A step in the right direction but still gives off the "flat" feeling. I bet if whatever that xbox motion hack is called was used it would be mind blowing.

now try those same tables in VR and now you're talking. That's really incredible since it addresses the 2d look.

Ball physics continues to bring it down though but some are much better than others.

It looks good but the flat look / feeling, physics being off, and everything being computer simulated (mechs, devices, the playfield, etc) still don't compare to real pinball. I built a VR pinball cabinet (front end of a pin) and even with an Oculus Rift VR headset it still doesn't compare to real world pinball. Now I blame that partially on the current headsets (4k isn't enough due to how close your eyes are to the screen) and there being pretty much 0 real world pins replicated for VR.

In the end though, nothing will look better then the display we all already have, our eyes lol.

I don't get it. My games have infinite resolution. Also they don't give me eye strain.

It would be really cool if they implemented dimpling and clearcoat pooling/chipping effects that showed up over time. Then we'd have a whole new dimension of playfield issue threads. Strap on your seatbelt!

Holy crap. That detail is next level. The textures on the play card and skirt look like video of a real machine. I really need to try one of these in person. I only have room for one pin and that likely won't change any time soon. Might be a viable solution for my situation.

Looks incredible to be honest. Now light effects can’t be the same, moreover for GI. For me, looking at a screen is hard for the eyes after some time and I live my young year nostalgia with the real thing. I do have pinball arcade on my ipad though but it’s not the same.

Wow they've even found a way to make 4K pinstadiums to light the thing up like shit

puke (resized).jpg

Oh Christ, now you’ve done it. Pinstadium guy is gonna be talking to himself In his thread now for the next two weeks. Weirdly, his confusing digital robots actually make a little more sense in a VR machine then a real one.....

Virtual pinball is garbage. I was faked out by youtube videos and built a table. It just feels shitty compared to real pinball no matter how high the resolution. I sigh when I see threads like this because another sucker is going to be tricked into investing a few thousand into one of these disappointment machines like I was.

And you get none of the sensation of a physical machine with seemingly random ball play. What's your point? Would you say a motorcycle is a good substitute for a horse? Important for people who live in apartments with limited room.

Just curious - have you ever played a virtual pinball?

This 100%. Virtual dont play anything like a real table.
Only good for learning rule sets.

There should be no lag if you build properly. 4k monitor NOT a tv and a strong enough gpu and you're set.

Virtual is a great alternative. Doesn't replace but compliments simple as that

I think it's fun to play virtual pinball on a tablet or phone on the go but yeah the whole full size table stuff does seem like a waste of money and space in my opinion. The people I know that have had one were always tweaking it and frustrated with it. I've seen multiple full size virtual pinball ads on here over the years and a majority of the sellers are selling it to buy a real pin...

Overall I think virtual pinball is cool, I just don't want to invest a lot of money into it. I'm still excited to see where VR pinball takes us but table development in that space seems to have stalled. A huge positive from virtual pinball is that it has made real pinball machines only more popular.

haha, You guys are crazy for all the flack you give vPins! After I picked up my vPin I seem to play that more often than my real ones. With the hundreds of tables, DOF, SSF, PuP Packs, customization, and all the color patches/pallets you just can't beat it. They are the absolute best bang for your buck and not to mention only take up the space of one machine

I once built a vp cab,
It was pretty cool but nothing compared to real pinball.
Yes it can be fun, yes its looking better each new version, yes physics are getting better
But its always a little off imo.

But i must confess i am to ocd for it, i kept changing settings per table and trying to get that real ball feeling
I was putting so mutch time in tweaking testing, and then feeling mweeehhh
And some tables are better then other.
Future pinball had some cool features but visual pinball is mutch better.

You better start with a monster power pc if you ever want to build one.
Also tv or monitor screen lag can be a bitch.

Virtual pinball is a lot like a woman with implants, fun to look at, but feel all wrong. Not to mention a box of lies....

agree, especially on judging current vpx builds, because they played pinball arcade or fx2 in the past. no comparison
..

Virtual Pinball keeps getting better. But you need a really good setup to realize how good it can be today.
IMO most opinions of how bad it is are based on playing an older or non-optimal setup - and the fact that many people won't be happy with something that's not 100%. If I can have 200 Machines that are 90% as good as the real thing in the space of 1 game, that's a big win for me.

Virtual pinball is getting closer and closer to the real thing.

Gonna be awesome when they finally sort out 3d and physicality. Will be funny to see all the old men defending their hobby to the bitter end!

I'm a huge proponent of VP and built the best possible out there. I also own a real Tron pinball machine

The VPX representation is DEF not identical to the physics of my real tron.

Yes it feels and plays similar and yes you can bank but identical? Def, def not.

so are you saying real tron machines play identical??

look good, terrible to play.

Whenever I try these VR setups at shows, there's noticeable lag in flipper response. Even the new ones being sold by vendors have this problem. Is it because these are using second-rate hardware? Is this still a problem with custom high-end systems? Has this been overcome on any platforms?

They could install better GPUs and better 4k monitors with higher refresh rates (144hz), but they're very expensive. That could get the screen refresh a lot higher and make the game visually appear smoother. However, depending on the software there might be hard limits to how often the game can update the screen per second. Many video games tend to lock to 30 or 60 frames per second for performance and visual reasons. Some games do have higher caps like 90 or 120 FPS or even unlimited. No frame cap would then be able to get input lag down to 1/144 of a second (the software is running at the same rate that the monitor refreshes), which is a hair under 7 milliseconds. I think someone did some tests here before and found flipper input lag on a WPC to be around 2-4.5 ms

Virtual is never the real thing by definition. No need to defend anything that is real imo.

yeah all of that extra stuff is just that, extra stuff. I think TerryRed is an incredible talent.

It's def a nice to have but just keeping it real. You're a collector. If you really want a tron, I would buy the tron.

VP for me is perfect to play and experience those games that I wouldn't buy but still enjoy playing.

yes - it's not built properly, trying to cut costs. There should really no longer be noticeable lag but that depends on how it's built.

It'd be more interesting to know what the lag on the simulations are. The FPS analysis makes sense, and I'm guessing these are mostly running at 60fps, but I'm skeptical they are responding by the next frame. If it were, that would be ~17ms. Likely it's 2 or more frames, which puts it in 30+ ms range. An order of magnitude slower than the real thing, which is why it's so noticeable.

Has anyone built something that gets 144fps? I guess you need substantially more expensive monitors then, which the pre-made commercial ones likely don't use. I suspect there's more in the software simulation that prevents next-frame response, and even on those high-end systems, the 7ms theoretical reaction isn't actually achieved. But would love to hear subjective opinion if anyone has such a setup.

Expect it will never be real. Pinball in so popular because it's a physical game that exists in the real world. Virtual pinball can get to 16k resolutions with depth effects, etc and yet it will always just be a simulation. Also, physics in a game will never match those in the real world.

Some super virtual pinball fans act like VP will be the end of real pinball and that is complete BS. The latest car racing video games look incredible but that doesn't stop people from buying the actual cars in those games. In the end nothing beats the real thing.

Personally I think the best immersive virtual pinball experience today for the price is an Oculus Quest with Pinball FX2 VR. No PC required, no giant cabinet, much more immersive then 2D VP, 3D depth perception, etc. Price $400 for the headset, $15 for the game (plus any additional tables).

Also, Oculus is releasing an update to allow a Quest to connect to a PC to play any PC VR game. Theres also a ton of other non pinball VR games to be played on the thing.

It would be interesting if they tackle the same issue that some video game emulators have started to utilize. The games were designed around CRT providing essentially minimal lag and on HDTVs several frames of lag are introduced. To combat that, the emulator is basically "rolling back" the emulation by using multiple save states. The game will output to the TV, detects an input, rolls the software back a few frames by using the save states, inserts the input command where it "should be", and then outputs that to the TV and begins to refill the buffer. It happens so fast, you don't notice it doing anything but it substantially cuts down on the input lag. The problem is it takes a lot of computational overhead to make it all feel seamless.

Most of those mods are usually modified shader files which can make the lighting and shadows look more realistic (by making fewer approximations in the math). The texture quality, polygonal count, etc are all the same.

Are slide saves legal tho?

Shoot, with some basic coding skills you can turn a button into a save button to where when you press it the game puts a wall over the outlanes I used to do that when I was play testing games I was building. Wanted to test a ramp, build a wall and make it colidable with my magnasave button.

VP has it's place and is good at what it's there to be, a fun video game. If you go into it thinking that it's going to replace the real thing then you will be extremely disappointed.

I used to love VP and became an author. After spending 100's of hours making table after table I got burnt out and now my cab just sits in the corner of my office collecting dust. Heck, I recently pulled the computer out of it to make a dedicated streaming PC.

I've debated selling the shell (it's got all the bells and whistles) but not sure if I could actually do it though

Stop trying to make VP happen.

It's a novelty at 480p. It's a novelty at 4K. It's a novelty at 16K.

It's nothing most pinball players/collectors want to play beyond a few flips at a pinball show, and there's literally no working pinball flipper game on Earth that wouldn't be more worthy of a precious slot in anybody's collection. It's a cool novelty on your PC or phone but doesn't work in a full-size pinball bank.

I disagree regarding the precious slot 100%. That is the primary reason for a VP machine. 1 slot for 200 (or more) virtual games that there is no way I could acquire all of those real games, is better to me than 1 more real pinball. If I only had 5 games or so, I would feel differently - but at a relatively large collection, I've got plenty of real games (but I still want more LOL) - so the VP fills that gap great at the current VP quality level. Especially for EM's and Solid States which are hard for me to justify a slot in my collection for.

Example: I really enjoy WH2O, JunkYard, EATPM, Taxi, Diner and a handful of EM's (just to name a few). But I know that these games are not "worthy" to replace any of the other games in my collection. But with 1 slot for a VPin, I can play all of these anytime I want - even if the experience is slightly diminished, as long as it's still fun, and it is LOL.

.

Williams Toledo > 4K VP!

I think VP is cool ....to play stuff you'll never likely ever get to play in real life.
The argument of virtual sex VS real sex though.... if you're choosing the former instead of the ladder you need a new partner ; )
I've seen soooooo many stories of people spending $4k plus to build one and eventually they sold it. Theyre fun, but you just can't compete with the real world.
But back tot what the OPs point is... yes VP has come a very long way and has indeed gotten much much better.... you are correct!

Well, yes. The woman on the left is prob a stuck up biotch. The one on the Right would treat me like a god.

Substance my friend, much like the virtual pinball debate.

Ah the tired old debate continues. What is certain, more people play virtual pinball than real pinball, it's instantly accessable to anyone anywhere in the world and it can be played competitively online.

Pinball is pinball, whether it's real or virtual has no relevence. The more people that play and enjoy pinball the better.

It's not an elite club for high earning middle aged men, it's for EVERYONE.