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(Topic ID: 90822)

3d Printed Bad Cats Linear Target Experiment & Review...


By jgreene

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pindel
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

I recently picked up a nice Williams Bad Cats that was missing the actual target portion of the fish-bonus linear target assembly. While talking with the seller he mentioned that he had thought about making a replacement using 3d printing. After a quick search I was not able to locate a replacement target so I decided to run my own experiment with 3d printed parts using my Bad Cats.

Anyone else out there using 3d printed parts with pictures to share pictures of? It would be great to see what's been done so far. I'm especially interested in parts being used where they must take ball impacts (targets, posts, brackets etc.).

I view 3d printing as a really powerful tool going forward for those of us stuck with broken or missing parts that are unavailable. I'm not a huge 'mod' person, but 3d printing can really open up options for cosmetic mods.

I love the idea of 3d printing parts and decided

#2 6 years ago

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The linear target is similar to a Gottlieb vari-target in that it scores based on the the targets travel when hit. The Williams target uses a very different scoring mechanism with opts vs the Gottlieb. I think this target was used by only once on Bad Cats.

Here's a shot of the linear target on the Fish-Bonus area. The red target is the 3d part installed.

#3 6 years ago

I'm not so sure that is the intended picture...

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from TunaSled:

I'm not so sure that is the intended picture...

oops - fixed it

#5 6 years ago

After some research I settled on using the shape ways 3d printing service. Their interface was pretty simple and they accepted files from AutoDesk's 123d program.

The original target appears to have used a screw or rivet to attach the the shaft. The threads on mine were mushroomed so I ended up designing the new target to fit over the shaft. I figured this would also allow for more material to support the target's face and protect against breakage.

It seemed like shape ways pricing allowed for multiple small parts to made cheaply so I ended up having 4 targets printed for a total cost of something like $25 shipped. Looking over the shape ways site I'd guess a single target could be printed for the $8-10 range. 2 of the target designs are lighter weight (closer to normal target thickness) and 2 are much heavier (these are my backups in case the light targets get smashed).P1050112.jpgScreen Shot 2014-05-13 at 6.38.42 PM.png

#6 6 years ago

The 3d parts were printed with Shapeways 'strong and flexible' plastic w/ a red finish. Surface finish is smoothish with a matte finish. There are no visible printing layers like you commonly see on hobby printers like the Maker Bot. I would not use this particular material for a cosmetic part without planning some additional finishing work. But for a target that will eventually get a decal the material will be fine.

I attached the targets by drilling 1/2" down the center and sliding the plastic over the end of the rod for support. After a couple dozen games the part seems to be holding up well w/no damage so far. I'll report back with more info after more play testing.
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#7 6 years ago

I would take one of those. Mine is spot welded on.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

I would take one of those. Mine is spot welded on.

Ouch, spot welded? We'll see how well these hold up after a few more games.

I think I can post the design on shapeways so that anyone can order them from their catalog. I'll need to look into it.

#9 6 years ago

Excellent work! One thing you might consider is hollowing out the hole for the rod on the model, it will cost less to have it printed, and it will also ensure that people drilling them don't get the hole off center. Alternatively you could put a dimple in the center there, to at least give people a easy way to get in the center.

Any plans to make the model public so others can get it printed?

I've redone a part of the pinbot visor assembly. Swinks has done a lot as well.

http://shpws.me/py5J

-1
#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Excellent work! One thing you might consider is hollowing out the hole for the rod on the model, it will cost less to have it printed, and it will also ensure that people drilling them don't get the hole off center. Alternatively you could put a dimple in the center there, to at least give people a easy way to get in the center.
Any plans to make the model public so others can get it printed?
I've redone a part of the pinbot visor assembly. Swinks has done a lot as well.
http://shpws.me/py5J

I really like the idea to add a dimple or undersized hollow in the center to act as a pilot hole for the drill bit. I thought about making the part hollow to begin with, but I wasn't sure what kind of tolerances the material would have when printed.

I drew these up in 123D using a free license. I assume I can upload them in the public catalog for others to print, I'll need to give it a try.

I saw your pinbot parts in an earlier post. Very cool work.

#11 6 years ago

That's a part of the moving target bank right? How does it hold up to ball strikes?

http://shpws.me/py5J

#12 6 years ago

Jgreene, a satellite dish was also made by a Pinsider for Goldeneye and is available from Shapeways - holds up great, so I doubt you'll have any trouble with the "plunger" target for Bad Catz.......... the 3D printing boon will be a great asset to pinball, as we are seeing already. Matter of fact, I began a thread talking about 3D printing on PinSide a while back - you might want to check it out.

#13 6 years ago

nice work, and agree with wolfmarsh to add a hole just slightly undersize (press fit) or slightly oversize and people can add a dab of silicon to lock it on.

I have a few items on Shapeways now and tend to list both the original version and a upgraded version with some improvements - check out the ball launch arm - original and an upgraded version with increased webbing etc so hopefully people only ever buy one. I also keep the originals at original colour and upgraded as multiple colour option for modding options.

as for making public, there is a tab when you go into the edit details tab and click it then it opens it up and there will be another tab making it available for sale.

#14 6 years ago

Nice job! You are correct, the original part used a screw through the center of the disc that threaded into the shaft of the target. See attached pic...

The cat artwork on the original vari-target is the same as the Cyclone cat on the 3 target bank. I think you can get stickers? If not you can Google Cyclone target for a pic and print & glue them to your target.

BadCatsLinearTarget.jpg

#15 6 years ago

We have been doing a lot of 3D printing. We are printing a lot of ABS and PLA.
We are trying some High-Performance ABS/PA Alloy. Our printer can print Nylon but I have not printed with it yet.
If you have a .STL file you need printed give us a try.
Here is a Vase we printed for Mother’s day.

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#16 6 years ago

Definitely model it with the hole pre-existing. Unless the print is 100% solid, drilling a hole manually isn't the best structural option.

#17 6 years ago

checked out your shapeways models wolfmarsh - nice work, maybe put pinball in the title so it can be found by others in a common search "pinball" so others can benefit from your work.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Definitely model it with the hole pre-existing. Unless the print is 100% solid, drilling a hole manually isn't the best structural option.

I'm going to add a pilot hole to the center. The design relies on a tight fit around the rod so I think drilling is necessary to avoid tolerance issues with the plastic.

I'm not exactly sure what type of print process this shapeways material uses, but I have seen discussion about tolerancing on the heat deposition type processes.

#19 6 years ago

from my experience and checking measurements with shapeways items there is a 0.2mm variance over size (I think from memory) in regards to the tolerance.

Shapeways will print the design solid unless you have it hollowed out but you will then need certain material specific breather / cleanout holes. Likewise with wall thickness it averages out at least 1.2mm wall thickness like for the collar to go around the shaft.

could you possibly extend the front about 1-2mm and then allow a recess for the screw head and maintain the screw on type feature but then maintain the sleeve style (with a slightly larger hole to be a size slide on fit) strengthened with a radius so the target is stronger than original. The down side is the target face sits out 2mm more than standard but if it is a end shot feature it shouldn't matter. Then it is easily removed and you can insure a decal over the screw head so it is a clean look.

#20 6 years ago

Hey, that's a nice machine.

Awesome! That looks like exactly what I was talking about. Great work!

Mb

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Mb51:

Hey, that's a nice machine.
Awesome! That looks like exactly what I was talking about. Great work!
Mb

Thanks man. I'd been playing around with the idea of 3d printed parts before and our conversation was enough to motivate me to try it out. I'm about 20 games in and the target seems to be taking the abuse just fine.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

from my experience and checking measurements with shapeways items there is a 0.2mm variance over size (I think from memory) in regards to the tolerance.
Shapeways will print the design solid unless you have it hollowed out but you will then need certain material specific breather / cleanout holes. Likewise with wall thickness it averages out at least 1.2mm wall thickness like for the collar to go around the shaft.
could you possibly extend the front about 1-2mm and then allow a recess for the screw head and maintain the screw on type feature but then maintain the sleeve style (with a slightly larger hole to be a size slide on fit) strengthened with a radius so the target is stronger than original. The down side is the target face sits out 2mm more than standard but if it is a end shot feature it shouldn't matter. Then it is easily removed and you can insure a decal over the screw head so it is a clean look.

The model had a diameter of 24mm. Final dimension was about 0.75 mm smaller than design. I'm assuming this is due to shrinkage as the material cools. Not sure on the process shapeways uses for nylon printing. I don't have an original target, but it appears to be the same size as a normal standup target which is about 0.030 to 0.040" larger than these are in finished form.

The part is solid for strength since it must hold up to ball impacts. I ended up adding a pilot hole to the back side slightly undersized for the target rod. The end user will need to drill out the hole to the final 3/16".

If anyone's interested in buying a pair of these search for 'Bad Cats' on the shapeways site. I changed settings so that others could order them (I don't have a shop or whatever, so there's no markup).

I'm about 20 games in on my parts without issue, but there's no guarantee that these will hold up or won't cause your game to spontaneously combust. Use at you own risk etc. etc.

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#23 6 years ago

One thing you can do is print a "hole guide" - a small card filled with holes of labeled sizes, like the thing in the hardware store screw section.

Then, when you get it back, you can see what a 2mm specified hole actually prints at, 10mm, corners, etc.

#24 6 years ago

just to help those wanting to design and print at shapeways and want to factor in Shapeways printing tolerances, I have put up a few models in metric for posts and then for holes and I will also do imperial versions tomorrow.

Calibration tool holes
https://www.shapeways.com/model/1976152/shapeways-3d-print-calibration-tool-metric-hole.html?li=search-results&materialId=62

Calibration tool posts
https://www.shapeways.com/model/1976217/shapeways-3d-print-calibration-tool-metric-post.html?li=search-results&materialId=27

9 months later
#25 5 years ago

I have an extra 3d printed Bad cats target left over. If you need a quick turnaround on one PM me. I drilled hole to fit on rod since it's a little small.

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