(Topic ID: 107484)

60's (and 70s) Gottlieb - best art plus gameplay?


By gottem

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 66 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by EM-PINMAN
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#1 5 years ago

New collector. So new I don't have a single pin (yet). But I've been doing my research. The new stuff doesn't do it for me, Gottlieb EM all the way

I can see myself ending up with (maybe) four machines total. Don't laugh. I don't have the space, so it really won't get past that!

So I'm thinking -long term- one nice machine from each "era" 50s (wood rail), 60s (classy but modern Roy art), 70s (really starting late 60s fantasy and 'goofy' comic book art). Oh and from the early SS period, the only SS I have any interest in...either Flash or Firepower.

50s was covered recently. Can we do the same again with 60s, and again with 70s?

#2 5 years ago

My 1st pin was Royal Guard (still have it) fun game with the snap targets & 2 ways to light special. Pretty abundant to find. Usually a couple at shows & pop up regularly on craigslist.

#3 5 years ago

1975 Gottlieb Abra Ca dabra - Has both art and gameplay. I only have room for 4-5 pins as well and ACD is a long term keeper.

Ken

#4 5 years ago

You might want to play a bunch first, then determine why you like one over another...then go from there. Otherwise you may not end up with 4 pins you like to play regularly. One or two may become beasts of burden.

#5 5 years ago

I'm in the middle of a pin wasteland, closest place to play variety would be Silverball in NJ...about 4 hours away. Yes I'll make the trip at some point, but I think I need at least one pin before then

For 70s I'm leaning towards Centigrade or Abra. Looking for some folks to change my mind since those are pricey and less common (due to owner love no doubt).

#6 5 years ago

Atlantis is much better gameplay IMO than C-37, but artwork is a very subjective element. C-37 certainly has more babes if that's your thing!

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Atlantis is much better gameplay IMO than C-37, but artwork is a very subjective element. C-37 certainly has more babes if that's your thing!

I'll check out Atlantis on youtube, that's the closest I can get to playing these things, watching others. Yes girls my thing, stop hating them in 4th grade

#8 5 years ago

Target Alpha is my fav.

#9 5 years ago

Is playing against others important, if so you should think of a multiplayer. The rule sets are more compressed (all in one ball) for the most part so they play different. Something to think about.

#10 5 years ago

I like the symmetry of Abra....seems to play faster that way without all the extra side channels. But honestly, I think it comes down to what you can get your hands on....play it, and if you like it...keep it. Don't like it, put it back on Craigslist. That's what I've done with my line up and I'm pretty happy with what I have now.

#11 5 years ago

Jumping Jack!

#12 5 years ago

When I had to pick my first EM Abra Ca Dabra was an easy choice. I love the art on it. Just put in a new Webb backglass, it looks great. It's tough to find fantasy art from that era, that's more the reign of the solid states that followed in the late 70s and early 80s.

It's a challenging game, but all the shots are available from the flippers, no random "hope that goes up there" shots, where you have to count on a pop or random element to do your job.

#13 5 years ago

Try Target Alpha, Fast Draw, Jack In The Box, Abra, or even Atlantis stated above. Can't go wrong with any of those!

#14 5 years ago

Target Alpha!

#15 5 years ago

Strange World without adoubt with his 70's scifi and Target Alpha of course

#16 5 years ago

Wow... could mention so many great ones. I'm partial to 70s games... Target Alpha, King Pin, Jumping Jack/JITB, Big Hit, Card Whiz/Royal Flush. As far as 60s 2 inch flipper games go - I just restored a Slick Chick for a neighbor... didn't want to give it back. Also like Sing Along, Kings and Queens, Snow Derby/Snow Queen.

Don O

#17 5 years ago

Williams Flash is great but don't overlook the Gottlieb System 1's.

Games can be inexpensive and gameplay is very similar to EMs. You can even add chimes instead of the beeps and boops. Just did that to my Count-Down.

I'd recommend Joker Poker, Count-Down and Sinbad.

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mpu=14

#18 5 years ago

I've been through a few, and as far as best art combined with gameplay, I would have to go with Kings & Queens. Just my taste of course.

#19 5 years ago

Thanks for the all the suggestions! Hit Pinball Wizard (Pelham, NH) over the weekend, their site said Atlantis was there...was so hoping...but nowhere to be found. Actually no EM on the floor at all. And Flash was there but off. So I banged up Firepower and Gorgar, among many others, which was still tons o' fun. Sorta dreading the drive to Silverball, but know it needs to be done, but probably not till spring...

#20 5 years ago

In order of my preference today (subject to change)

60's: Kings and Queens
King of Diamonds
(Slick Chick) Mine isn't restored yet but they say it's good

70's: Abra Ca Dabra
Atlantis
Jacks Open
El Dorado
Dimension

#21 5 years ago

Preferences (as with Hoov - very subject to change)

60's:
Sing Along
King of Diamonds
Teacher's Pet (very underrated)

70's:
El Dorado
King Pin
Quick Draw or JITB (if you want a multi-player)

#22 5 years ago

Target Alpha gets my vote.

#23 5 years ago

Just "discovered" (lol I'm very much the FNG around here) Pintastic is being held a handful of miles away next year, so hopefully:

1. At least a few of GTB titles that keep being mentioned are there for play (and buyin'), and
2. I'm not still looking for my first pin next summer!

8 months later
#24 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Just "discovered" (lol I'm very much the FNG around here) Pintastic is being held a handful of miles away next year, so hopefully:
1. At least a few of GTB titles that keep being mentioned are there for play (and buyin'), and
2. I'm not still looking for my first pin next summer!

Okay reviving this thread post-Pintastic after (finally) getting to play some EMs, got some things figured out there. You guys that said "play first" were dead on. I sort of knew that already, but thanks for adding on and forcing me to be patient. I'm dying to get a pin, but don't want to end up with a mistake that I'll need to sell on. Anyway...

1. I'm now sticking with 70s GTB to start. The older era games (50s-early 70s) are too slow, too much luck-oriented (vs. skill) and those tiny flippers (especially if underpowered) are hard to get "into". SS will come later but need really fun chimey EM for my first.
2. AAB all the way. Had so much fun on Pop-A-Card and Neptune! That sharp crack on PAC is so cool too when you get the "add". AAB is the only way to do free play imo. When did the AAB "crack" end? Didn't hear it when I played Ships Ahoy and Neptune.

Taking the above into account, I'm really leaning toward Capt. Card. Much as I like the "crack", I'm assuming CC doesn't but play-action trumps that aspect for my first. Haven't played it, but looks great on YouTube and seems to get raves here and IPDB. Somebody talk me out of it before I start throwing offers around..? And price check please. I've seen $700 somewhere in the forum but that seems low. Is that a real price for a nice player (not CQ)? What could I expect to pay for a beautiful CQ?

#25 4 years ago

AABs should still fire the knocker when winning a ball (or a 'WOW'). If a particular game didn't, that's likely a bug.

$700 is very low for a worthwhile CC. Double that, and maybe if you're lucky. But then there's actually finding one. Not an easy title to locate, especially with a decent backglass and playfield.

Some would argue that the older games actually require more skill.

(And Pop-a-Card has those tiny flippers, and is from the early 70's... )

#26 4 years ago

Captain Card is a good player and low production - 675 - because it's an aab. Expect to pay between $900 - $1400 for a CQ CC. Problem is CC's with good playfields are hard to find and those that have them tend to hang on to them. So, that is a title you have to have patience to find. Pop a Card, for instance, can be found easier. You might try a wanted to buy ad on Pinside, CL, Mr. Pinball Classifeds, etc..

#27 4 years ago

My CC makes a very loud 'crack' with the knocker.

Great AAB, well worth tracking one down.

#28 4 years ago

Jungle Princess/Jungle Queen is my personal fave.Its nice to hear you're interested in the art as a reason to purchase.That was always my thinking as well

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Expect to pay between $900 - $1400 for a CQ CC.

That would be on the low side I think. Maybe for an average condition one.

#30 4 years ago

Excellent comments guys, thanks!

PAC was a lot of fun at Pintastic (actually I almost bought it at $1200), but a little slower than I want (for my first at least) and those tiny flippers...sigh. Actually, largest part of my reticence on PAC was all that open field. Each game has it's own personality, a great thing actually, but that's how folks end up with twenty of them, and half needing work to getting playing again. That just can't be me, so I have to be rather choosy due to space and (sorry, but it's true) a general lack of mechanical/electrical interest. I mean I'll do what it takes to keep a game or two running, but I'm not a fixer/restorer and know myself well enough to know that I never will be one either. It's just painful for me, the thing I'd put off doing for weeks and months. So one bad game is one thing, a room full of them...that equals depression!

There was a really pretty PAC on here last year for either 12 or $1400. And there's one now, but maybe an out of date listing?, for $1200 on Mr. Pinball. So yes, they are around. Gonna try chasing CC for a while first.

And awesome to know that CC should produce a very loud 'crack' - dunno why but I love that. So does the missus. Which (as we all know) getting her on board is more than half the battle

So $1000-$1500 is a fair range, and I won't make anybody (private, not boutique shops) mad by offering in that area should I run into a pretty nice or better one?

Any other suggestions where playability is on par with CC and in the same price range? I'm sort of over chasing the art (C37, Abra, etc), much rather play long AAB games and not get bored.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Jungle Princess/Jungle Queen is my personal fave.Its nice to hear you're interested in the art as a reason to purchase.That was always my thinking as well

Okay cool, I'll take another look at that one, see what the action looks like. Would love great art too (I'm an artist!) but play comes first, and I know great art = $$ so that's a downside.

#32 4 years ago

One thing, if the 60's games you played are too slow, it's more than likely they have not been set up correctly and gone through properly. I think my quickest em is a 1961 Flipper Fair.

Another game to consider. Bank Shot 1976 AAB. Had this a while and miss it. This is a fast em. Wish I hadn't sold it!

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=169

Hard to find but nice ones do come up around $800 - 1200 tops.

And has a loud crack for the extra balls and lights up WOW balls on the backglass. And it is a great shot to hit the extra ball once all balls are potted.

Additionally it is really noisy as it adds the bonus!

#33 4 years ago

If you're also checking out multiple player games, Quick Draw/Fast Draw is a great player & great backglass art too IMO.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

One thing, if the 60's games you played are too slow, it's more than likely they have not been set up correctly and gone through properly. I think my quickest em is a 1961 Flipper Fair.

Yep could be that. I played Ace High, Central Park, King of Diamonds, Ice Show, Melody Maker, World Fair, Show Boat, Egg Head, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting at Pintastic. All awful experiences (imo), except maybe Melody Maker...but I think I like the muscial aspect too much, giving more credit for that than I should!

All those games above, I really tried to like, the art is so nice and the woodrail...so cool. But on pretty much all of them could not get the ball back up past the middle and Ace High...not even to the middle, just 'near' and then fade back to the flippers (and usually a center drain too!) Just not fun. Too much like bagatelle, watch it drop down and do your best to shimmy the ball in the general direction of points. Bah!

Meanwhile I went back again, and again, and again to Pop-A-Card and Ship Ahoy, with PAC being my favorite of the two. That's the early games. Really enjoyed Spirit of 76 as a later game. Very easy to port the "feel" of PAC and 76 to what I see on YouTube now, next best thing to actually playing the games since I can't unless I go to Silverball or next Pintastic (if there is one?)

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

But on pretty much all of them could not get the ball back up past the middle

It's possible the flippers and pop bumpers needed a rebuild. I used to think the old 60s games were slow until I played one with the flippers rebuilt and realized they play fast new out of the box.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballFever:

It's possible the flippers and pop bumpers needed a rebuild. I used to think the old 60s games were slow until I played one with the flippers rebuilt and realized they play fast new out of the box.

Fair enough. This was my first and only experience on EM of any sort so I'll reserve judgement until after I do Silverball in NJ. Speaking of, are those machines all tuned up and ripping? Online comments seem to suggest a high level of maintenance but I'm going to ask anyway! Better to know before making a long drive out there. It woudl be great to get a crisp EM experience on the (much) older machines too.

#37 4 years ago

Thinking about that Team One in NY right now. Nice machine, nice price, not too far a drive. Anybody want to comment on whether it gets boring after a bit? I can see that maybe happening with limited amount of things to shoot for...

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Yep could be that. I played Ace High, Central Park, King of Diamonds, Ice Show, Melody Maker, World Fair, Show Boat, Egg Head, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting at Pintastic. All awful experiences (imo), except maybe Melody Maker...but I think I like the muscial aspect too much, giving more credit for that than I should!
All those games above, I really tried to like, the art is so nice and the woodrail...so cool. But on pretty much all of them could not get the ball back up past the middle and Ace High...not even to the middle, just 'near' and then fade back to the flippers (and usually a center drain too!) Just not fun. Too much like bagatelle, watch it drop down and do your best to shimmy the ball in the general direction of points. Bah!
Meanwhile I went back again, and again, and again to Pop-A-Card and Ship Ahoy, with PAC being my favorite of the two. That's the early games. Really enjoyed Spirit of 76 as a later game. Very easy to port the "feel" of PAC and 76 to what I see on YouTube now, next best thing to actually playing the games since I can't unless I go to Silverball or next Pintastic (if there is one?)

Oh boy, that is really disappointing.

Ace High is one of the best players of the 50's. Awesome game and at the very least flippers on regular tap/coils should get the ball to the top of the playfield.

Ice Show is another quick game with 5 active pop bumpers close to each other. Fast and hard.

World Fair is another great game and not at all slow.

It is a real shame when games are sluggish, wrong pitch, low voltages at shows. Just gives a real bad impression of the games.

Same with SS pins. I once played 3 White Water's at a show. 2 were awful and I thought it was an over rated title. Then I played the third one and it was a night and day experience.

My oldest game is 1954 Mystic Marvel. I have it on a nice pitch, regular coils, not high tapped. Ball easily gets to top of playfield. Thats how it should be.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Thinking about that Team One in NY right now. Nice machine, nice price, not too far a drive. Anybody want to comment on whether it gets boring after a bit? I can see that maybe happening with limited amount of things to shoot for...

Team One by all accounts is an awesome player with a very average art package. If you can live with the art, check it out.

#40 4 years ago

It is challenging to get a fair EM experience with games in the wild. Try and find some EMs in a private collection that have been nicely rebuilt for a better assessment. All of the titles you mention should be capable of much more, and are definitely not indicative of what they're like when done well.

And if you really don't plan/want to tinker on them, you might also consider finding a game from a private collector that's already been fully done (and not just 'shopped'). Big difference for an EM between "working" and "working well".

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

This was my first and only experience on EM of any sort so I'll reserve judgement until after I do Silverball in NJ. Speaking of, are those machines all tuned up and ripping?

All the machines at Silverball are in awesome shape!! Believe me, you WILL not be disappointed.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Oh boy, that is really disappointing.
Ace High is one of the best players of the 50's. Awesome game and at the very least flippers on regular tap/coils should get the ball to the top of the playfield.
Ice Show is another quick game with 5 active pop bumpers close to each other. Fast and hard.
World Fair is another great game and not at all slow.
It is a real shame when games are sluggish, wrong pitch, low voltages at shows. Just gives a real bad impression of the games.

Well there we go then, just a bad batch, which is a shame (for my first experience). And those are somebody's machines (actually all different owners), likely on this board...so I apologize for disparaging whomever's machines...but I am telling it like it is. And I appreciate the opportunity to have played them, even so, as I wouldn't have otherwise!

#43 4 years ago

When the knocked goes off, it makes a thwack! sound.

Games w/ 2" flippers are only fun if they are set up well with enough slope, functioning properly, parts replaced/repaired, and have flippers rebuilt. I tend to like it when the more powerful flipper coils are installed.
Gottlieb 2001 is pretty fun drop target em.
Central Park can be a fun game to play.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Thinking about that Team One in NY right now. Nice machine, nice price, not too far a drive. Anybody want to comment on whether it gets boring after a bit?

I played GTB Team One at least a dozen times when I was at the NW pinball show last month,
and wish I could have played more, so it does have that staying power of almost there and need to try again.
The drop targets do reset at various times or actions, so there is always something to shoot at,
along with the 1-6 rollover feature sequence.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Any other suggestions where playability is on par with CC and in the same price range? I'm sort of over chasing the art (C37, Abra, etc), much rather play long AAB games and not get bored.

AAB's:
Dimension
Pop a Card

Replays:
Jacks Open
Atlantis
Abra Ca Dabra

Lot's of good wedgeheads

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

I played GTB Team One at least a dozen times when I was at the NW pinball show last month,
and wish I could have played more, so it does have that staying power of almost there and need to try again.

That's what I wanted to see! Just found out a beautifully restored mint one available about 30 miles from me for...$700. But that was last year It's now very much sold.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

I played GTB Team One at least a dozen times when I was at the NW pinball show last month,
and wish I could have played more, so it does have that staying power of almost there and need to try again.
The drop targets do reset at various times or actions, so there is always something to shoot at,
along with the 1-6 rollover feature sequence.

I had both set up next to each other for quite some time. IMO team one was the better player but how can you compete with abra's art package. if team one had a similar art package it would be a very sought after AAB up there with capt card and pop a card
if i had unlimited space i would still have it.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

I had both set up next to each other for quite some time. IMO team one was the better player but how can you compete with abra's art package.

I agree that Team One is more fun to play,
but for some reason
I do not care for the AbraCaDabra bonus value score system.
ACB artwork is better,
but i am not that turned off
by the TO artwork.

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

I played GTB Team One at least a dozen times when I was at the NW pinball show last month,
and wish I could have played more, so it does have that staying power of almost there and need to try again.
The drop targets do reset at various times or actions, so there is always something to shoot at,
along with the 1-6 rollover feature sequence.

Yes, Team one rocks!

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from gottem:

Yep could be that. I played Ace High, Central Park, King of Diamonds, Ice Show, Melody Maker, World Fair, Show Boat, Egg Head, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting at Pintastic. All awful experiences (imo), except maybe Melody Maker...but I think I like the muscial aspect too much, giving more credit for that than I should!
All those games above, I really tried to like, the art is so nice and the woodrail...so cool. But on pretty much all of them could not get the ball back up past the middle and Ace High...not even to the middle, just 'near' and then fade back to the flippers (and usually a center drain too!) Just not fun. Too much like bagatelle, watch it drop down and do your best to shimmy the ball in the general direction of points. Bah!
Meanwhile I went back again, and again, and again to Pop-A-Card and Ship Ahoy, with PAC being my favorite of the two. That's the early games. Really enjoyed Spirit of 76 as a later game. Very easy to port the "feel" of PAC and 76 to what I see on YouTube now, next best thing to actually playing the games since I can't unless I go to Silverball or next Pintastic (if there is one?)

Man, I don't know. I thought he "Ace High" played pretty well, and the "Egg Head" which was totally rebuilt and restored, played exceptionally well. The "Ice Show" and "King of Diamonds" played OK, but the "KOD" had "nothing done to it" as stated by the guy who brought it. Gotta agree on the "World Fair" and "Show Boat". They played poorly. "Melody" (no "Maker" in the name) played quite well too. "Ace High" has a very small center drain flipper gap, so losing it down the middle doesn't happen very often if you give it a nudge or two.

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