If it's non-working and hasn't had the required electrical work done to it and you don't know how to solder and read schematics, this is not a game for you. You could also wind up sinking a lot of money into the machine if the boards are beyond repair. If you're looking for a non-working project machine to restore, a Williams Sys 3-6 is a bit simpler to get going by comparison.

viperrwk

Until you get those gottliebs dialed in there are a lot of "required" type mods that involve quite a bit of work. If it doesn't work now who knows how much you'd be doing (and spending) getting it back up again. Not for the feint of heart.

And I should add that if I were close and the playfield was in good shape and the machine complete I'd pick this up for that price as a compliment to my HH.

viperrwk

If its not turning on, and your not good with repairs, u could replace the CPU and power supply for less than $300. Probably not a bad idea anyway since modern boards are more reliable and efficient. So it comes down to how bad u want it, and what condition it's in. Those things sell for $1k and up all day long, highly collectible

Great game, and really not a bad price. You say you're not sure how to work with electrical, but this isn't necessarily a bad way to learn. There are guides out there (at least general, not sure about the specific Gottlieb guides). Keep in mind, you'll need to get a Digital Multi Meter and a temp controlled soldering iron. It's up to you if you want to add that to the cost of the machines, or chalk it up as a long term investment (I'd say the latter if you plan to continue doing your own work).

These things are supposed to be pretty solid once all of the mods are completed. The price isn't bad, but it really depends on the cosmetic condition. Take a look at the board around the battery holder, it it looks like it has a lot of bubbling around that area, then it could be a lot of work.

Plus rework the pop bumper driver boards, install a watchdog timer, check and replace any burned out coils, rework IDC connectors, check and replace the driver board too if that was damaged by battery corrosion then replace CPU/Driver board interconnect cable, replace the 5/12v filter cap...

viperrwk

Cabinet and play field look good. The board on top of the cabinet in the third pic is worrisome.

Looks like the driver board based on those connector locations.

*Edit*
Missing the apron is a problem as that was a unique apron for BH and a few other Sys80 widebodies (Force II, JB) since the credit and BIP display was located underneath it. If you got it from one of these games you would have to repaint it. The disc missing is also a problem. Steve Young does not have these parts - he has the repro plastic set but not the disc nor apron.

Unless he has these parts from another BH not sure what this means and you'll be hoping for someone to be parting out a BH to get them.

viperrwk

As a non-working unusable game in its current condition its worth about $400 assuming all the rest of it is there. You'd then have to sit on it while you hunted parts or sell it for parts yourself and I'm guessing you don't want to do either. If so, good call to pass.

viperrwk

I would look under the playfield for those parts

Ya; I'd offer him $300 if he wants to get out by the weekend.

Run Away, Run Away........

Too many unknowns for a newb. (and I would inlcude me as a newb in this case)

It is odd that the apron is gone and the spinning disc/motor is missing. My understanding is that these are two of the most difficult parts to replace on this machine as they are unique to it. I don't know how someone would have a Black Hole intending to restore it, but then have no idea where those pieces are.

Smells to me like he parted some of it out already. If the parts are there (as suggested possibly under the playfield), then maybe.

Remember that Black Hole has the lower reverse slope playfield, under the main playfield. Not much room for random large extra parts in the cabinet.

Just went to Big Daddy's website: $200 for all the electronic parts to bring a game like this up to date.

If you go, take a small pile of cash...

viperrwk

I have an extra spinning disc if you need it.

System 80 games are solid once you do all the mods and buy all new boards kidding. I replaced the driver and solonoid, the power supply is very simple to repair.

follow the guides that are out there, replace the big orange cap and take things one step at a time. unhook all the connectors and test voltages from the power supply before you run the whole game.

I bet the disc is out because the motor went bad. the playfield and cab look good though.

-c

Interesting. If it were me I would do it, especially if you could knock off another $100.00. That is me though, I've been interested in a Black Hole for years but gave up because I could never justify the shipping costs or find a decently priced one locally.

In that condition it's a difficult choice. Electronics will make or break this deal. If feasible I wonder how much it would cost to get the board(s) repaired.

I'd budget about $400+ for the PI-80X4 board from Pascal Janin and nip a bunch of problems in the bud.

He found the parts, now its time for flirty and small pile of cash. Take $300 with you and hell take it. no one is beating down his door if he still has it by the weekend.

Is the motor with the disc?

Just priced this from Pascal - $389 with shipping and PayPal fees. Still would probably need about another $100-120 in parts for the required electrical work never mind anything else that might be broken. But if the boards are all there and don't look damaged it's going to be tough to talk him down especially if he has some idea of what he has.

You have to decide how much you want to pay for this and tell him this is my offer. If he doesn't take it leave him your number and say if you change your mind give me a call. If you sell it for more to someone else congrats.

viperrwk

Hmm. Just to be safe I'd see if you can get a fellow pinsider to measure one if they have it and send you the exact dimensions. Would suck to get there ready to pick it up and not be able to fit it.

Don't know if it will fit in a Vibe.

Check this out for some clues:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vehicles-that-a-pinball-machine-fits-in

A HH cab is 55"x25.5"x21" LxWxH which is about the same as a BH. You have to take the head off to move it - it is not hinged like later games. All the weight is in the cab because of the two playfields and transformer. Head weighs almost nothing by comparison.

HH was the only game I needed three people to get in my basement. BH isn't much better weight-wise.

viperrwk

Looks decent, I'd feel very safe purchasing it at $400-450.

You want to shoot to keep the end-price at $800 or less which you may reach after the possibility of a $200 MPU, a $100 PS, a $100 plastics set, and most likely several other misc parts and labor may be required to get it up to snuff. If it turns out you don't need to do all those repairs you'll be ahead of the game.

I'd be looking at that BH to buy it if it were me. Start with $300 and wait for his counter offer. as far as the boards go, they aren't difficult to get working unless there is major alkaline damage to the traces on the CPU board. I have many replacements if it turns out that you need one.

There are also a few guys here that know System 80 quite well, some even worked on or contributed to the Pinwiki System 80 pages (Chris Hibler comes to mind, he's also for hire). It won't be a huge problem getting it running again. I'm also kinda known for working on them too. Good luck, post when you get it.

If that machine was in the Northeast, it would be gone by now and would have received multiple offers in the process.

viperrwk

More than likely, and if it were on the west coast, I'd own it already.

BT, I hope your husband knows he's a lucky man, my wife ignores my hobby (which if looked at the right way, could be a good thing. I'm up to around 90+ pinballs ... lost count). Again, good luck.

The last set of BH backglasses sold for over $400 on ebay. It is worth the price in parts alone. I used a substitute motor for the spinning disc and it works just fine. It will take some time and money, but will be worth it when it's up and running.

I'd call or email the guy and find out.
You also mentioned that your Husband has good electronics skills and experience and your Father has very good mechanical skills. To me that sounds like you all could get the BH up and running again. And don't forget all the good help and knowledge that your fellow Pinsiders can give you.

What substitute motor did you use?

FYI - replaced my motor with the parts listed here:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Replacing_Black_Hole_Lower_Playfield_Illumination_Lamps_with_.2344_Lamps
No problems and super quick. The motor and parts listed here are all you need.

I like the fix for the lower playfield lights.

I guess you would sir!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info