(Topic ID: 168070)

73 Bally Hi Lo Ace Start up

By Anothertoy

7 years ago


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SU06 Ball Count Unit zero switch (resized).jpg
CR20 CR21 game  interlock relay (resized).jpg
#1 7 years ago

All Playfield lights work. All coils fire, all points add up when game manually started by moving reset relay. Problem is... I can't get the game to start using the start button on coin door. Also, the out hole is dead. I've don't have schematics. I got the game out of a warehouse and it's been there for about 10 years. I can't find any broken wires using a meter. Any ideas where to start? Supposedly the game was working fine prior to being put away.

Cheers

#2 7 years ago

Too bad the schematic isn't on IPDB. But since it is a similar era Bally, it should have the same wiring setup through the coin switches for the score motor as the Bon Voyage. So it wouldn't hurt to check that carefully since I had the same problem and that's what it was, and I wasn't the first.

Make sure the yellow wires going to the coin switches that are at the bottom of the coin mechs are all solidly connected. If you don't have a good connection all the way through with those yellow wires then you lose one leg of the voltage for the score motor and it won't start up.

This link will take you to more details about what I found.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-em-bon-voyage-wont-start#post-2541170

You should be able to get a schematic from Pinball Resource, that is sure to come in handy sooner or later.

#4 7 years ago

I just got the Schematics from PBR. Thanks xsvtoys. I hope I can find the problem tomorrow.

2 weeks later
#5 7 years ago

Thanks for the help on this. Almost got the game working to 100%. Last problem is. When I start a game, I only get 1 ball registering. I checked the ball count coils, they are fine. The game seems to reset the ball counter to 1 ball instead of adding 5 balls at start up. Any ideas where I should look.

#6 7 years ago

Forgot to mention. I can manually step up the ball counter to 9 balls and it will decrease normally with each ball drain. It just doesn't add balls to the counter.

#7 7 years ago

I don't have the schematic, but it does sound like this must be AAB (Add a Ball) so in that sense it probably is very similar to the Bon Voyage. The BV also can go up to 9 balls. I have spent a lot of time analyzing the BV (for entertainment) so maybe I might help.

What happens on start-up is a 2-part process which involves the score motor and various switches. (This all happens in parallel with the scores resetting to zero and also other start up things such as advancing the play meter and such).

For the first part, the ball counter is sent from wherever it happens to be sitting down to the zero position, or ball #1. This usually will happen in the first rotation of the score motor, but it will take 2 score motor rotations if for some odd reason the ball count should be at 6 or higher when it starts. But if the ball count happens to be at 1 when you start, then it doesn't need any score motor rotation at all since it is already in the zero position.

It sounds like that part is working OK. You can test it. Manually set it so it has 3 balls, or 4 balls, or whatever, then start it up. It should count down to 1 ball right away.

The second part then adds the balls back on, maybe to 3 balls or 5 balls depending on the machine or the settings. If it counts down to 1 ball OK and stays there and never counts back up, then there is something wrong in this area. On the BV, this circuit is somewhat convoluted but I figured out how it works by carefully observing it. First, it is controlled by a relay called the Game Relay or also sometimes the Game Interlock Relay (which is different than the Game Over Relay), which is actually one of those interlock latch/trip type relays. You should check to see if you have the same. Here is what it looks like.

CR20 CR21 game  interlock relay (resized).jpgCR20 CR21 game interlock relay (resized).jpg

If you have the playfield lifted you can watch it. It should be in one position as the ball count goes down to 1, then it should jump to the other position and that makes the circuit that will add the balls back up. So that is the first thing to check. If it never changes position then you won't get any balls added. That is triggered by the Ball Count Unit Zero switch. And that makes sense. That is what I suspect first. This switch is on the ball count unit, and it is a MBB switch, so it should be in one position for any ball count other than 1, and when it gets to 1 it should change position. It is moved by a peg that is on the toothed wheel. Check that switch to make sure everything is proper. You can even test it manually to make sure its working.

SU06 Ball Count Unit zero switch (resized).jpgSU06 Ball Count Unit zero switch (resized).jpg

#8 7 years ago

After thinking about it some more, I will guess that the zero switch actually is working OK and that the Game Relay is switching positions when the ball count gets to 1. Otherwise, the score motor would keep running and running because that Game Relay is also used to cut off the Coin Relay which is what is running the score motor.

So if the Game Relay does switch positions, then the next thing is to check all of the switches on that Game Relay and make sure they are all clean and adjusted properly. One is a MBB switch that will activate the Ball Count Stepup Solenoid. That is the one labeled CR20-1 below.

ball count step up (resized).jpgball count step up (resized).jpg

#9 7 years ago

Fixed.....I cleaned those switches till they sparkled and now I have a complete game.

Thanks xsvtoys!

#10 7 years ago

WaynesWorld_Excellent (resized).jpgWaynesWorld_Excellent (resized).jpg

#11 7 years ago

Hope to obtain a Hi Lo Ace one day. Hard to find.

#12 7 years ago

Hello, I've a Hi Lo Aces and I haven't been able to identify the alternating relay the manual refers to. My game won't alternate the outside bonus lanes left to right. I wonder if one of you could post a picture of the relay or the section of the schematic that identifies this feature.

Thankyou

1 month later
#13 7 years ago

Here is a picture of the Hi Lo Aces Game Adjustment Label

20160516_164143 (resized).jpg20160516_164143 (resized).jpg

#14 7 years ago

Hi willbeEM
I am not sure - in post-12 You asked about "Alternating Relay" - in post-13 You show some adjustment cards. Question: Do You still have the problem (post-12) ?
My personal believe is "Starting a new topic is much more attractive to fellow-pinsiders than writing in an old one, title of topic and stuff in the topic should match".

ipdb http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1187 has no schematics --- but has a manual - see on page-6: ... All above alternating is thru the alternating relay which operates thru the 00-90 unit disc.

I show a snippet from ipdb - You should have a stepper - maybe called "No. Match Unit" or "00-90 Unit" - here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1187&picno=9216 on top to the right I see lightet "Game Over" - on top to the left I believe to see a lighted Number (80 or 00 or 90 ?) - the "Number Match at the end of a game" Does this feature works on Your pin ? (At end of a game: a different number shows up). Greetings Rolf

aFore-Alternator-Relay (resized).jpgaFore-Alternator-Relay (resized).jpg

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