(Topic ID: 252538)

4k virtual pinball - it looks SO good

By toyotaboy

4 years ago


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  • 55 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by fuseholder
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Whenever I try these VR setups at shows, there's noticeable lag in flipper response. Even the new ones being sold by vendors have this problem. Has this been overcome on any platforms? Is it because these are using second-rate hardware? Is this still a problem with custom high-end systems?

    They could install better GPUs and better 4k monitors with higher refresh rates (144hz), but they're very expensive. That could get the screen refresh a lot higher and make the game visually appear smoother. However, depending on the software there might be hard limits to how often the game can update the screen per second. Many video games tend to lock to 30 or 60 frames per second for performance and visual reasons. Some games do have higher caps like 90 or 120 FPS or even unlimited. No frame cap would then be able to get input lag down to 1/144 of a second (the software is running at the same rate that the monitor refreshes), which is a hair under 7 milliseconds. I think someone did some tests here before and found flipper input lag on a WPC to be around 2-4.5 ms

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    It'd be more interesting to know what the lag on the simulations are. The FPS analysis makes sense, and I'm guessing these are mostly running at 60fps, but I'm skeptical they are responding by the next frame. If it were, that would be ~17ms. Likely it's 2 or more frames, which puts it in 30+ ms range. An order of magnitude slower than the real thing, which is why it's so noticeable.
    Has anyone built something that gets 144fps? I guess you need substantially more expensive monitors then, which the pre-made commercial ones likely don't use. I suspect there's more in the software simulation that prevents next-frame response, and even on those high-end systems, the 7ms theoretical reaction isn't actually achieved. But would love to hear subjective opinion if anyone has such a setup.

    It would be interesting if they tackle the same issue that some video game emulators have started to utilize. The games were designed around CRT providing essentially minimal lag and on HDTVs several frames of lag are introduced. To combat that, the emulator is basically "rolling back" the emulation by using multiple save states. The game will output to the TV, detects an input, rolls the software back a few frames by using the save states, inserts the input command where it "should be", and then outputs that to the TV and begins to refill the buffer. It happens so fast, you don't notice it doing anything but it substantially cuts down on the input lag. The problem is it takes a lot of computational overhead to make it all feel seamless.

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    correct, and im not arguing that point. REAL pinball is better, but virtual is getting good.
    another example, theres people that are tweaking GTA to look more real (extra detail, higher resolution). lots of videos on youtube if you search 4k gta. IMO its too shiny, and the higher detail ends up making the physics look worse.. but the original programmers never intended for someone to tweak it but perhaps its a glimpse at GTA 6 which might have even better physics to match the new detail.

    Most of those mods are usually modified shader files which can make the lighting and shadows look more realistic (by making fewer approximations in the math). The texture quality, polygonal count, etc are all the same.

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