(Topic ID: 289480)

3 drop target issue

By rvermeire

3 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by boagman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

The upper drop target (of the bank of 3) goes down and stays down after hitting it at eg ball launch (no points counted)
The other 2 go down during the game and count points but stay down as well.
When all 3 are down they don't go up automatically (as was before).
They need a trigger in the game (couldn't detect which trigger(s) yet) or needs ball going home for reset.

What to check?

Connector is zip tied.

#2 3 years ago

Sounds like the switch for that one drop target is stuck. Is it a leaf switch or opto switch? What game/title is it?

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

Sounds like the switch for that one drop target is stuck. Is it a leaf switch or opto switch? What game/title is it?

Manual says it's partnumber C13205-1 Opto board.
Talking about a Williams Whirlwind

#4 3 years ago

It's possible your opto for that target is just dead. Or could be a flaky connector pin

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It's possible your opto for that target is just dead. Or could be a flaky connector pin

If it's dead, Can it still go up when a new ball is shot ? and randomly reset as well depending on the switch that is hit in the game (not able to detect which ones exactly)

#6 3 years ago

If the opto is dead, then your game doesn't know when that target has been hit. This would not impact the game resetting all three targets. Have you tried it in test mode?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSwanson:

If the opto is dead, then your game doesn't know when that target has been hit. This would not impact the game resetting all three targets. Have you tried it in test mode?

Coil test ? nothing happens.... Switches, same story.
Should it go up and down in test mode?
Nothing happens with single drop target neither and that one works ok during a game.

#8 3 years ago

In switch test, does it register any of the drop targets in that bank? Should be switches 27, 28, and 29.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from rvermeire:

Coil test ? nothing happens.... Switches, same story.
Should it go up and down in test mode?
Nothing happens with single drop target neither and that one works ok during a game.

There is no self-trigger for these drop targets, or any of the four drop targets on that game. You must manually trip them to test them.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSwanson:

In switch test, does it register any of the drop targets in that bank? Should be switches 27, 28, and 29.

These switches are not reported as problematic..
only my shooter lane 59 but don't see any issue overthere...

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

There is no self-trigger for these drop targets, or any of the four drop targets on that game. You must manually trip them to test them.

You mean, push them down and they should go up with the coil test if they are ok?

#12 3 years ago

In your first post, you mentioned that the other two drop targets score points as appropriate. If so, they should work in the switch test. When you go into the switch test are you using your finger to knock the drop targets down?

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from rvermeire:

You mean, push them down and they should go up with the coil test if they are ok?

Physically, that means that the drops themselves are okay, but that does *not* mean that the switches associated with the individual drop targets are working correctly. What I was trying to get across was that there is no self-dropping mechanism (such as a magnet pull) for any of the drop targets in this machine.

To see if the drop target switches are working, go into Switch Test and make sure that the drop targets are all in their full upright position. Push each one down with your finger starting with the ones that you *know* are working correctly. When they go down, you should hear the machine make a noise indicating that it knows the drop target has been triggered...the display should say so as well. When you get to the one that's the problem child, see if the noise is made/machine recognizes that it's down. If you don't get the same behavior as the others, it's most likely the switch issue, which could be with the optos, or the opto board, or the connector.

I hope that that is more clear.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

Physically, that means that the drops themselves are okay, but that does *not* mean that the switches associated with the individual drop targets are working correctly. What I was trying to get across was that there is no self-dropping mechanism (such as a magnet pull) for any of the drop targets in this machine.
To see if the drop target switches are working, go into Switch Test and make sure that the drop targets are all in their full upright position. Push each one down with your finger starting with the ones that you *know* are working correctly. When they go down, you should hear the machine make a noise indicating that it knows the drop target has been triggered...the display should say so as well. When you get to the one that's the problem child, see if the noise is made/machine recognizes that it's down. If you don't get the same behavior as the others, it's most likely the switch issue, which could be with the optos, or the opto board, or the connector.
I hope that that is more clear.

Thx for the check list ! Did it and...

The down and middle drop targets are reporting themselves in the switch test mode after I pushed them down, the upper one doesn't appear in the report.
Connector is zip tied so should be ok I guess. Is there a specific 'connector pin' taking care of the upper target I could check as last check before swapping opto?

An opto is cheap €2.95 so can easily swap it (guess is just soldering the 4 pins). Anything I need to be aware off when doing this ?
If this doesn't work I found a new board at reasonable price € 35.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from rvermeire:

Thx for the check list ! Did it and...
The down and middle drop targets are reporting themselves in the switch test mode after I pushed them down, the upper one doesn't appear in the report.
Connector is zip tied so should be ok I guess. Is there a specific 'connector pin' taking care of the upper target I could check as last check before swapping opto?
An opto is cheap €2.95 so can easily swap it (guess is just soldering the 4 pins). Anything I need to be aware off when doing this ?
If this doesn't work I found a new board at reasonable price € 35.

Before you go and do all that, do the simplest thing first: try cleaning both sides of the opto with a q-tip and some cleaner. See if that gets the switch working first. It could be just that simple. Visually inspect it as well. Could some Novus 2 or similar dripped down there or something?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

Before you go and do all that, do the simplest thing first: try cleaning both sides of the opto with a q-tip and some cleaner. See if that gets the switch working first. It could be just that simple. Visually inspect it as well. Could some Novus 2 or similar dripped down there or something?

No luck.... it was a bit dirty but cleaning didn't solve issue
Nothing leaked on it neither.

I also cut the zip around the plug and put a tighter one on it.. no result

#17 3 years ago

Nice, you've isolated the issue to the one switch. I would replace the opto before buying a whole new board. You could check for continuity from that opto to the interconnect board just to make sure there isn't a broken wire somewhere. Changing the opto is pretty straightforward.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSwanson:

Nice, you've isolated the issue to the one switch. I would replace the opto before buying a whole new board. You could check for continuity from that opto to the interconnect board just to make sure there isn't a broken wire somewhere. Changing the opto is pretty straightforward.

"You could check for continuity from that opto to the interconnect board"
How to do this ? I see the opto has 4 solderpoints.

Already ordered a couple of optos, might need them anyway now or later...

thx for all your help guys !

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from rvermeire:

"You could check for continuity from that opto to the interconnect board"
How to do this ? I see the opto has 4 solderpoints.
Already ordered a couple of optos, might need them anyway now or later...
thx for all your help guys !

Did you test the opto manually with your finger or something? Perhaps the drop target isn't breaking the opto?

#20 3 years ago

The switch matrix shows which wires are associated with that switch. From this image you see the wire colors and I believe where they connect on the MPU. However, they go through the interconnect board first. Just to make sure there is no break in the wires under the playfield, you can use a multimeter to check continuity from the opto board to where it connects to the circuit boards in the backbox. If you pull the connector off the opto board and off the interconnect board, just touch one lead of the multimeter to each end of the wire in both connectors to see if current flows or if there is a break. I mention this because just recently I had a switch die and it was from a disconnected wire under the playfield.

Capture (resized).JPGCapture (resized).JPG
#21 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSwanson:

The switch matrix shows which wires are associated with that switch. From this image you see the wire colors and I believe where they connect on the MPU. However, they go through the interconnect board first. Just to make sure there is no break in the wires under the playfield, you can use a multimeter to check continuity from the opto board to where it connects to the circuit boards in the backbox. If you pull the connector off the opto board and off the interconnect board, just touch one lead of the multimeter to each end of the wire in both connectors to see if current flows or if there is a break. I mention this because just recently I had a switch die and it was from a disconnected wire under the playfield.
[quoted image]

Received new optos but.... on top it says D+ and E+. The original ones don't have this info...
They have a number on each pole (left : 5804 Mexico and right : just number 4089) How to match these with D and E ? to avoid missoldering...

#22 3 years ago

Case closed

The D+ side should be in left position similar to number 4089.

Did soldering and testing. Back up and running !!!

#23 3 years ago

Great to hear!

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from rvermeire:

Case closed
The D+ side should be in left position similar to number 4089.
Did soldering and testing. Back up and running !!!

Excellent. Well done. Glad it was just that simple...nothing lasts forever!

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