Between this and some of the mame cabs I see in the game room pics thread it blows my mind the quality of vids some of you guys are willing to put next to your $50,000+ pin collection (with an extra $5,000+ in mods). I don't think there is any doubt from anyone that's into vids or been around vids much these are going to be garbage. You will certainly get what you pay for.

Imagine going into someone's game room and seeing immaculately restored vids and then one of these hunks of junk sitting in the lineup. Think about how absurd it would be for someone to sink money into modifying it and trying to upgrade it. The only difference is in this case the real deal or a good quality item is only a few hundred dollars more, not thousands.

Really should be a pic of a zizzle or something but the point remains the same and I can't figure out how to change pictures on mobile .

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But it isn't identical that is showing my point exactly. You are mislead in the fact that it's the same thing and it's just as good. They aren't. It's a watered down and compromised version... Just like a zizzle. Look at the controls, look at the screen, look at the quality of the materials, look at the emulation, the lag, the size, etc.

I'm not saying you have to have immaculate games and be just as into vids as you are with pins. I'm simply warning you guys not to fool yourselves if you think you are getting an amazing deal that's "just like the real thing". If you want to think of it as a toy that's fine, but in this case the toy in Canada cost like $499. I've bought plenty of real cabs for that and less.

You guys are all free to spend your money how you'd like but as always "you get what you pay for" will ring true.

Of course there is a market for them but this IS a forum for people that are actually passionate and into pinball and arcade machines. Even though there is definitely a market for them, most of us just aren't it. Looking around at any of the arcade forums and you will see the resounding opinion is the same. They are marketing the hell out of it and will probably sell a ton to the general public. Awesome. People will be happy with them for a couple of months until all those crappy Chinese buttons go out of them and they'll be curbside. People that have bought Chinese Micros know this, the general public doesn't. So we call it out as it is.

I bought a set of speakers as a general consumer. They work great for me. An audiophile would probably tear them to pieces because of how terrible they are to them. They are fine for me and I'm happy to have and use them... but bringing them to an audiophile convention and trying to convince everyone they are awesome is going to be a tough gig. A foolish one and I know that. "These $200 walmart speakers are just as good as your setup. I can hear the music just fine."

This IS a forum where there are a lot of knowledge on the subject of arcades so naturally they are going to get torn apart. Expecting anything different is foolish.

Whoops double

This is a bit of a problem. Not only is he correct that there will be more lag than an original system, it's common knowledge and universally accepted. Who here is able to dispute it properly? "You haven't played it yet" isn't nearly a good enough argument. It isn't up to people that think the Earth is a sphere to prove it, it's up to the outliers that think it's flat to prove it. With that said even under the extremely unlikely scenario that they are able to get frame accurate inputs on the emulation side of things, a simple spec sheet of the panel alone (just the panel... one component of many) will show you that yes there is going to irrefutably be lag introduced in the system by the hardware used in these vs an original system. Unless anyone here can show proof or even introduce reasonable doubt that they have devised a system which not only matches the inputs frame accurately, but also reduced it past that point it in order to compensate to perfectly matches the lag introduced by the panel..... Then yes it will introduce lag.

Yes I fully understand people here don't care. The point remains, he is correct. It's almost not even worth debating but if any of you feel up to it then have at it.

Yes, a lot of people are very adaptable to lag within reason (a couple of frames). It affects some people a lot more than others. My guess is the games aren't going to be so far out that the general public has a huge problem with the "lag" feeling or else they simply wouldn't release it because nobody would buy it. I think it's quite likely the case that people familiar with the games or familiar with gaming in general will notice. Lag is especially problematic on fighting games. With those games it doesn't just come down to the fact that you move the joystick and your character moves slightly later, it comes with the problem of inputs not catching on the correct frame and not executing combo moves. To demonstrate how this could be a problem check out the first few seconds of this video:

Now in the video if you notice the characters are essentially moving the same. By that I mean it isn't as is one character moves and then a second later the other moves. The more obvious problem though is that the input isn't be read correctly (specifically 5 seconds in) and is skipping the input on the frame that is needed to properly execute the fireball throw. Hopefully that gives a bit of an insight as to why even if you adapt to moving slightly later because of lag the game won't, and the gameplay will suffer because of it. Does that make sense? It has to do with how inputs are handled in the game not necessarily just the human component of hand eye coordination. We are talking about fractions of a second to allow the input to catch within the frame tolerance. In the video everything is synced up, the players are both moving the same, but one system is able to read the input correctly and execute the command and the one with lag is not. That is the game changer. It isn't that it only affects better players, just that it will stand out a lot more.

Well if you already own the real arcade machines what are you hoping to get out of these versions?

I'm curious about this as well. Not just to hear someone say "it plays fine I don't see any lag" (because it is guaranteed), but for someone to provide some actual frame data so we can determine just how much there is. I haven't seen anything good or bad on it yet. If these are truly running on hardware similar to a Pandora's box then I suspect it's likely not going to be good. I'll reserve judgement for the actual data to roll in though. Data rules over speculation or anticdotal evidence for me any day.

I've tried to explain it earlier in this thread but still evidently people here aren't quite understanding what the problem is with "lag". Again it isn't necessarily just the human element of "I can't stand this fraction of a second delay between moving the joystick one direction and having my character move in that direction" (which is also a problem for some people). It has to do with how the game itself reads the inputs and responds. That's the BIG issue. That time literally is fractions of a second, there are many frames happening every second. There are frame tolerances built in to the game programming which will look for specific inputs on specific frames and then output a move accordingly. If you don't even come close to getting next frame input response you fall victim to the game not picking up the control input on the required frame and can easily miss things like a special move even though the human aspect on the controller was executed perfectly.

I'll put this video up yet again. Watch what happens within the first 5 seconds of the clip when two systems are synced up, one having more lag then the other.

To make it nice and clear the one on the right (groovymame) has more lag than the one of the left (which is the actual PCB). You can see the problem is that even though the characters are moving in sync, the one on the right actually misses the frame input tolerance the game requires and doesn't execute the special move. That's why I say and speculation about lag or anecdotal evidence of "feels fine to me" is pointless. This stuff needs to be measured it's as simple as that. If I had to guess based on everything I've seen, I would be absolutely shocked if the emulation on the 1up cabinets came even close to hitting the same level as groovymame.

Donating them is a great idea! Be sure to check with the place you want to donate to first because some will have a hard policy on not accepting used items for health reasons especially if it's a place for sick kids (mold, etc). Would suck to get a couple quick games in and then your good gesture get declined.

In N/A standard was happ and IL bat joys (supers, comps)... Not really gated in the same way as Japanese controls. The standard for fight sticks and Japanese controls in general on candy cabs etc is square. From what I gather 1up is basically using knock off sanwa jlf sticks?

Now you're talking my language.
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Mame does save high scores but the version they use is very outdated.

That's not true though. You can run the exact resolution, exact horizontal sync frequency, and exact vertical refresh frequency of the original boards on CRTs.

True... But what resolution are vector games . That can't really fit into the conversation at all. Completely different technology. And yes obviously if you decide for some reason you are going to purposefully run a game in the wrong orientation of course it will look weird... Not really sure why anyone would do that and then be surprised it wasn't right though.

I understand that but why would you think otherwise? Why would anyone expect otherwise? That's the same thing luckydogg420 said. Maybe I'm missing something? Of course if you run a vertical game in horizontal your image won't be correct... Is that not blatantly obvious to everyone? Has there been anyone that said otherwise?

And I will say it again you are wrong. There is no arguing against playing vector games etc because that technology isn't the same at all. That we can of course agree on. When it comes to a normal raster CRT based game designed to run at 15k, 24k, 31k etc you can play them exactly without compromise. You can recreate the exact same video output signal from a computer that you can as the original board. The size of the Mon you display it on is completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the signal based on what size it is, 19" 25" etc it's all the exact same...

As an example. I can have two CRT cabinets with trisync monitors, one vertical and one horizontal. And play every single raster based game without compromise and have them display exactly as they would from the original board

I have two LCD cabs side by side one vertical, one horizontal. And I cannot. They simply cannot sync to the original signal forcing conversion and artifacts like screen tearing)

The one exception to this is configuring multiple freesync LCDs... And even at that point unfortunately you are still left with a system which costs substantially more, looks worse and is stuck with other issues that simply can't be overcome due to the nature of LCD technology. Lag, lack of phosphur glow etc.

PS yes I know people in here don't care, just simply correcting something that was said that's just incorrect. I'm fully aware I'm nerd.

No need to be sorry, I'm not arguing for or against the mini 1up arcades. They aren't for nerd like me and I'm ok with that. Again just correcting something said that was wrong. I made my decisions to not compromise a long time ago so I have all types of cab LCD CRT horz vert don't matter I play on device which will best suit each game. I'll give you clue which one I like more .

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Truthfully that's not even all of them . I had them all pulled out to reorganize shelving units.

Chinese vewlix

I'm receiving two more tomorrow from the group buy... Egret 2 and windy 2

But yes, get killed on shipping.

I'm not convinced you have any idea what you're talking about then. What you said is factually untrue, I corrected you. Right now I can go home, pull an arcade board say Street fighter out of my cabinet, put in a computer, and have it run the exact same identical video specs. If what you said were true this wouldn't be possible.

Here's a screenshot of exactly that.

If the argument you are trying to have is what you wrote then you are indeed incorrect.

If you are trying to alter what you said to now be inclusive of every title of every imaginable configuration running on a different configuration perfectly then yes I agree with you that's not possible... But that's not what you stated, nor what I corrected...

As an aside I will say it again screen size has zero bearing on any of this. If you think otherwise then please explain...

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Yes apparently my e2 works, but windy 2 is vert collapse. Bit of a pain but hopefully I can get it sorted. I'll be pulling all the boards for complete overhaul anyway so tracking down the collapse hopefully won't be too bad. Already received partial repair refund based on the non working Mon. It is what it is at this point.

For the last time no it isn't. That is a very simple fact.

Something tells me you think mame is somehow inherently inclusive of everyone running a bunch of configurations of a million different games that weren't designed to operate in one cabinet together. Maybe that's where you have your head stuck up your ass. Mame is perfectly capable of non compromised output on a monitor.

I'm not defending CRTs or LCDs, nor am I going to comment on the mini arcade... I'm correcting an incorrect statement lol. Very simple. Maybe he doesn't know what mame is? He certainly doesn't know that it's capable of and he's misleading people with his ignorance on it. Mame is what creates the signal, it doesn't care what Mon you use. A CRT is simply what completes the uncompromised cycle. Something that many many people do (including myself) which he is saying is impossible.

I'll leave the mame for now out of this thread since I know it's not the threads purpose but anyone can feel free to p.m. me to discuss or more information about the mame stuff. if for some reason I get pulled back into a public discussion I'll just hook up my oscilloscope and side by side the signals from my mame setup with some real boards and show them displaying on the proper CRT Mon (which I've already done in tests) (this is in regard to the whole previous conversation). Pretty simple and hard to refute with no knowledge. mame vs real hardware is a very different and long conversation.

The big difference is when these were announced in Canada they were priced at I think $499. That's where a lot of hate comes from and comparisons to the real deal. When you hit the $500 range you are easily into "real" cab territory.

I have no idea what gave you the impression I need (or have room for) any more games... Or that I'd put them in my living room for some reason lol? I have a game room like a normal nerd. You literally quoted what I said. There's no need to put your own narrative on it by adding things I didn't say. The people in this thread are hilariously salty towards anyone not gushing in their pants over these or offering even the slightest of hints as to why someone would consider something else.

...but I didn't say that at all now did I?

This is exactly what I said "The big difference is when these were announced in Canada they were priced at I think $499. That's where a lot of hate comes from and comparisons to the real deal. When you hit the $500 range you are easily into "real" cab territory."

Not sure where this narrative of single moms, living rooms, and dudes with non working penises is coming from. Are people really this delusional here?

Yes there is going to be audio lag. The ability to reduce audio lag to near PCB levels using portaudio wasn't introduced into mainline mame until 0.182. anything before that which wasn't compiled specifically with audio lag reduction in mind will experience the lag.

Those are amazing. Talk about doing it the right way (for the non "soccer moms" this group is so obsessed with haha). Obviously comes with a price though as well.