(Topic ID: 118154)

'72 Fireball club. All here can enter Valhalla


By embryonjohn

5 years ago



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  • 167 posts
  • 51 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 minute ago by chas10e
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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There are 167 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 2 years ago

A bit of unspoken Fireball pinball history:

There are at least FOUR different variations of the factory Fireball backglass I have personally seen, which includes the prototype and German versions, not including the CPR remake, or the Shay version created on plexiglass (which coincidentally also has colored moons which people probably may not realize and shown below for reference).

That would make SIX versions.
There might be a SEVENTH I cannot recall from the 1990s, as I don't remember who might have done it, if someone even did.
I don't think Alan Meyer did this glass.

Comparing a single version of the backglass means a person is missing a major part of the artwork equation in terms of this title.

The bottom line here is the backglasses are are not all the same, and all have color variations on the moons and stars, predominantly.
Some did, some did not.
But, comparing the production game is just one set of eyes looking at the game in a single manner.
In my estimation, most likely variations during the ink screening process for at least part of the production run or at the request of the artist himself, which has happened before during pinball history. I have examples of such changes on my walls. A good example was Embryon that used purple versus blue for the top pantones on early production backglasses.

I doubt that CPR had access to every single version for comparison, or the original drawings (such as below) as they did not include the pantone ink screen markings.

Which is truly correct?
What was the original intent?
Only Dave Christensen knows
http://www.kensmurals.com/Dave%20Christensen%20pinball%20line%20artist.htm

I cannot speak for which version CPR used for re vectoring or how much latitude was used for the backglass design, but I do know it is not directly the same as the production backglass, but more akin to the early production.
If people are concerned, just ask Stu/Wayne/Kevin.
I am quite sure they did some type of research.

After recently locating a third German backglass added my archives, it is very similar to the CPR remake in coloring.

Keep flipping.

image-40.jpg

Shay Fireball.jpg

#102 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

I cannot speak for which version CPR used for re vectoring or how much latitude was used for the backglass design, but I do know it is not directly the same as the production backglass, but more akin to the early production.
If people are concerned, just ask Stu/Wayne/Kevin.
I am quite sure they did some type of research.
After recently locating a third German backglass added my archives, it is very similar to the CPR remake in coloring.
Keep flipping.

CRP, when they released fireball, openly stated that the artist did the flames in particular differently because the artist thought his looked better than the original.

#103 2 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

CRP, when they released fireball, openly stated that the artist did the flames in particular differently because the artist thought his looked better than the original.

Yep.

Sad.

#104 2 years ago

Brothers, I am in the process of repopulating my playfield after tearing it down and could use some pics, or direction as to which height posts go where. Like a dork, I didn't write down which size posts go where. Thanks!

Also, any idea where a good place to find shop out pics of this game might be? There don't appear to be any listed here.

#105 2 years ago

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

#106 2 years ago

Been in the club for a bit. First got a 72. Then a classic and home and lastly fireball 2.
Still have the 72 needs a playfeild restoration and just playing it for now. And so does the fireball 2. I want to eventually restore them both side by side. With clear coated playfeilds.

2 months later
#107 2 years ago

Anyone know where to buy a lockdown bar for the EM Fireball? On the game that I have the glass was held in place via a drywall screw (Although that seems to be the least of its problems)

I see the ones for sale on Pinball Life are for '74 and later so I'm guessing those won't work.

#108 2 years ago
Quoted from TheArrrrrcade:

Anyone know where to buy a lockdown bar for the EM Fireball? On the game that I have the glass was held in place via a drywall screw (Although that seems to be the least of its problems)
I see the ones for sale on Pinball Life are for '74 and later so I'm guessing those won't work.

this post is a year old but he still might have it , the table quoted it from '74 but that might be when they made the change to the slide in lass & not the lift up frame

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-bally-pf-glass-and-frame#post-2920882

shoot 'em a PM

would love to see that game going

Shawn

#109 2 years ago

I am looking for a playfield. Please PM me with anything you have.

#110 2 years ago
Quoted from TheArrrrrcade:

Anyone know where to buy a lockdown bar for the EM Fireball?

Where are you located? I have a spare lift-up frame (w/ glass) that I might be willing to part with, but I am not interested in shipping.

#111 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Where are you located? I have a spare lift-up frame (w/ glass) that I might be willing to part with, but I am not interested in shipping.

I am in MA so that won't work, but thanks for the offer!

#112 2 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

this post is a year old but he still might have it , the table quoted it from '74 but that might be when they made the change to the slide in lass & not the lift up frame
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-bally-pf-glass-and-frame#post-2920882
shoot 'em a PM
would love to see that game going
Shawn

Thanks Shawn! Sent a PM, we'll see...

3 weeks later
#113 2 years ago

for giggles I took the lockdown bar off my Xenon and placed it in the receiver for my Joust and it fit pretty ok

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Added 16 months ago:

EDIT: The side-rails are wider on the flip-up glass frame making my Xenon lockdownbar un-useable

#114 2 years ago

For Fireball (Bally, 1972) enthusiasts.
A rare look outside pinball museums such as Ann Harbor, MI or Banning, CA.

5 out of 13 Ted Zale "zipper flipper" games in my present collection from that specific electromechanical era (1966-1973). Four Million BC, Nip-It, Dixieland, Fireball, and Joust. This is the first opportunity I have had to get them all on a single lineup for gameplay in their lifetime. These are some of the grandfather titles of many of the features modern games use today.

Assistance is always appreciated to find the remaining six titles required to complete my entire list including the exports.
Particularly, three direct and predominantly exported titles - Joker, Cosmint (Switzerland), and Alligator (Germany).
One may already have been found...

Operation Zipper Flipper.jpg

#115 2 years ago

Have you found a wiggler to add to that collection then?

#116 2 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Have you found a wiggler to add to that collection then?

Yes, I own 'The Wiggler' presently unrestored.

A little bit of pinball history.
Shown below are all the TED ZALE titles that had "zipper flippers" not all games that utilized this feature or games he designed, but he was the creator of "zipper flippers".

Those with (X) I do not own (there are 6/19). For those that are new to collecting, it is much harder than people realize to find these titles in acceptable condition, let alone restoration. Many examples of these games were stripped of parts by former operators. Some of the games make prototypes like King Kong easy to find. Many were "played out" due to popularity. Other titles were complete commercial failures with small production runs, and got junked. It is even harder to find them in superb-collector quality condition, and have spent well over 2 1/2 DECADES (not years!) locating them, building networking with many people as I go. However, this does not make these games worth some sort of gold bullion, except to the right person. Now, some are recognizing their value, and "trendiness" in the present times of pinball fandom. My book probably won't hurt them either. Maybe more will be saved as a result.

Those with x2 subtext are my game title duplicates, not counting added spare parts and backglasses, and soon to be hopefully adding a few more.
I do offer duplicates as trade for titles I require, or are otherwise the parts are used in restorations, not for personal "hoarding".
As I have stated to others, I focus the majority of my EM expertise on these specific set of Bally games from the 1960s and 1970s, although I know most manufacturers and designs such as Gottlieb, United, Williams, and Chicago Coin.
I am actually in friendly "competition" with one particular collector for a certain game, Joker (Bally, 1968).

"The LIST":

1966-10 Bazaar (under present restoration)
1966-12 Capersville (restored)
(X) 1967-04 Rocket III<----Multiple examples located, but sale difficulty
1967-08 The Wiggler (unrestored)
(X) 1967-12 Surfers <----Several located, not sufficient condition for restoration for asking price
1968-01 Dogies<----Duplicate additional game sale confirmed (French export) (both unrestored)
1968-04 Dixieland (fully restored)
(X) 1968-06 Joker<----Only seen one example in nearly 30 years!
(X) 1968-08 RockMakers<----Located but in the wrong cabinet; several other potentials
1968-11 MiniZag x2 (restored, unrestored)
(X) 1969-01 Cosmint<----Only seen two examples in nearly 30 years!
1969-01 Cosmos x2 (restored, unrestored)
1969-04 Op-Pop-Pop x2 (both unrestored)
(X) 1969-06 Alligator<----Located in great condition, sale confirmed (unrestored)
1969-06 Gator<----Duplicate additional game sale confirmed (French export) (both unrestored)
1969-09 Joust x2 (fully restored, unrestored)
1971-05 Four Million B.C. (fully restored)
1972-02 Fireball (fully restored)
1973-07 Nip-It (fully restored)

2 months later
#117 2 years ago

HI seshpilot,

because i am at the restoration of my PF at the moment here are some pictures from the different posts.

Best
Jürgen

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4 months later
#118 1 year ago

Joined the club restored sample #15
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1 month later
#119 1 year ago

Had anyone put led’s into their Fireball? Which ones work best? Do I need non-ghosting leds? Any suggestions?

#120 1 year ago
Quoted from jls667:

Had anyone put led’s into their Fireball?

No one with any sense, no.

#121 1 year ago
Quoted from jls667:

Had anyone put led’s into their Fireball? Which ones work best? Do I need non-ghosting leds? Any suggestions?

hell yes! Comet 2 SMD warm white look great in the game!

#122 1 year ago

Is it easy to replace the 44/47 bulbs with the led bulbs? Do I need to change the height of the base to look right?

4 months later
#123 1 year ago

Thanks. I added LED bulbs to my machine. I like the new look.

#124 1 year ago

Hallo,

did someone know if it is possible to get repro plastics?

Kind Regards

#125 1 year ago
Quoted from Sly311271:

Hallo,
did someone know if it is possible to get repro plastics?
Kind Regards

I posted this in another Fireball thread:

Quoted from jbovenzi:

pacman I am also working on a Fireball 72 and found at least two of the plastics new:
http://www.pinballrescue.net/Plastics_Fireball.html
Not a complete set, but perhaps useful.
Following your thread...

It is just the two clear plastics and not a printed set. If you can find more information out about a complete set, I would appreciate it.

http://www.pinballrescue.net/Plastics_Fireball.html

#126 1 year ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

I posted this in another Fireball thread:

It is just the two clear plastics and not a printed set. If you can find more information out about a complete set, I would appreciate it.
http://www.pinballrescue.net/Plastics_Fireball.html

A few sets got made a while back, they don't show up often as I assume most went into machines. But I know someone who has a set uninstalled.

#127 1 year ago
Quoted from Marvin:

A few sets got made a while back, they don't show up often as I assume most went into machines. But I know someone who has a set uninstalled.

PM sent.

#128 1 year ago

Why is it that playfield for this game has never been remade?

#129 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

Why is it that playfield for this game has never been remade?

Probably because it's not flat which adds to the difficulty ?

#130 1 year ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Probably because it's not flat which adds to the difficulty ?

nope field is made flat. they cut a small piece at teh factory and installed the wedge to lift the skill shot. No manufacturing issues.

4 weeks later
#131 1 year ago

I've had my Fireball since the early 90's and it's been on my list to restore ever since. In the next few months, I plan to start the process but it is missing a few pieces. I have the plastics and bumper caps but I need to find a lower arch and shooter gauge. The part number for a Fireball lower arch is P-5831-38 but it's different from the more common P-5871-38. Does anyone know the physical difference? If I can get some detailed pictures of each type, it would be helpful and much appreciated. I might be able to modify a common arch to work but finding the correct one would be best. I'm thinking not likely.

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#132 1 year ago

short story: the one you can use is the same as my #joust-bally P-5871-38

Long story: I took one off a #fireball-bally to compare and I noticed on the side where the ball exits into the shooter lane the arch had been rounded some. Joust being a single ball game I thought perhaps it it wasn't necessary. then I noticed my #wiggler wasn't rounded either. Wiggler has a different color scheme but all 3 arches are interchangeable bolt patterns and all.

I also took my Joust arch & fitted it on the Fireball to see if the ball hit when released and there was no problem at all.

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#133 1 year ago
Quoted from chas10e:

short story: the one you can use is the same as my #joust-bally P-5871-38
Long story: I took one off a #fireball-bally to compare and I noticed on the side where the ball exits into the shooter lane the arch had been rounded some. Joust being a single ball game I thought perhaps it it wasn't necessary. then I noticed my #wiggler wasn't rounded either. Wiggler has a different color scheme but all 3 arches are interchangeable bolt patterns and all.
I also took my Joust arch &amp; fitted it on the Fireball to see if the ball hit when released and there was no problem at all.[quoted image][quoted image]

This is what I needed to know. Does the rounded exit area look factory? Thanks for the info and images.

#134 1 year ago

I couldn't really tell if factory or not. doesn't look like a hack job IMO. The only thing that puzzles me is that it wasn't necessary.

Would be interesting to see if it was indeed factory from another Fireball owner

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#135 1 year ago
Quoted from chas10e:

I couldn't really tell if factory or not. doesn't look like a hack job IMO. The only thing that puzzles me is that it wasn't necessary.
Would be interesting to see if it was indeed factory from another Fireball owner
[quoted image]

Looking at your picture from underneath, it looks to be worn by the ball bashing it. Are all the mounting brackets any different between your games? Besides this they look identical.

#136 1 year ago

I reassembled every thing after the pics ... Joust is a single ball game the ball rests on the out-hole at end of game and kicked from there into the shooter lane. it does pass one switch though, not sure why.

Fireball & Wiggler the ball kicks from the out-hole into the through to be held up by the crescent ball gate and rests on 1 of 3 switches.

Posts 10 & 16 show pics other nice examples of this title with un-bent arches https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/72-fireball-club-all-here-can-enter-valhalla#post-2239414

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/72-fireball-club-all-here-can-enter-valhalla#post-2475401

Must be a typo in the manual or something

4 weeks later
#137 1 year ago

Does anyone know if a playfield protector exists for this game?
Plastics set?

#138 1 year ago
Quoted from brenna98:

Does anyone know if a playfield protector exists for this game?
Plastics set?

Why, that would be pointless. Plastics exist but are near impossible to find. Unlicenced likely very few not installed of the small run.

#139 1 year ago
Quoted from Marvin:

that would be pointless.

I wasn't really looking for opinions, just facts. Can you elaborate on why you think a protector isn't available? Perhaps it would have issues with rollovers, spinning disk and entry ramp?

#140 1 year ago
Quoted from brenna98:

I wasn't really looking for opinions, just facts. Can you elaborate on why you think a protector isn't available? Perhaps it would have issues with rollovers, spinning disk and entry ramp?

Not looking for opinions, you're on a discussion board.
Protector might be available, but stupid on fireball. There are no airballs and about 3 spots that ever show wear at all. The game plastics are available, but near impossible to find.

#141 1 year ago

Ok, then here's my opinion on a protector: It's a great alternative to clearcoat. For example, If I want to touch up a few wear spots then they need to be protected; otherwise they will just wear off again. So, what are my options:
Mylar piece - Great you protected that spot, what about the rest of the playfield? Yes, you can put mylar all over it, but can you do it well? What if you want to take it off for clearcoat later; good luck not peeling up art with it.
Poly - Debatable if it holds up over time. Was once a popular option for EM's.
Clearcoat - great solution if done properly and playfield touchups are nice.
Protector - alternative to clearcoat and reversible. Say when you sell the game, they next guy wants to get it professionally restored. The PF is still in it's original condition underneath.

Guess I pick one of the other 3 if protector isn't available...

UPDATE: thrillhouse is working on a fireball protector now! He says it will be ready in a few weeks.
You can see and buy his products here: https://beehivepinball.bigcartel.com/product/playshield-playfield-protector

1 week later
1 week later
#143 1 year ago
Quoted from Thrillhouse:

Playshield for Fireball is finished and ready.

Perfect fit, looks and plays awesome.
Thank you for making these!

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#144 1 year ago

Just ordered a protector! Thanks for the info!

#145 1 year ago
Quoted from brenna98:

Thank you for making these!

+1, I have ordered one as well.

#146 1 year ago

That playfield is in amazing condition brenna98. I never got over missing out on a home use only Fireball from ebay for 2.5K about 7 or so years ago.

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

Just ordered a protector!

Quoted from Joydivision:

+1, I have ordered one as well.

Thanks for supporting Thrillhouse
The stars aligned with this one. I was already looking to get a bunch of his early Stern protectors. Then I noticed he had a Fireball in his collection and also noticed a lack of protectors available for this title. He was nice enough to accommodate the request and get it made very quickly.
I hope he sells a bunch!

#148 1 year ago

I had a game on the weekend and in 2 ball m/ball I had one ball coming down the playfield and the other trapped on the right flipper.
I've hit the flipper, the ball hits the other ball coming down the playfield, both balls split up with one going in the left saucer and the other straight into the right saucer.
What an amazing shot to make, even though it was a fluke

#149 1 year ago
Quoted from Toads:

I had a game on the weekend and in 2 ball m/ball I had one ball coming down the playfield and the other trapped on the right flipper.
I've hit the flipper, the ball hits the other ball coming down the playfield, both balls split up with one going in the left saucer and the other straight into the right saucer.
What an amazing shot to make, even though it was a fluke

You NEVER admit a shot like that is a fluke ... you say "I planned it all along"

2 weeks later
#150 1 year ago

Here’s just a few of the things I noticed about my early production game that my end of the run game doesn’t have.

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