Been running into the same issue. I can get it to reward 3, 4, 5 and even 6 credits by following the game adjustment, but minimum is always 2. Can't seem to find the configuration that will only allow one play for one coin. The manual says it is possible, but doesn't really get into detail on how you get there. When these games were released, I suspect it was baked in that only certified techs would most likely be the only people ever getting under the hood, and some of the older manuals are written in that manner.

On the 1 credit per coin topic....

This cut wire at the coin door, it's Yellow-Black
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Inside the cabinet, on the door plug connector is the Yellow-Black wire, so not connected. To the right of the door connector the Yellow-Brown wire is just hanging there. Based on it's position, it looks like a male Jones plug connector belongs there.
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From the factory, were coin units numbered from L-R, or R-L?

FWIW, I had a playfield protector on the game. I took it off yesterday, and it just feels like the ball is moving better. I also have one on my Fireball II, and the ball movement on that game doesn't seem to be impacted, or at least, it's not very noticeable. Probably because it's a much faster game than it's predecessor.

My Fireball is playing very well right now. It's amazing how much cleaning improves the functionality of these older EM games. The playfield has some sore spots on it, specifically the Odin lane. I'm leaning towards a waterslide decal (thanks Vid) but can't seem to find a good shot of that area of the playfield from the proper perspective.

Does anybody have, or know of somebody who has, a scan of the Fireball playfield? I'm willing to pay for good scans.

Sweet

This game is psychotic

Decided to clean the ball count unit today. It wasn't the first time I had cleaned it, but it needed a follow-up. So, do all that. It goes well. No dropped screws. Nothing falling out of my hand and hitting something sensitive in the cabinet.

Fire it up.... play a game, all is well. Until the game ends. Kicks a ball out to play.

Scratches head with a WTF look on the face.

Played another game, now it can't remember how many balls it has. Hate when that happens....

Coined up another game (credit reel read zero).... and it instantly kicks up a two player game and resets the score, and does not add credits to the reel.

Now, the real gnarly WTF looks are taking root.

Pull up the playfield, glare intently at the ball count unit. Nothing changes. Pressed the credit button and notice that the lights in the game are dimming a bit. That never happened.

Walk around a bit thinking really hard, pull the playfield up again and glare menacingly into the innards.

Nothing changes.

Finally, taking another look at the credit button on the door (my suspicions that this is a door problem are now in full bloom) and notice the little piece of fish paper that lies between the outer contact and the metal stop is just slightly off. Stressed it back to where it belongs and all is well

I must have ever so slightly brushed it while I was testing it after cleaning the stepper. Coin doors can really suck sometimes LOL

Can you post some pictures? Probably will come down to how bad somebody really wants one, and what they're willing to do to improve it once the sale is concluded.

I'd say $1000, maybe as high as $2000 depending upon the amount of work it needs. Of course, if somebody just wants to have it, and it plays, that may factor in as well.

That's just a wild ass guess, based on what I paid for mine, which played but needed some TLC.

Playfield looks better than mine, cabinet as well. Asking 2K is not unreasonable, in my opinion.

Was looking in the Bally parts manual and didn't see screws listed. Might have missed. Small screws, either Phillips head or the socket head type should work. Haven't measured any of mine, but a wild ass guess leads me to suggest 3/8 of an inch long, which should be plenty, widths would vary, based on the diameter of the holes on the mounting plates.

A guide to use

Basic diameters and threads of Standard SAE numeric system small machine screws are shown below.

The diameters of machine screws are indicated with the number of threads per inch count.

Here is a list of common sizes in inches:

2-56: 0.0860" or 43/500" in diameter; 56 threads per inch
4-40: 0.1120" or 14/125" in diameter; 40 threads per inch
5-40: 0.1250" or 1/8" in diameter; 40 threads per inch
6-32: 0.1380" or 69/500" in diameter; 32 threads per inch
8-32: 0.1640" or 41/250" in diameter; 32 threads per inch
10-32: 0.1900" or 19/100" in diameter; 32 threads per inch
10-24: 0.1900" or 19/100" in diameter; 24 threads per inch
12-24: 0.2160" or 27/125" in diameter; 24 threads per inch

Some shots that document the work I've done to this point. A lot of cleaning, and some painting, specifically the backbox cover and the lockdown bar. Mostly cleaning, though. The new legs are the chrome variety, but I wanted to paint them red.

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The wooden 'shrouds' around the backbox lights, at the bottom only, have been removed and replaced with some I made myself. I have noticed an issue getting the glass out to get to the bulbs, and hiding in plain sight was wood wear right in the middle that was used as a wedge. The ball indicator area was too thick and the glass frame got caught on it. Cut those out (cheap particle board :O ) and made my own. They went on yesterday. Putting any kind of force on that glass made me nervous.

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Thanks. Your zippers look as bad as mine looked. Take it off the playfield, it's really not that hard or complicated, and swab it with 91% rubbing alcohol. Be generous, and if you can, put new nyliners in it, because it looks like there is old grease in the same places on yours as I had on mine. It needs four. I cleaned some of the metal parts in my ultrasonic tumbler, using a mix of One Shot cartridge brass cleaner with distilled water (20-1 ratio). I ran them through three cycles of eight minutes, rinsed them off with tap water, dried them and then polished with steel wool and 1200 grit sand paper, followed by a thorough wipe down with 91% again, to ensure no grit was left on the metal.

On your painting, did you happen to touch up any of the red on the playfield demon? I'm having a hard time getting a good match and am hoping maybe you would have some advice.

As far as the relay board is concerned, for my part, I have cleaned the game over plate, the power switch plate and the base plate on the ball count unit. I sanded them with 200 grit sandpaper and then wiped them down with 91%. I say that because I just loosened the screws in the ball count unit and cleaned it in place. It wasn't too bad, so I decided to not do a complete removal as that would have involved a lot of desoldering. Ultrasonic bath for the parts I could completely remove. The game over relay got a little out of gap, and until I got it fixed, it would play a game while the Game Over indicator was lit on the backbox.

The actuator is clean, but it didn't go back together the way it came apart LOLOL. I added a stronger match coil. Now, all I need is a metal tipped plunger, and maybe figure out a way to weld a piece of metal in the opening so I get metal on metal when I hit a match.

I like loud big knockers

Yeah, it's getting frustrating trying to match that red. I'm not painting the whole thing, I am just not that adept at painting. The demon just needs spot touch-up, except for the area to the immediate right of the top right bumper, where it's worn down to the wood.

I ditched my protector. I didn't like the dirt that accumulated, but that could be specific to me, and I have cleaned the machine up quite a bit since. What really bothered me was the way it would shift with ball roll, causing the button rollovers to not retract fully to open the switches, which meant the 10 point score relay would stick, and get hot.

Overall, I did like it, because of the shiny look it gave to the game, especially playing it during the night time. I just didn't want to have to pull the playfield glass and adjust the stuck button in the middle of a game. I tried trimming them as I discovered the issue, even tried taping it at the bottom where the ball drains, which helped with probably 90% of the shift caused by ball movement, but I never could quite get it to completely stop sticking up those button rollovers.

Maybe you will have better fortune, they do give the field a nice shiny look.

Check your 6v 15 amp fuse, looking down at the four fuses it's the one to the far left. Those first two fuses are for the lights. Second from the left controls the backbox lights, the first the playfield lights.

pictures, in order - bottom, left, right

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Looking at danmarino's 00-90 unit and seeing that bell.... mine doesn't have that bell.... but not for long.

Found and bought the bell and eyelet from Steve Young. Just need the clapper disc to attach to the bottom of the striker assembly. Can't seem to find that, might have to manufacture something.

Anybody know the measurements on this piece? Diameter and thickness? I'm assuming it's steel.

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Sweet. Thanks

The switch for the outhole is right at the bottom of the playfield, in the middle. It's rather easy to get to when you lift the playfield up.

I'll try to post some pics of that game over relay tomorrow (today actually, I'm up late). It's touchy, but really not that hard to get right. On the zippers, there could be a number of things going on there, I recently went through this. Could be your switch is just a bit off. Could be that plate that the coil pulls down. Is it latching, and then after release, it won't close again if you hit the mushroom? Then it will close on a second hit?

I'd start with the switches, but it could also be a weak coil. Or the plate needs a minor adjustment. It's a subtle adjustment, but it is adjustable. You can play with the tension on the big spring as well.

This is the coil in the game over state, pulled to the right.

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Are they latching on every time you hit the blue mushroom? Then unlatching when you hit either of the yellow mushrooms? I'm assuming they unlatch when you drain and the next ball is ejected into the shooter lane. When they won't latch up, do you hear a buzzing sound from the coil that pulls the armature down? When it happens again, you can open the door and see what position the armature on the zipper is in. My original armature would stick to the coil after opening under normal circumstances. It would take me two hits on the blue mushroom before it would close. Apparently the impact vibration freed the armature back up to where it was supposed to be. The new armature (see below) resolved that issue.

How close are your flipper tips to each other, when closed? Probably not related, but might be worth looking into. The armature plate can be finely adjusted. I put a new plate in (got it from JT Amusements) but could never get it to open reliably when I had the flippers adjusted all the way in when closed. I backed that plate out a bit and it's been perfect ever since.

Now, why that would happen when the Odin kickout occurs.... I don't know.

Something to try (I would be surprised if you already haven't done so) would be to play a game with your hands with the glass off. Maybe you'll see something that you would miss, playing the game normally.

10 point bell and makeshift clapper is installed.

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There is a knocker, but it is puny. If you match, you most likely won't hear it because the ball is kicked out of the outhole into the trough about the same time the knocker plunges for the match.

I put in a Sega knocker, after taking off the diode. Much better sound. I'm looking around for a metal tip knocker plunger, and mounting it and a metal plate to get some cool sound.

You have to make that skill shot to turn the lights on, and you get 3000 points for hitting those switches and it lights the two bumpers up for 100 points a hit.

Jappie, there is a coil assembly under the zipper flippers that has adjustment screws. There are two of them.

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Just get bigger knocker(s).

I'm getting better at hitting the captive ball target. My high score to date is 41,140.

To this point, backhand. Still haven't got the hit right for anything using both flippers.

So it begins....

Got the star in place, or at least the beginning. Doing it by hand, smoothing the paint is going to be tons of fun <insert sarcasm emote here>

Still some bleed over through the masking on the lower left beams, that's up next.
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The paint really lifted in this section of the playfield. I can find it elsewhere, especially in the areas that are not exposed to play, however.com the Odin section was really torn up.

Going to tackle the area by the exit ramp as well. Much bigger space, less masking, so I plan to airbrush that.

eh, you're kind and I appreciate it, but it's pretty rough looking. Smoothing the paint out is going to be a chore. Then I have to figure out how I want to go about applying a clear.

Well, now I went and done it

Cabinet restoration, or reasonable facsimile thereof, is underway. The backbox plate is out, safely tucked away in the spare bedroom with the cabinet panel. I stripped it with it in place. Not the brightest move, but then I figured out how to take it out. No harm, no foul. Don't follow my example LOL

I wasn't even in a hurry. Got the backbox cabinet outside now, with the first set of white primer on and drying. Going to need a lot of white primer paint. The wood doesn't look too bad, considering it's fifty years old, and it's solid, with a few spots where the upper layer was chipped and/or broken off. I tried a fill in one spot to see how it looks.... meh.... not sure if I'm going to worry about it tbh. This is our game, we plan on keeping it, passing it on to our grand-kids one day (not planning anytime soon )

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Tell me a bedtime story

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Finished putting the primer on the backbox yesterday, three coats. Going to let it set before testing the blue I picked out. Stencils probably won't be here til mid to late next week.

Up now is the cabinet itself, got the first layer of stripper on. While I wait, here are some more pictures of where I'm at.
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I'm not at this level of expertise either.... but I'm getting there now LOLOL

There will be some overspray, I might dust it with some blue to retain some of the original look. I'm going to clean it up, one way or the other

While the cabinet is empty, I'm going to replace the corner braces. In addition to the slots where the legs attach, I'm going to rib the corners much more than they presently are. The cabinet has a little bit of wobble to it when it moves, and it's all in the legs. When I put the new legs on, I was able to tighten it up a bit, but it still has too much wobble for my liking, and granted it's not much, but I don't like it.

Got the cabinet stripped today. Damn.... lotso goop.... so much that as I scraped it off, it left a bit of blue primer. Got it cleaned up as best as I can, before moving to a light sanding before applying the primer coat. The back of the cabinet is where the worst damage is. Fortunately, no art back there. Not sure what I'm going to do about that yet.

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Goop

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First coat on the backbox. Going to let it sit for a day or two before deciding whether I want to put another light coat on. The bleedover happened after I started painting. A breeze came along and it was too late. Nice thing is, the side art will cover it up.

Edit to add: The color is royal blue. Still deciding whether I want to fleck the face with the white (or silver?) stars.

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Stencils came today, got them laying out to flatten.

Primer coat

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The blue is on

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Gotta admit, putting those stencils on is upping the pucker factor

The weather has been really nice, perfect for painting, during the day seeing temps in the upper 70's to 80 degrees, with low humidity in the 45-50% range. Trying to take advantage of it, without getting in an impatient hurry. I know it's not going to last.

Might do the first stencil this weekend, but want to be very sure about the finish on the cabinet and the backbox.

Thanks. The real work begins soon, e.g., putting the stencils on correctly. And, at the risk of being repetitive: Pucker factor incoming LOL

And the playfield is sitting on the table, waiting for some love

First pass done

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Five stencils down, five to go. Backbox cabinet will be finished tomorrow.

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It is done.

For the most part. Ran into an issue with lining up the stencil on the left side of the cabinet. It was avoidable but I just missed it. Pulled the marker X up, and caught it after it came up. I did my best to line it up, by folding the pulled up stencil at that point back towards the marker, but it was stretched from pulling it up. Ten stencils and it was the only one to do that. The back part of the art, where the red meets the yellow is off a bit, between a 1/16 and 1/8 of an inch is my guesstimate. Very fixable. Some light bleeding with some of the yellow moons, again fixable.

God bless frisket

So, now on to the touch-up on the cabinet where it's needed. I am very happy with the whole process. Kudos and well done to Pinball Pimp for the stencils. They performed as advertised.
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This is the paint I used. Not pictured is Royal Blue.

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I'm glad I did this, it gave me time to think on how I want to approach the two spots on the playfield that I want to fix. Still don't know what I'm going to do about a protective coat on the cabinet. Whatever it ends up being, it won't happen until spring. Nice thing about that, I can get the playfield squared away to where I want it for now, we can play the game, and the paint will have 5-6 months to cure.

Btw, the stencils did not pull up one speck of paint.

Final touch up spray done today. Still have a few more small areas that I'm going to touch up but spraying is done. We did some moving today to get Fireball from it's old home to it's new home. Some pics are off-topic. The Pac arcades were in the space Fireball is now going to occupy, while Galaga sat where the Pacs now sit. Galaga now sits where Fireball sat.

We wanted to have Fireball in the same room as our Fireball II. So today was moving day. The arcades were kind of a booger, but I never had such an easy time moving a pinball machine. Wish they all were that way.

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Still have some minor touchup to do, decided to wait until I had everything installed. Turned out to be a good call as I got a few small scrapes in the blue paint. Most annoying is the back glass edges at the top. Ended up putting some electrical tape around the top two corners for now. Probably going to address that metal frame. Those edges are hazardous to paint, even being careful when taking the glass out.

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Also, this switch in the door, those two wires, insulated by gray run into the harness in the back on the right side. Whenever I test it, it cuts power. Anyway, I cut it about a foot from the switch on the door to make it easier to get the rack out of the cabinet. Put a connector on that line where I cut, so if I ever have to take the rack out again, I can just disconnect.

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Tested it, played fine, everything worked with no adjustments needed. Always nice to have that happen after a major project. It's good to have it back, now it's on to the playfield, which is where all of this started

This bracket, I need some help with if anybody knows. Notice the open hole in the triangle section that wraps around the front. When I pulled those, they both broke. Both were, as best as I can determine, nails that had the round head that looking at them resembles the door hardware bolts. Anybody know a part number on them or if there is a suitable replacement? I looked in the Bally parts manual, but there was no illustration of the bracket with a part number or list of things that would go along with it. Maybe I just missed it.

Anyway, thanks in advance if anybody might know.

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Nice score Tom, and nice machine you got there Christian. Welcome to the club.

I don't like that setup for that plastic at the end. All of my plastics are pretty flat considering age, except for that top piece. I got it flattened pretty well, but would love to find a way to lift that end just a bit, because it's starting to bend again. I've tried playing with it. I think the biggest problem with that is when lifting the playfield to get under, it's really easy to hook the middle of that piece against the bottom of the backbox.

On another note....

watching paint dry LOL
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and a gratuitous shot of the playfield
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As you can see, that top plastic is starting to bend again.

No LED''s on the playfield. Just running standard 44's with colored bulb covers. My wife liked the staggered pattern so we went with red, yellow and orange. She did the design phase, I did the installation phase

You can pull the playfield out a bit before lifting and that plastic clears the back box. I had mine flattened pretty good, just using a hair dryer. It doesn't seem to want to stay that way.

Nice looking machine embryonjohn.

Got the top portion of the playfield painted and cleared, nice to play it again.

Tried a little experiment with LED's in the backbox, only the Game Over section. They look great, but they flicker whenever the game does anything while in play, so out they came.

The painting didn't come out perfect, some wood imperfections didn't help, but overall, it looks much better than it did, and it is smooth
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The lines aren't perfect, as I would like. When I was painting the cabinet, I came to the realization that outside of a completely new cabinet rebuild, and a complete teardown of the playfield, top and bottom, I was only going to achieve a certain level of improvement. I love working on these things, I've got plenty of enthusiasm for doing it, but I'm 61 and I just want to enjoy (while maintaining) the games we have. What a game like this, and what it's been through in it's long life needs, is beyond the time I am willing to put in at this point. I was 11 years old when this game hit the street for the first time

It looks much better, and it is playing extremely well. Overall, from front to back, top to bottom and inside, it is cleaner now than it has been in a long time. I still have the Odin lane to finish, but I'm taking a break, probably until after the New Year rolls in.

Additionally, I was considering some type of coating for the cabinet, but I am rethinking that. It is an enamel paint, gloss enamel at that, so it has a natural sheen. I also did a little experiment on some junk wood.... the paint blistered. Probably needs a good amount of time to cure. And a better clear than what I was testing with, e.g., Krylon Triple Coat.

I may just skip any protective coat.

btw, I have nothing but praise for the Pinball Pimp stencils. They worked very well. I wish I could cut frisket like that. Oh well, I'll get more practice when I finish the Odin lane.

Does anybody know what is the recommended slope for this game? I'm assuming 6-6.5 degrees at the bottom of the playfield.

Thank you.

So, I put my phone on the playfield today. I do not know how accurate it is. At the top between the bottom bumper and the top buttons I got 5.9 to 6.0, as I jiggled the phone. This was laying the phone down parallel to the bottom, i.e., long way across. Laying it horizontal to the bottom dropped the reading almost a three-fourths of a percentage. At the bottom I got 4.9 to 5.2, depending upon how I adjusted the phone, and saw a drop of almost a full percentage when I laid the phone horizontally.

Played with the leg settings to get it level, it wasn't far off and then ran into an interesting problem: the playfield glass would not lock down easily. So after messing around for about an hour (and trying hard to not scratch the new paint job), I decided to bring the front legs all the way back to lowest setting, but left the adjustments in place on the back legs. Got the low end to slope at 5.9, and the game is level.

Soooo.... I'll see how it plays and if I have to I'll drop the back legs back down a bit. For the most part I think I have it where it needs to be.

I'm using the Clinometer app on my phone. It's free, and will at least get you a rough idea of where it's at, should you be so inclined.

See what I did there?

Funny story, about my wife's observations of Fireball.

Her: Flippers are weak!
Me: It's not Dungeons & Dragons.
Her: I know that, but it just seems like you can't hit the ball hard enough.
Me: It's not Fireball II, either
Her: I know that, just saying. You asked for feedback, I'm giving it.
Me: I understand honey. Thanks for the feedback.

There are times, especially after I rebuilt the flippers on D&D and Fireball II, where first contact with the ball leaves one the impression that escape velocity has been achieved.

The little zipper flippers will knock the ball up the playfield, but it is most likely never going to produce a launch or an airball.

Btw, back to my paint job on the upper part of the playfield. After I put the clear down, I did the eight inch ball drop to test how well it took. Dimpled up the wood the way you would expect, but no cracks, no ghosting, so it took well

Ok, here be a weird one. This had been happening from time to time before tearing the game down to paint.

From time to time, and only on the fourth player - to this point - when I hit the skill shot instead of scoring 3k points, I get 13k. I have replicated it with a ball trapped in the Wotan hole. It's only on Player 4 when this occurs. It doesn't happen every time.

I think it's the reel contact on the fourth player rack. It was tighter than the other three. I gapped it a little bit and after a few attempts to replicate the issue, it hasn't re-occurred.

We'll see. It's not a deal breaker, but if it persists, I am always the fourth player in a four player game

Oh hell, that's nothing. You should have seen the scores I racked up troubleshooting my scoring issues. Hell, I turned three players over at least once....

Pinball is easy when you don't have to use the flippers

All kidding aside, nice game.

And btw, I'm dropping the back legs to flatten the slope back to where it was. Still getting a lot of drains after skill shots, when I'm using the flippers and not trying to reproduce an issue.

Got both scoring issues resolved, btw.

Pretty sure that's normal.

Had that issue when I got into fixing and cleaning my game. You can go here - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fireball-fourth-player-not-working#post-7078320 and go through what I went through to get mine working. Pinsider DanMarino has experienced the same issue, as I am sure others have as well.

It's not a hard issue to resolve, but it may drive you a little crazy getting to resolution

I still limp wrist that one

There's a technique to it, I just haven't figured it out yet.

Btw, been working on my Fireball II and LOTR lately. Playing them and then playing Fireball.... I feel like I'm playing real slooooooowwww....

Oh hell yeah, I have changed five sockets under the playfield, including two way up top on the left that are above the skill shot exit. I also changed up the color of the lights on the other side of the ramp, above the entrance to the skill shot ramp. I put new red lamp shields in, left the orange condom on the one all the way to the back and upper right. I didn't like the white halos, it just seemed to drown out the red glow, so I halved three red condoms and put them over the opening. It really changed the mood and look of the playfield, for the better.

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All the love put into this game and the ball rolls away like a dead leaf in the wind....

Thing that drives me crazy, especially after playing Fireball II.... getting enough umphhh on the ball with the flippers. And, even after adjusting it, re-adjusting it back a bit, the ball still likes to drain down the alleys.

Sometimes I can make the skill shot every time, and then I can't make it at all. I love this game. Drives us crazy

Who is ABP? And yeah, I realize the ball is supposed to drain. I don't want it to drain when a score is rolling up nicely....

Ironically, I read of a FBII owner who changed the upper flipper in that game to a shortie like FB uses, to cut down on some of the flipper speed when trying to get multi-ball. Thought about trying that, but not sure I would like the look.

I love it. The characteristics it inherited from it's big brother are obvious as you play it more, albeit more sound and a lot faster. I went after my Fireball because of Fireball II.

And even with all of the work I put into Fireball to get it where it is now, it pales in comparison to the effort I have invested in FBII.

https://y.yarn.co/a293e7bd-811f-4056-ac3c-4e718f1a7849.mp4

Nice.

Bill Murray put it best: "Bark like a dog. I will teach you the meaning of the word respect"

You probably have one relay coil/switch out of adjustment, or a rollover switch could be just off and it's triggering other actions. Also, check your scoring relays in the backbox, they may need cleaning or adjusting, or the set screw that holds them securely in the brackets could be working loose. There are so many little things that could be causing this, it wouldn't surprise me if it's one, and there is a chain reaction down the line. I've seen weird issues on mine when the 10 pt relay works it's way loose.

My left out lane on the bottom gave me all sorts of weird issues until I trimmed the return. It would return but it was sluggish from time to time. Is the game tallying credits when you feed it coins up to a maximum of 25 unless you have it set differently, or have the game set to free play. Have you cleaned the contact plates in the cabinet? Wouldn't be a bad place to start, with the playfield up fire up a game and watch what they do. Sounds like a stuck switch though, but I'm not there seeing what it is doing.