Hi all. I know this might not exactly be the right thread for seeking advice, but Pinside has been so helpful to me in the past, that I figured I would give it a try.

I am fairly new to 3D printing but have been learning a lot. I have an Ender 3 Pro. The issue is this. My extruder motor clicks / slips on the first few layers of the print (about 4 layers). It doesn't do it for subsequent layers. So, the obvious thought is that the nozzle is too close to the bed. However, if I move it further away, my first layer doesn't stick. I have leveled the bed multiple times and played with the exact distance between the nozzle to the bed. The end result is that if I want that first layer to stick, then my first few layers will have a clicking extruder motor. I print PLA and have tried temperatures ranging from 200-215, all with the same results. I have done multiple searches for what can cause this, but I keep coming back to the distance between the nozzle and the bed, which as I said, I can't go any further out. Plus, I find it strange that this happens on not just layer 1, when the nozzle is really close, but also layers 2-4.

The rest of the print comes out fine, and even the bottom layers print fine. So, maybe I just put up with this since it goes away after the first few layers. But, I keep wondering whether I'm missing something obvious.

Any ideas / help are very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

When you move it away from the bed, it stops clicking, and you're using the same gcode file as when it does click? If so, I'm sorry to say I don't really have recommendations.

Even squashed down far too close to the bed, I've never had filament be blocked enough that it would cause the extruder to slip. Often, the first layer (maybe multiple layers) will have a separate temperature setting, but if the same gcode doesn't click when starting with the bed further away, I don't think that's it. A clogged nozzle won't usually just magically unclog after 4 layers.

The closest issue I've had is that I would get a clogged nozzle and slipping extruder repeatedly at about the same point in prints. That turned out to be a break in the wires leading to the heater core. It would make contact and work until bent just the right way, then cool down enough to clog.

I feel like I had this exact thing happen and I fixed it by tightening something. Sorry I don't remember more details, double check that all the wheels are adjusted properly and everything is snug.

First, let me just say for the record, I HATE the Ender 3. I had one for almost 2 years, and it was a constant battle of fixing crap like this. Once I'd get something working fine, something else would screw up. The Ender can produce really good prints (I even got a few!), but the constant tweaking just drove me absolutely crazy.

That said, lots of people have gotten it to work fine, and I think there's just a bad batch of them every once in a while.

Anyway, it sounds like you've put your homework in and did the levelling (get used to that!) properly.

I had this exact issue, and in separate instances it was the following:

1) first the tension spring on the little arm that grips the filament wasn't *quite* strong enough, so it would slip. I ended up printing a little spacer (basically it's just like a couple of washers, but it had a little lip which made it easier to install). It's on thingiverse

2) later on though, I found that the teeth on the little gear which grips the filament from the other side was filling up with filament dust (because of issue #1), and it just wouldn't grip

so print the spacer or get a stronger spring, and when you go to replace it, use a wire brush to clean up the teeth on the little brass gear thingy. The clicking doesn't really mean anything bad unless you're SO close to the bed that nothing is coming out (that can stress the motor), but it's annoying and eventually leads to issue #2

I "liked" the ender 3 too, but yes it was a tweak machine. If the rollers wore down, you were re-adjusting the tension. The biggest issue I had was the extruder is a piece of crap and constantly slips, so I ended up replacing all mine with dual knurled gears (which helped, but isn't foolproof). The only extruder that I've ever liked is bondtech (or any number of knockoffs). Both tevo and anycubic use a knockoff and it's super good at keeping tension on the filament (and the tension is adjustable which makes for feeding new filament in much easier).

While probably not your issue, you should check this as the first step. Make sure the rollers aren't loose, I think the bottom roller has an offset piece that when you turn it, so it will lower or raise the roller, allowing you to snug it up (but not too tight). Just google it.

I have an aftermarket build plate that does a great job adhering the print hot w/o the usual blue tape or hair spray. Then when cool - a print literally lifts off. I do want to add that build plate developed a warp after a number of years, so I bought a BLTouch for autoleveling (good excuse to buy one). Zero issues since. Amazing how well those two things work together.

Any chance you aren't using a Raft for a base layer? I usually do that out of habit.

I also noticed Cura seems to work better than other Slicers on the Ender. Clueless why, but I can definitely tell a difference when comparing to 'Slicer'.
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Along with checking the leveling in the 4 corners, what's it like in the center? The same gap as the corners? I've heard that noise before, but not since going w/the auto leveling. It measures a 5 x 5 grid across the bed, then adds a changing fudge factor while printing.

I have an E3Pro and get that extruder clicking too occasionally. Like others have said, make sure the brass extruder gear is clean and the spring tension tight, but not too tight. My gear has set screws, so when the gear gets worn from the filament, I just move it up or down slightly.

The other thing to check is the amount of in/out movement you have in your bowden tube right at the extruder fitting. The tube needs to be cut and flared slightly when you push it in the extruder to keep the tube from moving. I think that movement makes it harder for the extruder to push the filament through the tube.

Another thing I've noticed is that it's worse for me when I slice at 0.2mm vs. 0.12 or 0.16mm. I think that's a culmination of a lot of things here, but you are pushing less filament at the finer settings. My prints turn out fine even with the occasional clicking so I haven't messed with it too much.

So what did you get to replace it that "just works"?

Wow! Thanks all for the support. This is why I love Pinside.

Well, to be fair, when it is further away from the bed, it really doesn't stick well, so I stop the print without letting it go on too far, but I don't recall any clicking. I have tried just lifting the nozzle away from the bed and extruding 30mm or so of filament, and there is no clicking.

I was just battling clogged nozzles for a while using Silk PLA filament. I switched back to regular PLA, and that is much better. Not using Silk again any time soon. Regardless, I did a thorough cleaning -- with the needle and several cold pulls -- and I don't think clogging is an issue anymore. Especially since the clicking goes away after a few layers.

Yeah, I've tightened and loosened things, but it is hard to really tell whether I'm making things better or worse. I can keep playing. It is just getting frustrating.

I use a raft for larger prints primarily because the bed is a bit warped and lower in the center. So, I typically have to level with the four corners, move to the center, and then raise everything by turning each wheel just a little bit to raise the middle. I've put a post-it note under the magnetic plate in the center to raise that up a bit, and that has helped.

I am using Cura.

I've gotten some really good prints with the Ender 3, but I can see how it can be annoying as well.

I'm reaching the conclusion that I may just have to live with the clicking on the first few layers. Good to hear that I'm not damaging anything. Every time I google the problem, I get solutions for first layer not sticking or clicking, but not how to find that sweet spot in between.

Above all that was mentioned with drive tension and clogged drive gear, try bumping your first layer hot end temp up 5deg and see if that doesn't help relieve a little of the backpressure. Or perhaps if your slicer supports it, drop your first layer extruded width by 5% or so to see if pushing less plastic helps.

anycubic mega.. only mod I made was the cooling (which I've said many times, ALL chinese printers have sucky cooling). stock bondtech clone extruder, stock glass bed (which means stiff and level), simple 4 spring leveling. I take that back, I did upgrade to harder springs on one of my three because one spring was giving me issues, and $9 for 20 yellow springs is a cheap upgrade (I plan to upgrade the other two once print jobs level off).

Or did you mean which extruder did I buy to replace on the ender? If that's the case, I used this (e-steps need to be adjusted):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

I recently bought an anycubic zero just to play with (and model up better cooling for it). It's basically the Y-axis linear rail of a mega, with ender3 rollers for X (and basic display with scroll wheel like ender), but for $120 shipped it was hard to pass up.
https://www.anycubic.com/products/mega-zero

While I have an Ender 3, I don't want to come across like I'm a cheerleader. I've had an Anet (Pursa clone) for the printer I used to get my 3D feet wet. I realize the Ender is a sub-$200 printer, and don't mind tinkering with it. It sort of comes with the territory and I enjoy that aspect. I'd probably do the same with any printer <$500.

But the BLTouch really made a huge difference. I had a older version of the Ender 3 without the overtemperature protection, so I upgraded the mother board (~$30) to one that supported that safety feature issue and it also had the interface built in for the BLTouch. Like I mentioned, I had a slightly warped build plate - and like you, a dip in the center. With the built in interface, it just gave me an excuse to tinker even more. Just hit the auto level button, watch it probe all over the build plate, store the results.

I know some people in the thread don't use one, and they probably have a lot better printer (and skills) than me. But the auto level was a game changer for me. It just prints every time now w/o build plate adhesion issues. Don't even think about it nowadays. I thought about just getting a new build plate, but then I thought "Maybe the new one would warp someday too." So I got the BLTouch instead.

I do want to add there's still an adhesion issue of the filament is very old, as expected.

Wow, that's a crazy price! Wonder if it uses the Creality motherboard?

Thanks. Sounds like a good device. I just don’t think it would help with the clicking. Even on very small prints where I make sure the center is adequately gapped, I get the clicking for the first few layers. I don’t mind bed leveling. It’s a bit of a pain, but it seems once I get the spot, I’m good for a while. And, as I said, I don’t mind using rafts on larger prints.

They spun their own board, but it's using an off the shelf atmel chip microcontroller

Good thoughts. I’ll look.

Prusa MK3. Just works. Seriously. the print plate is FAAAAAAR better, and other than occasionally having to tweak some slicer settings (like when I switch to PETG), i don't touch it. Have leveled the bed ONE. Time. For real.

The auto-leveling feature (or perhaps lack thereof) is the #1 thing that made me switch. I should have added a BLTouch to my Ender 3 but at that point I was just done. Adding that feature to ANY printer seems to me to be the best possible choice. Had I gotten to it sooner, I probably would have kept my Ender. But the "set and forget" aspect of it is basically priceless.

You know you can store up to 8 calibration profiles for different materials and build plate combinations in the unit, right? Makes switching materials and/or build plates (they now produce 3 different surfaces) just a couple of turns and clicks on the dial. Well worth the time setting it up, if you haven't already.

https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/steel-sheet-profiles_1955

Yeah, could be something else. I just recall after the upgrades, I no longer heard it. I figured I was just 'squishing' the initial layer too much to make up for the build plate problem. But the new mother board has different IC's for the stepper motor, so that adds a another variable on my end.

When you set gap somewhat higher (ignoring it would mess up the print), did you still have the issue? If not, you might want to adjust the first layer values.

I never let it get too far when I see it not sticking, but I don’t believe I hear clicking then.

I was contemplating spending a day of trial and error trying to figure this out with all different settings, but honestly it sounds like a lot of work and frustration for something that may only be a minor annoyance, and I’ve already spent a ton of time chasing this. I was really just worried that I was damaging something, but it doesn’t sound like it.

I was looking into that, which setup did you use (sw, caméra, etc)?

Cheers

Just my gut feel... buy a new build plate that sets on top of your original build plate. Plus level after the build plate is warmed up, not at room temperature.

That's seems like the simplest and cheapest option. It really sounds like you are struggling w/build plate issues more than anything else.

Cant agree more. We fought constantly with our Ender 3. Plus our bed was lower in the center, and leveling was a constant challenge. We added the BL touch and a glass bed, and that finally got us some consistency, until the next thing broke. Early models had some QA issues (like ours), but they got better over time.
I'm running an Ender 5 now and its awesome. Glass Bed, and no BL touch. Its been bullet proof. Leveled the bed once....

As others have said, if you have deep pockets, your really can't go wrong with the Prusa. If you buy the cheaper knock-offs (Ender, Anet, etc...), expect more frustration and a steeper learning curve.
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Love the profiles - still dialing some in though, I’m trying this translucent blue PETG which is pretty picky.

Good reminder about the glass bed - that is a really smart upgrade for the Ender - definitely was a huge step up from my hairspray or glue stick method. Nothing wrong with that - might be worth raising the Z-axis a tiny bit and using glue/spray.

My set up

20210226_160351 (resized).jpg

For as much as I don't want a resin printer...I still want one.

I say the same about filament...lol

Well, I seem to always give myself a trial by fire when I jump into a new hobby. My first pin was an old Bally 6803. Every time I fixed something, something else would break. It was exceedingly frustrating. On the plus side, I learned a ton about how pins work and how to fix them. This 3D printing experience is feeling a bit like deja vu.

Be sure to run an extruder calibration to dial in your e-steps.
Print a calibration cube and go from there.

Granted, your issue sounds like a warped build plate...but there's so many things in the slicer that affect the print quality, especially if someone is just starting out fresh. Overwhelming at first. I wasn't a fan of Cura at originally, but they really have stepped up to the plate the last 2-3 years. Almost to the fault of having too many adjustments. Big fan of Cura now.

To me, part of the fun is just learning, despite being frustrating at times. Back up 10 or 15 years...how many of us thought we'd be chatting (complaining) about a $150 3D printer? Still sort of 'cutting edge' even today.

It just might be the most frustrating hobby next to Pinball! Learning curve massive, and the Ender 3's lack of consistency did not help at all.
Once I got things dialed in, and stop using the Ender 3, it became enjoyable. At least for me, the more expensive filament gave me much more consistent results. I print mostly proto-pasta PLA (or PLA variant), and could not be happier. Expensive, but it has been consistent quality throughout.

I must have lucked out, haven't even leveled my Ender 3's bed in almost a year. Have owned it a few years, only had to replace a fan and a thermistor. Perfect prints 95% of the time. Stock bed, yellow springs, metal extruder, and a few printed mods. I also use whatever filament I found on sale.

To be fair, I had one of the early models. These early models often had beds that were badly warped, and in my case the center was much lower. No amount of bed leveling could completely correct it. Like anything, there have been several releases of the Ender 3, which have gotten much better (better build plates, less flex on the axis', etc...). When it works, its print quality is great. To get consistency, I had to spend $$$ to finally get there: BLTouch, glass bed, yellow springs, board failure and replaced, new upgraded extruder. In my case, it took a long road to get consistency on the 3.

My Ender 5, was easy by contrast. It prints well with just about any brand of filament, but I get the best results with a few premium brands. The 3 now sits unused.

If I had to do it over again, I would have just bought the Prusa.

Rdoyle1978 might have never had an issue with his, but I will warn that there have been times I've wanted to take a hammer to mine. Those times have been far less frequent than my previous Maker Select V2, but the Prusa is still not average Joe ready.

I'm not sure how you would ever get around it, but wires running to the hotend flexing repeatedly are a weak point. You also have to make sure to assemble the hotend just right, or you can get leaks, stringing, and clogs.

It's not a fault of the printer, but get a bad spool of filament, and you're screwed.

. All part of the 3D Printing experience.

Printed this a while back on my Ender 3 with BLTouch. Took 48 hours if I recall. turned out fantastic. Wish I had a larger printer to print a bigger one. Need to paint it or something someday.

gnrprint (resized).jpg

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This should be the key takeaway from anybody following this thread and looking to get their feet wet. I'm nodding in agreement to many of these posts as I went through the same with my Ender 3, and often felt like adjusting it with a bigger hammer. I was finally able to get it dialed in and haven't had to level the bed in ages, so currently the love/hate relationship is trending in the right direction. This technology in the home is pretty amazing when you think about it.

Case in point, I realized I was going to be 4 rollover switch brackets short on my Dracula to Quicksilver conversion, so I grabbed my calipers, fired up Fusion360, and about an hour later I had 4 perfectly functional brackets mounted to the underside of the playfield.

Thats some Sci-Fi stuff right there!

Found it on Thingiverse!

Needs supports of course.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2490404

If you don't happen to have a hammer handy, you can always try to print one. I'd go with 100% infill.

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What's everyone's thoughts of what's the better 3D printer that's works good and easy too use ,thanks

Here come as many response as there are 3D printers.

If you are looking for a very solid overall experience and reliability, then the Prusa MK3S is an excellent choice.

If you are more budget conscious, then I hear great things about the Ender printers (or a Prusa mini if size is not that important with you).

Ok thanks for the reply bud I will check in too them .

Thanks again

Regardless of what printer you choose, try get one that has thermal protection enabled in the software. Without it, if the extruder (and maybe the bed too) thermistor goes bad, it can cause the printer to catch fire.

I think the big question is what do you want to print. I went with resin because I wanted to print detailed mods for pinball. They are big enough now I can print basic things that traditionally you would print in filament, like speaker rings. Sure I have to be remind myself not to drink the resin but I don't have to worry about it burning my house down. You just can't beat the quality you can get from resin printing.

Ok thanks for the info

Thanks something too think about