(Topic ID: 134671)

5 playfield switches don't score/chime, help?


By brandsilence

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by DirtFlipper
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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surf_champ.jpg
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#1 3 years ago

surfchamp.jpg

As of this morning, the switches i've circled in the photo below don't register points or chimes when they are closed. I've looked at all of those switches and adjusted them to be sure that none are closed.

Looking for advice about where to look to find where the problem is.

Additional troubleshooting info:

When the 5 star rollovers are all lit, and the green lights in the mid-playfield lane light up, they immediately turn off and the 2x bonus gets lit. This happens without actuating the switch in that lane.

If I manually go through the process of hitting a top lane switch, then trying one of the unresponsive switches, every 5 or 6 times (it's not consistent) one of the unresponsive switches will score/chime. Sometimes i can get the unresponsive switches to register 2 or 3 times in a row, then they are unresponsive again.

I'm at a loss for where to look. I'm trying to understand what condition the top lane switch changes to make the problem go away intermittently.

Any help or pointers are much appreciated. About two months ago I went through the entire machine and cleaned and adjusted every switch. I'm stuck on this issue!

#2 3 years ago

I'd be looking at checking the score motor switches 1C and 2B first.

surf_champ.jpg

#3 3 years ago

Are any of the point relays locked on? (like M, N, L in the backbox). Is a chime plunger stuck on as well? If a point relay is stuck on solid, then it won't score (and the coils will make a humming sound and heat up).

#4 3 years ago

I've checked the score motor and all of those switches look correct. Not thinking I want to rebuild it.

If I gave time tomorrow I'll check on those point switches in the backbox, thanks for the suggestion dirtflipper

While I was poking around I noticed a few other strange things that weren't happening before. Grrrrr

The top rollover lanes that are supposed to give 2 bonus when lit don't often do so. Ever 4th or 5th time only.

When the star rollovers are triggered, there I a loud buzzing under the playfield. Like a joy buzzer. This wasn't happening before.

#5 3 years ago

each of those should have 2 sets of switches make sure both are cleaned and adjusted

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

Not thinking I want to rebuild it.

Don't go crazy..it's going to be something simple--no motor rebuilding. If 1C and 2B are possible causes, some of those motor switches need a hard file to get clean. I learned that recently when everything looked correct and I was at a loss. Your bonus issue with the lights is just going to be a minor adjust/clean on the bonus relay I think--can't remember which that is but I had same issue a year or so ago.

Maybe you need to back up and describe what happens at startup? Any relays activating/sticking in that shouldn't?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

When the 5 star rollovers are all lit, and the green lights in the mid-playfield lane light up, they immediately turn off and the 2x bonus gets lit. This happens without actuating the switch in that lane.

After checking the point relays in the head, this is probably where you should check next.

Quoted from brandsilence:

When the star rollovers are triggered, there I a loud buzzing under the playfield. Like a joy buzzer. This wasn't happening before.

Check these next! Very common problem, especially after cleaning the playfield. Look for 1 that appears to be partially actuated. The playfield cut-out may have some dried up wax obstructing the rollover. Check 'em all thoroughly while you're under there.

Like Wickerman said, don't panic. Your symptoms are very common, and likely the 1 simple problem you find will probably take care of everything..........

#8 3 years ago

Thanks, everyone. I don't think i'm going good to get the time tonight to fix it, but by tomorrow I should be able to go through the parts discussed above.

Don't know what I would do without all your help and encouragement!

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Are any of the point relays locked on? (like M, N, L in the backbox). Is a chime plunger stuck on as well? If a point relay is stuck on solid, then it won't score (and the coils will make a humming sound and heat up).

Checked the point relays out and they were all good. I really wish that would have been the issue.

Is my next best step is to pull the score motor out and file all the contacts adjust anything that needs adjusting? I looked everything over after getting input from oldpins, and nothing seems to be stuck, but i'm at a loss for where to look next.

#10 3 years ago

Hi brandsilence
NEVER work on the Score-Motor UNLESS You KNOW "the problem is on the Score-Motor" !

I do have a "Surf Champ". I refer to Your (post-1) picture -> I let the "Spinning Target as is (for a while), the "Rollovers" You have encircled: These give "500 Points but NO Bonus" - the "D-500-Point-Relay" shall pull. In the schema it is drawn D-8 / E-8.
Also in that circuitry (for the D-Relay) is the "Score-Motor-Switch-1-C" - with wires "Blue-Black" and "Red-White" soldered-on (Score-Motor-Switch is "Normally-Closed").
Please look and report: Does "D-500-Point-Relay" pull ? (when You close a "Rollover").

You may have a look at Score-Motor-Switch-Stack-1: One Switch wants to close and four switches want to open (I guess so). The Switch for the "E-500-Point-and-add-Bonus-Relay" is also SCM-1C with wires "Orange-Black" and "Red-White". Please: Look at / maybe cleen the switch on the Score-Motor - but do not take-apart the Score-Motor (yet). Greetings Rolf

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Look at / maybe cleen the switch on the Score-Motor - but do not take-apart the Score-Motor

Yep, I don't think it is likely in the score motor either. I think you need to track down that bonus issue and the other one goes away.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

pull the score motor out

No. If the issue is in the score motor, no pulling...use a hard file on those big contacts if others think that is a cause. If you start randomly messing with motor you could screw that thing up big time. You need to know exactly what you are looking for in the motor and do nothing else.

#13 3 years ago

If you manually activate the C or D relays directly, do they score?

#14 3 years ago

Make sure the jones plugs are clean and seated properly...and all of them connected!

#15 3 years ago

Thanks again. Trust me, I have zero desire to mess with the score motor (plus I don't think it's the problem). I'll spend some time working through your suggestions over the next few days and report back.

3 weeks later
#16 3 years ago

The issue went away by itself for a couple of weeks and now it's back again, so tonight I set out to troubleshoot.

If I manually activate c or d relays they score.

I went through all the playfield switches again and the relays in the cabinet and adjusted a couple of things. Then everything started working. Then I closed it all up and pushed it back into the line-up and everything stopped working

I will look at the bonus unit next. There appears to be another correlation where the add bonus and extra bonus when lit doesn't add two bonuses when lit while these switches don't respond.

What should I be looking for on the bonus unit, and what typically needs to be clean. All the switches seem right.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

If I manually activate c or d relays they score.

The simplest circuit is for the C relay. It needs the Spin Target switch to close, and also needs a switch at motor 1C to be closed (which is normally closed anyway, when the score motor is at the home position).

If the scoring works when you manually activate C, then the problem has to be in the path to activate C.

The switch at score motor 1C would be the most likely suspect, but there's also going to be a Jones plug in the path, so that connection is a possibility as well.

I suspect if you can determine where the open is for the path to the Spin relay, it's a common cause for the others.

Also check if the score motor is overshooting or undershooting reaching home on its 1/3 rev. That could leave those normally closed motor switches open enough to cause problems.

#18 3 years ago

Recently I had an issue onmy Top Score. Whenever a rollover was hit, it would score a bonus even though some rollover targets were not lit for a bonus. They still scored bonuses. I examined the solder tabs on the relays and found one on the relay that controls the bonus that was bent enough to make contact with the adjacent terminal. Straightened it and it was fixed. I suggest you examine every wire coming out of every relay and straighten any kinked wires and tabs.

2 months later
#19 3 years ago

Back again to say thanks!

It was indeed the blue-black switch on motor 1C. I had tested/adjusted/filed this previously but because i wasn't reading the schematic correctly I thought 1C was testing ok in other scenarios. Fast forward to tonight and i ran through everything else it could have been and it all tested well. As i turned back my attention to 1C I was using a stick to manually open switches on it to make sure I was understanding everything correctly. Near the end of my frustration i used the stick to press the switches closed and like magic it was working every time. Adjusted the leaf and cleaned and filed the contacts again and all of the 5 switches are now running like clockwork.

I can't thank everyone enough for your help.

#20 3 years ago

Excellent.

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