(Topic ID: 316061)

44 or 47 mini bulbs

By popperette

74 days ago


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  • 38 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 57 days ago by xsvtoys
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    Topic poll

    “44 or 47 mini bulbs”

    • 44 bulbs 8 votes
      21%
    • 47 bulbs 22 votes
      56%
    • Led bulbs 9 votes
      23%

    (39 votes)

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    #1 74 days ago

    I’m working on a 1953 Gottlieb Guys Dolls pinball machine and I am at the part where I am replacing the bulbs.

    I am wondering what bulbs should I use. I don’t like leds so I would like to use the miniature bayonet incandescent bulbs. The 44’s are .25 amps and the 47’s are .15 amps. My backglass is in very nice shape and the bulbs that were removed from it were 44’s. There is no obvious heat damage. Do I use the brighter 44’s or the less hot 47’s?

    Just curious what people usually use when they restore games.

    Thanks,
    Larry.

    #2 74 days ago

    Since it is the back glass I would use 47. On the playfield I may be tempted to use the brighter 44s at least in some spots to see gameplay better. I never put leds in older games, but yeah everyone has their own opinion in that.

    #3 74 days ago

    One vote for the 44s. They look better and I’ve never had any issues with them damaging plastics or a backglass unless they were laying directly against something over time.

    #4 74 days ago
    Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

    One vote for the 44s.

    Agree with Sea_Wolf on this--47s are the recommended choice, but the backglass has lasted 69 years with 44s and so it's hard to argue against them.

    #5 74 days ago

    I always used 47’s in my em. Had the thought though maybe one could mount a small computer type fan in the head to move air around under the glass. Might need to drill a couple holes in the light board but could be done if you really like the pop of 44’s. Obviously not original but just throwin it out there.

    #6 74 days ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Since it is the back glass I would use 47. On the playfield I may be tempted to use the brighter 44s at least in some spots to see gameplay better. I never put leds in older games, but yeah everyone has their own opinion in that.

    Ditto!

    #7 74 days ago

    I always use 47s.

    So, as is usually the case, you have so many opinions, that you just do you.

    #8 74 days ago

    I was leaning hard towards the 47 bulbs. It makes sense because of the less heat from the bulb, the less damage can be caused. But I decided to go with the 44’s. The reason being is that there was no previous heat damage. So I was wondering why? There is a descent gap between the glass and the wood section with the lights. Plus there is a space from the tip of the bulb to the edge of the wood so the bulb has a good distance from the glass.

    The only other pinball I have is a CC Jukebox and that glass is a lot closer to the bulbs. Some of the blue is peeling on the CC game.

    I’ll see what happens. Usually, I’m lucky if a game is on for over an hour in my house.

    Thank you for all your opinions and advise.

    #9 74 days ago

    I put LEDs in the backglass, always great results with the really dim 1smd’s warm white frosted. Very close look and feel to original. I have a great photo where they were all mixed and you absolutely cannot tell the difference.

    #10 74 days ago

    I could be wrong but back when these were sitting in bars, they were always on and generating heat. That’s not generally the case with home use so 44’s should be fine.

    #11 74 days ago

    My preference has been #47's because they draw less current and put less
    of a strain on the power transformer. I'll occasionally use LEDs in pop bumpers
    and near sling shots because they can take the vibration better.

    #12 74 days ago

    I agree with Budman in home use you will never have the machine on for the time they were back in the day. Use what you want it really won’t be an issue of having them long enough to cause problems.

    #13 74 days ago

    Main reason I use LEDs is so I get motivated to turn my games on more just to look at them. That and so I can have more on during get togethers.

    I generally do this for GI and I do find it makes the colors pop a bit more. No it’s not original but neither are the flipper assemblies at this point….

    #14 73 days ago

    I've always preferred 44s, well maybe 47s under light colored inserts as 44s are almost overkill there. 44s on my backglasses too but 47s would probably be 'okay' with me plus would reduce the reflection on the pf glass espec. in a dark room. I use LEDs for a few spots. But have seen no damage related to this on games I've had for 20-30 years, home use is like nuthin' unless you live in a 24-hour arcade.

    #15 73 days ago

    47s are all I use in my EMs.

    #16 73 days ago

    Similar playfields, all 47’s on the left, all 44’s on the right. 44’s are the only way to go. Even with the 10 pins lit up on the Strike Zone, the playfield is still dark.

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    1 week later
    #17 65 days ago
    Quoted from Mikala:

    Similar playfields, all 47’s on the left, all 44’s on the right. 44’s are the only way to go. Even with the 10 pins lit up on the Strike Zone, the playfield is still dark.[quoted image]

    Great comparison photo. Thanks for posting.

    #18 65 days ago

    I think using 44’s was a factor of why certain machines have score reels that have burn marks on them. The 4th player on a 4 player machine is usually the case.

    #19 64 days ago

    Same game - one with 44’s and one with 47’s.

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    #20 63 days ago

    This is the first time I remember seeing side by side photos for comparison. Seems like we have the answer.

    #21 63 days ago

    For the playfield seems like 44s are low risk in a home environment since usage will be low compared to an arcade.

    I still favor 47s or LEDs behind a fragile back glass with any sign of flaking or ink separation. Small trade off for the added insurance against degradation.

    #22 63 days ago
    Quoted from Nikrox2:

    Same game - one with 44’s and one with 47’s.
    [quoted image]

    While the 44s are certainly brighter, your comparison photo is a bit misleading. The missing backglass is allowing additional light to reflect off the playfield, and is also giving the impression of extra brightness due to the missing backglass.

    #23 63 days ago
    Quoted from jrpinball:

    While the 44s are certainly brighter, your comparison photo is a bit misleading. The missing backglass is allowing additional light to reflect off the playfield, and is also giving the impression of extra brightness due to the missing backglass.

    I was wondering if that pic could be retaken with the playfiled glass off of both and the backglass removed from the other. That would probably give a pretty good comparison.

    #24 63 days ago

    Sorry about that. Here’s some shots with and without playfield glass and backglass. Room light on and off. Not as much variation in full comparison as stated. But noticeable in person

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    #25 62 days ago
    Quoted from Nikrox2:

    Sorry about that. Here’s some shots with and without playfield glass and backglass. Room light on and off. Not as much variation in full comparison as stated. But noticeable in person
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    This is a great comparison thanks.

    #26 62 days ago

    Much better. The difference in the lightbox is really apparent.
    Much brighter yes, but probably significantly more generated heat.

    #27 62 days ago
    Quoted from Nikrox2:

    Sorry about that. Here’s some shots with and without playfield glass and backglass. Room light on and off. Not as much variation in full comparison as stated. But noticeable in person
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    44s much better. The 47s in the head make the snow on the hill look yellow as opposed to white with the 44s.

    I also agree with Isochronic_Frost that the warm white LEDs look great too if you want to pay for them. I’ve got them in most of my machines now.

    #28 62 days ago
    Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

    The 47s in the head make the snow on the hill look yellow as opposed to white with the 44s.

    "Don't go where the Huskies go...and don't you eat that yellow snow! ..."

    #29 62 days ago
    Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

    The 47s in the head make the snow on the hill look yellow as opposed to white with the 44s.

    I think some of that is because of the lighting in the room. Look at the ambient light on the back wall.

    #30 62 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    I think some of that is because of the lighting in the room. Look at the ambient light on the back wall.

    You’re exactly right. You can tell by the 2 frames around the backglass.

    Still does look dim a bit compared overall to the game on the right.

    #31 62 days ago

    Surprised nobody's given the armchair math angle yet. As stated in the original post, 47's draw 0.15A compared to the 0.25A of 44's. This holds true for all of the specs: 47's draw 60% of the power and give 60% of the light and heat that 44's do. Or said another way, 44's are 1.67 times hotter and brighter. It gets weird when you replace a lot ( > ~25), as then you start getting more lumens per watt, so the 44's slowly pull away in luminous efficiency from 1 to 1 with 47's up to 1.2to1 at ~40 bulbs (basically twice as bright, but still 1.67 times the heat and power).

    ...so, if you're replacing an entire backglass and playfield and the 1.67x heat and power isn't a concern, you'll get a more efficiently bright game with 44's.

    ...or you can switch to LED's for an improvement in every metric, but a loss in authentic aesthetic.

    #32 62 days ago

    I use 47s across the board but I opt for LEDs behind a new digital backglass as the light transmission is better.

    #33 62 days ago
    Quoted from Wylte:

    ...so, if you're replacing an entire backglass and playfield and the 1.67x heat and power isn't a concern,

    And that's the whole point- to what extent is the that really a concern to the home user? I’ve been on Pinside 2 1/2 years and although it is said over and over how the 47s put less strain on an aging system (like a 1960s EM) I haven’t seen any numbers or explanation. Are we talking about the old transformer? Surely it can handle the 44s?

    What is the frailty everyone is so worried about?

    #34 62 days ago
    Quoted from undrdog:

    And that's the whole point- to what extent is the that really a concern to the home user? I’ve been on Pinside 2 1/2 years and although it is said over and over how the 47s put less strain on an aging system (like a 1960s EM) I haven’t seen any numbers or explanation. Are we talking about the old transformer? Surely it can handle the 44s?
    What is the frailty everyone is so worried about?

    Basically everyone is making directional statements. Less heat = less heat cycling/risk of slow degradation of glass from expansion and contraction, warping plastics etc. Less current = less risk of janky old connectors with oxidized pins building up heat and degrading. If there’s lower current draw I supposed the transformer would run cooler, but those seem to be sized with large margins.

    Run whatever you feel is best. If there’s an issue do something different.

    #35 61 days ago

    Come on guys, be true alpha males and use 44s
    Unless you like soy milk with those 47s

    #36 61 days ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Come on guys, be true alpha males and use 44s
    Unless you like soy milk with those 47s

    I’m converting all mine to 44s, 43s whatever it takes.

    #37 61 days ago
    Quoted from jgreene:

    Less current = less risk of janky old connectors with oxidized pins building up heat and degrading

    On a SS game yeh, but not something of concern on an EM anyway.

    #38 57 days ago
    Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

    I’m converting all mine to 44s, 43s whatever it takes.

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