If a coil is sticking on then either the switch associated with it is sticking on and/or an EOS switch isn't working properly to kill to power to the associated relay/coil.

Do you have a schematic?

If it is resetting then we know the coil works. Reset the game and see what happens. Then manually score a 10 point target and tell us what happens with the 10 point relay and the coil on the score reel.

Can you post the segment that shows the path of the ten point relay?

If after you start the game it immediately locks on, you're probably on the right track. Locked on switch, and since you said the buzzing you heard is under the p/f, even more probably.

Obviously, pull the ring off the skirt and see if the buzzing stops. Then see if other 10 point switches score correctly.

If it didn't toast the bumper coil, even better.

It would definitely cause the score reel coil plunger to be hot.

I also just wanted to let you know that those old Williams reverse wedgeheads just totally suck and aren't worth your time or effort to fix.

I'd be interested in taking it off your hands to ease your burden here.

as I said before, I've been messing with these games for over 40 years, and have never had a deal like that fall in my lap. And you just absolutely waltz into one. Completely and totally sucks. I used to own a surf champ, great game.

So you removed the ring and something is still locking up underneath the playfield? Can you find what it is?

There is definitely an EOS switch on the score reel that is associated with the 10 point relay.

You've got a stuck switch somewhere. I'm positive of that. Where is the issue.

Stuck scoring switch is the first place I would look.

I'm not as familiar with the Williams games but I would look at the switch set up on 10's score relay also. In a Gottlieb game this relay can hold itself on if not set up correctly.

I couldn't read the schematic he posted on here really well, but from what I could see on the 10 point relay, it has a lock in switch on the relay and there is an EOS switch involved, looked like it would be the 10-90 point drum (which is logically where it should be, just like a Gottlieb).

When you get into it, try and find where you're hearing either a locked on coil or solenoid. That's the starting point. Pull the 10s reel out and see also if there is an end of stroke switch on there-it appears from the schematic that it's a normally open switch that would close when the reel moves. On Gottliebs they're normally closed and they open to kill the circuit. There's a crease in the schematic and a stain and it's hard to see the switch state there.

It is hard to see ,but it looks like some advance relay E.O.S are involved with some other contacts that are not legible.

Maybe the O.P. can load a better scan of this area.

314571.JPG

OMG, that's like brand new. First thing i would do is make sure the wire colours are the same as the schematic. That it is wire correctly.
the bottom SW, should be open, is it?

According to the schematic, there are seven switches that will activate the 10 pt relay, and an eighth that will lock it on.

A quick test to determine if it's the 10pt relay lock-in path or a 10 pt scoring feature is to observe if the 10 pt relay activates and locks on as soon as the game is started. If it does, then it's one of the seven switches that feed the 10pt relay for scoring.

If it doesn't, then manually pressing the 10pt relay should have it hold on momentarily and step the score reel, then turn off. If manually pressing it activates it keeps it locked on, then the end of stroke (EOS) switch on the 10 pt score reel isn't changing state.

The seven switches that activate the 10pt relay are:
- switch on the 50 pt relay
- Red Advance step up unit EOS switch
- Yellow Advance step up unit EOS switch
- Two different standup switches
- switch on the 1pt relay (will be in conjunction with the 9th position switch on the 1's reel)
- make/break switch on the 'On Bumper' relay

In addition to checking the contact point ends of these seven switches, also check the back tabs for them being bent and touching.

Can also block all seven switches with a bit of paper to see which path is the one activating the 10pt relay.

Those are the red/yellow advance relays.

What you're looking for are the red/yellow advance stepper units. There will probably be a drive arm to step the cam, and at the end of the arm will be a switch that closes when the arm is at the end of stroke.

Wow, that head looks cherry inside!

Those are likely them (see if they're labeled). On the side with the coil, look for a switch that closes when the drive arm or plunger moves to the end of its stroke.

So the Yellow Advance pulls in and stays in? That's bad. It should release after making a step. If it stays stuck on, then its EOS switch will stay stuck closed, and cause the 10pt relay to stay stuck on.

Now need to look at the schematic to see what activates the Yellow Advance step up unit itself.

Does the Yellow Advance Relay also activate and stay active? (Assuming it's what causes the Yellow Advance to step.)

Just need to keep debugging 'upstream' from each of these.

- Advance unit is stuck on, so what causes it to activate?
- If it's the advance relay, then is the relay on? If yes, then what causes the relay to activate?

check all the switches that award a Yellow advance (like the left rollover down by the left flipper) and see if any are stuck closed.

That machine looks like brand new, wow!

Did you find the problem yet? Are you sure there isn't a 10 point switch stuck somewhere?

Uhh, scoring switches on pop bumpers most definitely should NOT be normally closed. Scoring on pop bumpers happenes when the ball moves the skirt, which moves the spoon switch to close it, which activates the bumper coil. The rod and ring assembly pulls down and the yokes on the assembly contact the scoring switch and close it.

Are you sure those switches are normally closed? On those old Williams games, the fiber yoke kept that switch open, and when the pop activated it allowed the switch to close.

The Yellow Bumper switch should be normally open. When closed, it activates the Yellow Advance Relay, which in turn steps the Yellow Advance Unit (and the 10pt relay).

So if the yellow pop bumper switch is stuck closed, then the whole sequence will wedge.

In the picture above of the 100 point relay, it sure looks to me like the bottom switch is closed. That switch should be normally open.

Second picture down, switch on the left side should be n/c when the relay is not pulled in.

You posted a picture of a relay with Yellow Advance relay to the right of it. It is the second picture posted in that particular post. It might not be part of the problem but it is definitely not adjusted correctly. Might be the red advance relay, since I can't see a label.

The relay is not engaged. It has four switches on it. The switch on the very left side is open, it should be closed. The short blade is to the left of the long blade. When the relay pulls in, the long blade will go to the right and open that switch while the other three close. The relay right next to it has the exact same setup and the left switch is closed.

The relay that I'm talking about that has what appears to be a closed switch that should be open is right below the 100 point label. I blew the picture up and there might be a micron of opening there, but I'd adjust that switch to open it up a bit. Even if it is open, it's way too close.

The bane of EMs are switches that appear to be making but aren't, and switches that don't appear to be making but are.

Yes. Adjusting switches is pretty easy to figure out. The switches always have to change state. When you manually work a relay and see that a switch isn't changing state, then you just have to figure out where it should be when the relay engages.

If the short blade is on the side that is the same as the relay will go when it engages, it should be normally open. If the short blade is on the opposite side of the way the relay will travel, it should be normally closed. Make/breaks work the same way, one side will be open and the other closed, and it will reverse when the relay engages.

That's one thing about EMs. If you were to go through every relay and switch and every single relay and switch was properly adjusted, then the game theorically should function properly. And the thing is, it only takes one, sometimes two, to really foul a game up.

I don't know that you should do that as you haven't worked on these much, but just manually working the relays and seeing what the switches do is fairly simple and straightforward. Don't go adjusting everything, just look for the ones that are obviously incorrect.

I've had similar issues and ended up fixing by cleaning the contacts in the backbox. I've also had to pay a tech locally and he found that one of my relay stacks was broken and proceeded to make it right then and there. That game had been messed with previously while yours looks cherry so I'm guessing it's in need of cleaning/adjusting. I know it's a no-no but I use an emery board. Safe bet is a business card.

On an EM, really a flexstone or 600 grit sandpaper is probably better. A business card is great for SS/DMD games due to the gold flashed contacts but on EMs, it won't work quite as well.

Are either of the Yellow or Red Advance relays stuck on?

In the video, the Yellow Advance stepper unit no longer has the plunger pulled in like it did in the picture you posted previously.

Pop bumper looks OK.

Definitely has quite the hum going.

If nothing else, can start going through each of the seven switches I listed above that activate the 10pt relay. One of them must be closed.