(Topic ID: 285559)

$50 PayPal to the first person who can tell me how to fix this issue

By MeNaCeFiRe

11 months ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by ArgosySK
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#1 11 months ago

https://vimeo.com/498990842

The game works 100% EXCEPT for this issue. If/when you get to 1,000 points the game will reset UNLESS you have 2,000 in bonus but will remove that bonus but continue at that point.

You can hear a DING when you press player start and again on player 2 but there are no stuck switches

The game worked fine for 3 months but started acting funny once it started getting cold and is now doing this on every game

Please offer any suggestions! The money and the fame goes to the pinside user that can fix it!

#2 11 months ago

I don't have PayPal so I'm not worried about money but I wonder if there is something adjusted too close in the reset relay? If it's changing with the climate have you checked screw tension on your switch stacks?

-1
#3 11 months ago

I have no idea of how to solve this. Would that qualify for half the reward, then?

#4 11 months ago
Quoted from EJS:

something adjusted too close in the reset relay?

I don't have that schematic but I'm thinking similar since it has the notoriously tetchy AX. Check the make/break switches.

I will bask/share in the glory if it's correct, but you can donate the $ to Pinside.

#5 11 months ago

Might need a tie breaker for this one but are you supposed to get a chime when you add a player? I'm looking at my Vulcan right now and adding players does not make a chime. Is the chime going off when adding a player the same as the 1,000 chime?

#6 11 months ago

Are you coining up one player or two player games? At 0:15 it looks like 1000 points on player 1 spontaneously switches the scoring to player 2 even though the player 2 credit light isn't on an the ball hasn't drained. For that to happen the Player Unit would need to advance, probably because P/Add Replay Unit relay fired.

So it seems like the 1000 points can fire either the P/Add Replay Unit relay or the S/Start relay.

On the whole though this would be easier to debug if you remove the glass and hit targets one at a time.

/Mark

#7 11 months ago

I’d do $50 to the victor and $50 to pinside

#8 11 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Are you coining up one player or two player games? At 0:15 it looks like 1000 points on player 1 spontaneously switches the scoring to player 2 even though the player 2 credit light isn't on an the ball hasn't drained. For that to happen the Player Unit would need to advance, probably because P/Add Replay Unit relay fired.
So it seems like the 1000 points can fire either the P/Add Replay Unit relay or the S/Start relay.
On the whole though this would be easier to debug if you remove the glass and hit targets one at a time.
/Mark

I pressed the second player for a 2 player game. You can hear a DING when I did it

#9 11 months ago
Quoted from EJS:

Might need a tie breaker for this one but are you supposed to get a chime when you add a player? I'm looking at my Vulcan right now and adding players does not make a chime. Is the chime going off when adding a player the same as the 1,000 chime?

The chime should NOT be going off when you press the start button again

#10 11 months ago

I'll add relay U "1st ball" to check as well. Might not be as probable but worth checking out still.

#11 11 months ago

1000s point chime coil toasty causing a drop out?

#12 11 months ago

Are the P/Add Replay Unit relay and L/1000 point relay next to each other in the head? I wonder if there's a short of some kind between them. Also, are your 10 and 1000 point chimes swapped? I thought the highest chime was usually connected to 10 points, not 1000 points.

#13 11 months ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

1000s point chime coil toasty causing a drop out?

Nope! Ohms check out

#14 11 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Are the P/Add Replay Unit relay and L/1000 point relay next to each other in the head? I wonder if there's a short of some kind between them. Also, are your 10 and 1000 point chimes swapped? I thought the highest chime was usually connected to 10 points, not 1000 points.

No. It was working great for months until November, where it started acting funny

#15 11 months ago

It sounds like the 1,000 pt. chime strikes when you press the replay button, this should be triggered only by the L relay. After adding both players can you hit the replay button and hear it chime again? Does it give you points and a chime? Do you have schematics?
Edit: Also confirm that it's the 1,000 pt chime firing

#16 11 months ago

If you unplug the 1000 point chime (the one with the slate wire) or the common black wire to all three chimes, does the problem persist? That might help determine whether the problem is with the chime or the L/1000 point relay.

#17 11 months ago

Jedi
Have you tried to drown it in
3 and 1 oil ???

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-2
#18 11 months ago

Spray every contact under the playfield with this stuff, problem solved!

zep (resized).JPG
#19 11 months ago

Well, first off you have the 1000 point chime wire swapped with the 10 point chime wire, compared to the factory setup. So the highest chime is sounding when you start a game, and when you add a player. But, the circuit that is being energized is the 1000 point chime circuit. I know this because the lowest chime is sounding when you score 10 points, and the highest chime is sounding when you first score 1000 points.

My guess is that there is some cross-connection between the 1000 point chime circuit and the start circuit in some way. That would explain why starting a game sounds the chime, and would also explain why sounding the chime (that is, as soon as you score 1000 points) starts a game. If the circuits are cross-connected, sounding the chime will actuate one of the start relays. I'm guessing it's the S relay, although it could also be the AX relay.

Note that I mean just the chime circuit is cross-connected, not the 1000 point relay circuit. I am guessing that because I'm not seeing any phantom 1000 point scoring happening during game start or game play, which would usually happen with a fault on the L relay (1000 point) circuit. So it seems unlikely that the L relay is involved.

The chime circuit is totally separate from rest of the 1000 point scoring circuit. It is energized by a single NO large-point switch on the L relay in the head. To check my theory, you can disable the chime switch on the L relay, which should silence the chime during game play, and that should also make the spontaneous reset go away.

If the above test works, the next thing to do is determine where the cross-connection is happening. I don't have this schematic, so I can't make an educated guess on this. But I would assume it's something odd, like two solder tabs on a relay being bent over and touching, or perhaps a solder splash across two unrelated circuits.

If you did any repair work on your game just prior to this problem starting, it's usually good to look at the last thing you worked on, and confirm all is well. If the problem came out of nowhere, then it probably wouldn't hurt to start looking for a fault around the L relay switch that sounds the chime, and see if anything there looks out of whack.

- TimMe

#20 11 months ago

Hit it like Fonzie

#21 11 months ago
Quoted from Pinbali:

Hit it like Fonzie

I thought that only worked with juke boxes...

#22 11 months ago

I had come across this problem on a Gottlieb game.
It was a solenoid wire that had slightly cut into the lamp strip, causing
a voltage drain and the game would reset.
I would first unplug the playfield... if everything works O.K.
then I would check under the playfield for
wires that are too close to lamp strips and solenoid assemblies that could possibly
cause a short.

#23 11 months ago
Quoted from TimMe:

I thought that only worked with juke boxes...

Percussive Maintenance works on everything.

Fonzie just made it cool...

#24 11 months ago

Does the issue happen when you play a single player game?

#25 11 months ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

Does the issue happen when you play a single player game?

Yes
I’m going to test all the other stuff above as well in the next couple of hours. Hoping for a fix!

#26 10 months ago

I suspect that the AX or BX relay.
It looks like the machine doesn't think the reset has completed. Both the AX and BX should be reset. If they are reset, check the gap's and wires on the make/break switches on the switch stack.

Step number 6 from this tip.

http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0449.html

#27 10 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I had come across this problem on a Gottlieb game.
It was a solenoid wire that had slightly cut into the lamp strip, causing
a voltage drain and the game would reset.
I would first unplug the playfield... if everything works O.K.
then I would check under the playfield for
wires that are too close to lamp strips and solenoid assemblies that could possibly
cause a short.

Still “dings” when you press start

#28 10 months ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

I suspect that the AX or BX relay.
It looks like the machine doesn't think the reset has completed. Both the AX and BX should be reset. If they are reset, check the gap's and wires on the make/break switches on the switch stack.
Step number 6 from this tip.
http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0449.html

I double and triple checked it. Both relays are perfect

#29 10 months ago
Quoted from TimMe:

Well, first off you have the 1000 point chime wire swapped with the 10 point chime wire, compared to the factory setup. So the highest chime is sounding when you start a game, and when you add a player. But, the circuit that is being energized is the 1000 point chime circuit. I know this because the lowest chime is sounding when you score 10 points, and the highest chime is sounding when you first score 1000 points.
My guess is that there is some cross-connection between the 1000 point chime circuit and the start circuit in some way. That would explain why starting a game sounds the chime, and would also explain why sounding the chime (that is, as soon as you score 1000 points) starts a game. If the circuits are cross-connected, sounding the chime will actuate one of the start relays. I'm guessing it's the S relay, although it could also be the AX relay.
Note that I mean just the chime circuit is cross-connected, not the 1000 point relay circuit. I am guessing that because I'm not seeing any phantom 1000 point scoring happening during game start or game play, which would usually happen with a fault on the L relay (1000 point) circuit. So it seems unlikely that the L relay is involved.
The chime circuit is totally separate from rest of the 1000 point scoring circuit. It is energized by a single NO large-point switch on the L relay in the head. To check my theory, you can disable the chime switch on the L relay, which should silence the chime during game play, and that should also make the spontaneous reset go away.
If the above test works, the next thing to do is determine where the cross-connection is happening. I don't have this schematic, so I can't make an educated guess on this. But I would assume it's something odd, like two solder tabs on a relay being bent over and touching, or perhaps a solder splash across two unrelated circuits.
If you did any repair work on your game just prior to this problem starting, it's usually good to look at the last thing you worked on, and confirm all is well. If the problem came out of nowhere, then it probably wouldn't hurt to start looking for a fault around the L relay switch that sounds the chime, and see if anything there looks out of whack.
- TimMe

So i checked out the L relay
The switch that’s gapped in the picture below would activate the chimes. It also spins the score motor. I have gapped it where it will not touch and I’m am now able to play a game, although I have no 1000 point chime (I configured the chime box correctly)

6208E13D-16C5-4993-93C3-02F7B3813879 (resized).jpeg
#30 10 months ago

Can you safely short each switch to see what is causing the reset? Is it the chime switch on the L relay? If so, follow the wire, it might be a short in the wire harness or maybe at the jones plug.

#31 10 months ago

That chime switch on the L relay should not run the score motor.

As I said in post #19, you very likely have a cross-connection between the chime circuit and the circuit that pulls in the S (start) relay.

If you are closing the chime switch immediately after the game has been reset, when the game is ready for the first ball to be played, then I suspect what is actually happening is that the chime switch is causing the S relay (start relay) to pull in, which is adding the second player, and that is why you are seeing the score motor run when you close that switch. Once both players are added, closing the chime switch again will make the score motor run (because the S relay will be pulling in) but there won't be any other state change on the machine.

You'll want to confirm that is what is happening. If you can watch the S relay while you close the chime switch, you can see if the S relay pulls in. Once you confirm that is the actual fault, you can start hunting for the root cause of it.

- TimMe

#32 10 months ago

Can you check the jones plugs. Maybe a cold solder joint or a wire strand is bridging two points.

If you can, add a schematic snippet of the player reset and the 1000pt scoring.

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