My two cents: as long as you're making your own models and not duplicating some unique creative effort there's no reason to not share.

It's cool that people make and sell 3D printed mods, but most of the value in them is for people without printers and know-how. The 'real' mods are the ones that take things beyond scraping a part off a print bed and popping it in a box, that's the way you protect your market, by adding more creative value.

I honestly consider a 3D printer a must have tool these days. They're just so incredibly useful in so many ways for almost anyone, but if you're into pinball that's especially true.

I get it.

But this is the world now. If your product is "a bracket" then people can make that at home. I think plenty of people will prefer the convenience of a pre-built kit still.

It was never hard to make a way to mount LEDs, even without 3D printing. I could make that out of wood if I wanted. Something where the work is done for you, it's pre-wired, and there's someone to offer support will always have some value.

It's 2020. It's not special to stick LEDs on things. I'm not trying to dunk on Dug here, at all, but if you've managed to keep a business going for 8 years that's already an accomplishment.

Try googling "pinball speaker lights" and see how many options there are. It's a generic market. That isn't an offensive statement, it's just a fact. Lots of people sell them. Lots of people package up Chinese LED strips and remotes with a markup. Anyone can buy that stuff now.

There is no reason Darscot should be made to feel guilty about making their own, nor about posting the STL for anyone else who wants to if they feel like sharing.

I would expand on this to say that they're both useful, but serve slightly different needs.

If you want to make 'functional' stuff, brackets and cup holders and things that are more 'physical' you'll probably have an easier time with an FDM (filament spool) printer. They're cheap and easy to use. No smells, no special process to clean and process stuff.

If you want more fine detail, you want to print 'toys' or things that need to have more visual clarity if they're looked at up close, resin is the way to go. But it's messy and more work to print and process things. There are strong smells and chemicals, you need to wash and cure stuff, it's more involved.

If you're just getting your feet wet and don't want to spend a lot do look up some reviews of the Creality Ender 3 and see what you think of that.

I don't think it's really that bad. Just requires a little care, and the right space to work in.

My Prusa Mk3 is in my office behind me now. I never worry about using it in the house, for obvious reasons. If I was resin printing it would be in the garage. Definitely not as convenient.

But I'm considering adding a resin printer to my tool kit. There are simply some things it's better for. Like any tool you have to use it right to not get hurt. Just means a little respect and proper care is all. No different from owning a table saw or the like. You can get hurt if you're careless.

Prusa is the way, but it's quite a bit pricier, so I don't go straight to recommending it to people who are curious about getting started.

That said, if dropping $1000 isn't a problem for you then just get a Prusa and have the best reliability and experience.

I print most things at 15% infill and have no problems with strength, just as a point of reference. You definitely don't need a brick of solid plastic to have strong parts.

If you don't mind paying the premium Prusa is definitely the way to go. Just shit that works, by people who care and never stop trying to make it work better.

Have you used the Mini? I'm curious about it, but I don't have any experience with it as far what the real tradeoffs are vs the Mk3. $380 is definitely a reasonable price, the Ender was $300 not long ago, and people were putting enough mods to get it tuned in after that to raise the price quite a bit.

Do you have a cannon mod for your ACDC? And if so, are you happy with it?

A custom cannon shell would be a more ambitious project to tackle.

If you're using super glue you really should get a bottle of zip kicker. Will set the bond instantly, no sitting there holding it, gluing your fingers.

This is a 3D printing thread, so I won't drag it too off topic going back to discussing lasers, but FWIW I have a Prusa Mk3, a 600x400mm 50 watt Omtech laser, and a Onefinity CNC (32"x32" work area), and the way the tools overlap and compliment each other is just enormously helpful on a regular basis. The CNC is for larger scale and when I need things like pockets routed in, but the laser alone with a 3D printer opens up a lot more options.

I'm not a fan of the Glowforge, if you have one and like it please don't take it personally, but I'd never recommend anyone buy one. They're too compromised by limitations, and the way you're chained to their cloud ecosystem is a non-starter for me. But that said, nothing else is quite as appliance-like. Still, I wouldn't get a laser unless you're at least slightly comfortable not having your hand held. If you can tinker on an Ender 3 you can figure it out though.

It's also not really cheap, there's no get in for $299 option that's worth it, so if you're just looking for fun and a "tinkering toy" probably not for you. My setup probably closer to $3k after chiller etc.

I added an analog ammeter to mine, not strictly necessary, but lets me monitor the power levels. My machine is a 50 watt, and actually a true 50 watt, depending on where you look they'll try and tell you it's a 55W or 60W, but these are lies based on overdriving the laser. I tend to run it at 70% max usually, and not over 80%.

Never even tried the stock exhaust, ripped it out and replaced with a high quality inline duct fan, thanks weed growhouse industry for making sure there are nice options.

Exhaust runs up and out a window vent. You need to have a setup for handling the smoke.

They'll ship you an aquarium pump to stick in a bucket for cooling. Yeah, trash, don't do that, tossed and hooked up a real chiller. And by "real" I mean an actual chiller, if you buy the cheaper ones they don't cool the water, just circulate. Not worth saving a couple hundred bucks.

I've heard people say you can't use a Glowforge if the ambient temp is too high around the machine, the cooling isn't great. Mine is in my garage, can get hot in SoCal, I don't stress it, chiller handles it.

I use Lightburn for my software.

That's about it. I consider better exhaust and a real chiller must haves vs stock, but some people get away with not doing it.

Yeah, I don't want to clutter this one up with laser talk, just saw them come up a couple pages back and wanted to say that they're really a great add-on to 3D printing if you get more serious about making things.

3D printing is additive, lasers are subtractive, it's a good combination for solving problems. I'm working on a new version of an old mod right now that's completely dependent on both, couldn't do it without one or the other.

I posted a thread on my Metallica hammer update ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aurich-metallica-hammer-version-2 ) and it's a good example of what I was talking about earlier for combining 3D printing and a laser cutter. Couldn't have done it without both tools.

I'll skip the laser details for this thread, but the 3D printed core is PETG. Chose that over PLA because it holds up to heat better, if your game is in a hot garage or something.

I originally designed the model 7 years ago in TinkerCAD. Was able to still open it in the web tool, but it did convert it, something changed over the last 7 years. Scott Danesi printed the original ones for me, I didn't have a printer back then. Was fun to do it myself instead of outsourcing.

I redid everything on the model from scratch, but it was super helpful to have the original as a reference to line things up and replace them one at a time. Instead of a cylinder it's now a decahedron to hold the 10 sides of laser-cut wood.

I doubt this mod is going to sell a lot, it's pricey, so volume not really an issue. But the ability to print and test, and fix, and re-print is just priceless. I printed several versions to get to the final one on this, and I didn't have to wait for Scott to do it and mail it to me and realize what needed to be fixed and rinse and repeat to make it happen.

Same with the laser. A lot of test cuts. Just wouldn't have been possible to do it how I did outsourcing.

Thanks. It's honestly a pretty amazing time for home makers. We can do so much with our own equipment now. The initial investment can be pretty low, or you can drop thousands on stuff like I did, but really the amount I've spent vs what I can do is still peanuts. And it's super cool what a $200 Ender can handle.

The only equipment I really lack is the ability to print on things. But I think a UV printer is probably something I'll have to do with out lol.

Forget the cost, I don't have room for another big piece of tech. I'd like to add a resin printer to the mix, but I don't even know where to squeeze that right now, the garage is kinda maxed out between the arcade and the workshop already.

Your resin star post looks awesome, but just be aware that it's quite possible a ball strike will shatter it. Resin prints aren't nearly as strong as injection molded plastic, just dropping them can break them.

Hopefully they hold up great, just thinking if you ever want to take it to a show or something might be good to have backups on hand.

Nice! I've heard too many stories about a drop breaking prints, glad to hear that.

I love Robert so much, we watch his videos all the time.

I notice very mild smells from PETG sometimes, but mild. PLA is odorless to me. And I'm typing this sitting 4 feet from an unenclosed printer that I run all the time.

I would not run a resin printer inside my house, personally.

You know, the guy who designed that plastic probably has some useful 2D CAD files for all those screw hole locations …

Just chiming in with everyone else to disagree and say my Prusa Mk3 was easy to use day one and has had almost no issues for years.

There is no way to 3D print that Godzilla sign in a way that won't look like garbage. It's just the wrong tech.

For a result that looks like that I'd try CeraMark on a CO2 laser. You spray it on, give it a low power etch, and anywhere the laser hits it will bond with the metal. Then you wash it off and have a pretty permanent contrasting mark on your metal.

FDM printing is just not going to handle it well, there's way too much fine detail, even with a small nozzle it's going to look bad.

True. A bit like doing a resin-based block print, but just skipping the actual print part and leaving it on. Could be interesting. Since the discussion was about a two color print I was really only thinking about FDM.

I use the smooth sheet on my Prusa, and I just wipe it down with isopropyl. Works fine, not as harsh. YMMV, but works for me.

A few things:

1. Illustrator files can work for 3D printing, in a sense. Export them to a format your modeling software (Fusion 360, TinkerCAD etc) can read and extrude them into having dimension. Be aware that Adobe are ... less than brilliant about how they've handled SVG export and it won't be the right size. Always check your dimensions if using an Illustrator SVG before extruding

2. 3D printing is going to be painfully slow compared to laser cutting for this particular application. For a handful maybe that doesn't matter, it's not a great production method in this case though

3. FDM printed cabinets aren't going to look as nice as laser cut ones, speaking as an owner of one of the original mini cabs. I'd consider it a downgrade personally without a lot of sanding and finish work

Laser cutting and 3D printing are both awesome. They compliment each other. Sometimes they can both tackle a problem. Usually one is going to be better than the other for a particular task.

Was documenting my Tron topper build and I have a few random 3D printed parts. Not worth putting in my thread, but figured since I had photos I'd put them here. This is what I love about 3D printing, the feet and PCB tray are really quite simple (and both modeled in TinkerCAD for the record, still not fast enough in Fusion 360 to just reach for it when I'm in "project mode" and moving quickly). But they're exactly what I needed to fit my need.

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The foot for instance has a little post in the middle that a piece of EVA foam locks onto when I'm wrapping it around the sides:

tron-foot (resized).png

There's nothing off the shelf quite like it. And the PCB tray is again a simple part, but it has a perfect cutout in it so the through hole pins from the connector and the capacitor have a place to sit.

I find the majority of my designs and prints are this kind of thing, easy and tiny parts that exactly fit the need I have. It's hard to imagine what I'd do without a 3D printer now, it's just so damn useful.

Everything but the parts I just posted above is laser cut. I won't drag this thread off topic too much, but I will say a laser cutter really compliments a 3D printer. You get subtractive on one end, and additive on the other, and that gives you a lot of power. I have a CNC too, but tbh I've barely used it since my laser and 3D printer solve so many problems already.

For more detailed shots of the Tron plastics I just posted a ton of process and closeup pics to my thread, you can check them there to not derail this one.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tron-interactive-topper-pre-orders-aurich-mod/page/2#post-7289230

Fusion 360 is way more powerful. And does so many more things. That said, you can do a ton with TinkerCAD, it's much less basic than you might think once you learn to add and subtract shapes with it.

Checking the forums for any product will make you think things are always broken. Because nobody goes to a forum to tell everyone how smoothly things are working, they go there for tech support when something is wrong.

So to make this slightly topical the first thing I'd say is stay away from any laser add-on for a 3D printer. If it's strong enough to etch and cut things it's strong enough to f*ck your eyeballs. Only use enclosed lasers with proper shielding. Full stop as far as I'm concerned. Also, fume extraction is a real thing, again, enclosure!

I would personally recommend this as the lowest "worth bothering" machine:

https://omtechlaser.com/collections/machines/products/40w-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-usb-032b-us

With the Lightburn compatible upgrade board. Lightburn is great software, powerful, easy to use, and worth spending the extra to have vs the garbage software you'll be stuck with otherwise. And it's both Mac and PC compatible for whatever your OS of choice is.

So around $640. That's I think the minimum, spending less just buys you frustration.

For deeper conversation maybe we need a new thread, I don't want to talk about non-3D stuff too much and irritate people who are here for that.

Edit:

Who is, really?

I like OmTech, as evidenced by link above, for "Chinese clone lasers sold by a company you can reach on the phone for support". My laser is an OmTech. And I would 100% buy your recs over a Glowforge. Avoid GF if you can imo.

Okay, I'm just gonna answer questions and if anyone is rolling their eyes at laser talk it's not my fault, the person who started this thread is forcing me!

Yes, 40w is great. I use a 50w, and I can cut through ¼" acrylic and quality plywood (crap wood has glue and fillers that will cause struggles). A 40w will probably handle the same fine, with slower speeds.

With lasers you get this funny thing when it comes to power. More power = more cutting. But the higher the power the higher the minimum power you can run it at. So delicate things, and etching, can become trickier with powerful lasers.

For a lot of uses you really don't want to go super high, unless cutting is your main goal. 40w is a little on the low side, but very usable and versatile still.

The main downside to a K40 style laser isn't the power really, it's the bed size. You will want something bigger if you get serious. I have 600x400mm and I wish it was larger sometimes.

The only way to really do a whitewood on a laser realistically would be to do it in layers. Unless you've got a beefy laser cutting through a whole playfield ain't gonna happen, and if it does it will probably char it more than you want. It's just not an ideal tool for that.

Also, a laser is basically a 2D tool. You etch a surface, or you cut all the way through. It doesn't do pocket cuts. Most whitewoods are going to want that for things like inserts and various mechs.

But if you cut a few thinner layers and glued them together later you could work around some of that. I don't think it's a great method.

Also, you'd have to do each cut in parts, with a slide through for your laser. Almost no one had a bed big enough for a whole playfield in one go.

Do it! I'm an experienced amateur, definitely don't know everything about it, would welcome hearing more experienced voices.

Sure, already exists. For example:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1326-ninjacamp-mods/06616-rush-tpu-scoop-protector-full-protection

The main reason I reach for PETG over PLA is when I'm doing something that needs more heat resistance. If you're making something that has some thin parts and might be in a non-climate controlled garage for instance. PLA will warp, trust me ...

I've probably said this before, but I'm going to repeat it anyway:

Please, please, don't buy or operate lasers that don't come with full enclosures, complete with exhaust that you are properly venting.

Machines like the X1 are garbage. They are not remotely safe, or a good idea. That they keep getting more powerful strikes me as criminal.

Spring the extra cash for a proper tool if you want to get into lasers, it's not worth it to cheap out for one of these open frame nonsense boxes. And I think a lot of people in this thread who like making signs and big flat things would have a blast with a laser. Just invest in your health and safety and get something legit.

And everyone in Kentucky is married to their cousin, right? Let's not make this about stupid state stereotypes, this is about taking care of each other.

When you start playing with serious tools you need to take them seriously and respect them. FDM printing is fairly fool proof, so long as your printer doesn't have thermal runaway issues. When you graduate past that there are things you need to be educated about.

If you're resin printing you need to be careful handling uncured resin with your bare skin, you need to wear a respirator if you're sanding. If you're cutting with a laser you need to know what's safe to cut and how to be around it safely.

You are burning through things, even if they're nominally safe for lasers (wood, acrylic, natural leather) you don't want the be breathing in the smoke and fumes, nor coating the ceiling of your house/garage/basement with them. (Also, they can smell terrible.)

A beam that can cut through ⅛" wood will fuck your eye up if it's reflected off something and hits it. And even if you're diligent about wearing the stupid glasses they include, they're often garbage colored plastic that don't actually stop the wavelength. Buy name brand glasses from a reliable source if you want to go that route.

Laser cutting is rad, it's an awesome creative tool, and I think a lot of people in this thread would get a real kick out of it. But I encourage you to do your homework, and don't cheap out overmuch. If you're really on a budget consider a K40. Smaller cutting area, but it's a properly enclosed C02.

Anyways, if you don't want to read my ramblings watch this:

If you are running a laser you really should be watching it the entire time. Never leave it unattended, this is not like 3D printing where you set it up and then walk away.

This is someone I know, he was cutting acrylic, left the machine going in his garage while he went inside and then came back out to this:

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As he said at the time "Thankfully, I was able to extinguish it without damage to property, or person- only pride and wallet." Machine was trashed, lost a couple grand of hardware. It's a common story, you have to treat these machines with respect. I've had very small fires start, but I was always on top of them and they never were a real danger. But it's enough to remind you that attending your machine is Laser 101 for a reason.

Anyways, we started a new thread for this, and it never took off, but I really do think that the people making all these great signs would enjoy the heck out of a laser once they learned to use it. Yeah, you gotta attend it, but I could cut the white outlines for that Funko sign in probably under a minute out of ⅛" acrylic, very easy. Stack a few colors, use acrylic welding cement, and it would be super clean and shiny.

You get what you pay for, these cheap lasers are cheap for a reason. Proper exhaust, proper cooling, and installing an analog ammeter is pretty much standard good practice for the K40’s bigger relatives too. I did all that for my 50W (that OmTech will tell you is a 60w or 55w depending on what you read).

These aren’t as simple and easy to use as 3D printers. But they’re not rocket science either, and if you’re serious about designing and making things they’re powerful tools. And combine great with 3D printers. I posted some examples of projects that use both in the laser thread.

Oh man, if anyone isn’t using it I highly recommend if your printer doesn’t have a native wireless printing capability built in.

I’d hate to go back to physically plugging in a card to print things, it’s so convenient to just send straight from my slicer.

Interesting. I have it set up on my Mk3 with a Pi, I slice on my Mac and send to my printer right from Prusa Slicer. It heats up and prints and that’s that.

No extra steps, no fuss. It makes everything faster and easier for me.

I'm in the same room with my printer, it's easy to monitor it, and not hard to do the SD card shuffle, but Octoprint is just convenient and easy. Setup was simple, I printed a case for the RPi to attach to my Mk3 and flashed the image onto it.

Whatever works for you is cool with me, but I'm surprised anyone would find it cumbersome, because I love it.

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I never print multi-color, I don't switch build plates or filament around, my needs are simple. I can understand if you're constantly changing things up at the printer why it would feel better to simply do all the controls from it too. I'd probably feel the same way in that case.

3D printing for me is mostly structural, practical. I don't use it for display purposes for the most part. So my needs are relatively simple. Heat up, print some PETG or PLA in black, move on.

I love 3D printing for mod stuff, everything I'm currently doing uses it, but not as the main front-facing component. It's the armature for my Metallica hammer, and I print the feet for my Tron topper.

Both those are a marriage of 3D printing and laser cutting, which is my current sweet spot.

You can send direct to Octoprint from Prusa slicer, no need for the Octoprint page:

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It's incredibly rare for me to print anything someone else has designed. It's really useful when I need say a case for a Raspberry Pi and there are a bunch of slick ones already out there to grab, but the real beauty of the printer for me is having custom parts on demand.

I need to spend time on my CAD skills, just one more thing I should be doing instead of reading dumb posts about the Bond 60th game.

Sharing files is hard. I never share my digital files for my art unless it's something designed to be free, because once something is out there you can never really take that back. So I get it.

I try and balance sharing things freely with designing exclusive stuff that I sell.

Same!

Good use of multi-filament:

https://hackaday.com/2023/04/12/dual-extrusion-support-without-pva/

I uploaded a STL for making custom launch buttons: https://www.printables.com/model/622309-pinball-launch-button-graphic-plate

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I did my graphics on the print with a vinyl cutter, and the 'pedestrian' way is to just print a paper insert to go over it. But looking at that keychain I bet it would be cool to use multi material printing to make it all one unit.

Probably wouldn't handle the fine detail of these designs perfectly, but it's a launch button, doesn't really need hyper fine detail anyways.

My file is public domain and free to use however you like if anyone wants to try.

Nice, doing it with the vinyl cutter produces a really pro look. Weeding is a pain in the butt, but it was my own fault for making the Alien button so detailed.

Post a pic if you make something!

Finally and belatedly added a dryer to my Prusa Mk3S. Went with a Sunlu S2. Doesn't take up a lot of space, and with a little printed upgrade (https://www.printables.com/model/426452-filament-outlet-with-ptfe-pneumatic-connection-for/) and some TPFE I've got it pretty integrated.

Working on improving my PETG printing, I know I can do better than what I've been getting.

IMG_3078 (resized).jpg

Being better about constraints and parametricisizing (is that even a word) is something I'm continuing to work on in Fusion 360. The better I get at it the easier my designs become, it's really an incredibly powerful tool.

Nice!

The other thing I would suggest is changing all your fill patterns to concentric, and setting infill to 100%. That will leave you with a much cleaner pattern for the light to pass through and hides some of the filament artifacts, thought it may not matter much if you're printing black in with it and you get perimeters around that.

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Yeah the 100% infil is just to keep it from making a single unfinished layer in the middle, it's not exactly a thick print.

My pleasure, thanks for posting your experiments, fun to see how it worked out.

I wonder what the detail level could be with a .2 nozzle.

I don't know what interview you're referring to, but the one with CNC Kitchen was quite clear that they hear the demand for a larger bed model, and intend to do it. It will not just be an X1 XL, but rather based on their next generation printer tech, and that's why it's not ready yet. So in that sense you're right, but it's not really bad news. Aside from being patient.

The biggest change for me having my X1C isn't the speed, or quality, it's how easy it makes printing ABS.

I really have almost no use for PETG anymore. I'm either printing PLA or ABS. PETG doesn't offer the advantages of ABS, and it's worse to print than PLA, I just haven't found much of a purpose for it.

I did print an Xacto cover in clear PETG the other day because I have a roll, but other than than I dunno.

I can't imagine going back to a non-enclosed printer now.