(Topic ID: 281026)

4k 120 Hz Virtual Pinball ACDC

By Jonosborne

11 months ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Jonosborne
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 months ago

Here's some more 4k 120 hz multiball action with the RTX 3090 and the Asus Rog Strix XG438Q. Let me know what you guys think about virtual pinball. Enjoy!

#2 11 months ago

I didn’t expect crickets at an ACDC show!

#3 11 months ago

It's your third thread on the same exact thing. Why not start a twitch account and stream?

#4 11 months ago
Quoted from Jonosborne:

Let me know what you guys think about virtual pinball.

Ok. Virtual pinball sucks and isn't pinball.

#5 11 months ago

I've never played a vp, but have to admit it looks pretty good.

#6 11 months ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

It's your third thread on the same exact thing. Why not start a twitch account and stream?

jehovah_vpinball copy (resized).jpg
#7 11 months ago

Wow, some serious hardware in that. Nice work, it looks really good.

I plan to build a controller over the winter. I have swivel monitor mounts, I plan to just put one in portrait and jam at my desk when I'm in the mood. I also have VR. I've only just tested a couple of machines, but that actually seems to work pretty well.

#8 11 months ago

Because then you would have nothing to complain about? Seriously though, this post is just to help inform others about virtual pinball. We all hate it. We all know why. But it can be better than we think. That’s all.

Quoted from fattdirk:

It's your third thread on the same exact thing. Why not start a twitch account and stream?

#9 11 months ago

Haha I used to hate it too. It usually sucks!

Quoted from Yoko2una:

Ok. Virtual pinball sucks and isn't pinball.

#10 11 months ago

That’s a great idea for a conversion setup! You’ll have to share some pics when you finish it.

Quoted from Deaconblooze:

Wow, some serious hardware in that. Nice work, it looks really good.
I plan to build a controller over the winter. I have swivel monitor mounts, I plan to just put one in portrait and jam at my desk when I'm in the mood. I also have VR. I've only just tested a couple of machines, but that actually seems to work pretty well.

#11 11 months ago

I wish I could show this to all of you guys to decide for yourself if virtual pinball can be better than what we’ve all experienced. I think a lot of people are bitter and for good reason.

Quoted from Hayfarmer:

I've never played a vp, but have to admit it looks pretty good.

#12 11 months ago

Looks amazing in video form. But I feel like the loss of proper perspective/depth when viewed in person would be too much to overcome. Maybe more modern VR puts it over the top here?

(I played a VR setup at expo around 5 years ago and it was neat, but too much of a screen door effect and the physics were pretty poor. Looks like your setup greatly improves upon the physics.)

#13 11 months ago
Quoted from Jonosborne:

Here's some more 4k 120 hz multiball action with the RTX 3090 and the Asus Rog Strix XG438Q. Let me know what you guys think about virtual pinball. Enjoy!

Dude, maybe just add on to your existing thread(s)!

#14 11 months ago

That's some good constructive criticism. If you decide to show more how about Indiana Jones, Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness. All 3 have beautiful VPX versions with lots of 3d. I play them alot when I am jonesing for some W/B and they sure are pretty.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Dude, maybe just add on to your existing thread(s)!

#15 11 months ago
Quoted from Jonosborne:

I wish I could show this to all of you guys to decide for yourself if virtual pinball can be better than what we’ve all experienced. I think a lot of people are bitter and for good reason.

I think that's true, it's only getting better. People have even done a good job of adding some tactile feel with coils and such. It's in a completely different place than it was even a couple of years ago.

Is there a time when virtual pinball can replace the real thing? I'm not comfortable giving a definitive 'no' anymore. I think Stern has been pretty smart to release some tables in virtual platforms. I think they (or other manufacturers) should really consider moving more toward the video game space, maybe even virtual cabinets (or licensing to some already in that space).

Quoted from joetechbob:

Maybe more modern VR puts it over the top here?

(I played a VR setup at expo around 5 years ago and it was neat, but too much of a screen door effect and the physics were pretty poor. Looks like your setup greatly improves upon the physics.)

That was my first real interaction with consumer VR. I remember putting on the headset and was pretty blown away at how good it looked. Funny enough, I nearly fell on my face when I tried to put my weight on the front of the (virtual) machine.

I believe that was still a DK2 at that point. The Rift, which is now pretty old tech, looked quite a bit better. The quest 2, which say what you will about the facebook requirement, looks even better. It also removes the requirement of a PC for some titles, one of those being Pinball Fx2. While that platform doesn't currently offer 'real' titles, it does have some pretty cool games. I hope to see Pinball Arcade (stern) get added to that list, but that is available if you have a gaming PC. VPX is also available in some tables, and in my brief test exceeded my expectations. It does require some more fiddling, so I need to set aside some time to really set that up.

I've owned VR for quite a while, and the screen door effect is basically gone now. It's come a long way in a relatively short time. I think progress will be accelerated after the success of the quest2.

#16 11 months ago

VR with full mechanical force feedback and tactile exciters is the beat way to play. That loss of depth is gone at that point and it can be very immersive, depending on your setup. I am supersampling like crazy with the Rift S, but it is certainly limited in how far it can be pushed before it shows its limitations. The upcoming HP Reverb G2 will be a serious game-changer in this regard. Unfortunately physics can’t be translated via video but the overall response and feel is quite convincing!

Quoted from joetechbob:

Looks amazing in video form. But I feel like the loss of proper perspective/depth when viewed in person would be too much to overcome. Maybe more modern VR puts it over the top here?
(I played a VR setup at expo around 5 years ago and it was neat, but too much of a screen door effect and the physics were pretty poor. Looks like your setup greatly improves upon the physics.)

#17 11 months ago

Here is Attack From Mars (and also the reason why sharing them on the same thread does not help, as you don’t even know I’ve already done a video on it!

Quoted from luvthatapex2:

That's some good constructive criticism. If you decide to show more how about Indiana Jones, Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness. All 3 have beautiful VPX versions with lots of 3d. I play them alot when I am jonesing for some W/B and they sure are pretty.

#18 11 months ago

The mechanical force feedback is a key element in immersion. Without that you just have sounds coming from your backglass and the experience is quite flat. I use my full size v-pun for VR so it still retains the weight of a real machine (this is also important). People often chop down their full size cabs to make them VR only, but I think this is a terrible idea in most cases, as it takes out half the fun and half the variety in how you play!

Quoted from Deaconblooze:

I think that's true, it's only getting better. People have even done a good job of adding some tactile feel with coils and such. It's in a completely different place than it was even a couple of years ago.
Is there a time when virtual pinball can replace the real thing? I'm not comfortable giving a definitive 'no' anymore. I think Stern has been pretty smart to release some tables in virtual platforms. I think they (or other manufacturers) should really consider moving more toward the video game space, maybe even virtual cabinets (or licensing to some already in that space).

That was my first real interaction with consumer VR. I remember putting on the headset and was pretty blown away at how good it looked. Funny enough, I nearly fell on my face when I tried to put my weight on the front of the (virtual) machine.
I believe that was still a DK2 at that point. The Rift, which is now pretty old tech, looked quite a bit better. The quest 2, which say what you will about the facebook requirement, looks even better. It also removes the requirement of a PC for some titles, one of those being Pinball Fx2. While that platform doesn't currently offer 'real' titles, it does have some pretty cool games. I hope to see Pinball Arcade (stern) get added to that list, but that is available if you have a gaming PC. VPX is also available in some tables, and in my brief test exceeded my expectations. It does require some more fiddling, so I need to set aside some time to really set that up.
I've owned VR for quite a while, and the screen door effect is basically gone now. It's come a long way in a relatively short time. I think progress will be accelerated after the success of the quest2.

#19 11 months ago

Yeah, I've thought about what I can do to mimic the weight of a real machine within just a controller. I think a dumbbell or something set into the bottom of the controller box might be the easiest (though not the most elegant) solution.

-1
#20 11 months ago

What does "4K 120hz" even mean?

#21 11 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

What does "4K 120hz" even mean?

I'll take that as a serious question. 4k is the resolution, which is 4x the resolution of a 1080p screen. 120hz is the screen's ability refresh an image. So that means that it has the ability to provide 120 (potentially different) frames per one second. Assuming your hardware is good enough to exceed that number, it means that you're seeing 120 new images in that second. That means that the gameplay would be very smooth, and any streaking or stutter should be practically non-existent.

On a less than ideal VP setup, you might actually see ball traces going across the screen due to the inability to differentiate those frames either by the screen or processing hardware. In this setup, that isn't happening.

#22 11 months ago

Thanks. I never heard of this. 1080p is about all I know of having a great pic in my home teevees.

Bought one about ten years ago and then got one five years ago as a work anniversary gift.

#23 11 months ago

There's not really a ton of reason to upgrade at the moment if you're not really into A/V. Traditional TV is still only showing in 1080, and only some streaming content is available in 4k. That also requires a pretty decent internet connection. If you opt for discs, you need a current gen game console or a pricey player to play it.

And now 8k is going to be a thing. I personally dont believe that will ever be a worthwhile upgrade in anything other than silly large screens.

#24 11 months ago

Everybody thinks that the refresh rate is about what you see but it’s actually more about what you feel. This increased responsiveness bridges the gap between playing a fake video game and forgetting it’s a screen. There are tons of other benefits as well such as more pronounced lighting, better fluidity of the balls in multiball (when performance hits can be demandingly apparent) and increased punch for mechanical and tactile feedback as the mechanisms fire much more “in-time” with the on-screen events. Each of these items increases the level of realism of the experience that much more. There are a lot of people who are clueless when it comes to virtual pinball, but I was just as clueless as the rest until I took the time and effort to push the boundaries of the digital realm even further.

Quoted from Deaconblooze:

I'll take that as a serious question. 4k is the resolution, which is 4x the resolution of a 1080p screen. 120hz is the screen's ability refresh an image. So that means that it has the ability to provide 120 (potentially different) frames per one second. Assuming your hardware is good enough to exceed that number, it means that you're seeing 120 new images in that second. That means that the gameplay would be very smooth, and any streaking or stutter should be practically non-existent.
On a less than ideal VP setup, you might actually see ball traces going across the screen due to the inability to differentiate those frames either by the screen or processing hardware. In this setup, that isn't happening.

#25 11 months ago
Quoted from Jonosborne:

Here is Attack From Mars (and also the reason why sharing them on the same thread does not help, as you don’t even know I’ve already done a video on it!

I don't mean to come across as rude but I recommend keeping them in the same thread. Change the title to "4k 120hz Pinball: Update *Game Title" and create new posts in it. That's what a lot of people do here, eventually a mod will ask to keep everything in one thread or start closing some.

#26 11 months ago

I appreciate the idea (and it’s a good one). But as soon as I do that they’ll find something new to complain about.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't mean to come across as rude but I recommend keeping them in the same thread. Change the title to "4k 120hz Pinball: Update *Game Title" and create new posts in it. That's what a lot of people do here, eventually a mod will ask to keep everything in one thread or start closing some.

#27 11 months ago

I can't add all of my mods to the VP pins - I'm out.

Seriously, I've played some nice virtual pins, and before I got into the hobby a few years ago I thought this would be the way I would go. However, it is just not the same experience and will never replace the real thing. However, this does not mean it is not a viable alternative or addition to a real pin collection for some.

#28 11 months ago

I would say a lot has changed in the past few years and what was considered a nice virtual pin back then wouldn't necessarily equate to what I would consider a nice v-pin now. The fact of the matter is there are "maybe" 20 v-pins in the entire world which I would truly consider high-end. There is a good chance you have ever seen one.

Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I can't add all of my mods to the VP pins - I'm out.
Seriously, I've played some nice virtual pins, and before I got into the hobby a few years ago I thought this would be the way I would go. However, it is just not the same experience and will never replace the real thing. However, this does not mean it is not a viable alternative or addition to a real pin collection for some.

#29 11 months ago

I'm enjoying seeing what's out there, and understand that there are so very few people who have put the time and effort into the build... but I am starting to wonder - what's the point? Where are we going with this?

1 week later
#30 11 months ago

Looking into one of these with 4k monitor and force feedback, really only want to load real emulated tables. Would you have a list of which ones are the closest to the real deal? Not wanting to load up 4 of each table to find the best one. Thanks

#31 11 months ago

That's an interesting question. I have seen 4K tables that look wonderful but 1080P tables that play better than their 4k version that another author created.
There are dozens of authors currently and over the years. Its a hobby so they come and they go. Some stick around for years.

Example: Attack from Mars. There are maybe 15 versions of this table over the years with improvements each time, and maybe 5 versions of this table in VPX and at least 2 in 4K. Many prefer the gk5 version but I have tried them all and prefer the recent JP salas 3.0 version. Its not 4k but plays better and feels more like AFM to me. Personally there are few authors like JP that just 'get it' and I always prefer their tables.

Best to just try the most recent tables for yourself and see what you like. They don't cost anything, so why not? Plus you can post valuable feedback on the forums and most times things are improved.

Quoted from rwmech5:

Looking into one of these with 4k monitor and force feedback, really only want to load real emulated tables. Would you have a list of which ones are the closest to the real deal? Not wanting to load up 4 of each table to find the best one. Thanks

#32 11 months ago

I find that the G5K, Flupper, JJP, Knorr, Dark , 3rd Axis, Bord, Rothbauer, Loserman76 and nFozzy tables are the most realistic. It’s important to note that most of these tables are a collaborative effort across the board with a lot of talent involved in their specific niches. There is a new power team on the block called V-Pin Workshop that is releasing some fantastic revisions. If you register on Vpinball you will be able to follow all of the newest releases. There are typically multiple releases each week and you’ll want to keep things completely up-tp-date to get the most enjoyment out of your build. Let me know if you have questions along the way and good luck with getting into a really unique hobby!

Quoted from rwmech5:

Looking into one of these with 4k monitor and force feedback, really only want to load real emulated tables. Would you have a list of which ones are the closest to the real deal? Not wanting to load up 4 of each table to find the best one. Thanks

2 months later
#33 8 months ago
Quoted from Jonosborne:

Here's some more 4k 120 hz multiball action with the RTX 3090 and the Asus Rog Strix XG438Q. Let me know what you guys think about virtual pinball. Enjoy!

Looks awesome! Last summer, I bought a used VPCabs cabinet (non-DOF) originally built in 2013/14, and have been slowly upgrading hardware. So far, I've added:

EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB GDDR5X Graphics Card
Vizio 40" V-Series LED 4K UHD TV
Samsung SSD 850 EVO 2TB
EVGA Supernova 750W P2 80 Platinum Power Supply
Intel Core i7-4790K Devil’s Canyon 4.0 GHz Quad-Core Processor
Timetec Hynix IC 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-10600 Memory

While gameplay has definitely been enhanced by 4K, and I can now finally run PUP packs, I'm still encountering stutter issues when trying to record videos via OSB. Everything up to this point has been limited to what's compatible with my current motherboard (ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard), so now I'm looking to future proof (and eventually add DOF) with the following upgrades.

EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 10 GB XC3 BLACK GAMING Video Card
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME SSD
Intel Core i9-10900K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor *might go with i7-10900K
Noctua NH-U9S 46.4 CPU Cooler
ASRock Z490M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
G.Skill Ripjaws V 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory *probably overkill, might go with 2 x 16 GB

The 750W PSU I currently have is the minimum for the RTX 3080, so I may need to up that as well. If you don't mind me asking, aside from the GPU and playfield monitor, what are you running for the components above? Also, any feedback on what I have earmarked (particularly if you've had any experience with M.2 SSD's) or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

2 weeks later
#34 8 months ago

I’m having a v-pin built to the specs in the thread title .

Played one recently , was blown away , and skeptical before trying . Been selling my collection anyway this last year , pulled the plug and sold the last 4 this week

At the spending price of one stern pro , ( eu pricing) it’s a lot of fun , and over 100k Left in pocket from clearing out 14 high end games , and space , peace of mind and what not

And no, it’s not a real pinball machine , but it will replace them , and I get my addiction fix

#35 8 months ago

Virtual pinball is a video game. It can be fun. I enjoy some of the tables very much but it isn't pinball.

#36 8 months ago

It’s not designed to be real pinball. But if done right it can be pretty damn close. 99% of the people who have tried it are biased on its ability to be high-end because they played a virtual machine that they think is considered high-end when in actuality it is nowhere close. You have to put 4-5k in PARTS into a v-pin to get it anywhere close to being convincing.

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