(Topic ID: 102688)

6803 (Black Belt): Shorted, no power anywhere UPDATE: Power! No left flippers!

By stevevt

9 years ago


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  • 52 posts
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  • Latest reply 9 years ago by stevevt
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There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

As first seen in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-black-belt-almost-nobody-has-played-limited-demand

I had a perfectly fine, new to me, Bally Black Belt. I did some ill-advised poking around under the playfield (yah, I know) with the power on, and the game turned off.

I just replaced Fuse 8 (high voltage out) because it appeared to have blown. After replacing this fuse, flipping the power switch still has no effect. Power does not appear to be getting to the boards at all, in other words.

Any ideas on what I should be checking next? I've checked several other fuses, and they all appear to test good. I will absolutely retest and replace if there's one in particular that might be the culprit.

There is definitely power at the outlet.

Thanks.

#2 9 years ago

Sorry to hear this. Stuff happens though...

You are going to need a manual that shows the test points for the Power Supply Board. Any 6803 game should do for reference.

If the power tests OK then the CPU should blink it's LED 7 times if it is properly booting.

My guess is that it isn't.

#3 9 years ago

Thanks for the help.

Found this info, which seems to be what you're saying I need.

Power Supply Test Points. With the game's power on check the power supply test points:
TP10 = ground (bottom left corner)
TP1 = +5 volts DC (top right corner)
TP2 = 170-190 volts DC (high voltage out, middle of board, adjustable via trim pot VR1)
TP3 = 230 volts DC (high voltage in, middle of board)
TP4 = 43 volts DC (solenoid voltage, top left).
TP5 = 14 volts DC (main logic power before regulation, middle of board)
TP6 & TP7 = 11 volts AC (lamp matrix) TP8 & TP9 = 6.3 volts AC (General illumination)

I have a multimeter. And a basic understanding of how to use it. And a distrust of my findings most of the time.

Because I couldn't determine if I was leaving the switch on or off (no difference in game state, but making me nervous in terms of fire hazard), I currently have the game unplugged. I know that I need to have the game plugged in and switched on for this testing, and I have a pretty easy question: Which position for the power switch is on? The choices are Forward (toward backbox) and Back (toward player).

#4 9 years ago

Use your DMM to figure out if the switch is closed on the game. this is pretty trivial though...

Just go to the power board and check all the fuses. You probably blew one and hopefully that is the only problem.

#5 9 years ago

Update:
The following two fuses seem to be testing bad (Overload in continuity test in my DMM -- please step in if this isn't the correct test).

FU6 (G.I. backbox) = 15 amp fast-blo
FU7 (G.I. playfield) = 15 amp fast-blo

All other fuses seem to be testing fine.

Would these GI fuses being bad really prevent the game from booting? Also note that they both look fine physically, and as you can imagine from their rating, their fuse wires are very thick and I'd think it would look more obvious if they were blown.

#6 9 years ago

I think so.

From memory bally 6803 watches the GI supply crossing zero to time things.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I think so.
From memory bally 6803 watches the GI supply crossing zero to time things.

Well that sounds promising. Hoping Radio Shack can hook me up tomorrow morning. I'll post back with my findings.

If replacing these fuses doesn't do the trick, I assume the problem will be elsewhere on the board.

Thanks!

#8 9 years ago

watch the LED on the MPU board and count the flashes.... that will be a clue. I am sure the zero cross test has to be one of hte last ones it does

#9 9 years ago

The MPU board does nothing. At all. Flipping the switch does as much as not flipping the switch.

#10 9 years ago

Oh. You probably blew the line fuse then. I'd imagine it is near the xformer.

Check your fuses fire the right values, the line fuse should be the last to go.

#11 9 years ago

Interesting you mention the line fuse. I'm going to need help finding it.

I just replaced FU6 and FU7 and plugged the game in. The switch definitely does nothing.

If you could point me in the direction of the line fuse, that would be great. Also, the value for this fuse -- I continue to be working with just some online resources and not the full manual, and I'm not seeing any mention of the line fuse.

#12 9 years ago

Follow the line cord into the game. It is probably in the head, near the xformer.

#13 9 years ago

Followed the line cord into the game. Runs down to the front right cabinet for the power switch. The chain then goes to the transformer. Not seeing a fuse, but I'm probably just missing it.

#14 9 years ago

Steve I have this in the back box not sure if you have the same thing I would check this one if you do.
Joe

20140909_110318.jpg20140909_110318.jpg
#15 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

Steve I have this in the back box not sure if you have the same thing I would check this one if you do.
Joe

20140909_110318.jpg 335 KB

Mine looks the same. I didn't realize that the line fuse was hidden in the, um, line fuse holder.

Found it!
Replaced it!

Game boots!

Both left flippers don't work! Kind of expected, because that problem was happening when I was poking around and blowing all the fuses a week ago. I guess I need to check fuses under the playfield for the flipper problem. Right?

Thanks, all!

#16 9 years ago

Update: Fuses don't seem to be a problem. If I hold up the lower right flipper during a game and press the flipper button, the upper right flipper flips. Otherwise, neither one flips. So, something shorted somewhere?

Any ideas?

#17 9 years ago

I would just pull all the fuses and check them with the game unplugged replace any that don't check out then see if the flippers work. Do any of the other things not work slings bumpers etc? Do you have the gamepad looking thing in the cab to run through the self test? Did you mess with any of the flipper switches that could cause them not to work.
Joe

#18 9 years ago

Pictures of the flipper cabinet button switches and the switches on the flipper coils would help since we don't have a schematic to go by, that is if you are sure there isn't a fuse that went bad.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

I would just pull all the fuses and check them with the game unplugged replace any that don't check out then see if the flippers work. Do any of the other things not work slings bumpers etc? Do you have the gamepad looking thing in the cab to run through the self test? Did you mess with any of the flipper switches that could cause them not to work.
Joe

I have checked and replaced any questionable fuses. It doesn't look like there are independent fuses for each flipper, so the fact that the top left works under weird circumstances seems to suggest the fuses aren't a problem.

All slings and bumpers work. Just the flippers. And now I'm starting to think it's just the lower left one, and if I get it working, the upper left one will be fine.

I can go through the self test with the game pad, but not having the manual makes me really nervous to do that for whatever reason. I didn't mess with any switches.

#20 9 years ago

OK, So you have power going to the flippers as evidenced by the upper one working.

It probably isn't the cabinet switches.

I would think that the EOS(End Of Stroke) switches need to be cleaned with a file and adjusted so that they just open when the flipper crank is at the furthest end of it's travel.

#21 9 years ago

Start a game

Manually raise the flipper

Push the flipper button

Does the flipper hold and the upper left one fire?

If so your end of stroke switch is open when it should be normally closed

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Start a game
Manually raise the flipper
Push the flipper button
Does the flipper hold and the upper left one fire?
If so your end of stroke switch is open when it should be normally closed

When I hold the left flipper up and push the left flipper button, the upper left flipper flips and holds. The lower flipper does not hold.

#23 9 years ago

Measure 43v at the solenoid lugs.

Did a wire fall off? visually compare to other side.

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Update: Fuses don't seem to be a problem. If I hold up the lower right flipper during a game and press the flipper button, the upper right flipper flips. Otherwise, neither one flips. So, something shorted somewhere?
Any ideas?

Had this exact same problem on my DnD. It's he EOS switch, adjust it.

#25 9 years ago

Cool. Will measure voltage, inspect wires, and check the EOS switch at some point. Hopefully tonight.

Thanks again, everybody!

Even though I can't exactly play it yet, it's much nicer to have the game at least turning on and making music at least.

#26 9 years ago

Updates:

1) EOS appears to be perfect. Matches the action of the right flipper, closes when it should, etc.

2) Wires all appear to be attached, though in kind of an ugly fashion, but at least match the right flipper.

3) I have no idea how to measure voltage on the solenoid lugs. Is the idea that I'd be doing it while pressing the flipper button? Not having rails or a prop bar really makes working under the playfield less than ideal.

#27 9 years ago

You need to measure the switches with the continuity test function of your multimeter. They could appear to function correctly but burnt/worn/dirty contacts can prevent them from working properly.

#28 9 years ago

1) It could be worn out even if it is adjusted properly. The EOS switches the coil from high to hold voltage to prevent it from burning up. If it is pitted, the switch will act like it is open all the time (low hold voltage). In that case, It would still hold in place if you manually pulled up the flipper while holding in the flipper cabinet button.

2) The coil itself may be bad. Before you jump to that conclusion, you will have to measure voltage and also test it.

3) Do you have a DMM? All you need to know is that the lug with +V running to it will always be on the far side with the silver band of the diode facing it. This goes for all coils.

Power the machine on, put the black test probe on the ground strap of the cabinet and the red test probe on that point I mentioned. You should see +50v (or whatever this machine uses for flippers). If you see +50v, then the next test is to make sure the coil is not fried. You do this by attaching an alligator clip to the ground strap, then you quickly touch the OPPOSITE far lug (the ground lug) with the other end of the alligator clip. Use insulated clips when doing this. If the coil fires, then your coil is good. The issue is either the cabinet switch or the EOS.

77519.jpg77519.jpg

This is the wiring for a parallel wired coil, but the wire placement is the same for series as well. I'm pretty sure Bally games used 2 diodes.

Another question, does the lower flipper have two EOS switches on it like this?

flipper2.jpgflipper2.jpg

#29 9 years ago

Very cool info. Thanks!

I will be attempting a diagnosis and repair tonight, with the help of a friend.

#30 9 years ago

Good luck!

Get that baby purring and bring her to Ottawa!

#31 9 years ago

Open the normally closed EOS switches on your flippers, measure across the two lugs that have the large gauge coil wires attached to them. You should see about 3 ohms.

#32 9 years ago

Update: My friend helped me identify and fix a wire that had come off one of the coil lugs. All flippers now flip!

Thanks again everybody for all your help. I hope I don't curse this thread or my luck by marking it resolved.

#34 9 years ago

Excellent news. Enjoy the game and the infamous crotch-shot.

#35 9 years ago

Great, now you can post a HD gameplay video since the internet is missing one.
Get to work !

#36 9 years ago

If you can get 5 thumbs up on your post* I'll considering doing it. But it will seriously need to wait until September 27, which is the next real free time I'll have.

*I assume this would be a record for you.

#37 9 years ago

thumbs-up-430x286.jpgthumbs-up-430x286.jpg

#38 9 years ago

Glad you got it working Steve have fun with it! I would love to make better gameplay vid but every time I play it while trying to take video I suck so I will let it up to you!
Joe

#39 9 years ago

Awaiting gameplay video....

#40 9 years ago

Awaiting the game in my house for a restoration.......... Right Steve?

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from movingpictures:

Awaiting gameplay video....

You know what needs to happen. It involves thumbs.

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

Awaiting the game in my house for a restoration.......... Right Steve?

PM'd you.

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

You know what needs to happen. It involves thumbs.

See above - there are at least 6 thumbs in that picture.

#44 9 years ago

I think he's saying your HD gameplay video request post needs 5 thumbs up.

#45 9 years ago

Let's get this done Pinside ... one thumb needed !!!

#46 9 years ago

Why is it so hard to get one damn thumb?
No love for black belt or stevevt?

#47 9 years ago

I'm going to have my fiancee join so she can give you the thumb you need.
Joe

#48 9 years ago

There you go! You got the 5 you need!!!! Sorry Steve

1 week later
#49 9 years ago

As promised, here's my Black Belt walkthrough and gameplay video.

#50 9 years ago

Nice video. Good job on explaining the rules and objectives.

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