(Topic ID: 224906)

4 Million BC Flaking Playfield

By zacaj

5 years ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pecos
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Picked up a 4 million BC yesterday with what I thought was a really nice playfield, but when I got it home and set up I noticed some of what I'd thought were flecks of dried rubber were actually the white undercoat showing through, and bits of paints were starting to flake off. Examining the playfield this is happening throughout, mostly in the greys and greens, although some don't seem to have an issue, I can't really see any pattern to it.
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A lot of it isn't quite flaking yet but you can see from the texture that something has happened to it41126660_315262489231701_2072591624654815232_n (resized).jpg41126660_315262489231701_2072591624654815232_n (resized).jpg

Other parts seem completely fine though... I was able to novus 2 the kickback lane pretty roughly without any issue, and the usual dirt trails cleaned up very nicely.

What's the best way to handle this? I've only had one other game with flaking paint but that was due to rats, and only in two isolated places, so I just sucked it up and wiped off the flaking paint, then put a spot of mylar down. This seems pervasive enough though that I don't think spots of mylar would really work. You'd need to cover a quarter of the playfield probably, in lots of weird shapes, and I doubt the 'almost flaking' paint would look very good crushed under mylar either.

Of course the full solution is probably to wipe off all the flaking paint, clean up the ball swirls with ME, make decals, touch up, clear, etc, but I don't have the skills or tools necessary for that. Would just putting down some clear over this be useful (if I somehow could do that)? Or would the raised areas of nearly flaking paint mess with the clear?

Are there any places around that I could send this to? I don't really need a perfectly restored playfield or anything but as it is this is unplayable and I can't really think of anything I can do that won't make it dramatically worse which I'd hate to do

#2 5 years ago

The playfield is obviously very dry. If it were me I'd leave it alone and play it, but in the meantime I'd keep an eye out for another playfield and or game to upgrade to.

John

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

The playfield is obviously very dry. If it were me I'd leave it alone and play it, but in the meantime I'd keep an eye out for another playfield and or game to upgrade to.
John

It's definitely not playable as is. The balls would be coated with chips within a few games, PotC style

#4 5 years ago

The only path I would consider would be to strip it, carefully clean it where you can. Be very careful. Then shoot it with clear, and scuff it with 600 grit to take any grit or dust or whatever off, do it again and build until level. Or right after firstcoat go into a restoration mode and fix things. I done see any other way. Mylar is a poor solution and only guarantees all the art is lost/removed some day when the Mylar is pulled. If you don’t have a spray set up there is a long thread-Club discussing the use of a rattle can solution for 2PAC. Kinda depends on perceived value and interest on your end in terms of is it worth the effort. But It does look super rough and likely to get worse fast with play.

#5 5 years ago

I believe a previous owner attempted to clean it with a solvent that bubbled the paint. Or humidity is coming up from the bottom. If you cannot afford a restored playfield your best best is 2-part auto clear coat, touch up, then another layer of clear. I want a 4Million and these images are sad.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

your best best is 2-part auto clear coat, touch up, then another layer of clear.

If I could do that sorta work I definitely would, but I don't have the skill or setup necessary Plus by my understanding you usually start that by cleaning the playfield to get up the ball swirl, etc, which I don't think you could do here? So you'd end up with a slightly ugly playfield... under a nice clearcoat.

Quoted from phil-lee:

I believe a previous owner attempted to clean it with a solvent that bubbled the paint

Hadn't thought of that, hmm. Either way I guess it doesn't matter much though. I was reading HEP's 4MBC restore thread and even that one seemed to have a bit of flaking, so maybe it was some manufacturing issue that was just magnified on mine due to bad storage

Someone else recommended I just get a playfield protector, which could work, if I can keep it still well enough to not slide around and loosen more paint. Not available for this game though. I ordered a blank sheet of PET-G and will see if I can lay it down on the stripped playfield, mark all the holes, etc and then cut/drill it by hand. Will be a bit of a pain though as the side rails appear to be stapled in, not screwed

#7 5 years ago

side rails are almost always stapled and screwed in from this era... should not be a major issue to deal with, either very carefully cut a strip out so they lay in it or covert to screws only and bail on the staples.

The protector is a reasonable idea that may work well. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that they move much if at all, so I doubt it would be an issue in terms of future damage. Should greatly preserve the PF.

#8 5 years ago

That happens to lots of old games.

Sometimes they are stored in a garage, freeze, and then certain colors start to flake off.

Do not play it as is (obviously).

Your Pet-G is a good idea.

Get a couple of 12" C-clamps at HF and make sure you clamp close to each hole you drill in the Pet-G (so the debris does not get under as you work)

Larger holes can be quickly routed out with a small router bit with a guide tip to keep you in line (like a Roto-Zip)

You may have to put a really small washer under the rollover button's press washer, to give them enough clearance over the PetG

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Get a couple of 12" C-clamps at HF and make sure you clamp close to each hole you drill in the Pet-G (so the debris does not get under as you work)

Do you think that doing it on the playfield is better than marking the holes and than taking it off to drill? That's what I'd been planning.

Quoted from rufessor:

The protector is a reasonable idea that may work well. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that they move much if at all, so I doubt it would be an issue in terms of future damage. Should greatly preserve the PF.

I made one for my em black jack before (although that was laser cut from acrylic), but at the time it was recommended to leave room around all the posts to allow the protector to flex from heat, etc. So that one slides around a bit and dust gets in all the exposed edges. This time I figure I'll just make the minimum amount of cuts possible (usually under posts, etc) and just clamp it down everywhere, see how that works. There's not many lights on this playfield or anything.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Do you think that doing it on the playfield is better than marking the holes and than taking it off to drill? That's what I'd been planning.

I'd not want to keep pulling it on and off.

The saucer kick out you will have to take the mech off the bottom, then make your mark and hole saw it, but otherwise I believe everything can be routed or drilled in place (I'm sure I'm forgetting something....lol).

1 month later
#11 5 years ago

An update to this: I finally finished the protector, shopped and rebuilt the game, and got the EM kinks worked out. Played about 20 games, and I can already see more bits of paint have come off under the protector and are being ground into dust from the play. When the ball rolls over the playfield you can hear a faint crunching as the protector compresses the flaking paint. So protector seems to be a failure. Not sure how bad it will get, it might work to just let that paint come off and hope it eventually gets all the 'bad' paint off and enough survives to be presentable.

At this point the only other real option seems to be to tear it down again and go the full playfield restoration route: lock down any flat paint, wipe off any that's bumpy enough to cause an issue, and then do lots of repainting and touch ups. I did scan the playfield in with my HP scanner before starting so I could at least have some basis to go off of. I don't have any place to do clearing or painting though. Would have to investigate if there's anyone I could bring it too.

Or maybe I'll just have to sell it.

#12 5 years ago

If you were closer I would buy it, I enjoy impossible projects and the game.

#13 5 years ago

It looks like sombody tried clearcoating it. And used a paint with strong solvents that blistered the original finish.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

It looks like sombody tried clearcoating it. And used a paint with strong solvents that blistered the original finish.

No sign of anything like that

#15 5 years ago

Would a variation of the backglass saran wrap trick work on this playfield?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/backglass-advice-krylon-triple-thick

This might work to flatten the flaking. Then you would have to add multiple layers of crystal clear for good coverage. Of course, you would have to use something besides Krylon Triple Thick. I've used Krylon #1303 Crystal Clear Acrylic with good results. I have had problems with fish eyes but I think that is because I didn't use thin coats that were allowed to dry for 24 hours before applying the next coat. It sands well after drying.

I buy it at Michael's for about $9.00 less the 40-50% coupon discount, or about $5.00. You will need about two cans for a 'flat' playfield, probably more for your playfield.

Amazon has six cans for $39.99:

https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-Crystal-Acrylic-Coating-Artist/dp/B0042T3SDG/ref=sr_1_1/144-0076069-7929717

I hate to see artwork this old destroyed. I sure hope that you can find a way to save that playfield @zacaj.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

Would a variation of the backglass saran wrap trick work on this playfield?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/backglass-advice-krylon-triple-thick
This might work to flatten the flaking. Then you would have to add multiple layers of crystal clear for good coverage. Of course, you would have to use something besides Krylon Triple Thick. I've used Krylon #1303 Crystal Clear Acrylic with good results. I have had problems with fish eyes but I think that is because I didn't use thin coats that were allowed to dry for 24 hours before applying the next coat. It sands well after drying.
I buy it at Michael's for about $9.00 less the 40-50% coupon discount, or about $5.00. You will need about two cans for a 'flat' playfield, probably more for your playfield.
Amazon has six cans for $39.99:
amazon.com link »
I hate to see artwork this old destroyed. I sure hope that you can find a way to save that playfield zacaj.

Damn that just sounds scary

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Damn that just sounds scary

Yeah, never tried it myself.

I just got a Four Million B.C. and had to check the playfield, again, after reading your post. Fortunately, I don't have any of these issues.

Quoted from vid1900:

Sometimes they are stored in a garage, freeze, and then certain colors start to flake off.

We have the opposite problem here in Tucson. I bought a Royal Flush years ago that had terrible playfield ink bubbling. I think that was caused by storing it in a hot storage unit for years - very hot summers followed by cold winters. Sadly, that playfield is beyond repair, but maybe @zacaj's can be saved.

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