the internal fuse (usually 10 amps) inside the meter if you hit something that draws more than 10 amps. Those fuses can be very costly (and hard to find) if you are using something like a Fluke. Cheap meters may not even have a fuse inside, just something that will fuse open if feed too much amperage.

You have to assume that either one of those two sets of points shown above (Run out and A relay) are not making good contact, or you have a bad wire connection somewhere in between (or poor solder joint - that is why others might have stated elsewhere to tug on each wire connection in question). This is why an alligator clip jumper is about the best troubleshooting tool when working on an EM. It allows you to completely bypass an item or items in question. Normally, we would go from the connection shown to the right of the coil all the way over to the line to the right of the Motor 1A switch. But we don't need to go that extreme. We know the coil moves when you hit the 10 point relay (that's the other branch shown above the A contact). We know the other score reels reset (That proves the function of the Motor 1A switch which generates 5 pulses per motor cycle to all score reels.). So, we are left with the three interconnecting wires and two contacts in between those two extremes.

As to not scoring: Keep in mind, the entire playfield will be dead UNTIL the ball count unit gets off of its zero position. It is reset to zero as part of the reset sequence. But it is advanced to Ball 1 when a ball is kicked from the outhole and runs over the runway switch located in the track under the score card holder (just before it goes to the ball shooter). Normally, you can poke your finger in from the right and push the wireform down to advance balls. Once it goes to anything higher than 0, there is a set of points on the Ball count unit which applies power to the coils on the playfield and allows things to score points.

So, not to beat a dead horse but: If you set all the score reels on zero, and then manually push in the S (Start) relay, what does the game do with a ball sitting in the outhole?

#7 6 years ago

A and AR are both the Reset Complete relay (usually an AX style trip latch relay - everyone's biggest gripe on a Gottlieb second only to the AS relay (Match unit etc.).

There is a coil to reset it, and a coil to trip it (latch release). The A relay is tripped upon start of a game and then reset once all the score reels are zeroed and the score motor closes switch 2B. This is happening if your game goes silent once the score reels are all sitting on zero. But it is the blade switches on the A relay which are used to allow the pulses from Motor 1A to get to the score reels if their Run out switch is not sitting on Zero (meaning it is normally closed at 1-9).

sj rst (resized).PNGsj rst (resized).PNG

#8 6 years ago

Wow. that was a bunch of info! Thanks. Off to the shop I go.

#9 6 years ago

Well, [sigh] it looks like I have more work ahead of me than I had hoped. First, the Ball in play relay was not operational, (needs a CLA) I moved it to ball 1 manually and I did get some scoring on the 10s. I also got scoring on the 1,000's in places that should have only scored tens or maybe 100s.

Also got bumpers sticking.
at least it's alive.
but...one problem at a time.

so just to clarify, when I am shorting across the blades of the score reel, what status should the machine be in (trying to reset or idle?), and what about the score reel (9 or 0 or other)?

Thx

#10 6 years ago

Does this look right? Is the little "s" or 5 curve stick thing go where it is or somewhere else. s thing (resized).JPGs thing (resized).JPG

#11 6 years ago

You can always drive it to KC and I'll fix it for you...

#12 6 years ago

I kind of think of this like a puzzle, a challenge if you will, with the reward being able to play! But... KC is not too far for me if I get in much more over my head!! Thx

#13 6 years ago

Yes, that looks right.

It should be trying to reset. That way, the score motor would be running and the switches on the A relay would be closed.

So the Wireform actuator you pictured should sit centered at 1 through 8. It should push way over to the left at 9 (closing that single switch), and then push slightly off center to the right at 0.

#14 6 years ago

Well, that's what it does.
What next/

#15 6 years ago

Identify the correct switch by the wire colors and jumper across either the run out switch on the score reel or the switch on the A relay or both. The reel should pulse as long as the score motor is turning.

#16 6 years ago

What drives the 9s rollover switch in the above figure?

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

This is the entire circuit. Try using an alligator clip jumper to bridge across either the contacts on A or the Run out switch on the score reel itself. All other paths share wires that are used by other functions and are therefore good unless you have multiple issues.

This is makes sense.

#18 6 years ago

Well...
so I jumped (alligatored) the run out switch on the 10s reel, on the back of the switch where the solder is, and she reset perfectly. I removed the alligators and Shazaam! its working. Do pinball machines heal themselves? I'm going to inspect those joints.
Thanks for all the help so far.

#19 6 years ago

Actually, EMs have a certain "need". And that is to be played. Dirty switches can often clean themselves with repeated activations.

Switches that get cleaned, can still be fouled. One cause of this is the use of flex stones. They can leave little stones behind preventing the points from touching. I only use metal ignition or needle files as I learned this lesson myself long ago.

Of course, I would instead still question the quality of the solder joints at that switch (which were probably moved when you put the jumper on). In Extreme cases, we have seen the solder stick to the wire and the nickel plating but find the plating has debonded from the actual metal blade.

#20 6 years ago

thanks again

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