Just wondering if anyone here converted a 2 inch flipper machine to 3 inch to make a better player. I know its been ridiculed in the past but has anyone did it and kept it that way?
(Topic ID: 159474)
Maple Ridge, BC
Why?
It was made for smaller flippers, it is played with smaller flippers
It should stay with original flippers
Quoted from phil-lee:Just wondering if anyone here converted a 2 inch flipper machine to 3 inch to make a better player. I know its been ridiculed in the past but has anyone did it and kept it that way?
It's your game, do what you want...you'll get no love from the pinside purists.
Quoted from phil-lee:Just wondering if anyone here converted a 2 inch flipper machine to 3 inch to make a better player.
The original flipper size is more challenging than 3" ones, you just need to practice so you can become the "Better Player." 
Not looking for love. I know some have thought about it,just trying to see if anyone had done the conversion and liked it.
Quoted from extraballingtmc:Does it come with rubber bands for the outlanes and a giant post for between the flippers?
Not very positive, not too funny either. Why not express how you really feel? Do you feel better about yourself being a purist? Nothing wrong with that of course,unless it turns you into a smart ass.
I thought it was funny. I did express myself. Yes I do feel better about myself. I was a smart ass long before pinball lol
Tyngsborough, MA
I thought about this for my eager beaver em. A reversible mod to 3" flippers. I think you would need the newer style flipper bushings and Find 3" flippers with the turned down shaft for the set screws. That's it I think.
It is your game. Do what you want. The main thing in modding pins is to try to make the mod easily reversible, without any permanent damage. Save any of the original parts if you have any plans in selling the pin to the next person.
Not an EM but I replaced the three inch flippers with two inch on my Judge Dredd once.
And I also replaced all my three inch flipper EMs with two inch flipper EMs and never looked back...
Hope that helps.
Quoted from phil-lee:Just wondering if anyone here converted a 2 inch flipper machine to 3 inch to make a better player. I know its been ridiculed in the past but has anyone did it and kept it that way?
I did it once just to see what it was like on my Gottlieb Domino. Have to say (and maybe no surprise), it was not very successful. WAY to easy to keep the ball in play, the ball rocketed off the flippers and it just didn't feel right. My hunch is even someone who had never played it with 2" flippers would have felt it seemed odd.
It was super easy to switch back so no harm done. I tried it originally since I'm not a very good player and my first few games were all 3" which is what I remember playing as a teen in the 70's. Like a lot of people on the EM posts, I've grown to really like the 2" games better. I'm still not a very good player but feel the 2" game does reward skill a little more, and I think the older games also encourage 'nudging' which is a lot of fun.
Depends on what game you're converting on. 3" flippers on a 2" flipper game would not be an improvement at all. The ball would almost never drain down the middle. Targets, etc in the middle of the playfield could be damaged easily as some are closer to the flips. It might work on a game like Gtb. Aloha, but, the integrity of the game is lost as there are no side outlanes on this game. It'd be impossible to lose!
I don't think the ball would even fit between the flippers when energized on the game pictured above, (Mibs).
I once bought a WMS Eager Beaver with 3" flippers. Sold it that way while I was waiting for a pair of 2" to arrive in the mail. The buyer came to look at another machine and liked it better and wanted the 3" left on. Talk about long ball times though...
Quoted from AlexF:Say no more.
This Whirl-Wind came with the other two that arrived Friday. lol. 
I appreciate the constructive comments.I see the 3 inch wedge heads and felt it would simply be an improvement Gottlieb would have made at the time had it been the norm,however there is not enough room on an older machine to make it viable. I have nothing against 2 inch and grew up playing those,and a machine like Fireball just wouldn't be right without them.The problem is I like a fast playing game and after rebuilding the flips on Spin a Card including yellow dot coils performance is still lacking, looks like High Tap is the next step. Actually a 2 1/2 inch flipper would be perfect but they don't make such a beast(that I am aware of). There is a lag in flipper performance I attribute to the contrived wire-reach system Gottlieb used to the switches, my next question is, is it difficult to change this to a direct-switching system akin to a Williams?
As far as Purist go I restored wooden runabouts from the 50's to Museum standards and understand the importance of originality.However after performing the work necessary to bring a pin to OEM performance there is no way I would sell it for some piddling amount, it will be kept and played hard. I won't ruin a machine but I will experiment to make improvements in performance.
I'm with Wickerman2...it's your game. Try it out and if you like it...have fun. But he's right...the purist are going to give you no love. Look at the LED's on EMs and you'll see what I mean. It's kind of like cars.....but a bigger engine in a vintage car and some guys go, "sweet" and other guys go, "What the hell!?" Personally, I wouldn't do it. If you want bigger flippers, buy a different game. Certain games were made for smaller flippers, certain games were made for bigger. But I hear ya...I try to help the performance of a game by putting on high tap and raising the back legs for faster play. Just have fun, make a video and put it on youtube...and make sure you turn off the "comments" option!
Quoted from phil-lee:to make a better player.
That's called "leaving it original" 
They're fun once you get good at them!
Quoted from phil-lee:The problem is I like a fast playing game and after rebuilding the flips on Spin a Card including yellow dot coils performance is still lacking, looks like High Tap is the next step.
Every time I read about high tap and yellow dot coils I can't help but think maybe the owner should try a different machine. Or maybe a different brand. I never get why some want a Gottlieb to play like a Williams. I like both styles. That's why I have some of each. But to each his own...
Quoted from Darcy:Is that for real??
It's a real parts game. I'll be glad to pull those bats off and send them to the OP no charge if he'll cover shipping.
Quoted from Darcy:Abra Ca Dabra would be really great with 2 inch flippers.
I know right! Abra-Ca-Dabra with zipper flippers would be amazing!
Quoted from o-din:Every time I read about high tap and yellow dot coils I can't help but think maybe the owner should try a different machine. Or maybe a different brand. I never get why some want a Gottlieb to play like a Williams. I like both styles. That's why I have some of each. But to each his own...
You are the most correct in your assessment, I am asking too much from the machine.All of the Gottliebs I played in the 60's were sleds,I just assumed they hadn't been maintained.Now that I have one with rebuilt flippers,pop bumper units,all new sleeves, new kickout hole tables,everything that moves(and most that doesn't) cleaned and waxed, I expected Spin A Card to play like my Williams. It plays "Polite",just like all those fishing pier and greasy dive Gottliebs played back then. It is pretty though,and much less problematic with the mechanics.I will finish the machine and trade it toward an EM I want. But I have to high tap it first or I will always wonder!
I was going to say sometimes these 2 inch flipper games seem underpowered because it's so hard to get a bead on the ball. You know the ball is bouncing around and your just hanging on for dear life waiting to get a good shot. But the ball rarely lands right where you want it to make solid contact. But then I see Spin-A-Card has return lanes. So never mind...
My HUO Fun Park plays pretty snappy and I'll never get rid of it as it is like brand new. Somebody took the liberty of putting Williams metal flipper bats on my Dodge City and it has more umph now too. The Flipper is an older game and plays slow but it is such a classic and such a great game that it feels right just the way it is.
Even with the Williams some seem snappier than others, but I've never seen one throw the ball around like that Big Daddy I have. One older collector that came over said it is the livliest EM he has ever played. It's not on high tap. It was when I got it and it was simply a monster.
I take it back. That fully rectified DC EM Joker Poker played fast as heck. But then you are looking at the end of the EM era with three inch flippers and not many games came with DC flippers.
Quoted from o-din:I take it back. That fully rectified DC EM Joker Poker played fast as heck. But then you are looking at the end of the EM era with three inch flippers and not many games came with DC flippers.
Yeah, try A nice freshly waxed Aztec EM - the DC power pops are wicked fast.
Quoted from phil-lee:I appreciate the constructive comments.I see the 3 inch wedge heads and felt it would simply be an improvement Gottlieb would have made at the time had it been the norm,however there is not enough room on an older machine to make it viable. I have nothing against 2 inch and grew up playing those,and a machine like Fireball just wouldn't be right without them.The problem is I like a fast playing game and after rebuilding the flips on Spin a Card including yellow dot coils performance is still lacking, looks like High Tap is the next step. Actually a 2 1/2 inch flipper would be perfect but they don't make such a beast(that I am aware of). There is a lag in flipper performance I attribute to the contrived wire-reach system Gottlieb used to the switches, my next question is, is it difficult to change this to a direct-switching system akin to a Williams?
As far as Purist go I restored wooden runabouts from the 50's to Museum standards and understand the importance of originality.However after performing the work necessary to bring a pin to OEM performance there is no way I would sell it for some piddling amount, it will be kept and played hard. I won't ruin a machine but I will experiment to make improvements in performance.
It's oddly funny to me that you want to do this mod to a "Spin A Card". My very first pin ever was the add-a-ball version of that game called "Hearts and Spades". A previous owner, possibly an operator, made just such a "mod". They even moved the location of the bushing holes back a little so that there would be some gap between the flippers. The game was ridiculously easy.
I didn't keep it very long.
There's no good reason why a properly shopped and set up "Spin A Card" shouldn't play fast and snappy. Check your line voltage and also clean and adjust the switches on the tilt and game over relays which are in the circuit which powers the playfield.
Quoted from dasvis:Yeah, try A nice freshly waxed Aztec EM - the DC power pops are wicked fast.
Just like the Grand Prix I had. I think the slings were DC too. But Gottlieb was the only one with DC flippers, but in very few models. At the same time Bally was running 50 volts in their games and that Hokus Pokus was very fast.
I've been thinking about how two different games from the same manufacturer can have noticably different playfield power even though they use the same coils and basic parts even after being rebuilt and you have to look at the power supply and flow. Any resistance in the fuse holders, power relays and switches, and those always hard to clean jones plugs will cause a power loss to different degrees. And there is always the possibility of variations in transformer output as well as line voltage.
Quoted from o-din:My HUO Fun Park plays pretty snappy and I'll never get rid of it as it is like brand new.
Fun Land/Fun Park is such a pretty game, and I still haven't even been able to find one to play even though I've been eyeing the title for at least a year now. There was a pretty nice one at Allentown (Land), just a little out of my range. Also turned off, of course. 
Dibs on owning it in 100 years. 
Quoted from Otaku:Fun Land/Fun Park is such a pretty game
It really is. Kind of an under the radar title from what I've seen.
Quoted from Otaku:Dibs on owning it in 100 years.
You will need to talk to my daughter as I got it for her. We used to go to a lot of amusement parks when she was little and she loved playing and watching those skill games for prizes. She'll only be 118 years old when that time comes.
Quoted from o-din:I've been thinking about how two different games from the same manufacturer can have noticably different playfield power even though they use the same coils and basic parts even after being rebuilt and you have to look at the power supply and flow. Any resistance in the fuse holders, power relays and switches, and those always hard to clean jones plugs will cause a power loss to different degrees. And there is always the possibility of variations in transformer output as well as line voltage.
Line voltage is from a dedicated 115 outlet I paid to supply voltage to a window unit air conditioner.This week end I will adjust flipper EOS switches,bend the flipper actuator rod,wax the flipper button hole,remove a little pressure from the lower flipper return springs, adjust a closer gap for all pop bumpers,and clean the kick out mechanisms one more time.Only then will I high tap,but I have a feeling it is coming.Larger flippers were a thought toward FASTER and HARDER action,not easier.For some reason after a time investment restoring all the important units I like to see the pop bumpers dribble at lightning speed, the kickouts Jam the ball through the linebacker upper play field, the flippers Slam the ball all the way up. I guess I have the notion an EM can play nearly as fast and smooth as a SS machine with proper fine tuning.The problem is I have found that I can fix EM machines well,I understand them. I had an SS and sold it because I was terrified it would wear out or break and the electronics were beyond my skill level.
Soon as I can get time I will submit a brief restoration thread with photos of the Spin A Card,she turned out great!
Quoted from Animal:Im in the camp of do it if you want, its your pin, but keep the 2 inch for future resell.
What pin is this for anyway?
Animal,it was a foolish notion,I have many.The game is Spin A Card.
I bought my Spin-A-Card recently (less than a week ago) and it's not even tuned up or leveled right yet and I think it's great player already Trying to hit all of those targets is so satisfyingly fun. I think it'd be a different experience for the worse with 3 inch flippers.
Quoted from Otaku:I bought my Spin-A-Card recently (less than a week ago) and it's not even tuned up or leveled right yet and I think it's great player already Trying to hit all of those targets is so satisfyingly fun. I think it'd be a different experience for the worse with 3 inch flippers.
You are correct.
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