(Topic ID: 262128)

68 Williams will only let me add 2 players not 4


By fotoboy

1 year ago

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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by fotoboy
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#1 1 year ago

Hi, so I am trying to get my 1968 Williams cabaret back online after two or three year rest. Got a couple of issues that I have in separate posts... this one,.. the machine will only let me add 2 players instead of 4... Wondering where to start. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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#2 1 year ago
Quoted from fotoboy:

the machine will only let me add 2 players instead of 4... Wondering where to start. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Most likely the Coin Unit Last Position switch is opening too soon.

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

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#3 1 year ago

Hey Howard, I see, so it THINKS (does an EM really think?) that its the last player available, even though its #2. will check that out

#4 1 year ago

So the coin unit switch that I think we are talking about here is the one circled... is this set up wrong? just a hunch...

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#5 1 year ago

Well, I adjusted that so that it now opens after the 3rd coin, and now the score motor runs and runs, but It loads 4 players!
will update in case anybody is out there,,,

#6 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
in my Williams Shangri La the rod on the gear and the "switch to open" are mounted different - see the JPG, stepping up means turning clockwise. In the last step (to "four players do participate") the rod on the gear lifts the switchblade. Greetings Rolf

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#7 1 year ago

I see that, I wonder if its some sort of mod. Effect is the same, except the switch seems like it would be more reliable on yours. I checked my 72 Williams Fan Tas Tic it is the same as the Cabaret

#8 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
I see You also have an "Dipsy Doodle" pin in Your collection --- how is the switch on Coin-Unit in Your Dipsy Doodle ? Greetings Rolf

#9 1 year ago

rolf_martin_062 Hey Rolf, well, my collection needs to be updated. I only have Cab and Fan-tas-tic. I will fix that.

#10 1 year ago

rolf_martin_062 Hi again, so my switch activates the reset and then continues as if I am pressing it again, I only wish the switch was sticky... something more sinister I am afraid. It loads 4 players again.

#11 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
the switch You have encircled red in the JPGs in post-2 and post-4 was put into the pins for ONE reason: In the arcade rooms to make it impossible for player to press the "Replay / Credit / Start Button" more than four times. Pressing four times does start for a Four Player game - then faulty pressing a fifth time (without the mentioned switch): A Replay would be taken off the Replay-Counter but not starting for a fifth player to participate --- people complaining --- so the manufacturers mounted these switches into the pins.
If You promise to either not complain or not pressing the button more than four times: With a jumper make this switch "closed all the times". Greetings Rolf

#12 1 year ago

Ok, good to know. I doubt that would be my problem with the starter motor not stopping, nor the "always load 4 players" problem.

#13 1 year ago

I have the game setup free play, so no credits come or go...but I promise not to press button 5 times or to complain to management.

#14 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
we live in different time zones - here in Switzerland it is getting late - soon I will go to sleep, this is my last post for today.
I need a good description of what is happening in Your Cabaret - You have the main power cord disconnected - You then plug-in (does the motor start to run ?) - You press the left flipper button - lights turn on - does the motor start to run ? - You press the Replay Button - the motor starts to run - do the Score-Drums reset (beeing stepped forward) ? And then ...
With an good description me and other pinsiders can dig-in into the schematics and look-up stuff - suggest tests and/or ask questions. Without a good description it probably will be just guessing. Greetings Rolf

1 week later
#15 1 year ago

Hi Rolf,
First of all, I think its amazingly cool that I can be getting help from someone thousands of miles away (or Kilometers for you guys) and Thanks.

I am only able to work on this machine on weekends, hence the 5 day delay... then I have to remember where I was etc... anyway I'm back. I will answer above questions... but I have encountered an interim problem that I must deal with first. I removed PF again to get better look at some steppers, since I replaced it she will not restart.

#16 1 year ago

Hey Rolf,
I gave the two PF Jones plugs a good cleaning and it is more cooperative now.

Still having the problem with loading multiple players... now it ALWAYS hits me up with 4 players. One push of the magic reset button, everything resets, and 4 players are good to go.

I still also get more than 300 points occasionally... when I hit any 300 point score piece (which are only sometimes lit during a normal game.)

Hope all's well in Switzerland.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from fotoboy:

now it ALWAYS hits me up with 4 players.

If the Coin Unit Reset solenoid doesn't activate when you start a new game, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#18 1 year ago

HowardR Sorry to be "that guy" but my understanding of schematics is only slightly more than my understanding of Klingon.... I usually cannot find the coils that go places, much less where the circuit goes from there...

#19 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
my mother tongue is German - I always have the problem "do I understand an English text or do I read something out of - that is not in the text". What is "problem with loading multiple players ... 4 players are good to go" - on this there is a loot of room for interpretation. In post-14 I did ask - I need a detailled description like this:
I play (as I am forced to) an 4-player game - nicely through all players, all balls - pin comes to "Game-Over" (visible in the backglass) - I press the Start-Button "4 can play" dissapears on the backglass - I can see "1 can play" in the backglass - the Score-Drums do reset - before the ball is kicked-out I hear the motor run and see in the backglass a rhythmic step up - "2 can play" - "3 can play" - "4 can play" - then the ball is kicked out.
The "written above" is just an example of how detailled the description for me must be - so I then can look up in the schematics --- otherwise I do some interpretation of the text (description) and end "barking up the wrong tree". Greetings Rolf

#20 1 year ago

rolf_martin_062
Thank you for the detailed information. I did not realize the language problem, although it makes total sense.
your description above is very detailed indeed and ALMOST what is happening. I must say, however, that what is happening changes with everything I try. I have recently cleaned many switches, including the ones that are easily accessible on the score motor. I have also rebuilt a couple steppers, one on the PF that is a score switching mechanism, and the player stepper in the backbox. The replay unit may NEED rebuild, as well as a sticky score reel, but have not done that yet. As it is, the score motor will sometimes keep running at restart. When it stops, I can play the game normally... Would a video help or add to the confusion?

#21 1 year ago

Hi fotoboy
please have the pin unplugged whenever You look into the pin - when You work on the pin - whenever You can go along not having electricity in the pin (current can kill).
Here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18043&zoom=1 on top of the picture we see two stepper units - and here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=49891&zoom=1 we see the two steppers also. In Your Cabaret - do these units have paper-tags telling "Ball Count Unit" / "Coin Unit" ?
Have the playfield raised - plug-in, toggle-on, start a game and watch down into the cabinet - DOES the Coin-Unit actuate one coil (the Total-Reset-Coil) and then some time after actuates the other coil (the single-step-up-Coil) - a short pause - again actuates the other coil (the single-step-up-Coil) - a short pause - again actuates the other coil (the single-step-up-Coil) ?
(((faulty always a four player game could be caused "Coin-Unit is gummed-up, stuck in Four-Player-Position - never resetting"))) Greetings Rolf

#22 1 year ago

So, I have resolve the problem. Much as I had expected the issue was a simple one. Once upon a time I had set this machine on free play by jumping a switch on the replay unit... Somehow also the credit wheel got turned to maximum credits, confusing the machine most likely at the coin relay. I reset the Credit wheel and rejump that switch, now I am good to go. YEEE HAW!!

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