(Topic ID: 172899)

'68 Williams A GO GO Startup

By Jhredman

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by HowardR
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#1 7 years ago

I am trying to repair this pin and have hit a road block.

I press the the left flipper and the play field lights up. I release the left flipper and the lights turn off. I cannot hear any relays clicking.

The only thing that happens is while holding the left flipper button and then pressing the start button. The 10 A 110vac fuse explodes as an arc flashes from the scoring motor cogs assembly.

Is this how the ems were normally started?
Holding both buttons at the same time?

I do not see anything on the schematic that would represent the start button other than a switch labeled kickoff. It is in the 24 v circuit. I have checked continuity with the 110 vac wires and the start switch. There is continuity.

Is the kickoff switch considered the start button? By start bitton, I am referring to a red button mounted top left of the coin door.

The transformer does not appear to be shorted or open. I do have the 6 and 24 v on the secondary when the left flipper is pressed.

I have only blown 2 fuses, I didn't try another for fear that I would burn up some coils and motors if the 110 circuit has been crossed with the 24.

Thank you all in advance for your help.

#2 7 years ago

Hi Jhredman
the A-Go-Go is an rather old pin - this is not bad - but means DANGER !!! Maybe a preowner has mounted an 110VAC main power switch - maybe You have the original pin NOT having such a switch.

Whenever You "just look" in the pin or when You work in the pin not needing electricity: UNPLUG the 110VAC power cord. ONLY when You want to do a test and need electricity - then of course You must plug-in. NEVER touch with Your fingers metal stuff in the pin !!! If it comes to "want to actuate / activate a certain relay": USE a wooden stick (or made of plastic) so You do not come in contact with electricity (as wood / plastic are insulators).

Look at JPG-1: "marked violet": You press the left flipper button - You close a Switch that handles 110VAC !, also the Coin-Chutes (how many people fumble on the Coin-Chutes because the do not have a coin to throw-in --- NEVER TOUCH the Coin-Chutes !!!
Some Relays (Coils) are operated by 110 VAC, Switches on relays handle 110 VAC, Adjustment Switches handle 110VAC --- the A-Go-Go IS DANGEROUS to work at.

As long as You press the left flipper button(see JPG-1: encircled green): You have lights, good. BUT the so-called Lock-Relay should pull-in and stay pulling forever and so the "Switch mounted on Lock-Relay (encircled blue)" should be closed forever. It does not (in Your pin) - so there is an fault.

Another fault - the blowing 110VAC-fuse and the sparks on "Cogs on Score-Motor" --- I do not understand the description of "Cogs" - look at the second JPG (I have taken the picture from ipdb): "green dot" is the "real motor", "blue dot" are the Nylon-Wheels - when the Unit turns the Nylon-Wheels actuate switches mounted on top of the Unit, "violet dot" is the so-called "Kickoff-Switch" (((we will come to this switch - for now I ask You to ALWAYS unplug the 110VAC power cord, Kickoff-Switch MUST be closed))), "red dot" is the "Score-Motor Service Jack" - in Your pin it may be a "Switch to turn - having two positions" (?). Does a wire run from "red dot" to the "real motor" ? HAVE THE 110VAC power cord UNPLUGGED - change (at red dot) the male plug into the socket "NO wire is soldered-on" - respectively: Turn the Adj-Switch so there is NO connection made. Look at the third JPG - it is from the ipdb-schematics - on the bottom is the (green dot) "real motor" --- then the FIRST Nylon Wheel is called "SCM-Ind, Index-Wheel". Look and maybe turn clockwise the Nylon-Wheels so "SCM-Ind" is "as shown in third JPG".

Look on top of fourth JPG - (I have taken the drawing from an ipdb-BALLY-Manual) - the "Game-Over-(Interlock-type)-Relay. Locate it in Your pin (usually near the transformer) - press the "TRIP-Coil Armature" (in the JPG press leftbound) - You manually made "Game-Over" - Williams want the Game-Over-Relay to be in "state Game-Over" FOR then to start a new game.

Have some spare fuses --- NOW plug-in the 110VAC power cord - then press the left flipper-button - what happens ? Fuse blows ? Sparks ? (please make a good description WHERE the sparks are) I HOPE for: Fuse does not blow --- and the Lights stay on.

Look at the fourth JPG - You manually made the Game-Over-Relay TRIP - so (encircled green stuff) the LOCK-Relay should pull-in and stay pulling. (((I assume You have a problem (encircled orange) --- in a running pin: If the Game-Over-Relay happens to be NOT TRIPPED (means it is latched): The "encircled orange switch" should make the Game-Over-Relay TRIP --- this does not work in Your pin, we will look-at this later --- the MAIN PROBLEM is "fuse blowing ?" - I want to find out "where and why", greetings Rolf

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#3 7 years ago

Thank you for the information.

I should have provided more background with the original post. The pin was in pretty bad shape as far as cut wires and wires missing insulation. I have replaced and repaired all that I have found to get to this point.

The coin door does not have anything mounted to it. I could not even begin to tell you if a of the coin assembly is there.

The coin switches and coin door light harness is not connected. (The connector right of the left bumper switch harness in the 2nd image you provided.)

From the initial evaluation of the pin. It looked like someone in the past was cutting wires trying to bypass the coin door. I have replaced the fuse holder and put the right sized fuses. There were 20 and 30 amp fuses when I got it.

I will follow your advice tonight and update this thread.

#4 7 years ago

I moved the service switch to the open position.

The 10A fuse that is blowing is the 110 circuit.

The index wheel is in position of your third jpg.

The Game Over was made. Like you described, left bound.

I removed the 6Vand 24V wires from the transformer last week. I was testing the windings. as far as I can tell, nothing in the 24V circuit energized. I did have 24v on the meter about a month ago before I changed the fuse holder.

Are any lights suppose to light up with the left flipper switch and lock relay? I have not seen those lights come on, but I have not replaced any of them either.

I am not sure what the 4 position switch in the attached image is. (Blue wire in position closest to the cabinet wall) It doesn't have a label anymore. It is in a different position than your pic provided.

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#5 7 years ago

Hi Jhredman
a post to come will be about troubleshooting - HERE I only write "Theory".

We can do an beautyful example of "reading schematics". All schematics are "static, a snapshot of an special moment" --- AND WE must think into the schematics: The dynamic stepping through different "states the pin is in - one after another (think of starting a game - the resetting etc.)".
Gottlieb, Bally and Williams have somewhere in an schematics text like "ALL Interlock-Relays are shown latched" OR (complete information): "The schematics is shown AFTER a single-player-game has been started, the resetting has been done, the ball has been kicked-over to the Shooter-Alley - THEN the 110VAC Power-Cord has been UNPLUGGED". This is an IMPORTANT information - Score-Drums ARE in Zero-Position (resetted), Coin-Unit and Player-Unit and Ball-Count-Unit ARE in Zero-Position (resetted) - Game-Over-Relay (as it is an Interlock-Type Relay) is in "state 'in play' means relay IS LATCHED", simple relays do NOT pull (as the 110VAC Power-Cord is unplugged there is NO electricity in the pin) - simple relays ARE already or do return to "NON-PULLING".

Look at the JPG, JPG-"A" is what we see in the schematics - the Lock-Relay is not pulling, its switch (encircled violet) is open. "Game-Over-Relay 'Switch on the relay, encircled violet' is/are in state LATCHED" - (latched !).

Lets say: Yesterday You have played some games - You always have played ALL balls in a game till "Game-Over" - You then have unplugged the 110VAC-Cord and went to sleep. Now, the next morning we have JPG-"B": No electricity (110VAC-Cord is unplugged), Lock-Relay is not pulling - Game-Over-Relay is in state "TRIPPED (as the last game, yesterday, has been played through all balls till 'Game-Over' showed up)"
Now comes the reading schematics - You plug-in, press left flipper-button --- the transformer gets 110VAC current an produces magnetism - magnetism then produces 6VAC and 24VAC current. "Marked green" current can flow and Lock-Relay pulls-in AND closes its "Self-Hold-Switch (blue '2')" - see it in the little "encircled violet" drawing (?), also the Lock-Relay opens "Switch-3, little 'encircled violet' ". Then You start a game - the reset starts and sometime in the Reset-Cycle the Game-Over-Relay is made LATCHED - see it in the little "Switch-2, encircled violet" drawing (?). THE LOCK-RELAY stays pulling due to "closed Self-Hold-Switch, blue '1' ". You start playing the first ball --- somebody is calling "come and help" - You sigh and do NOT play through the balls to Game-Over - Game IN PLAY - You unplug the 110VAC-Cord (and go for to help the other person).

After helping You come back - we have JPG-"C" - the Lock-Relay is not pulling (as 11'VAC Power-Cord is unplugged) - the Game-Over-Relay is LATCHED (game before has not ended normally).
You plug-in and press the left flipper-button - NOW "marked brown stuff" happens: (((The Lock-Relay can NOT pull-in as BOTH switches are open))) Through brown-line the Game-Over-Relay-TRIP-Coil gets activated - relay pulls and throws Switch-"2" - we smile and proceed "reading schematics" in JPG-"B".

This JPG is a beatyful example that "we must think steps to be done INTO the (static) schematics", greetings Rolf

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#6 7 years ago

Hi Jhredman
this post is about troubleshooting. The 110VAC fuse blows --- this can be a fault in / on the transformer --- BUT it can be some OTHER place in the "wiring on 110 VAC".

Look at JPG-1 (marked "brown") --- IF (if, if for example) the "Coil of 10-cent-relay is toasted, damaged - making a short": IF (if) at the same time the "10 cent coin-chute-switch" is also faulty - is faulty-always closed: You plug-in the 110VAC Power-Cord AND the 110VAC-fuse BLOWS.
IF (if) ONLY the Coil on 10 cent relay is damaged (making a short): Plugging-in does NOT make the fuse blow - BUT: As soon as You throw-in a dime and the switch closes: 110VAC-fuse BLOWS.

I live in Europe - we have 220 VAC Line-current so we have OTHER transformers - I can NOT help on US-transformers. Look at the second JPG - the Letters A,B,C,D are the 6VAC- and 24VAC-lugs - "E" is "ground for protection" --- "F" IS INTERESTING, "G" is also on the bottom of the transformer (I cannot see on the ipdb-picture: WHERE).
"F" and "G" are the connections on the transformer.

Unplug the 110VAC Power-Cord (Safety reasons) - UNSOLDER "F" and/or "G" --- then try the plugging-in - question: DOES the fuse blows - If "No": The problem most likely is with the transformer --- if "Yes": The problem most likely is NOT the transformer - the problem is SOMEWHERE ELSE in the (many) 110VAC-wirings. Greetings Rolf

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1 week later
#7 7 years ago

Thank you for your help. I realized I have been reading the schematic backwards. It makes more sense tracing the circuits outside in.

The Coin Relay coil is shorted. I removed one of the wires from the coil.
I had to file/clean the contacts on the Kick Off Switch. There was no continuity through the switch. After I fixed this Kick Off Switch and removed the wire from the Coin Relay coil, the system lights up the Playfield and the Back glass. It no longer blows the 110 VAC fuse with the Coin Relay coil disconnected.

I assume that I will need to replace the Coin relay before anything else would happen. I also want to set the machine to Free Play. The harness from the coin door is disconnected. I would rather not have any power running to the door if it can be left this way. I am not certain all of the coin door parts are present. It appears that that all of the switches are normally open on the coin door. If the machine is in Free Play, then this connector not being connected should not have any side effects on the operation.

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#8 7 years ago

Hi Jhredman
great - You made some progress.

Think back in the days of the late 1960ies --- THESE pins were on locations doing fine - and the customers had fun --- NO accidents - BECAUSE: The Coin-Doors were LOCKED - NOBODY had access to the inside of the pin - NOBODY could fumble on Switches (and get into contact with 110VAC).

We could do some "new wiring with 24 VAC" (((as the mid-1970ies pins were / are wired)))" --- my advice is: No --- I say: Fix the pin - make it running as shown in the schematics. You may place a piece of cardbord on the apron under the playfield-glass, text: "NEVER open the Coin-Door when the pin is toggled-on, NEVER touch switches in the pin - SOME switches (Coin-Chutes, Replay-Button etc.) have connection to 110 VAC !!!".
AND YOU store away the keys to Front-Door and Backbox-Door "child-proof".

Buy a new coil for the "Coin-Relay", mount it and write about "problems - if there are problems" - we can have a look at "problems" --- AND: I would like to change the logic on the Flipper-Bats to (new): Pressing the LEFT flipper-button does activates "out-left" flipper and "middle-left" flipper. Pressing the RIGHT flipper-button activates "out-right" flipper and "middle-right flipper.

I happen to have an "Fan-Tas-Tic": http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=820&picno=53460 --- and I enjoy my "Roulette-Wheel", greetings Rolf

5 months later
#9 6 years ago

Apologies for the delay in reposting. Work and family have been keeping me busy.

I have replaced the Coin and Replay relays. They were the wrong type of relay to begin with.
I have verified all the other relays in the pin to make sure they match the schematic.

I have got the pin going into reset, but at least the half of the score reels are not making it through the cycle. The score reels get stuck and will not reach zero.

Is there a "best method" to fix/free up the reels?

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Jhredman:

...at least the half of the score reels are not making it through the cycle. The score reels get stuck and will not reach zero. Is there a "best method" to fix/free up the reels?

Yes and which method depends on the cause. Do the reels move well when you push & release the reel solenoids? If not, you probably have old solidified grease that will have to be cleaned out. If the reels do move well mechanically, it's an electrical problem and we can help with that especially since IPDB has your schematic.

#11 6 years ago

My initial thought was dirt, grease whatever that the spring return could not overcome.

The electrical seem okay. The rod moves freely enough through coils. Just that sometimes the spring is not pulling the mechanism back to "home".

I read several months back that one should not put grease in the mechanicals.

Will rubbing alcohol be sufficient to clean the reels?

#12 6 years ago

I've been cleaning a couple of the stuck reels and they are only sticking on the transition from 8 to 9.

This transition is extending the top RED spring the most to close a bottom switch.

The spring that returns the coil to turn the advance the reel just doesn't have enough tension to extend the top red spring.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Jhredman:

I've been cleaning a couple of the stuck reels and they are only sticking on the transition from 8 to 9.
This transition is extending the top RED spring the most to close a bottom switch.
The spring that returns the coil to turn the advance the reel just doesn't have enough tension to extend the top red spring.

SNAP the lever quickly like the coil does. At first I had the tendency to work it smoothly after cleaning with the same problem, but under real operating conditions it did fine.

#14 6 years ago

I made the Cardinal sin of not cleaning the coil sleeve and plunger.

The ones I have completely cleaned and working much better now.

Thank you all for the help.

I will journey on.

4 months later
#15 6 years ago

I have the pin up and running. Cycling through players and scoring. Me and the kids have fun playing it.

My main issue now is that none of the score reels will role over from 90-100, 990-1000. I haven't seen any 1pt. accumulated. I have checked and rechecked the switches and all of them appear to be closing a switch on the 9 transition, but I am not sure which switch is actually the 9s switch to verify it really correct.

There is only one other issue I have noticed playing it. When the spinner is activated, there are three 'Bonus' positions that can be selected. At Least one, and maybe all three; of the Bonus positions will not eject the ball. I have to press the reset button to get the ball to eject and continue play.

Any advice and direction would be greatly appreciated.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from Jhredman:

none of the score reels will role over from 90-100, 990-1000.

What happens after 90 and 990? Do they go to 0 or stay on 90 & 990?

#17 6 years ago

They will rollover to 0 and keep counting, but the reel to left will not increment by one.

So if the score is 90 next score of 10 will not increment the 100. Same with the increment from 900 to add 1000.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from Jhredman:

They will rollover to 0 and keep counting, but the reel to left will not increment by one.
So if the score is 90 next score of 10 will not increment the 100. Same with the increment from 900 to add 1000.

If all 4 players have this problem, most likely the Player Unit fingers aren't contacting the rivets correctly.

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#19 6 years ago

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
Recleaned the player unit and lightly filed the contacts.

Scores would still not increment the the next order of 10. Pulled the score relays out and realized I had forgotten to clean and adjust those contacts.

Now the unit will score 1, 10, and 100s with the proper roll over, but there is a damaged switch blade on the 1000s assembly I have to replace.

I also need to order at least one flipper coil/repair kit, the right middle will not hit the ball. It is very weak.

Is there a site that I can order both from the same place?
I have been ordering from Marco Specialties, but I have 2 hands full of blades that don't match what i need. Some of the phenolic spacers broke when I was trying to get the broken blade out. I will need that replaced as well.

Again thank you all for your knowledge and guidance.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Jhredman:

there is a damaged switch blade on the 1000s assembly I have to replace.
I also need to order at least one flipper coil/repair kit, the right middle will not hit the ball. It is very weak.
Is there a site that I can order both from the same place?

pbresource.com has just about everything.

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