(Topic ID: 281397)

25% punitive tariff on pinball machines for EU customers

By master_of_chaos

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by RipleYYY
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    #167 3 years ago
    Quoted from rodclemen:

    I ordered a pinball machine from Norway a few days ago (avengers: IQ) and that got stopped in customs because they want the extra tariff so it doesn't matter when the machines left the US, it applies to all machines regardless.
    just as you thought 2020 couldn't get any worse.

    It's when you import it the tax is due. so the date the item is presented to clearance is the date that counts. This is why when the UK leaves the EU it won't be possible to import games cheaper via that route. Sadly even with Biden coming in this is liable to be around for a long time.

    I've got a JJP GNR and a R&M in Chicago somewhere waiting to be shipped until after the new year when the UK is out of the EU. Hopefully we stick to the 0% tariff otherwise its money back or my dealer swallows it.

    On this though; I have a £10K limit on pinball machines and No F**king Way am I paying £8200 for a Stern Pro. Only a nutcase would. A LE will be $14550 or £12K.

    Cheers,
    Neil.

    #168 3 years ago

    just to check though an import from Norway to Denmark should be:

    25% Import Duty Tariff
    25% Value added tax (sales tax)

    Are you paying 50% more? if not then you got off lightly!

    #170 3 years ago
    Quoted from DerGoetz:

    Your 10k limit will sound perfectly sane to around 0.0002% of the population

    Nobody's perfect.

    #173 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballs:

    Pinball was making a comeback, but that is now over. So sad
    Maybe a new POTUS will be less damaging and costly?
    I received an order from Analogue.co in the US worth $499.00 and paid £202.00 taxes including the extra 25% for the new 'anti-dumping tax' (which it isn't but that's what the government is calling it), equating to 51% total markup over the purchase price. No more orders from the US for me until this blows over. This is, of course, just what our ailing economies and companies need right now. Not. Fucking politicians, eh?
    And the UK government will tow the line with the EU and apply this tariff from 01/01/21, because it wants a trade agreement with the EU. Bigger fish to fry and all that. Meanwhile, and this is all that matters IMO, pinball dies

    I think pinball market share is more than 15% in Europe. I wouldn't count on being aligned to tariffs but its possible.

    note though, in Europe this was not decided by elected people, it was decided by an undemocratic quango called the European commission who can do what they like but are accountable to nobody.

    #174 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sako-TRG:

    What you reckon will be the case for deposits - GnR for example if tariffs remain.
    I’m def not paying additional 25% either... surely that will be deposit back?
    How will the Distro claw that back from JJP?
    At the end of the day from a retail point - I put a deposit on an item for 9.5 GBP LE sale price.
    A shitty situation though.... but here’s hoping all is well for Jan 2021.

    sadly the law both now and in the new year says the distributor either ponies up the game or refunds you in full; shitter for our distributor who is a good guy...

    #178 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    As it stands you can buy used pinball machines in norway and just transport them to sweden. There is no customs on pinball machines.
    If you buy new from norway, i'd guess the same applies, you're not paying 25% vat in both countries.
    So, to my understanding, you can buy nib in norway, but then you have to smuggle it across the border, which is nothing since there are litterally thousands of unguarded crossings.
    If you can unpack it in norway and have a friendly norwegian attest to you, that you've bought a used machine, you dont have to worry about customs at all.

    If you buy something in one country in the EU and take it to another EU country it you should only pay vat were you bought it agreed.

    If you buy something outside the EU then import it into the EU then the process is you are meant to reclaim the VAT in the origin country and then pay VAT as it enters the EU. (Same for most countries). I suspect if you declare a pinball machine properly going from Sweden to Norway you will pay VAT and Duty on it.

    Interesting about the border - same thing the U.K. wants in Ireland but apparently it would be unworkable yet works in hubdreds of locations across the EU!

    #179 3 years ago
    Quoted from Fieldsweeper:

    Cost of free healthcare. Wont debate much, but people think its all green grass on the other side. VAT is a BS tax that I cannot even believe didn't result in an uprising lol.
    and wtf is there a punitive tax for? please post more info on this or the reasoning behind it? In the US this is like the LITERAL reason we fought for taxation without representation haha. /s
    The response from the US retaliating to the EU's initial Boeing BS or what not and now this is like the biggest pissing contest I have ever seen lol.

    You mean like sales tax in the US?

    #240 3 years ago

    this will absolutely be bad news for all pinballers. All the pinball manufacturers still have all the same costs but now I predict at least 15-20% of the market just disappeared. I for one am out buying new games until this is resolved.

    2 weeks later
    #273 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Well, i guess europeans will have to make do with alien and big lebowski.
    I just hope games like gnr will still be available when/if the blockade comes to an end.

    anyone buying alien is mad.

    #276 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    Can I ask why?

    made with stolen money
    super unreliable
    repetitive gameplay
    manufacturer stuffed all their customers first time around for thousands.

    #281 3 years ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Do not expect the EU additional tariff to go away any time soon. In fact, expect more imbedded taxes, whatever they may be named, to appear. With a population that is already conditioned to accept shut downs, and a fragile economy when it is hitting on all cylinders, the future looks as if the EU will have to squeeze every last euro from those that have them.

    what a load of nonsense - the population in EU is demanding lockdown so we don't kill our own people.

    #296 3 years ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Lock down is not the main point of my comment, it is just the factor dujour, in a population that is quite well conditioned to various and sundry taxation. Hardly nonsense. That the US is now becoming quite like the very status, that the Revolutionary War sought to repel, is distressing to many here.

    It's total nonsense and almost gaslighting and the second part is even more nonsense given the hugely wide and different taxation approaches across Europe and the EU, and more so the folly that the US is a low tax economy; Since the banking crisis all of your administrations have fooled you into believing that you are a low tax economy when your debt has more than doubled in the last ten years - who is paying that back? - The US taxpayer! But the biggest tax folly is the medical system and the education system in the US with the biggest waste in healthcare in the world in the US and most folks who go to university with a crippling $250K debt hanging around their neck. Taxation is the same ultimately it's just in the US someone makes a margin out of health and education whereas in Europe we're looking for way to be more efficient and get more value.

    China is laughing because your current administration has conned you all into thinking China is paying tariffs when they've paid almost nothing and the US is paying on both sides: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trade-china-tariffs-explainer/explainer-trumps-china-tariffs-paid-by-u-s-importers-not-by-china-idUKKCN1US003

    Quoted from elcolonel:

    The indicator is, the population on both sides of the Atlantic are letting it happen, without so much as a collective wimper. As far as shut downs go, in the US alone on a yearly basis there are a minimum of 71000 drug overdose related deaths, and 38000 automobile deaths(and 4.4 million injuries that require hospitalization). I would imagine the numbers are around the same, per 100000 people, in most industrialized nations. You cannot shut down life because of death, and what about Sweden, look at their Covid statistics with virtually no shut downs or mandates. I myself prefer a dangerous freedom to a safe captivity.

    Sweden is a disaster they've got one of highest rates and the reality is that they have voluntarily gone into lockdown because their health administrator has a serious confidence problem in their own country, history will tell us more in the coming years. Note here in the UK we've totally mishandled Covid, we have the biggest clown on the planet running our track and trace system that has been a dismal failure and smart people in our parliament not able to participate in the administration because of the stupid farce that our political system caused over mishandling our vote to leave the EU, so politicians have gone tribal and only allow their most trusted yes men in the cabinet.

    on Covid - here in the UK we are in as much mess as the US perhaps even more, my point isn't about who is better my point for clarity is that government is failing us all, all around the western world. I believe in smaller government and the private sector leading on core things but with a set of KPI's that aren't only_ about margin and stock price I also believe governments need stronger smarter people because right now we just don't have that. Instead we have bumbling fools allowing power to be given to other bumbling fools where we have no say in what they do, the UK said, "hell no", to that and we've left the EU because of it, now if Boris puts a tariff on something, I can go hold him account. with the EU, its faceless idiots who have zero_ accountabilty and I have no way to influence the policy of that part of our government. The rest of the EU counties are going to realise this soon enough.

    Regards,
    Neil.

    #300 3 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    The problem with so many countries now is they're run by people who say "government doesn't work" and then go on to prove it by being spectacularly bad at it. Neither of us win having an argument about who's got the bigger clowns.
    Still, I'm at least happy to have discussions with people about tax policies. We don't have to agree, it's a complicated topic with lots of room for nuance.
    It's when you get this reality denying stuff, like people who think covid is a hoax, that I just slap the ignore button. Our ICUs in Los Angeles are at 0% free capacity. The wait time for an ambulance to actually unload you at the hospital is averaging 4 hours. This isn't a policy disagreement, this is real life. Take your anti-mask it's-all-a-hoax nonsense and get out of my life, I'm not trying to even discuss it with people anymore.
    Managing a pandemic is exactly the sort of reason we need government, run by smart people, who believe in science. Global issues can't be handled piecemeal by companies, or cities, or even states. It takes leadership. And we're sorely lacking in that all over right now.

    Again you can use certain situations to prove points. I agree pandemics are the sort of thing government should be able to deal with and with the exception of a few countries nobody had done a great job in this. So if they do a shit job then I want them out of it.

    But global issues can be handed by with the right culture and mindset, that's how we are all here connected to the Internet able to exchange our views.

    #319 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Pure speculation on my part - no idea what the actual realities will be.
    Except, surely this will hurt Stern the most due to the amount of games that get sent to Europe?
    Are people really going to suck up an extra 25% on what is already a super expensive toy??!

    any pinball machine imported to Europe regardless of age, if declared at the border will get a 25% duty applied to it. Now I'm sure you could call some guy, lets call him MeilNcRae and ask him to buy a game on your behalf, he could then meet you in Kent give you the game to put in your van and you could declare it as chopped wood for £200 and probably get away with not paying the duty... I pretty much do this every time I come back from the USA with cases stuffed fool of pinball parts Of course remember, if you can't do the time or pay the fine, don't do the crime

    The good news is that now the UK is out of the EU, we no longer have this ridiculous tariff and my GNR and R&M have set sail for our beautiful island!

    #320 3 years ago
    Quoted from darkpinball:

    Isn't this old news that has been stated since april, just courious about what your criteria and how you draw the line between success and disaster since you apperently know the statistics and whats going on in Sweden?
    Im free as a bird but volunterely choose not to participiate in stupid things in compliance with 75% of the Swedish population just like during the spring and in accordance of the health department recomendations.
    There is a specific thread about this subject in which you will be praised for lack of knowledge and objectivity about Sweden, sorry if Im grumpy but the story about Sweden is quite missleading.

    to be honest I couldn't really care about what's going on in Sweden other than I hope nobody is dying, but Sweden is used, wrongly, to defend bad policy choices with about as much understanding as you rightly call me out for. I think its fair to say that I think only Australia and NZ have got this right and the countries next closest those hit by SARS (mostly Far East), no country in the west has done a good job.

    #325 3 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    Your R&M shipped already? What number you got?

    its been ready for months and ships this week along with about 8 other games for the UK.

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